Acid Pro 4.0 - what's comparable?
G_Balliando
3,916 Posts
Ok, so we had our little Acid Pro discussion before, and I admitted that even though I have been using this shit for 7 years, I know the sound quality sucks balls. I'm thinking of stepping up my game. What other software is comparable as far as features and options, but has better sound quality? I'd prefer to be able to still use Soundforge, cuz that program is solid. Acid just doesn't have the thickness I need in my mixes and tracks. Any opinions welcome.Also, anybody forked with that MPD-16 thing from Akai at all yet? Ever used it with Acid Pro? Does it come with its own software? I was thinking of copping one of those....
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I don't get all this hate on acid. I don't think I could count the number of dudes who have real world releases done at least in part with acid. Acid's sound quality does not suck balls. Acid does not sound. I use an MPD it does not come with software for assigning samples to pads. That needs to be done via something like a VST (which can be run in acid). The pads are much thinner than MPC pads and the feeling is different, but I wouldn't trade my MPD for anything. Check out the M audio Trigger finger though, more sliders, most likely better pads. I still use acid once in a while, but now am pretty submerged in ableton.
why does acid sound bad??? its all 1s and zeros man.. dont expect sound quality improvement with software.
What's Ableton all about? I'll have to checkout that M-Audio joint too, sounds cool. Thanks for any advice.
i dont use loop funktion and i do all chopping in acid so i dont use soundforge either.
ive experienced one problem though and im currious to hear if any other heads using acid pro 4.0 have encountered this also.... what happens is that when im working the margin line (while running the program) at some point in time (lets say) 4.25 min into the session suddenly disapers while still running (and playing), the timer jumps (and stops) and is now showing 3hours something, the mixer output is muted also (no output signal) although still playing audio.....this is not cool but i simply have to touch a wavefile and its back to normal............weird ?????????
if anybody knows anything about this situation i would be very happy to hear whats up!
and i've never had an issue like that. the only issues i've had are latency issues with recording and sound level/quality issues with the output.
well thats not a fair comparison ..
note that those are HARDWARE.. what your recording into soundforge has been processed by those devices.
there's a chance that the headroom in acid is higher than sound forge.. hence you have to turn everything up...
but a single hit won't sound the same once you've mixed it with other instros.
What's Ableton all about?
I guess you're right there - but I've heard computer production come with hard sampled kick drums before. Does everybody have to work as hard as I do to get their shit to bang from software? I go through many different expansion/compression/limiting/maximizing processes to make it bang in the end, and it usually works, i just thought there had to be an easier way. Mind you I am privy to many of the original sampling techniques such as filtering and layering, and I use those as well - fundamentals of making beats. but even with layers and filtered sub tracks over top of layers, it still doesn't bang like I want it to sometimes.
That's definitely true. Acid 4.0 redlines its own mixer about 5 or 6 db (maybe more) quieter than Soundforge. Maybe it's my bootleg copy, maybe it's some setting I haven't found, but it's considerably more quiet, and in my opinion, thinner sounding (not as much body in the mid range EQ, even after I manipulate the EQ, and my ears are decent, i'm not some retard who can't mix a track).
of course it won't, however, knowing the sounds and the mix and knowing what the sounds SHOULD be contributing to the mix allows for me to know what the kick should sound like in acid against the other sounds, and when it doesn't sound like it should, it leaves me wondering what the hell is happening.
step_your_game_up.rar
so true. that's one of the things that makes it so difficult to work in this program and keep the quality clean. The timestretching is not so good most of the time. I generally try not to timestretch anything more than a couple bpm. time compressing is a different story, that can work ok (speeding the sample up without raising the pitch). One shots are great though. just put it where you want it and it's there.
well in my experience yes i found it REALLY hard to make shit sound as good on software.. this is stepping up from 4 track cassette mind you as well...
the key if you ask me is to use as little vst limiting / compression etc as you can... if you can get the mix banging WITHOUT these then believe me you are GOLDEN.
well i definatly wont argue that the eqs probably sound like ass.. thus try and avoid them.
additionally how loud ar you hitting your tracks??
i used to go for LOUDNESS.. ultramaximiser for days and shit.. but i've found now that its better to mix quiet.
namely your master channel should be hitting at around -4dbs... try and get your individual tracks hitting in that range too.. this could clear up some of your issues with muddiness..
Digital is the opposite of analogue in that you do not want to hit it at max... the more headroom you have typically the better.
i've noticed that in ableton for example if i load up my drum module with sounds that have all been eq'd / normalised / compressed and what have you, that while it may sound DOPE you look at the output and its fookin REDLINE all day long.. i dont hear distortion and thus this didnt use to bother me but now i realsie its just not a good idea to hit your shit that hard. It seems weird to be droppng the level down to -20dbs to get some headroom but in the long run i've found taking the levels down like this and re mixing accordingly to yield better results.. esp when exporting and listening back ot the mix.
and if you dont already know remember that the HPF is a tool developed by the gods and should thus be used like the magic wand it is... cut the bass on pretty much everything EXCEPT the kick and the bass...
as far as high pass filtering - yeah I pretty much drop anything under 80 on every channel except for kicks and basslines, sometimes i do it to basslines if their tonal quality is in a higher range. let the kicks do the bumping. i always use the hps on my mixer when recording in vocals as well. i pretty much understand the ideas behind mixing, i just can't get the sound I want. a big part of the problem is that 1) I pretty much use all samples from old records. that shit's really hard to make sound clean or bangin'. 2) I use a lot of layers. the more layers of samples, the more unwanted noise, thus the shittier sounding mix. but i've heard it done well. 3) I'm not working with top of the line equipment or anything. not that you need that to make a mix decent, but you probably to make somethign sound EXACTLY how you want it to. just got find my happy medium i guess. i appreciate the insight though, it's good to know i'm doing what i should be doing the right way.
maybe there's some other software (or even affordable hardware) that I could acquire to help me out more on my final mastering of the tracks. what's up with something like T-racks? Worthwhile or no? I'm still gonna check out this Ableton joint and see what it's about.
g b
it does sound like you know what your doing and thus you'll benefit from a better quality peace of software ( the built in eqs / effects and such in ableton are tres bien)
some of the earliest shit i ever recorded digitally was in acid and yes indeed it sounded like ASSS .. i thought it was just cause we didnt know much but yeah maybe it does just suck.
as for volumes and the club its true you definalty need to bring the level up... after the bounce down.
i usually run a hpf and a lpf at 20 and 20k respectively and normalize the results if its something i need to test in the club.
otherwise i send the master at -4db to the mastering studio and let them bring it up to "industry standard"
whic hthese days usually means so loud it'll blow all but the best needles straight off the wax.
I've used mastering software plug-ins and though they are good at what they do, nothing compares to real mastering, done by a mastering engineer, in a properly tuned mastering studio. I know folks who have gone through this studio process -- I have yet to do it for my own tracks -- and the difference in sound quality is light years ahead of what you might get by playing around with the settings or presets in TRacks, Ozone, or other products. But I own both of those and have done my own "fake" mastering with satisfactory results.
On the original "Acid isn't loud enough" post, the only thing I've noticed is that tracks rendered in Acid definitely have a certain "color" compared to the rendering in other sw programs. I am a devoted Acid and FL user (don't hate on FL, it's an amazing tool) and my FL rendering sounds louder, crisper and just better than Acid, which sometimes sounds flat and dull. Must be the algorithms and what not that are used to sum up the individual tracks into a final mix.
But as far as loudness, I think it really depends on the sound quality and mixing of your source sounds (if you're using samples) and making sure you aren't killing the mix with too many clashing bass parts, mid parts... i.e. give the mix room to "breathe", cut out freqs you don't need (or can't hear - like sub bass stuff), make sure your arrangement is tight, normalize all your samples (which FL does for you, nice) etc etc.
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ok, yes when it comes to the rendering part there can be a slight change in sound, i agree.
Yeah, and so there's no way around rendering, right? You can't open a .acd file in any other software, can you? that would be dope if you could dump the acid.zip files out to something with better rendering capabilities.
this Ableton joint looks hot though, I might have to look further into this one...