Posts celebrating people getting banned = troll-ish behavior 101. And as usual, it encourages people to just post the same arguments they ALWAYS post when discussions around banning start up. Rock's never going to move on his position (or his insistence on weak analogies) and all the folks trying to shout them down aren't going to get moved off their perch either.
Seriously, Bassie nailed this completely on the head: trolls are only as bad as those feeding them are and folks here simply can't help themselves. I was tempted to just delete the thread but then there'd be at least two more by people bitching about "censorship."
Let Frankie back in. He's not the problem, just a symptom of it.
This board was created around a style of music that can inherently be offensive. So much so that idiots on the religious right and other "we have to protect the children" groups complain and call for censorship. So the record labels produce censored versions of the offensive songs in question so that these folks tiny sensibilities won't be upset. But that's not good enough, some of these fools apparently have no self control and keep listening to the offensive versions and complaining even though they have been given an alternative. The very existence of these songs, even though they have been given a way to avoid them, upsets them so much that they want the music banned so that no one has to listen to what offends THEM.
That's what we have here. A poster is offensive and people bitch about him. They are given a way to not have to read his posts ever again by virtue of an "Ignore" feature. But that's not good enough, some of these folks keep reading the offensive poster and complaining even though they have been given an alternative. Folks with no apparent self control keep on clicking on his posts and complain about them to the point where they call for hm to be banned. The very existence of this poster, even though they have been given a way to avoid him, upsets them so much that they want the poster banned so that no one has to read the posts that offend THEM.
the "ignore" feature is not so helpful with people who take over threads and draw all attention to themselves. threads start to look like redacted government documents. just saying. I honestly don't care if MLJ gets banned or not, but I can see why Raj would want to, and respect his decision. just like I did Crink's on Waxidermy when he felt compelled to ban the same dude.
Here???s what I have a real hard time wrapping my head around
some of you vociferously support the rights of corporations like Monsanto to go into a real life community, set up business, create a questionably hygienic environment and tremendously upset the lives and livelihoods of those who live, work and own businesses within said community. But in THIS community if someone simply posts words that upset or offend you, a lynch mob forms to ban the offender from being here.
I can deal with a dissenting opinion or two, but there is such a thing as "crossing lines" or "going to extremes"...
the "ignore" feature is not so helpful with people who take over threads and draw all attention to themselves. threads start to look like redacted government documents.
I think banning is wack and I think an Ignore feature is wack; I think self-regulating with regard to clicking on threads is underrated and I think the contributions of some of the folks cheering the loudest in this thread are overrated; I have always believed in the lesser-known second half of that well-known saying--"...and the sincerest form of criticism is creation"--and I have never believed, during the shitty times, that bad posters are what is wrong with this good place, or that the answer is "less noise" rather than "more signal."
I'd love to be proven wrong, though, and now that the collective has been rid of FrankieMillstone, I eagerly await the dramatic increase in quality posting that will surely result.
Here's to Not Blaming The Soundman In 2012, soulstrut.
I think banning is wack and I think an Ignore feature is wack; I think self-regulating with regard to clicking on threads is underrated and I think the contributions of some of the folks cheering the loudest in this thread are overrated; I have always believed in the lesser-known second half of that well-known saying--"...and the sincerest form of criticism is creation"--and I have never believed, during the shitty times, that bad posters are what is wrong with this good place, or that the answer is "less noise" rather than "more signal."
I'd love to be proven wrong, though, and now that the collective has been rid of FrankieMillstone, I eagerly await the dramatic increase in quality posting that will surely result.
Here's to Not Blaming The Soundman In 2012, soulstrut.
I'll admit the grave dancing is childish and NAGL. I'll also admit that I'm not the best contributor (by far).
You and O-Dub both make good points that I agree with, but the argument that it's our collective fault for clicking on a thread doesn't hold water here. It is precisely the problem with dude. There was no escaping him. Hcrink summed it up best.
hcrink said:
The problem with MLJ is that he will suck the life out of any topic if given the chance. When you tell him to chill with whatever police beating or right wing conspiracy he's on about for the 800th time, because, you know, this is like a MUSIC FORUM & shit he'll put his energies in to baiting random people in random threads and just basically be a rain cloud over everyones day. It's sad because I believe he's a smart guy with a genuine love of music. He just can't control himself. It's not even this big freedom of speech issue some of you try to make it out to be. He is not some misunderstood crusader. He's the bratty little kid you've asked to behave, put in the time out corner, grounded for weeks at a time, who still refuses to behave. At some point you just have to ship the little fucker off the military school and call it a day.
This isn't an issue of free speech (on a message board?) or ideology, it was letting someone run amok and carpet bomb this place. Chasing people to argue in other threads etc. Shit was out of control. I see no problem with moderators pulling the reigns here.
I think banning is wack and I think an Ignore feature is wack; I think self-regulating with regard to clicking on threads is underrated and I think the contributions of some of the folks cheering the loudest in this thread are overrated;
Agreed
Facebook is a perfect example of a place where you never have to be bothered by anyone you don't like, don't agree with or don't want to read what they have to say.
A world where you don't have to ever face anyone who offends you or you don't like might sound pleasant, but it would be boring as hell.
I guess my problem is that dealing with assholes is part of my day to day life...I just never let them get the better of me.
the argument that it's our collective fault for clicking on a thread doesn't hold water here.
Just to clarify: My argument is mainly that it's our collective fault for not posting more quality shit, for not having more character. I really feel that a big part of the reason Frankie's stultifying voice seemed so inescapable is because there wasn't anywhere near enough interesting shit to offset it.
There's this myth that in Ye Olden Golden Days Of Soulstrut there was less bullshit. The truth is that there was every bit as much, it's just that for every tireless dullard like Frankie there would have been two or three dudes vivid and engaging enough to render him not so important.
In contrast, I'd challenge anyone to name new posters--the last two or three years, let's say--who have come with anything like a distinctive voice. I'm not just talking about dudes who are "nice" or "knowledgeable" or "the homie" or whatever, but dudes who genuinely add something interesting to the tone of this place. The only one who comes to mind is that dukeofdelridge guy, and I don't see him around much anymore, to the extent that I see anybody.
To me, the fact that a no-count like Frankie could come to dominate this entire board is less angering than disappointing.
James nails it on the head right there. And honestly, it's a big reason why I don't read the board very much, let alone posting on it. I'm not saying that to castigate the community as a whole. It's just a depressing place to be at times, especially when it's the same tiny handful of voice yelling at one another over the same damn topics again and again.
I know I'm in the minority here - and this represents a 180 on my part - but I think, for starters, creating a separate forum for political threads would be a fruitful place to start.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Yeah, it totally makes sense to indict the board for lack of content and then admit that you seldom post in the same sentence.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
Not that I'm saying anything new here, but I don't think it's the political threads per se which are the issue. There have been some fairly intense political threads on here in the past, but none of them were started by him. He'd never lead the discussion, but he could sure hold a pillow over the face of it if he thought he wasn't dominating the argument, usually by resorting to cheap shots of the "yeah, well, at least I don't have a big nose" variety. Putting him on ignore immediately made this place more bearable for me, and never once did I feel as if I was missing out on a worthwhile perspective or anything. That says a lot about what he actually contributed to this place. I take SOI's point about the ignore function making certain threads look like redacted government documents, but that's not a fault of the ignore function. That's a result of him being one of those blowhards who sucks all the fun out of the room to the point where even people on the same side of an argument as him will think he's a prick. I doubt he's the sole reason that we no longer see so much of certain regulars - the ones who add far more to the dynamic of this place than he ever did - but I wouldn't mind betting he's one of the reasons that some of them choose to stay away.
Finally this thread is coming to its senses. It wasn't meant to come across as "gravedancing" since I figured he would return immediately as had happened in the past (he kept coming back to Waxidermy until they CLOSED REGISTRATION). We needed to have a discussion about what to do with this absolute troll and I'm glad we're finally having it and that it has led to a wider discussion about this board in general.
Comments
Seriously, Bassie nailed this completely on the head: trolls are only as bad as those feeding them are and folks here simply can't help themselves. I was tempted to just delete the thread but then there'd be at least two more by people bitching about "censorship."
Let Frankie back in. He's not the problem, just a symptom of it.
This board was created around a style of music that can inherently be offensive. So much so that idiots on the religious right and other "we have to protect the children" groups complain and call for censorship. So the record labels produce censored versions of the offensive songs in question so that these folks tiny sensibilities won't be upset. But that's not good enough, some of these fools apparently have no self control and keep listening to the offensive versions and complaining even though they have been given an alternative. The very existence of these songs, even though they have been given a way to avoid them, upsets them so much that they want the music banned so that no one has to listen to what offends THEM.
That's what we have here. A poster is offensive and people bitch about him. They are given a way to not have to read his posts ever again by virtue of an "Ignore" feature. But that's not good enough, some of these folks keep reading the offensive poster and complaining even though they have been given an alternative. Folks with no apparent self control keep on clicking on his posts and complain about them to the point where they call for hm to be banned. The very existence of this poster, even though they have been given a way to avoid him, upsets them so much that they want the poster banned so that no one has to read the posts that offend THEM.
Personally I give that analogy about a "B".
ahg - why does that Sister Sledge song keep playing???
I think that is the most annoying part of this thread. ;)
(or the original poster could disable autoplay)
Femme la bouche ma petite fleur. I'm gonna play this song for you for life now!
I'm counting down til midnight...
I can deal with a dissenting opinion or two, but there is such a thing as "crossing lines" or "going to extremes"...
Kindly,
parallax
I'd love to be proven wrong, though, and now that the collective has been rid of FrankieMillstone, I eagerly await the dramatic increase in quality posting that will surely result.
Here's to Not Blaming The Soundman In 2012, soulstrut.
I'll admit the grave dancing is childish and NAGL. I'll also admit that I'm not the best contributor (by far).
You and O-Dub both make good points that I agree with, but the argument that it's our collective fault for clicking on a thread doesn't hold water here. It is precisely the problem with dude. There was no escaping him. Hcrink summed it up best.
This isn't an issue of free speech (on a message board?) or ideology, it was letting someone run amok and carpet bomb this place. Chasing people to argue in other threads etc. Shit was out of control. I see no problem with moderators pulling the reigns here.
Agreed
Facebook is a perfect example of a place where you never have to be bothered by anyone you don't like, don't agree with or don't want to read what they have to say.
A world where you don't have to ever face anyone who offends you or you don't like might sound pleasant, but it would be boring as hell.
I guess my problem is that dealing with assholes is part of my day to day life...I just never let them get the better of me.
There's this myth that in Ye Olden Golden Days Of Soulstrut there was less bullshit. The truth is that there was every bit as much, it's just that for every tireless dullard like Frankie there would have been two or three dudes vivid and engaging enough to render him not so important.
In contrast, I'd challenge anyone to name new posters--the last two or three years, let's say--who have come with anything like a distinctive voice. I'm not just talking about dudes who are "nice" or "knowledgeable" or "the homie" or whatever, but dudes who genuinely add something interesting to the tone of this place. The only one who comes to mind is that dukeofdelridge guy, and I don't see him around much anymore, to the extent that I see anybody.
To me, the fact that a no-count like Frankie could come to dominate this entire board is less angering than disappointing.
I know I'm in the minority here - and this represents a 180 on my part - but I think, for starters, creating a separate forum for political threads would be a fruitful place to start.
No offense, but you'd have to be one sad, suffering son-of-a-gun to make a remark like that.
It's only a matter of time
(axe-throwing-r)
(all bacon baking-r)
(only the incredible hulk and prince are allowed to wear purple-r)
BAN POSTHASTE
Please to BAN yet again
Yeah, I've never even seen this dude. My guess is its Faux_Rillz real name or something. Also, whatever happened to Bob Desperado?