I like Maroon 5. What's that other muthafucka, oh yeah, John Mayer too. Probably because I'm a black hip hop dude, that's probably why though.
have you heard dude sing live?
worse than fuckin Lumidee...for real. Nah. I've heard Sade sing live and it sounded kinda crappy, but I still like her music. I guess it's the same thing with Maroon 5 (or John Mayer, whichever one you're saying is a bad live singer). I think I listen to the lite rock station too much... that's the only reason I even know any of that stuff.
Anyway, back to Kanyeezy... I'm kinda surprised so many heads on SS have so much unbridled dislike for the dude! All things considered, IMO he's about the dopest thing going right now in the mainstream rap world. And not just the beats, the rhymes too. He's an asshole, sure, but we wouldn't like a lot of our favorite artists if we knew what they were really like. Kanye just wears his assholishness like a badge of honor. At least he does try to touch on some serious issues in his music as well as slurping on his own cock... I can't be mad at that. Regardless of all the extra shit, though, I just like the kid's music. To me, he's a very good example of staying true to Hip Hop's roots with the sampling and the overall feel of his shit while still taking it to brand new places- no way in hell does his stuff sound like a rehashing of what people were doing 10-15 years ago, even though it's mostly sample based.
This pic is really just an excuse to show Esther Baxter
he does try to touch as well as slurp his own cock... I can't be mad at that.
Regardless of all the extra shit, though, I just like the kid's music. To me, he's a very good example of staying true to Hip Hop's roots with the sampling and the overall feel of his shit while still taking it to brand new places- no way in hell does his stuff sound like a rehashing of what people were doing 10-15 years ago, even though it's mostly sample based.
yes, i agree with what you're saying here, as hard as i try, i still can't feel all the keyboard beats as much as sampled shit. not to say that they're wack, but there's just more soul, emotion and rawness in sample-based beats. but damn, what kanye (/brion) did combining samples and keyboards on this album is okay maybe not but tell me that shit isn't fresher than the monkey see monkey do shit hip hop folks are on right now.
shit, motherfuckers were saying they were sick of the chipmunk samples, and kanye listened and flipped his style...and STILL came ill.
anyways, i know the hate is coming, so PLEASE, paypal me your kanye west fan club donations. all proceeds will go to GLAAD.
Anyway, back to Kanyeezy... I'm kinda surprised so many heads on SS have so much unbridled dislike for the dude! All things considered, IMO he's about the dopest thing going right now in the mainstream rap world. And not just the beats, the rhymes too. He's an asshole, sure, but we wouldn't like a lot of our favorite artists if we knew what they were really like. Kanye just wears his assholishness like a badge of honor. At least he does try to touch on some serious issues in his music as well as slurping on his own cock... I can't be mad at that. Regardless of all the extra shit, though, I just like the kid's music. To me, he's a very good example of staying true to Hip Hop's roots with the sampling and the overall feel of his shit while still taking it to brand new places- no way in hell does his stuff sound like a rehashing of what people were doing 10-15 years ago, even though it's mostly sample based.
I think he invites a lot of the hate b/c he's unapologetic about his arrogance; thing is though, he backs up his talk - you see the qualifyin' phrase: I can't stand him, but I'm not hatin' on his beats more often than not; well, it's his beatmakin' that lends him the license to act the way he does in public...
I'm w/ you though Phill, although his beats aren't always slammin' each and every time, there are quite a few sure shots in his catalog up to now ('Guess Who's Back?' for instance) - you can quibble over his drums/etc., but damn if Kanye doesn't know a catchy melody and at the end of the day, straight drums on a track like Larry 'Lah' Smith's patterns (vis-a-vis Run-DMC) won't really guarantee $$$ in the bank in 2005 consistently (exceptions now and again such as the Neptunes and 'Grindin'' don't really count 'cause they're one-offs)...
this record is no good. i couldn't imagine any scenario where i would willingly sit through it again.
Andrew - just curious as to what you're not liking about it?
And what were your opinions of College Dropout, just to put this in context?
Oliver
i think it's just too overwhelming. in production and in content he just tries to do too much and loses me. i found myself feeling like "ok... when is he going to start rapping again?" way too much.
i thought college dropout had a few great songs (well "all falls down" is the only one i remember right now, but i'm sure i liked other things about that record) and a few terrible ones, mostly falling victim to overblown self indulgent and cluttered beats - too much singing, too much violin girl, just too many bells and whistles for me to focus on the rapping, which wasn't all that good although he had some nice ideas.
i honestly believe that the best hip hop productions are exercises in minimalism, because they allow they allow a good rapper to take charge of the track. and (perhaps to to compensate for his failures as a rapper?) kanye strives for the opposite. he has some potential as a writer and has improved in the flow department, but you have to listen really hard to notice. he needs to give himself room to breathe. the complexity of his drum programing also comes into play here.
i love just about everything jon brion has done up to this point but his prints are all over this record and it really only detracts from it. really he has no place on a rap record.
i think kanye's process (and andre, mos def, and whatever "post rap" stars) is flawed in assuming that a great hip hop record is one that also subscribes to the traditional goals of musicality. sure, there are overlaps (organized noize comes to mind), but suceeding on one front doesn't automatically go hand and hand with the other.
paul wall over moody loops is not a good look at all. nor are played out curtis and gil scott samples. and that brandy song is terrible.
i'm curious as to what people thing a good choice for the next single is? because i'm not hearing it.
Thanks for that breakdown - I enjoyed hearing your analysis.
What has Brion done? I'm used to hearing some of his solo work, but he's collaborated with Kanye before?
I respectfully would disagree with the idea that the songs on this album are too pretty or dressed up. I agree - some are overdone. That Brandy song is garbage for example - but there's a lot of minimalistic songs on here:
Gold Digger Drive Slow Crack Music Gone
And really, the only songs I thought were overdone including the Brandy joint, "Roses" and "Diamonds."
Next single: probably "Touch the Sky." I'm not a huge fan of the song but it's the closet thing on here to a club joint. "Crack Music" on the B-side or maybe, "Hey Mama."
What has Brion done? I'm used to hearing some of his solo work, but he's collaborated with Kanye before?
never worked with kanye prior afaik.
most notably he's done both fiona albums and a ton of soundtrack work - magnolia, i heart huckabees, eternal sunshine, etc. he also has a solo record that i haven't spent much time with.
Gold Digger Drive Slow Crack Music Gone
"Gold Digger" is just so annoying to me. those synth horns that come in half way through the track.
I appreciate the sentiment of "Crack Music", but i feel like Kanye isn't nearly an articulate enough rapper to tackle the subject. I don't know why game is there. And I'd say that's one of the only beats on the album i like.
Somebody else flipped the "drive slow" moody loop in a nicer manner recently, no? i think it was on one of the handsome boy albums? if that's the case, you know it's bad because that handsome boy shit sucked, but it was still better than this. and like i said the peoples champ really sounds out of place on there.
by the way that nas song sounds like kanye west does mf doom.
i can't imagine how any curtis fan can take "touch the sky" seriously. maybe sampling move on up would've worked twenty years ago, but not in 2005.
I don't remember "gone", i'll listen to that again tomorrow. i'm gone gto bed
1) Agreed about "Crack Music." Dope beat but Kanye isn't Chuck D. 2) I wrote on my blog that "Drive Slow" sounded like a Gorillaz beat. Close enough to Handsome Boy. Not a good track. Especially for Paul Wall. 3) "Kanye does MF Doom" - that's pretty accurate. I still like it though.
What has Brion done? I'm used to hearing some of his solo work, but he's collaborated with Kanye before?
never worked with kanye prior afaik.
most notably he's done both fiona albums and a ton of soundtrack work - magnolia, i heart huckabees, eternal sunshine, etc. he also has a solo record that i haven't spent much time with.
Gold Digger Drive Slow Crack Music Gone
"Gold Digger" is just so annoying to me. those synth horns that come in half way through the track.
I appreciate the sentiment of "Crack Music", but i feel like Kanye isn't nearly an articulate enough rapper to tackle the subject. I don't know why game is there. And I'd say that's one of the only beats on the album i like.
Somebody else flipped the "drive slow" moody loop in a nicer manner recently, no? i think it was on one of the handsome boy albums? if that's the case, you know it's bad because that handsome boy shit sucked, but it was still better than this. and like i said the peoples champ really sounds out of place on there.
by the way that nas song sounds like kanye west does mf doom.
i can't imagine how any curtis fan can take "touch the sky" seriously. maybe sampling move on up would've worked twenty years ago, but not in 2005.
I don't remember "gone", i'll listen to that again tomorrow. i'm gone gto bed
Beats are pretty cool sometimes but I doubt the quality will last long. I think after a FEW listens the quality will be gone. Lyrics mess up his tracks. He should stick to producing.
most notably he's done both fiona albums and a ton of soundtrack work - magnolia, i heart huckabees, eternal sunshine, etc. he also has a solo record that i haven't spent much time with.
Here's a partial Brion CV -
Producer: Aimee Mann, Fiona Apple, Rhett Miller (from the Old 97s), Rufus Wainwright.
Instrumentalist: Jellyfish, Elliott Smith, eels, Macy Gray, the Wallflowers, the Chemical Brothers.
Composer: Hard Eight, Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love.
I believe he's also contributed to both the Onion and LA Weekly as a writer as well...
A lot of people are bagging on Kanye for being arrogant, but, shit, bringing in Jon Brion as another producer seems like a pretty humble move to me.
I mean, think about that-- some people dislike his flow but very few dispute his skills as a producer and still he brought someone else on to improve on what he does best. It's like Eric Clapton bringing in Duane Allman to lay leads on "Layla."
A lot of people are bagging on Kanye for being arrogant, but, shit, bringing in Jon Brion as another producer seems like a pretty humble move to me.
I mean, think about that-- some people dislike his flow but very few dispute his skills as a producer and still he brought someone else on to improve on what he does best. It's like Eric Clapton bringing in Duane Allman to lay leads on "Layla."
Kanye's also been biggin' up Brion's contribution and presence on the album in interviews on radio and in print - he gave Brion co-producer credit for the album as well instead of some DL ghost production not-in-public covert BS...
I knew dude had to have some co-production and songwriters etc on tracks. Some of that shit is just way to dynamic for just some producer dude with an mpc and a drum break cd.
Comments
have you heard dude sing live?
worse than fuckin Lumidee...for real.
true but at least lumidee is slightly tolerable cuz she seems to have droppped a few pounds...
So the optimal time to sell my copy is, what, 2 weeks after the album drops?
have you heard dude sing live?
worse than fuckin Lumidee...for real.
Nah. I've heard Sade sing live and it sounded kinda crappy, but I still like her music. I guess it's the same thing with Maroon 5 (or John Mayer, whichever one you're saying is a bad live singer). I think I listen to the lite rock station too much... that's the only reason I even know any of that stuff.
Anyway, back to Kanyeezy... I'm kinda surprised so many heads on SS have so much unbridled dislike for the dude! All things considered, IMO he's about the dopest thing going right now in the mainstream rap world. And not just the beats, the rhymes too. He's an asshole, sure, but we wouldn't like a lot of our favorite artists if we knew what they were really like. Kanye just wears his assholishness like a badge of honor. At least he does try to touch on some serious issues in his music as well as slurping on his own cock... I can't be mad at that. Regardless of all the extra shit, though, I just like the kid's music. To me, he's a very good example of staying true to Hip Hop's roots with the sampling and the overall feel of his shit while still taking it to brand new places- no way in hell does his stuff sound like a rehashing of what people were doing 10-15 years ago, even though it's mostly sample based.
This pic is really just an excuse to show Esther Baxter
whoa. funkyexample looks like a asian dude in that picture
yes, i agree with what you're saying here, as hard as i try, i still can't feel all the keyboard beats as much as sampled shit. not to say that they're wack, but there's just more soul, emotion and rawness in sample-based beats. but damn, what kanye (/brion) did combining samples and keyboards on this album is
shit, motherfuckers were saying they were sick of the chipmunk samples, and kanye listened and flipped his style...and STILL came ill.
anyways, i know the hate is coming, so PLEASE, paypal me your kanye west fan club donations. all proceeds will go to GLAAD.
I think he invites a lot of the hate b/c he's unapologetic about his arrogance; thing is though, he backs up his talk - you see the qualifyin' phrase: I can't stand him, but I'm not hatin' on his beats more often than not; well, it's his beatmakin' that lends him the license to act the way he does in public...
I'm w/ you though Phill, although his beats aren't always slammin' each and every time, there are quite a few sure shots in his catalog up to now ('Guess Who's Back?' for instance) - you can quibble over his drums/etc., but damn if Kanye doesn't know a catchy melody and at the end of the day, straight drums on a track like Larry 'Lah' Smith's patterns (vis-a-vis Run-DMC) won't really guarantee $$$ in the bank in 2005 consistently (exceptions now and again such as the Neptunes and 'Grindin'' don't really count 'cause they're one-offs)...
I actually got dissed by Iron Monkey (and others) when I mentioned John Mayer was aiiiiiiiiiight with me.
jack johnson is the dopeness.
Damn, good call. The drums sounded familiar on this too but I didn't make the connection.
when i mentioned i liked them i remember you being the only person that actually co-signed for me....great minds think alike
ps
"gone" is hot as all hell.
THE-BREAKS
up in here right now.
Just sayin' fellas. Chill the hate. Embrace the breaks.
i think it's just too overwhelming. in production and in content he just tries to do too much and loses me. i found myself feeling like "ok... when is he going to start rapping again?" way too much.
i thought college dropout had a few great songs (well "all falls down" is the only one i remember right now, but i'm sure i liked other things about that record) and a few terrible ones, mostly falling victim to overblown self indulgent and cluttered beats - too much singing, too much violin girl, just too many bells and whistles for me to focus on the rapping, which wasn't all that good although he had some nice ideas.
i honestly believe that the best hip hop productions are exercises in minimalism, because they allow they allow a good rapper to take charge of the track. and (perhaps to to compensate for his failures as a rapper?) kanye strives for the opposite. he has some potential as a writer and has improved in the flow department, but you have to listen really hard to notice. he needs to give himself room to breathe. the complexity of his drum programing also comes into play here.
i love just about everything jon brion has done up to this point but his prints are all over this record and it really only detracts from it. really he has no place on a rap record.
i think kanye's process (and andre, mos def, and whatever "post rap" stars) is flawed in assuming that a great hip hop record is one that also subscribes to the traditional goals of musicality. sure, there are overlaps (organized noize comes to mind), but suceeding on one front doesn't automatically go hand and hand with the other.
paul wall over moody loops is not a good look at all. nor are played out curtis and gil scott samples. and that brandy song is terrible.
i'm curious as to what people thing a good choice for the next single is? because i'm not hearing it.
Thanks for that breakdown - I enjoyed hearing your analysis.
What has Brion done? I'm used to hearing some of his solo work, but he's collaborated with Kanye before?
I respectfully would disagree with the idea that the songs on this album are too pretty or dressed up. I agree - some are overdone. That Brandy song is garbage for example - but there's a lot of minimalistic songs on here:
Gold Digger
Drive Slow
Crack Music
Gone
And really, the only songs I thought were overdone including the Brandy joint, "Roses" and "Diamonds."
Next single: probably "Touch the Sky." I'm not a huge fan of the song but it's the closet thing on here to a club joint. "Crack Music" on the B-side or maybe, "Hey Mama."
never worked with kanye prior afaik.
most notably he's done both fiona albums and a ton of soundtrack work - magnolia, i heart huckabees, eternal sunshine, etc. he also has a solo record that i haven't spent much time with.
"Gold Digger" is just so annoying to me. those synth horns that come in half way through the track.
I appreciate the sentiment of "Crack Music", but i feel like Kanye isn't nearly an articulate enough rapper to tackle the subject. I don't know why game is there. And I'd say that's one of the only beats on the album i like.
Somebody else flipped the "drive slow" moody loop in a nicer manner recently, no? i think it was on one of the handsome boy albums? if that's the case, you know it's bad because that handsome boy shit sucked, but it was still better than this. and like i said the peoples champ really sounds out of place on there.
by the way that nas song sounds like kanye west does mf doom.
i can't imagine how any curtis fan can take "touch the sky" seriously. maybe sampling move on up would've worked twenty years ago, but not in 2005.
I don't remember "gone", i'll listen to that again tomorrow. i'm gone gto bed
2) I wrote on my blog that "Drive Slow" sounded like a Gorillaz beat. Close enough to Handsome Boy. Not a good track. Especially for Paul Wall.
3) "Kanye does MF Doom" - that's pretty accurate. I still like it though.
I don't see the John Mayer love but Maroon five is a guilty pleasure.
But then again the lead singer of Maroon 5 and I could play Woody Allen's back up dancers. So it may be a meshpachah thang
Beats are pretty cool sometimes but I doubt the quality will last long. I think after a FEW listens the quality will be gone. Lyrics mess up his tracks. He should stick to producing.
I'm not saying it's a good thing Faux - but I think it's an accurate description of the kind of sound.
Of course, maybe Brion-esque would be more palatable?
Here's a partial Brion CV -
Producer: Aimee Mann, Fiona Apple, Rhett Miller (from the Old 97s), Rufus Wainwright.
Instrumentalist: Jellyfish, Elliott Smith, eels, Macy Gray, the Wallflowers, the Chemical Brothers.
Composer: Hard Eight, Magnolia, Punch-Drunk Love.
I believe he's also contributed to both the Onion and LA Weekly as a writer as well...
I mean, think about that-- some people dislike his flow but very few dispute his skills as a producer and still he brought someone else on to improve on what he does best. It's like Eric Clapton bringing in Duane Allman to lay leads on "Layla."
Kanye's also been biggin' up Brion's contribution and presence on the album in interviews on radio and in print - he gave Brion co-producer credit for the album as well instead of some DL ghost production not-in-public covert BS...