Seriously, this is what you're upset about? Shitty comedy rave and the dubstep equivalent of Skid Row? That's what you're calling "electronic music"?
I'm struggling to put it any better that this.
Really, if the examples above are what you consider quintessential "electronic" music you should really start questioning whether you know anything about music.
Technically, all music that is amplified or recorded is "electronic" music.
The only way to hear non-electronic music is to be right there at the time somebody is singing or playing an acoustic instrument.
Pretty limited opportunities for this.
This is some really dumb puerile shit.
I thought weve been trying to get this sites game back and here we go with some level zero "discourse" that isnt going to lead any of us music lovers into a healthy understanding.
Spidey has made some comments on how he never felt "in".
Take this base type nonsense elsewhere or restructure your bias so cats here can actually waste energy on your silly subject.
Hi Diego,
I think you're talking about a narrow strand of music which America has christened 'EDM', ie electro-riff Euro-house music. Most people on this board are going to agree that from Tiesto to to Deadmou5 to anyone playing a wav file whilst emoting over a control surface, pointing their fingers skywayds and imploring a crowd of easy-to-please prancers on drugs to lose their shit NOW is a joke. But I reckon 75% of them would admit there's some merit to the music that whole aesthetic is derived from eg Daft Punk via Chicago house music via 80s boogie music via blah blah blah.
I personally agree that those examples you've collaged together make a convincingly hellish argument.
- Tom
Right on Tom,
Forgive me because my argument may be a little facetious today but it comes from a real place. I'm mostly just talking shit, and acting a fool, because it's Friday, and the weather is great (look at all those commas).
So, anyways fellas don't take me & yourselves so damn seriously.
You see, the reality is there is actually a wide spectrum of what can be considered 'electronic music' that I will consider good. In fact anybody who is creating any type of musical art to me is wonderful. Regardless if I like it or not. Completely dismissing all electronic music and any innovations based around electronics would be in fact ludicrous. I'll agree. I can not deny the tremendous progress & new type of sounds being invented & created these days.
Daft Punk / Chicago House / 80's Boogie / Sly-stone's Little Sister / Mort Garson.. I will agree Yes, these are all positive examples of shit I can get into. I'll even give it to Justice, Nosaj Thing, & also what dudes like Fourtet , Thom Yorke, Daedelus & Flying Lotus are doing.. There are many people out there doing it right & pushing the creativity. I will agree.
I'm mostly bothered by the current trends in popular music as a whole. It feels like we are living in the era of the laptop musician. Being a guitar player who is mostly into 60s & 70s music. I don't see where it would be so very surprising to find out that I'm bored with a lot of electronic music. In fact more so, I could argue that the art of songwriting as a whole is being put into question these days.
I'm just personally bored with all these bedroom electronic artists that seem so prevalent over the Internet, and the thousands of lame electronic DJ's that are not even worth mentioning by first name in my city. I'm surely not the only fuddy duddy bored with a lot of electronic music (which I'll agree 'electronic music' as a term is a fairly broad & off putting term of itself). I'm sure I could word this all a bit more articulately if I had the time.
Let me just end this by saying I'm still a part of the only DJ Collective who spins vinyl in my city. Yes, I'll be participating & promoting in the Beat Swap Meet in my city. I've met many many incredible live musicians recently who aren't using a computer live on stage including Tommy Brenneck, Adrian Quesada, Paz Lenchatin, Autolux & Juan Alderete. I'm sure they'd all be hard pressed to tell you they were able to create there music without the aid of some type of computer.
So, yes there is hope for this world just yet. There is a whole happy medium within the context of musically using computers. However I guess if anyone should lead a rebellion against this robotic army of laptop musicians. It might as well be me. (I'm half Argentinian & rebellion is in my blood.)
So to all of you who are a part of this whole generation of Beat makers & producers making beats with your i-Pad's & your expensive ass shit Apple laptops. More power to you, It may now be your time just yet, but I feel a return to strong songwriting and talented musicians returning. I vow to fight you back musically, and continue to be stubbornly analog as fuck.
This is some really dumb puerile shit.
I thought weve been trying to get this sites game back and here we go with some level zero "discourse" that isnt going to lead any of us music lovers into a healthy understanding.
Spidey has made some comments on how he never felt "in".
Take this base type nonsense elsewhere or restructure your bias so cats here can actually waste energy on your silly subject.
I dont give a fuck ....ill be the asshole.
Oh why don't you go have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. You Jello pudding eating mf'er.
Is your gripe with what you perceive as a lack of strong songwriting or with the fact that people are using electronic instruments to write these songs? Acoustic instruments and great songwriting are not mutually exclusive. Every instrument (electronic and otherwise) is just a tool for expressing your particular musical vision.
I'll even give it to Justice, Nosaj Thing, & also what dudes like Fourtet , Thom Yorke, Daedelus & Flying Lotus are doing.. There are many people out there doing it right & pushing the creativity. I will agree.
Just out of curiosity, why did you post some of their pics as examples of what you don't like? I have no dog in this fight, but I try to keep an open mind and just like what I like. From my experience you end up missing out on some amazing shit when you blanket a whole genre or style of music.
This is some really dumb puerile shit.
I thought weve been trying to get this sites game back and here we go with some level zero "discourse" that isnt going to lead any of us music lovers into a healthy understanding.
Spidey has made some comments on how he never felt "in".
Take this base type nonsense elsewhere or restructure your bias so cats here can actually waste energy on your silly subject.
I dont give a fuck ....ill be the asshole.
Oh why don't you go have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. You Jello pudding eating mf'er.
Is your gripe with what you perceive as a lack of strong songwriting or with the fact that people are using electronic instruments to write these songs? Acoustic instruments and great songwriting are not mutually exclusive. Every instrument (electronic and otherwise) is just a tool for expressing your particular musical vision.
Lack of strong songwriting is one part but also equal parts uninnovative and unoriginal sound and ideas. Usually some type of hollowness in instrumental music that does not build and fall in the right ways. Not many electronic musicians have an original voice.. Just the fact that it was made on a laptop does not make it progressive music.
day said:
Just out of curiosity, why did you post some of their pics as examples of what you don't like? I have no dog in this fight, but I try to keep an open mind and just like what I like. From my experience you end up missing out on some amazing shit when you blanket a whole genre or style of music.
.02
Whatttup Day,
Normally I just never talk about the stuff that I don't like. I could write a series of books about the bullshit music I don't like. In fact I have a whole personal website dedicated to the stuff I do like. I chose to post pictures, because it is just the quickest way to illustrate a side issue that I didn't say out loud.
Watching dudes stare at a laptop screen does not make an entertaining show.
Anyways, you have a good point though, and I'm sure there is some good electronic that I'm missing out on by being a crotchety old bastard. Like the stuff from our friend Yosaku.
For me, when listening to music, I often focus on the drummer or one instrument at a time, and when that instrument is made with a computer or a loop, it becomes boring because every measure is exactly the same.
When a human is playing the same repetative part over and over again, there are still slight variations in accent and timbre that keep your attention and make for a more interesting listening experience. Like those songs where you still hear something new in it the 100th time you hear it.
Once I've listened to a loop or programmed beat for a few measures, I "get it" and there is no real need to listen to it intently anymore, which can make it, as you say, boring.
Another thing is that, while listening, I always like to imagine the band playing the song together in the studio, getting down to the invisible groove. This just doesn't exist with electronic music.
However I definitely can understand the appeal of electronic music and the function it serves and I enjoy some of it and think that some of it is made by very talented musicians.
In fact, I was hoping soulstrut could make some recommendations for me in a related matter.
Several years ago someone have me a copy of the "Rebirth" techno program and I fucked around with it a little and it was fun. I always thought it would be cool to hear what some talented producers have made with it (or something like it) but I don't know where to begin.
I could imagine people making some really cool trippy psychedelic stuff with it (dance or non-dance). Any recommendations? Would especially be interested in songs that are not four-on-the-floor, but open to that too.
Gotta admit Skrillex, Zedd, and Swedish House Mafia have been guilty pleasures for me, this past year or so. Ever since, I got back from my last Vegas trip....
Don't know how strong the scene is in NYC, but LA/Vegas definitely has a strong hipster, scenester crowd that flocks towards this shit. It is quite disgusting, but like any other sensationalist, exaggerated form of art, it does have its appeal (for a second).
It's funny because even with these guilty pleasures in heavy rotation, I find myself "taking a break" from the repetitiveness, and goingback to listening to rapps, and jazz-fusion, and all the stuff I've loved through these years.
Normally I just never talk about the stuff that I don't like. I could write a series of books about the bullshit music I don't like. In fact I have a whole personal website dedicated to the stuff I do like. I chose to post pictures, because it is just the quickest way to illustrate a side issue that I didn't say out loud.
Watching dudes stare at a laptop screen does not make an entertaining show.
Anyways, you have a good point though, and I'm sure there is some good electronic that I'm missing out on by being a crotchety old bastard. Like the stuff from our friend Yosaku.
- spidey
What I meant was, how come you had pictures of Nosaj Thing, Thom Yorke, Flylo etc. as examples of what you don't like, then said:
SPlDEY said:
I'll even give it to Justice, Nosaj Thing, & also what dudes like Fourtet , Thom Yorke, Daedelus & Flying Lotus are doing.. There are many people out there doing it right & pushing the creativity. I will agree.
For me, when listening to music, I often focus on the drummer or one instrument at a time, and when that instrument is made with a computer or a loop, it becomes boring because every measure is exactly the same.
When a human is playing the same repetative part over and over again, there are still slight variations in accent and timbre that keep your attention and make for a more interesting listening experience. Like those songs where you still hear something new in it the 100th time you hear it.
Once I've listened to a loop or programmed beat for a few measures, I "get it" and there is no real need to listen to it intently anymore, which can make it, as you say, boring.
Another thing is that, while listening, I always like to imagine the band playing the song together in the studio, getting down to the invisible groove. This just doesn't exist with electronic music.
However I definitely can understand the appeal of electronic music and the function it serves and I enjoy some of it and think that some of it is made by very talented musicians.
In fact, I was hoping soulstrut could make some recommendations for me in a related matter.
Several years ago someone have me a copy of the "Rebirth" techno program and I fucked around with it a little and it was fun. I always thought it would be cool to hear what some talented producers have made with it (or something like it) but I don't know where to begin.
I could imagine people making some really cool trippy psychedelic stuff with it (dance or non-dance). Any recommendations? Would especially be interested in songs that are not four-on-the-floor, but open to that too.
Great points.
some late 80's/ ealry 90's Industrial and Belgian New Beat stuff has to be some off the hardest electronic schitt to try to listen to, total mutiny to the ears, made for the clubs, you have to go ape schitt to dance to that stuff, you crazy Flemish made some fuckin' nuts music over time.
What I meant was, how come you had pictures of Nosaj Thing, Thom Yorke, Flylo etc. as examples of what you don't like, then said:
SPlDEY said:
I'll even give it to Justice, Nosaj Thing, & also what dudes like Fourtet , Thom Yorke, Daedelus & Flying Lotus are doing.. There are many people out there doing it right & pushing the creativity. I will agree.
I just didn't know what you meant.
Sure.. I like those artists sometimes and sometimes I think they're boring.
BeatChemist said:
Am I the only one that misses when Radiohead was a rock band? That just liked electronic sounds?
This is actually what sparked part of this threadfor me.
Recently my old band Underwater Ally has been re-united, because we'll be playing a Radiohead tribute set in June. Doing a 4-song set of Radiohead covers. I've been fighting back and forth with them.. because I would rather focus on the songwriting aspect of Radiohead (Sail to the Moon, Lucky) as opposed to the Beat-making side of Radiohead which I always felt was mediocre (did not like King of Limbs).
So luckily the only "beat" song we'll be playing by them is Paperbag writer. Which luckily there is no guitar on.. Which allows me time to drink my whiskey.
Otis_Funkmeyer said:
For me, when listening to music, I often focus on the drummer or one instrument at a time, and when that instrument is made with a computer or a loop, it becomes boring because every measure is exactly the same.
When a human is playing the same repetitive part over and over again, there are still slight variations in accent and timbre that keep your attention and make for a more interesting listening experience. Like those songs where you still hear something new in it the 100th time you hear it.
Yes, very good point man. I guess dancing in a night club, with a few drinks in you the repetition is fine, but for casual listening.. I don't get it. I prefer the repetition of James Brown's rhythm section or a well written song every time but that's just me I guess.
Yes, everybody's tie is too tight in this place. They're all afraid of being absurd I guess. I don't mind swimming against the stream. The internet is not that serious.
Spidey (& everybody else that way inclined), check this tune out:
It seems to come from around about the same area as some of the narcoleptic minimal house that I think is what you and others are saying is boring, but it's pushing all the right buttons for me. Great vocal, good kick to the beat & an interesting synth line; it's meant to be simple. Don't ignore current pop & bubbling underground music trends based on a skewed sample of Skrillex etc, because you'd invariably miss out on a few hidden gems that may really do it for you.
In fact, I was hoping soulstrut could make some recommendations for me in a related matter.
Don't know anything about the Re-birth software man but if you're in NYC. I can definitely recommend you check out the band Tortured Soul. I think they completely re-contextualize house music.
djmario said:
Don't ignore current pop & bubbling underground music trends based on a skewed sample of Skrillex etc, because you'd invariably miss out on a few hidden gems that may really do it for you.
Comments
I'm struggling to put it any better that this.
Really, if the examples above are what you consider quintessential "electronic" music you should really start questioning whether you know anything about music.
The only way to hear non-electronic music is to be right there at the time somebody is singing or playing an acoustic instrument.
Pretty limited opportunities for this.
I thought weve been trying to get this sites game back and here we go with some level zero "discourse" that isnt going to lead any of us music lovers into a healthy understanding.
Spidey has made some comments on how he never felt "in".
Take this base type nonsense elsewhere or restructure your bias so cats here can actually waste energy on your silly subject.
I dont give a fuck ....ill be the asshole.
Right on Tom,
Forgive me because my argument may be a little facetious today but it comes from a real place. I'm mostly just talking shit, and acting a fool, because it's Friday, and the weather is great (look at all those commas).
So, anyways fellas don't take me & yourselves so damn seriously.
You see, the reality is there is actually a wide spectrum of what can be considered 'electronic music' that I will consider good. In fact anybody who is creating any type of musical art to me is wonderful. Regardless if I like it or not. Completely dismissing all electronic music and any innovations based around electronics would be in fact ludicrous. I'll agree. I can not deny the tremendous progress & new type of sounds being invented & created these days.
Daft Punk / Chicago House / 80's Boogie / Sly-stone's Little Sister / Mort Garson.. I will agree Yes, these are all positive examples of shit I can get into. I'll even give it to Justice, Nosaj Thing, & also what dudes like Fourtet , Thom Yorke, Daedelus & Flying Lotus are doing.. There are many people out there doing it right & pushing the creativity. I will agree.
I'm mostly bothered by the current trends in popular music as a whole. It feels like we are living in the era of the laptop musician. Being a guitar player who is mostly into 60s & 70s music. I don't see where it would be so very surprising to find out that I'm bored with a lot of electronic music. In fact more so, I could argue that the art of songwriting as a whole is being put into question these days.
I'm just personally bored with all these bedroom electronic artists that seem so prevalent over the Internet, and the thousands of lame electronic DJ's that are not even worth mentioning by first name in my city. I'm surely not the only fuddy duddy bored with a lot of electronic music (which I'll agree 'electronic music' as a term is a fairly broad & off putting term of itself). I'm sure I could word this all a bit more articulately if I had the time.
Let me just end this by saying I'm still a part of the only DJ Collective who spins vinyl in my city. Yes, I'll be participating & promoting in the Beat Swap Meet in my city. I've met many many incredible live musicians recently who aren't using a computer live on stage including Tommy Brenneck, Adrian Quesada, Paz Lenchatin, Autolux & Juan Alderete. I'm sure they'd all be hard pressed to tell you they were able to create there music without the aid of some type of computer.
So, yes there is hope for this world just yet. There is a whole happy medium within the context of musically using computers. However I guess if anyone should lead a rebellion against this robotic army of laptop musicians. It might as well be me. (I'm half Argentinian & rebellion is in my blood.)
So to all of you who are a part of this whole generation of Beat makers & producers making beats with your i-Pad's & your expensive ass shit Apple laptops. More power to you, It may now be your time just yet, but I feel a return to strong songwriting and talented musicians returning. I vow to fight you back musically, and continue to be stubbornly analog as fuck.
Cheers,
- Diego
Oh why don't you go have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. You Jello pudding eating mf'er.
- spidey
Is your gripe with what you perceive as a lack of strong songwriting or with the fact that people are using electronic instruments to write these songs? Acoustic instruments and great songwriting are not mutually exclusive. Every instrument (electronic and otherwise) is just a tool for expressing your particular musical vision.
Just out of curiosity, why did you post some of their pics as examples of what you don't like? I have no dog in this fight, but I try to keep an open mind and just like what I like. From my experience you end up missing out on some amazing shit when you blanket a whole genre or style of music.
.02
I ride.
Just leave. Your perspective is antiquated.
Lack of strong songwriting is one part but also equal parts uninnovative and unoriginal sound and ideas. Usually some type of hollowness in instrumental music that does not build and fall in the right ways. Not many electronic musicians have an original voice.. Just the fact that it was made on a laptop does not make it progressive music.
Whatttup Day,
Normally I just never talk about the stuff that I don't like. I could write a series of books about the bullshit music I don't like. In fact I have a whole personal website dedicated to the stuff I do like. I chose to post pictures, because it is just the quickest way to illustrate a side issue that I didn't say out loud.
Watching dudes stare at a laptop screen does not make an entertaining show.
Anyways, you have a good point though, and I'm sure there is some good electronic that I'm missing out on by being a crotchety old bastard. Like the stuff from our friend Yosaku.
- spidey
STFU
Sorry if I'm off topic. I only read like 1/3 this thread, and got distracted by the pictures of people super excited about looking cool.
For me, when listening to music, I often focus on the drummer or one instrument at a time, and when that instrument is made with a computer or a loop, it becomes boring because every measure is exactly the same.
When a human is playing the same repetative part over and over again, there are still slight variations in accent and timbre that keep your attention and make for a more interesting listening experience. Like those songs where you still hear something new in it the 100th time you hear it.
Once I've listened to a loop or programmed beat for a few measures, I "get it" and there is no real need to listen to it intently anymore, which can make it, as you say, boring.
Another thing is that, while listening, I always like to imagine the band playing the song together in the studio, getting down to the invisible groove. This just doesn't exist with electronic music.
However I definitely can understand the appeal of electronic music and the function it serves and I enjoy some of it and think that some of it is made by very talented musicians.
In fact, I was hoping soulstrut could make some recommendations for me in a related matter.
Several years ago someone have me a copy of the "Rebirth" techno program and I fucked around with it a little and it was fun. I always thought it would be cool to hear what some talented producers have made with it (or something like it) but I don't know where to begin.
I could imagine people making some really cool trippy psychedelic stuff with it (dance or non-dance). Any recommendations? Would especially be interested in songs that are not four-on-the-floor, but open to that too.
Gotta admit Skrillex, Zedd, and Swedish House Mafia have been guilty pleasures for me, this past year or so. Ever since, I got back from my last Vegas trip....
Don't know how strong the scene is in NYC, but LA/Vegas definitely has a strong hipster, scenester crowd that flocks towards this shit. It is quite disgusting, but like any other sensationalist, exaggerated form of art, it does have its appeal (for a second).
It's funny because even with these guilty pleasures in heavy rotation, I find myself "taking a break" from the repetitiveness, and goingback to listening to rapps, and jazz-fusion, and all the stuff I've loved through these years.
b/w
Approaching different genres from a rockist perspective will only get you mad.
Come on man. I'm clearly not talking about Tonto & Stevie.
- spidey
And the way you roll with the punches does you credit.
This kind of thread keeps the board fun, IMHO.
K.O.K.O.
What I meant was, how come you had pictures of Nosaj Thing, Thom Yorke, Flylo etc. as examples of what you don't like, then said:
I just didn't know what you meant.
Great points.
some late 80's/ ealry 90's Industrial and Belgian New Beat stuff has to be some off the hardest electronic schitt to try to listen to, total mutiny to the ears, made for the clubs, you have to go ape schitt to dance to that stuff, you crazy Flemish made some fuckin' nuts music over time.
Sure.. I like those artists sometimes and sometimes I think they're boring.
This is actually what sparked part of this threadfor me.
Recently my old band Underwater Ally has been re-united, because we'll be playing a Radiohead tribute set in June. Doing a 4-song set of Radiohead covers. I've been fighting back and forth with them.. because I would rather focus on the songwriting aspect of Radiohead (Sail to the Moon, Lucky) as opposed to the Beat-making side of Radiohead which I always felt was mediocre (did not like King of Limbs).
So luckily the only "beat" song we'll be playing by them is Paperbag writer. Which luckily there is no guitar on.. Which allows me time to drink my whiskey.
Yes, very good point man. I guess dancing in a night club, with a few drinks in you the repetition is fine, but for casual listening.. I don't get it. I prefer the repetition of James Brown's rhythm section or a well written song every time but that's just me I guess.
- spidey
Yes, everybody's tie is too tight in this place. They're all afraid of being absurd I guess. I don't mind swimming against the stream. The internet is not that serious.
- spidey
It seems to come from around about the same area as some of the narcoleptic minimal house that I think is what you and others are saying is boring, but it's pushing all the right buttons for me. Great vocal, good kick to the beat & an interesting synth line; it's meant to be simple. Don't ignore current pop & bubbling underground music trends based on a skewed sample of Skrillex etc, because you'd invariably miss out on a few hidden gems that may really do it for you.
Don't know anything about the Re-birth software man but if you're in NYC. I can definitely recommend you check out the band Tortured Soul. I think they completely re-contextualize house music.
Cheers & thanks for the tune man.
- spidey
You're upset that Spidey is talking your stock down.
Whatever.
Most electronic music, especially with no beat, groove or vocals, bores the shit out of me.
I'd rather have a lobotomy than to listen to stuff like this
Dude had an opinion, but it wasn't like he was espousing socialism or something.
: