That's not exactly true in 2006. Vinyl in hip hop right now is more of a symbol than it is a functional tool. The medium of choice for any genre of music right now is mp3. Not sure how you can debate that.
That's not exactly true in 2006. Vinyl in hip hop right now is more of a symbol than it is a functional tool. The medium of choice for any genre of music right now is mp3. Not sure how you can debate that.
Even Laffy Taffy was available in stores on vinyl way before it was on iTunes.
As far as breaking artists, getting things on a mixshow on commercial radio right now most DJs still want the vinyl. Most won't play the low quality MP3's the labels send em.
I dunno, but as a dood who is currently working on artwork and mastering for a successful (ie. we are doing the 23rd record this week) I dont see it going anywhere, so long as you continue to put out a). good shit that people wanna support b). a nice tangible product that people go "oh fuck man, this looks sick". You can still break artists... we generally (on insert small name label) do about 2 releases by people that we know will sell, for every one that we take a chance on. I will always buy independent before major, and will always buy quality over hype. ps; I still buy modern wax, but I think in the DJ world it comes down to not wanting to spend money on every record that comes out, which for me (aside from perfoming and assembling stuff off it as a musician) is where the dildo comes in.
for funk and soul DJs and the whole "convenience" thing, how difficult is it to carry 80 or so 45s with you? I mean really. I can see if you are a DJ that plays nothing but 12"s or LPs, those can get heavy, but really going digital is kinda stupid if you are a soul/funk DJ...shit why not just download a bunch of comps? It can be easy, light and you can just be a secondhand taste DJ...why even bother with looking for new stuff to play? Just sit on your computer and download something someone else took the time to find...that is what is lame about this whole "going digital" thing...a bunch of DJs and "DJs" playing anything they can download...laziness is what digital DJing will bring us.
why even bother with looking for new stuff to play? Just sit on your computer and download something someone else took the time to find...that is what is lame about this whole "going digital" thing...a bunch of DJs and "DJs" playing anything they can download
Aiight, so I'm assuming you will rock a set just as well as any DJ as long as you can download whatever they will play? Also, what's the difference between downloading everything someone plays and buying everything someone plays?
... less mainstream wax = more room for the underground small scale boutique shit to standout in the shops... to me that is a good thing
Let's put it that way :
I have a store where we stock both indies and majors. For a record like Laffy Taffy, Touch It, Go Crazy or Stay Fly we'll get 35 copies at first and probably do a restock of 20 in 2 weeks. For the last 12" by El The Sensei, Dudley Perkins, J-Rocc or Roc Raida we order between 5 and 10 copies, and we probably won't have to restock them before 6 weeks (insert sarcastic comment about indy artists here).
When Sony, Warner and Universal stop pressing 12" and stick to mp3, how long will it take before my business collapse ?
After all hip-hop stores like mine close, what outlet would be left labels like yours ?
why even bother with looking for new stuff to play? Just sit on your computer and download something someone else took the time to find...that is what is lame about this whole "going digital" thing...a bunch of DJs and "DJs" playing anything they can download
Aiight, so I'm assuming you will rock a set just as well as any DJ as long as you can download whatever they will play? Also, what's the difference between downloading everything someone plays and buying everything someone plays?
digging up records(not just buying a record off of ebay) is part of what I am talking about...me and my partners in crime(and folks on this board) have found I am sure dozens and dozens of records that you cant just walk into a store and buy, or even go online and buy whenever you feel like it...this is another myth a lot of people have, not every fucking song in the world has been digitized and uploaded, in order to get some songs, you have to get the vinyl..it doesnt exsist, also if you download a song, that means someone else has it, because they uploaded it...I think it is important if you are a DJ of older musics to have some songs that only you or precious few others have.
... less mainstream wax = more room for the underground small scale boutique shit to standout in the shops... to me that is a good thing
Let's put it that way :
I have a store where we stock both indies and majors. For a record like Laffy Taffy, Touch It, Go Crazy or Stay Fly we'll get 35 copies at first and probably do a restock of 20 in 2 weeks. For the last 12" by El The Sensei, Dudley Perkins, J-Rocc or Roc Raida we order between 5 and 10 copies, and we probably won't have to restock them before 6 weeks (insert sarcastic comment about indy artists here).
When Sony, Warner and Universal stop pressing 12" and stick to mp3, how long will it take before my business collapse ?
After all hip-hop stores like mine close, what outlet would be left labels like yours ?
how is this the death of hip-hop? no offense, but just because your store might have to close-up shop, doesn't mean people are not buying hip-hop. vinyl only caters to djs and collectors. moreover, major label stuff only caters to club djs.
djs are a major part of hip-hop, but nobody has explained why djs need to spin vinyl in order to keep hip-hop alive. the argument made about artists relying on 12" promos is just nonsensical. why can't labels service djs with mp3s? the answer is that they already do.
digging up records(not just buying a record off of ebay) is part of what I am talking about...me and my partners in crime(and folks on this board) have found I am sure dozens and dozens of records that you cant just walk into a store and buy, or even go online and buy whenever you feel like it...
That's great man. What's preventing you from digitizing stuff from your personal collection though? By your rationale, there's something inherently bad with any form of digital DJing even though you could have the exact same songs DJing with records or any digital shit.
also if you download a song, that means someone else has it, because they uploaded it...
Not everyone who shares music is a DJ. I fail to see how this relates to DJing. Or is this more on some secret squirrel shit?
I think it is important if you are a DJ of older musics to have some songs that only you or precious few others have.
I agree. However, it is very possible that great collectros digitize their collections to play out so they don't fuck up their raers.
good point slurg. but really, those big stores aren't the ones ordering our shit anyway... it is mostly boutique shops. But yes, big point taken.
The thing is though, are you going to be able to afford limited press runs when the bigger labels stop pressing vinyl altogether? It may not seem like it, but when mainstream vinyl stops being pressed, costs will definitely trickle down to indepedent artists.
good point slurg. but really, those big stores aren't the ones ordering our shit anyway... it is mostly boutique shops. But yes, big point taken.
The thing is though, are you going to be able to afford limited press runs when the bigger labels stop pressing vinyl altogether? It may not seem like it, but when mainstream vinyl stops being pressed, costs will definitely trickle down to indepedent artists.
that is very true...
as for shops, I stock new hip-hop selectively, as I see fit (read: I like the record and I think others will want it) but if new hip-hop disappeared tomorrow all it would do to me is free up some bin space... shit, even "glory-era" hip-hop doesn't really sell and has been somewhat of problem. My shop is more based around used/rare records of other genres and as long as those continue to sell I'm good.
hey B: Not sure man. A few months back MMS converted thier only 7" press in order to accomodate a larger US dance labels 12" demand. Guess how long it lasted? Less than 4 months. I think the indy market is going to the be the place where pressing plants start getting competitive and giving terms, because unless they want no market whatsoever, they are gonna have to shift in order to supplement thier losses. I think this is across the board. DVDs, same shit, CDs same shit. People are caring less and less about the collectability of digital.
So, maybe I'm being obvious here, but having read this thread it sounds like, if one were to accept the view/outlook of the general concensus here, that Serato is single handedly (although not directly) creating the end of the 12" single.
Pushing the argument a little further, it seems not unreasonable to stretch this line of thought to reissues of many lps (except maybe for raer ones that collectors would purchase) because I think that most of these are purchased by djs as well (I could be wrong). But regardless, if major labels stop producing singles, and production costs rise, will it be feasable for ANY independent record producer to issue records? (And won't this be the only producer of records, because major labels, I can only imagine, would not be producing new lps if they costs were not offset or at least affected by their 12" singles production?) Basically, could one predict that Serato could inadvertently create to end of new records, besides a few scattered ones made by those who could justify the high overhead by either a high selling price or great demand? I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but rather posing it at a possibility based on the other arguments I have read in this thread. I just don't see how this could only affect the singles market.
I just don't see how this could only affect the singles market.
I strongly believe that it will first affect the singles market and then eventually have an impact on everything else. Non-DJ related vinyl will still be pressed but eventually it just won't be worth the cost.
djs are a major part of hip-hop, but nobody has explained why djs need to spin vinyl in order to keep hip-hop alive...
I'm not sure if you are just playing devil's advocate or if you don't understand. I'll try to phrase that as simple as possible :
Stores give money to labels to buy vinyls. DJs give money to store to buy vinyls. Labels need money to survive.
DJs don't buy MP3. If DJs play MP3, stores die. If stores die, labels die.
Now you may want to argue that hip-hop has nothing to do with the music industry, or that DJ's will buy MP3, but I won't follow you on this one.
I think labels make more money from cds than wax, someone who is in the industry want to confirm this?
that is the overstatement of the year. majors don't like to press vinyl because a. almost nobody buys it b. the profit margins are miserable compared to cds
vinyl has been dying for years and it doesn't have anything to do with Serato. djs are a tiny fraction of the people buying music. labels will continue to make money from all sorts of sources beyond cds: licensing for television and movies, ringtones, DVDs, etc.
I think labels make more money from cds than wax, someone who is in the industry want to confirm this?
You're right. But Serato DJs won't buy CDs.
Thankfully DJs have never been primarily responsible for sales, vinyl or no.
CDs will be gone soon too but people will buy downloads. And DJs will too, the record labels will eventually coopt the technology and produce high quality files that cannot be duplicated on p2p. I'm confident that the recording industry will produce the technology to support e-j'ing, it's in their best interest.
As for shops that cater to the local/smaller time DJs (ie the ones that have to buy their wax rather than being serviced) I really don't know what they'll do.
Related question - what happens if two djs are both using Serato? Do you just throw a real 12" on, unplug the USB from the first laptop, and plug it into the second?
Never used it but I'm considering switching so I can stop cue-burning my 45s.
My buddy is resisting because he says it seem to take too long to scan through the list on the screen. He's more of a quick mix kinda dj.
His contention is that it is faster to flip through vinyl because visually it's quicker to ID what you're looking for by the cover or the label color. I know what he's talking about. When you know you're vinyl, you usually don't have to actually look at the text on the label. He's convinced the Serato interface is too slow for someone who's doing quick mixing or picking as you go.
It this contention legitimate?
Are Serato users basically playing more set lists than pick as you go kinda sets? Is the playlist text really small on Serato or can you make it bigger? Is there a way to make the list image based (say label or cover scan).
Or do you premake bins of genres or bpms?
I'm all for Serato and just want to convince him. Lots of questions. Who has answers?
produce high quality files that cannot be duplicated on p2p
not happening
heh.... i would think that if we can design retina scans, hydrogen bombs, and all sorts of incredible technology record labels can defeat or at least successfully coopt p2p...
produce high quality files that cannot be duplicated on p2p
not happening
Absolutely not happening. If a signal can be converted into sound, it can be duplicated. The industry as a whole needs to figure out a new way to "combat" P2P, and devote time and money to keeping abreast of new file-sharing technology. Trivial lawsuits against old men and children is not good PR for a failing industry. I believe the problem lies in the across-the-board acceptance of music as physical product rather than intangible asset. We rely upon a 400 year-old Italian system of accounting and banking in this country, and in most of the world. This system does not account for the intangible asset, the concept that "the idea," as it exists in the human conciousness, has monetary value. I think one could make the argument that a musician's worth to society is not-so-much in the CDs/vinyl/mp3s/ringtones that they release, but in the music that those CDs contain. I'm not trying to romanticize the process, but I think this subject is being looked at from a slightly faulted perspective.
Either that or humans have to start being honest, and although I'm an optimist, I'm not THAT much of an optimist.
Comments
That's not exactly true in 2006. Vinyl in hip hop right now is more of a symbol than it is a functional tool. The medium of choice for any genre of music right now is mp3. Not sure how you can debate that.
Even Laffy Taffy was available in stores on vinyl way before it was on iTunes.
saying. most artists break through as a result of mixtapes now.
Let's put it that way :
I have a store where we stock both indies and majors. For a record like Laffy Taffy, Touch It, Go Crazy or Stay Fly we'll get 35 copies at first and probably do a restock of 20 in 2 weeks. For the last 12" by El The Sensei, Dudley Perkins, J-Rocc or Roc Raida we order between 5 and 10 copies, and we probably won't have to restock them before 6 weeks (insert sarcastic comment about indy artists here).
When Sony, Warner and Universal stop pressing 12" and stick to mp3, how long will it take before my business collapse ?
After all hip-hop stores like mine close, what outlet would be left labels like yours ?
digging up records(not just buying a record off of ebay) is part of what I am talking about...me and my partners in crime(and folks on this board) have found I am sure dozens and dozens of records that you cant just walk into a store and buy, or even go online and buy whenever you feel like it...this is another myth a lot of people have, not every fucking song in the world has been digitized and uploaded, in order to get some songs, you have to get the vinyl..it doesnt exsist, also if you download a song, that means someone else has it, because they uploaded it...I think it is important if you are a DJ of older musics to have some songs that only you or precious few others have.
but really, those big stores aren't the ones ordering our shit anyway... it is mostly boutique shops. But yes, big point taken.
how is this the death of hip-hop? no offense, but just because your store might have to close-up shop, doesn't mean people are not buying hip-hop. vinyl only caters to djs and collectors. moreover, major label stuff only caters to club djs.
djs are a major part of hip-hop, but nobody has explained why djs need to spin vinyl in order to keep hip-hop alive. the argument made about artists relying on 12" promos is just nonsensical. why can't labels service djs with mp3s? the answer is that they already do.
Not everyone who shares music is a DJ. I fail to see how this relates to DJing. Or is this more on some secret squirrel shit?
I agree. However, it is very possible that great collectros digitize their collections to play out so they don't fuck up their raers.
that is very true...
as for shops, I stock new hip-hop selectively, as I see fit (read: I like the record and I think others will want it) but if new hip-hop disappeared tomorrow all it would do to me is free up some bin space... shit, even "glory-era" hip-hop doesn't really sell and has been somewhat of problem. My shop is more based around used/rare records of other genres and as long as those continue to sell I'm good.
Not sure man.
A few months back MMS converted thier only 7" press in order to accomodate a larger US dance labels 12" demand. Guess how long it lasted? Less than 4 months. I think the indy market is going to the be the place where pressing plants start getting competitive and giving terms, because unless they want no market whatsoever, they are gonna have to shift in order to supplement thier losses. I think this is across the board. DVDs, same shit, CDs same shit. People are caring less and less about the collectability of digital.
Pushing the argument a little further, it seems not unreasonable to stretch this line of thought to reissues of many lps (except maybe for raer ones that collectors would purchase) because I think that most of these are purchased by djs as well (I could be wrong). But regardless, if major labels stop producing singles, and production costs rise, will it be feasable for ANY independent record producer to issue records? (And won't this be the only producer of records, because major labels, I can only imagine, would not be producing new lps if they costs were not offset or at least affected by their 12" singles production?) Basically, could one predict that Serato could inadvertently create to end of new records, besides a few scattered ones made by those who could justify the high overhead by either a high selling price or great demand? I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but rather posing it at a possibility based on the other arguments I have read in this thread. I just don't see how this could only affect the singles market.
I'm not sure if you are just playing devil's advocate or if you don't understand. I'll try to phrase that as simple as possible :
Stores give money to labels to buy vinyls.
DJs give money to store to buy vinyls.
Labels need money to survive.
DJs don't buy MP3.
If DJs play MP3, stores die.
If stores die, labels die.
Now you may want to argue that hip-hop has nothing to do with the music industry, or that DJ's will buy MP3, but I won't follow you on this one.
I think labels make more money from cds than wax, someone who is in the industry want to confirm this?
that is the overstatement of the year. majors don't like to press vinyl because
a. almost nobody buys it
b. the profit margins are miserable compared to cds
vinyl has been dying for years and it doesn't have anything to do with Serato. djs are a tiny fraction of the people buying music. labels will continue to make money from all sorts of sources beyond cds: licensing for television and movies, ringtones, DVDs, etc.
untrue.
Thankfully DJs have never been primarily responsible for sales, vinyl or no.
CDs will be gone soon too but people will buy downloads. And DJs will too, the record labels will eventually coopt the technology and produce high quality files that cannot be duplicated on p2p. I'm confident that the recording industry will produce the technology to support e-j'ing, it's in their best interest.
As for shops that cater to the local/smaller time DJs (ie the ones that have to buy their wax rather than being serviced) I really don't know what they'll do.
Never used it but I'm considering switching so I can stop cue-burning my 45s.
My buddy is resisting because he says it seem to take too long to scan through the list on the screen. He's more of a quick mix kinda dj.
His contention is that it is faster to flip through vinyl because visually it's quicker to ID what you're looking for by the cover or the label color. I know what he's talking about. When you know you're vinyl, you usually don't have to actually look at the text on the label. He's convinced the Serato interface is too slow for someone who's doing quick mixing or picking as you go.
It this contention legitimate?
Are Serato users basically playing more set lists than pick as you go kinda sets? Is the playlist text really small on Serato or can you make it bigger? Is there a way to make the list image based (say label or cover scan).
Or do you premake bins of genres or bpms?
I'm all for Serato and just want to convince him. Lots of questions. Who has answers?
thanks.
Understatement?
I was definitely understating on purpose.
heh.... i would think that if we can design retina scans, hydrogen bombs, and all sorts of incredible technology record labels can defeat or at least successfully coopt p2p...
Absolutely not happening. If a signal can be converted into sound, it can be duplicated. The industry as a whole needs to figure out a new way to "combat" P2P, and devote time and money to keeping abreast of new file-sharing technology. Trivial lawsuits against old men and children is not good PR for a failing industry. I believe the problem lies in the across-the-board acceptance of music as physical product rather than intangible asset. We rely upon a 400 year-old Italian system of accounting and banking in this country, and in most of the world. This system does not account for the intangible asset, the concept that "the idea," as it exists in the human conciousness, has monetary value. I think one could make the argument that a musician's worth to society is not-so-much in the CDs/vinyl/mp3s/ringtones that they release, but in the music that those CDs contain. I'm not trying to romanticize the process, but I think this subject is being looked at from a slightly faulted perspective.
Either that or humans have to start being honest, and although I'm an optimist, I'm not THAT much of an optimist.