If the LA record scene is as bad as yall imply, that's pretty fucking sad. I mean, typical of LA but whats with the "I'd rather sit in my livingroom" deal? There is a huge segment of people who don't like buying on ebay or at record shows... there's no need for a store that caters to them out there? It's not about breakbeats, it's about good friggin music.
actually I really think LA is a very fruitful place for records. I seldom have reason to complain. Most of the bellyaching in the other thread was from not being able to enjoy luxuries like listening stations and friendly service.
Selection is hot & cold but that comes with any place where you need to depend on product walking through the door.
I think it really just comes down to people on here saying the same thing I hear at every record show "It's not as good aas it used to be, things suck now, etc."
Honestly this thread is pathetic. You LA cats have not one good store to speak of yet the excuse for that is "I'd rather sit in my living room on ebay ugh I hate driving I go to Buena Park"???
Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
this thread is a bit whiny. I just think a lot of angelinos are spoiled. But who am I to talk I get a kick out of going to some crusty dingy house and digging through records til my neck can't move. just to walk out with 20-50 interesting pieces
dude dont even bring up the beat market because that place fucking sucked and those two dudes had no clue about records. they knew nothing. kevin is into talking about lamont doziers and his fantasy carrer as a moonlighting record producer and does not know about bobby punetto and all that rad shit. i have 70,000 records in my inventory and would be glad to do it but the truth is i really enjoy working in the nude and do not think this would work out very well.
yes. there's alot of negative normans on this thread. but i would support a store like this and i know at least 30 more people who would as well. peace, stein. . . and btw i do fine in the field/mom n pop/swapmeets/secret spots/connections and ebay.
I am saying though, adam, that most people on this website who like scouring around for deals are not representative of the greater buying public. If I were to rely on soulstrut posters for my business boy would I be fucked.
I think there are a lot of people who would want to go to a good store with knowledge about music and obscure titles and not just BREAKS BREAKS BREAKS all the time but also not like angry beatles buttcrack with .99 modern soul but little else and of course not where the employees are CHERRYPICKING THE GOOD SHIT (tm).
I still don't know how I could "shut down my listening station" I mean logistically do you put up yellow tape or how does that work?
I still don't know how I could "shut down my listening station" I mean logistically do you put up yellow tape or how does that work?
What they do at Arons is they have these triangular signs they put on the turntable that say "Closed". those that know just take off the sign and play records anyways until they are told not to. I always got my big bird in the trunk so I'm never trippin (unless I go to Amoeba cause they got that bullshit "well sell you a portable but you can't use them here" policy)
Out of the 3 cities I've lived in since I've been out of high school, LA is by far the worst for record shopping. The time it takes to drive to all these stores is barely worth the reward. I know some folks swear by out of the way spots and fleas but that's a whole different story.
Out of the 3 cities I've lived in since I've been out of high school, LA is by far the worst for record shopping. The time it takes to drive to all these stores is barely worth the reward. I know some folks swear by out of the way spots and fleas but that's a whole different story.
you are reading it wrong. and i think misunderstanding la. no one is saying the scene is bad. different strokes for different folks.
people in new york (and sf, and tokyo, and london, and everywhere else this model works) have the luxury of choosing not to shop online or at record shows because commutes are easy and the city is dense. so right off the bat, that makes for a larger pool of the kind of customer you need to support a shop of that type and a higher volume of foot traffic and walk ins. traveling in la on the other hand is painfully time consuming and relatively expensive. it reduces foot traffic massivly unless you pay a huge premium in rent and in which case you are going to be in a spot that is primarily frequented by tourists anyway, not necessarily a bad thing, but hard on a business where consistent revenue is very helpful.
secondly, new york, sf, etc. have a significantly higher cost of living so to a degree customers there have been preconditioned into expecting higher prices. la is expensive, but the lines between rich and poor are much blurrier and amorphous than what i've seen in nyc, sf, etc. its hard to charge a retail premium and sell skull snaps for $350-$400 next door to the 99cent store which kind of bleeds into guzzos point about folks in la being after deals. thats where la really shines. la has plenty of good stores. it is a wonderful place to be a record collector because there are endless places to go look for dollar bin deals and hidden gems, but there are no places stocked exclusively with rare, premium (read good) records. it is for legitimate reasons. do you really think no one here has thought of it or tried it? last time it worked, japanese cats and euro dudes came over killing it on the currency exchange, bought everything in sight and went home. those dudes shop on ebay now.
The reason a store works is because it makes itself a destination - it cuts out the need to go elsewhere. NYC benefits from having many stores in a clustered area, but also there is the fight to become a "destination". Each one is worth going to. If people in LA felt that there was ONE place where they consistently wanted to hit, I think it would work. I have never dug in LA. But from what I hear it is a place where if you know someone who'll let you in a back room or first crack at the flea or first look at unpriced shit then you do well. If you hit neighborhood spots consistently you do well. But that is true of any city. in NYC you have your flea rats, your guys that plug neighborhood spots, and so on. What people tell me is that LA lacks a "destination" store though.
Any boutique store is reliant upon tourist traffic. That's just the record game. I don't know if LA has changed as a tourist destination (both American and international) but I know LA has plenty of local producers and collectors who just don't have time to scour the bins and finagle the deals. This is the type of customer one would cater to in this scenario.
The travel thing is tricky though. I have no clue as to what the lay of the land is in LA. But I know that there are good stores in the East Bay AND in SF, so there's gotta be some middle ground.
I have never dug in LA. But from what I hear it is a place where if you know someone who'll let you in a back room or first crack at the flea or first look at unpriced shit then you do well. If you hit neighborhood spots consistently you do well. But that is true of any city. in NYC you have your flea rats, your guys that plug neighborhood spots, and so on. What people tell me is that LA lacks a "destination" store though.
All you said is true except for the backroom thing, very few places will let you do that, however there are methods to get at things that arent on the floor that I don't want to put out for others to steal. JP you ever make it out here I'll put you up on game, I've done it with others and many have have walked away happy (no backroom deal)
I dont like all this negativity. l.a. deserves a friggin specialty shop. I would support it. Tons of other would to, thats a fact! Put it on melrose or something, people walk there all the time.
DOnt even bring up beat market or some other trash, im talking about a specialty store FOR REAL! WIth REAL records. I wish AP would step up. But regardless, young enterprisig soulstrutters need to make real world moves!!!!
The time it takes to drive to all these stores is barely worth the reward.
THAT, pretty much sums it up. Tokyo and NYC, you walk or pay a couple bucks for public transportation and you're good.
I don't go to Record Surplus anymore, cuz there's always like 4 people waiting for the listening stations.
Rhino's is wack for the most part.
Amoeba has some good stuff, but i'm not into searching for hours, just trying to find one good record.
I'm good with one "secret spot", which has gone dry lately. I've come across some solid titles for around 5,6 bucks. That Dadisi record, Grant green (alive), impressions (we're a winner) and bobby bryant (earth dance). nothing crazy, but definitely some pleasant surprises sometimes. And this is exactly the aspect that excites me most about buying at any record store; finding deals.
For real fam...I think the Angelinos in the mix here are offering excellent explanations for why we haven't seen a store like this succeed already. I'm not saying it's impossible but seriously, it's not like folks haven't thought or tried before. The fact that those of us who don't live in LA haven't heard of these stores is pretty much part of the evidence that supports the claim: shit is hard.
Seriously, I really think it all comes down to location and the difficulties in securing some place in LA that MFers are going to want to roll to that 1) won't involve a fucking hour on the freeway, 2) absence of parking. Melrose, where Fat Beats is, is terrible. I HATE going there because it sucks on both points 1) and 2). I liked their old location so much better even if it was some what off the beaten path.
So for those gung ho with the idea, first, name what city you'd put it in.
I think this, above all else, is the main issue. As an out-of-towner, if there was a Groove Merchant LA, I'd go there, for certain (provided that their prices are more sane than Atomic. That place makes TSL look like a thrift store). But this is based on the fact that I'm already rolling into town as a tourist or whatever. If I actually lived there?
Shit, Village Music is less than 30 minutes from where I live now and I've gotten some great records out of there over the years but do I go there that often? Hell no. Shit, I don't even go to Groove Yard that often and I used to hit that spot up on the regular...when I lived 10 minutes away. It really comes down to convenience. The subway system in NYC brings everything that much closer, even if takes longer to get there than 10 minutes, at least you're not driving or searching for parking. Same with S.F. - it's a walking city in many areas, something that L.A. never has, never will be.
I don't think these problems are insurmountable...just challenging.
As for pricing...I think JP is pretty much dead-on here. People complain about the wall prices of certain records but hell, I think it's all relative. Half the stuff I see on the walls in stores like GM and TSL, I know I can find cheaper elsewhere, including eBay. Half the stuff I see on walls is CHEAPER than what you might find on eBay. The trick is finding that sweet spot where you can get away with both (i.e. charging more at times, charging less at others) and in talking with Chris (GM) about this often, it's clearly an art, not a science. I know he doesn't consult eBay or popsike as a price guide but through expeience, his intuitive sense of pricing is pretty good on the whole and rarely extravagant.
Most importantly, the way these stores get by is on bread and butter records - the $10 joints Al Green albums, as JP was talking about, not the $100 Osmiums. THose are great for rep and the occassional big ballers who roll into town, but on a day to day level, what you make the most off of is the records that help you grind by, not the huge scores.
Moral of story: Open the store. I'll go. (So long as you're not coming up supercheap in your trades. If you're not talking at least 70%, we ain't talking).
So for those gung ho with the idea, first, name what city you'd put it in.
i propose said store to be located in LONG BEACH. for several reasons: 1. i live in long beach 2. bagatelle is here which has a STEADY stream of dealers. 3. lease would be cheaper than the city. 4. ample parking. 5. far enough from l.a. that if customers travel from l.a. they would be more likely to spend. 6. long beach art scene is on and poppin' 7. many many up and coming producers in long beach. 8. long beach is very open to transients which means loads of dudes that walk through alley scouring for records and bringing them to the store. 9. massive black population in the 70's which means loads of jazz/soul here. 10. reason no. 1.
Good call but I think to capitalize on walk-in traffic, a location like Venice, Santa Monica, or even Silverlake would be ideal. Long Beach is a little ways in traffic and not too far, but far enough that lazy folks wouldn't want to make the 10 to 405 or 710 drive...well maybe.
I'm curious as to where is 33third.com gonna be located?
People in Southern California are used to driving & used to traffic. Anything you do involves it. If a shop was THAT GOOD though, people would make the trip. Everyone south of Los angeles makes the hour+ (3 in traffic) drive to shitty Aarons etc anyhow. I never did cause there were better places than being around a buncha timmydigalots that would shit their pants over an O'jays record. but, if Anthony Pearson Records inc. had opened up, hell yaeh I woulda drove. you gotta drive a long fucking way to do anything in SoCal! I'm sure LA digging is swell if you are a local & can hit the same shops 2 times a week. but, there have not been shops in LA that are worth the trouble for anyone else. Not in the last several years anyhow.
Is it? I always thought Venice was about 15 minutes further but shit, I haven't lived in LA since '90 and even then, I was a San Gabriel Valley dwella.
Also, as someone who was comimng from a bit aways to LA to shop I was ready to spend money on records. I was not scouring the dollar bins that every local goes through the minute they hit. When I drove an hour and a half to Ameoba you best believe I was buying wall records. Aarons I never liked. there were multiple times I had them pull their overpriced shit off the wall only to check the wax & find it in VG condition. They once sold me a warped record off the wall. badly warped. And, their jazz section used to be WEAK! So, yes, the opprotunity to do well with a specialized store is there, I think. Long Beach would have been ideal when I lived in OC.
The Beat Market is exactly why I don't thnk this will work
You're talking about the Beat Market that was on Cahuenga between Hollywood and Sunset? That spot was cool but the location sucked. People only drive through that part of Cahuenga in the day to avoid Highland and haul ass onto the 101. Parking was also sparse. And next door is that spot that seems to only sell jockstraps .
Arons has been a joke ever since Amoeba opened. I've been about 8 times since then and every time it's like a fuckin library- empty and quiet and all the good stuff is already gone. The best thing in there is that girl you like who works there.
What's y'alls feelings on Uponshop? High but fair prices... nice selection at least for old hip-hop.
I tried Atomic a few times but thought it was overpriced. Regular stuff (war, weather report) going for way too much.
backspin or whatever in burbank has a dope basement visually (perfect for a "real hip-hop" backdrop) but shit for records.
Amoeba's had heat the first 3 weeks it was open. I was there opening day and filmed the madness. The line streched around the block and guess who had been camped out since 4:30 a.m. (or was it 3:30?) to be at the front of the line----> Thes One and a Cut Chemist looking dude!
long live record dealers/storage unit dudes/swaps/and spots outside l.a. proper!
No listening station = no deal. I dont have time to dig through massive amounts of crap just to find some stuff to use. Ill pay wall prices if it is something i can use. Rare or not rare. Doesnt really matter. It should just be run by someone that knows hot records.
What i wouldnt give for a tsl close by. I would be making sample beats all day!
There is a shop out here i've been wanting to buy for some time now....but i dont have the time to run a shop and i wouldn't trust another record dude to do it for me....the owner swears he's not selling but i tend to believe if you waive enough money in someone's face they will bite.....
and for the record.. i'm not convinced a specialty store would work out here.The records would have to be overpriced and Angelinos are cheap bastards..not to mention there are too many knowledgable record folks out here for that
Comments
actually I really think LA is a very fruitful place for records. I seldom have reason to complain. Most of the bellyaching in the other thread was from not being able to enjoy luxuries like listening stations and friendly service.
Selection is hot & cold but that comes with any place where you need to depend on product walking through the door.
I think it really just comes down to people on here saying the same thing I hear at every record show "It's not as good aas it used to be, things suck now, etc."
this thread is a bit whiny. I just think a lot of angelinos are spoiled. But who am I to talk I get a kick out of going to some crusty dingy house and digging through records til my neck can't move. just to walk out with 20-50 interesting pieces
and btw i do fine in the field/mom n pop/swapmeets/secret spots/connections and ebay.
I think there are a lot of people who would want to go to a good store with knowledge about music and obscure titles and not just BREAKS BREAKS BREAKS all the time but also not like angry beatles buttcrack with .99 modern soul but little else and of course not where the employees are CHERRYPICKING THE GOOD SHIT (tm).
I still don't know how I could "shut down my listening station" I mean logistically do you put up yellow tape or how does that work?
What they do at Arons is they have these triangular signs they put on the turntable that say "Closed". those that know just take off the sign and play records anyways until they are told not to. I always got my big bird in the trunk so I'm never trippin (unless I go to Amoeba cause they got that bullshit "well sell you a portable but you can't use them here" policy)
you sleeping on Covina of the West
people in new york (and sf, and tokyo, and london, and everywhere else this model works) have the luxury of choosing not to shop online or at record shows because commutes are easy and the city is dense. so right off the bat, that makes for a larger pool of the kind of customer you need to support a shop of that type and a higher volume of foot traffic and walk ins. traveling in la on the other hand is painfully time consuming and relatively expensive. it reduces foot traffic massivly unless you pay a huge premium in rent and in which case you are going to be in a spot that is primarily frequented by tourists anyway, not necessarily a bad thing, but hard on a business where consistent revenue is very helpful.
secondly, new york, sf, etc. have a significantly higher cost of living so to a degree customers there have been preconditioned into expecting higher prices. la is expensive, but the lines between rich and poor are much blurrier and amorphous than what i've seen in nyc, sf, etc. its hard to charge a retail premium and sell skull snaps for $350-$400 next door to the 99cent store which kind of bleeds into guzzos point about folks in la being after deals. thats where la really shines. la has plenty of good stores. it is a wonderful place to be a record collector because there are endless places to go look for dollar bin deals and hidden gems, but there are no places stocked exclusively with rare, premium (read good) records. it is for legitimate reasons. do you really think no one here has thought of it or tried it? last time it worked, japanese cats and euro dudes came over killing it on the currency exchange, bought everything in sight and went home. those dudes shop on ebay now.
Any boutique store is reliant upon tourist traffic. That's just the record game. I don't know if LA has changed as a tourist destination (both American and international) but I know LA has plenty of local producers and collectors who just don't have time to scour the bins and finagle the deals. This is the type of customer one would cater to in this scenario.
The travel thing is tricky though. I have no clue as to what the lay of the land is in LA. But I know that there are good stores in the East Bay AND in SF, so there's gotta be some middle ground.
Not a lot of jobs offer this sort of freedom.
I've tried it twice, people are just too uptight.
All you said is true except for the backroom thing, very few places will let you do that, however there are methods to get at things that arent on the floor that I don't want to put out for others to steal. JP you ever make it out here I'll put you up on game, I've done it with others and many have have walked away happy (no backroom deal)
DOnt even bring up beat market or some other trash, im talking about a specialty store FOR REAL! WIth REAL records. I wish AP would step up. But regardless, young enterprisig soulstrutters need to make real world moves!!!!
THAT, pretty much sums it up. Tokyo and NYC, you walk or pay a couple bucks for public transportation and you're good.
I don't go to Record Surplus anymore, cuz there's always like 4 people waiting for the listening stations.
Rhino's is wack for the most part.
Amoeba has some good stuff, but i'm not into searching for hours, just trying to find one good record.
I'm good with one "secret spot", which has gone dry lately. I've come across some solid titles for around 5,6 bucks. That Dadisi record, Grant green (alive), impressions (we're a winner) and bobby bryant (earth dance). nothing crazy, but definitely some pleasant surprises sometimes. And this is exactly the aspect that excites me most about buying at any record store; finding deals.
Seriously, I really think it all comes down to location and the difficulties in securing some place in LA that MFers are going to want to roll to that 1) won't involve a fucking hour on the freeway, 2) absence of parking. Melrose, where Fat Beats is, is terrible. I HATE going there because it sucks on both points 1) and 2). I liked their old location so much better even if it was some what off the beaten path.
So for those gung ho with the idea, first, name what city you'd put it in.
I think this, above all else, is the main issue. As an out-of-towner, if there was a Groove Merchant LA, I'd go there, for certain (provided that their prices are more sane than Atomic. That place makes TSL look like a thrift store). But this is based on the fact that I'm already rolling into town as a tourist or whatever. If I actually lived there?
Shit, Village Music is less than 30 minutes from where I live now and I've gotten some great records out of there over the years but do I go there that often? Hell no. Shit, I don't even go to Groove Yard that often and I used to hit that spot up on the regular...when I lived 10 minutes away. It really comes down to convenience. The subway system in NYC brings everything that much closer, even if takes longer to get there than 10 minutes, at least you're not driving or searching for parking. Same with S.F. - it's a walking city in many areas, something that L.A. never has, never will be.
I don't think these problems are insurmountable...just challenging.
As for pricing...I think JP is pretty much dead-on here. People complain about the wall prices of certain records but hell, I think it's all relative. Half the stuff I see on the walls in stores like GM and TSL, I know I can find cheaper elsewhere, including eBay. Half the stuff I see on walls is CHEAPER than what you might find on eBay. The trick is finding that sweet spot where you can get away with both (i.e. charging more at times, charging less at others) and in talking with Chris (GM) about this often, it's clearly an art, not a science. I know he doesn't consult eBay or popsike as a price guide but through expeience, his intuitive sense of pricing is pretty good on the whole and rarely extravagant.
Most importantly, the way these stores get by is on bread and butter records - the $10 joints Al Green albums, as JP was talking about, not the $100 Osmiums. THose are great for rep and the occassional big ballers who roll into town, but on a day to day level, what you make the most off of is the records that help you grind by, not the huge scores.
Moral of story: Open the store. I'll go. (So long as you're not coming up supercheap in your trades. If you're not talking at least 70%, we ain't talking).
1. i live in long beach
2. bagatelle is here which has a STEADY stream of dealers.
3. lease would be cheaper than the city.
4. ample parking.
5. far enough from l.a. that if customers travel from l.a. they would be
more likely to spend.
6. long beach art scene is on and poppin'
7. many many up and coming producers in long beach.
8. long beach is very open to transients which means loads of dudes that walk
through alley scouring for records and bringing them to the store.
9. massive black population in the 70's which means loads of jazz/soul here.
10. reason no. 1.
peace, stein. . .
I'm curious as to where is 33third.com gonna be located?
Then again, Venice (and Long Beach) would mean 10 to the 405 which is like double the pain.
I dunno - maybe Sawtelle? Right off the 10 in Santa Monica? Plus, they got good ramen up thurr. I'm sure Shig knows the MFin' deal.
Dude, these are 10 mins from each other.
But yeah, Sawtelle has been poppin' off in the past 5 years with GR and all those yummy eats, too. Aaaah, LA.
Is it? I always thought Venice was about 15 minutes further but shit, I haven't lived in LA since '90 and even then, I was a San Gabriel Valley dwella.
WESSIIIDE!
You're talking about the Beat Market that was on Cahuenga between Hollywood and
Sunset? That spot was cool but the location sucked. People only drive through that
part of Cahuenga in the day to avoid Highland and haul ass onto the 101. Parking was
also sparse. And next door is that
.
Arons has been a joke ever since Amoeba opened. I've been about 8 times since then
and every time it's like a fuckin library- empty and quiet and all the good stuff is
already gone. The best thing in there is that girl you like who works there.
What's y'alls feelings on Uponshop?
High but fair prices... nice selection at least for old hip-hop.
I tried Atomic a few times but thought it was overpriced. Regular stuff (war,
weather report) going for way too much.
backspin or whatever in burbank has a dope basement visually (perfect for a "real
hip-hop" backdrop) but shit for records.
Amoeba's had heat the first 3 weeks it was open. I was there opening day and filmed
the madness. The line streched around the block and guess who had been camped out
since 4:30 a.m. (or was it 3:30?) to be at the front of the line----> Thes One and a
Cut Chemist looking dude!
long live record dealers/storage unit dudes/swaps/and spots outside l.a. proper!
1. parking.
2. Consistantly good records.
3. LIstening stations.
No listening station = no deal. I dont have time to dig through massive amounts of crap just to find some stuff to use. Ill pay wall prices if it is something i can use. Rare or not rare. Doesnt really matter. It should just be run by someone that knows hot records.
What i wouldnt give for a tsl close by. I would be making sample beats all day!
and for the record.. i'm not convinced a specialty store would work out here.The records would have to be overpriced and Angelinos are cheap bastards..not to mention there are too many knowledgable record folks out here for that