[quote That's cool. I've always liked that Pimp C line, too, but it seemed to me that there was a little bit of anger there, like he was tired of getting hated on by NYcentrists and was just laying it out: we don't do what you do and we don't want to.
Exactly. Regardless of his intent, it's damn good example of the feelings down here. I can't really explain it but the sound of southern rap is just dope to me. It's heavy, rhythmic, insight disguised as ignorance. I even like some of the stuff considered extremely corny elsewhere. Dirty for example. Stupid as it sounds, the Hit da Floe 12in was one of my grails for a while. It was limited released and it if you didn't get it when it first came out you just didn't see it. I was so amped when I finally saw it in a dollar bin.
Hit The Floe is a hot track. Try telling a room full of randomly selected "hip hop heads" that.
Not really. I did some shows where they were on the same bill 3 or 4 years ago. I only ever talked to 9th Wonder and he's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.
It's interesting you bring them up, because after they started to make a dent the scene around here really changed. The shows I mentioned earlier started to move more in that direction. There was a small window when it was nice to see all sorts of groups on the same stage but it's pretty much divided into two scenes now.
I never went to too many shows in Durham, just mostly whatever party Brian Dawson was putting on, or we would go to the Power Company or Tobacco Roadhouse when it was open.
I remember thinking when I first moved to North Carolina that the DJs were a little more open-minded than the DJs where I'm from in coastal Georgia...Namely, I remember thinking it was weird to hear reggae, go-go music, and New York hip-hop at the club ie, "Wow, people really dance to music like this outside of music videos?" In retrospect, I realized that clubs that play exclusively Miami bass and bounce and/or crunk music are the exception, even in the South.
I played a short time in a club called The Local Spot (in Chapel Hill of all places) before crunk music was a term. I pretty much did exclusively bounce, with some popular dancehall for a break, but that was the exception. It was a tiny club that always broke fire code regs and cops would come. It was shut down before a year. There's a place like that in Durham now called the Executive Club which includes the latest bootleg movies showing on TVs. But I don't think it's long for the world either. There was the obligatory gun incident in the street and also a night that was 18 and under w/ alcohol being served
More importantly, for many young people in the south, that was their own It takes a Nation of Millions... or Low End Theory.
texas, primarily.
UGk were HUGE in my town in texas in the 90s. and we really didn't get much exposure to the east coast shit (i always had to actively seek it out) - UGK and the geto boys was big even to the casual rap fan then.
Try telling a room full of randomly selected "hip hop heads" that. I wouldn't worry about that these days- seems like it would be hard to even get a room full of "hip hop heads" anymore!
But seriously, I'm getting intrigued by some of this schooling you're doing, hommie. That line about "insight disguised as ignorance" has really got me thinking that maybe I need to really listen to more down south stuff and maybe not just dismiss it at face value. In fact, after all this talk about the UGK "Ridin' Dirty" album being compared to PE's "It Takes A Nation..." (BLASPHEMY) I just downloaded the album and I gotta admit, I am loving this shit. So far the only down south rap I've really been able to listen to in large doses is Outkast and Luda (not counting Face... that "Mr. Scarface Is Back" from back in the days is one of my top 20 all time albums, but I don't even view it as a "southern rap" album because it sounds like traditional hip hop), but now I see maybe I gotta add UGK to my list. Bun-B is crazy by any standards as a rapper- I don't see how that can be disputed. I feel kinda bad now that I slept on dude for a decade (again, BLASPHEMY).
And to reiterate, this is not sarcasm on my part, honest
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned:
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned:
More importantly, for many young people in the south, that was their own It takes a Nation of Millions... or Low End Theory.
texas, primarily.
UGk were HUGE in my town in texas in the 90s. and we really didn't get much exposure to the east coast shit (i always had to actively seek it out) - UGK and the geto boys was big even to the casual rap fan then.
Yo,
I'm up in Canada - Geto Boys gets spun up here - go to a hip hop night & you'll prolly hear Mind Playing Tricks On Me. I know that UGK has made some noise, but have they a song that's as much an anthem as MPTOM? Not a cameo on another dudes song, but something of their own off one of their albums? From the above lp, I remember Fuck My Car. Is there a song of theirs that gets big play in the states from coast to coast? I'm guessing that Mind Playing Tricks On Me was/is still big in the states? Its still in print, I think. That song wasn't just dope, it seized my imagination.
"I sit alone in my four cornered room staring at candles"
Is there a UGK equivalent? Which song should I be checking?
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned:
Try telling a room full of randomly selected "hip hop heads" that.
I wouldn't worry about that these days- seems like it would be hard to even get a room full of "hip hop heads" anymore!
But seriously, I'm getting intrigued by some of this schooling you're doing, hommie. That line about "insight disguised as ignorance" has really got me thinking that maybe I need to really listen to more down south stuff and maybe not just dismiss it at face value. In fact, after all this talk about the UGK "Ridin' Dirty" album being compared to PE's "It Takes A Nation..." (BLASPHEMY) I just downloaded the album and I gotta admit, I am loving this shit. So far the only down south rap I've really been able to listen to in large doses is Outkast and Luda (not counting Face... that "Mr. Scarface Is Back" from back in the days is one of my top 20 all time albums, but I don't even view it as a "southern rap" album because it sounds like traditional hip hop), but now I see maybe I gotta add UGK to my list. Bun-B is crazy by any standards as a rapper- I don't see how that can be disputed. I feel kinda bad now that I slept on dude for a decade (again, BLASPHEMY).
And to reiterate, this is not sarcasm on my part, honest Thanks man. I really do hope you're not being sarcastic too Ironically, a lot of your sarcastic comments I've seen could definately be the opinions of some. I thought they were hilarious by the way.
Yo, let me ask y'all southern rap dudes a question (and no, I'm not being sarcastic like some of my recent posts): as far as sales go, hasn't southern rap been more dominant overall than NYC-centric rap for a lot longer than just since 1998? Seems like I remember people talking about these down south dudes who I never heard of who were selling hundreds of thousands of records on the indy tip regionally way back when Brand Nubian and Kool G Rap were dropping hip hop classics and couldn't even go gold on major labels. What I'm wondering is has it really just been a thing all these years that the media was focusing on east coast artists when in reality most of the country (which is, indeed, country) wanted that down south schitt all along? I have a lot of theories on this, but I really don't have any numbers to back anything up and I know very little about the history of southern rap. Any educated insight is appreciated.
that's pretty accurate. i grew up in a city in texas that was pretty disconnected from what was happening on the coasts - we didn't really get much exposure to major artists (NWA, geto boys, etc being notable exceptions) - and eventually the people there started paying attention to their own. the no limit shit was huge. so fucking huge. to answer your question - yeah, we didn't feel like our own shit was getting any attention, and nobody was going out of their way to enlighten us, so it was kind of a natural progression from one to the next. and when i tell you that those no limit records sold ... man, they SOLD. that shit flew off the shelves.
UGK can Ri-I-I-I-I-ide on that. The biggest song they'll ever be on. So if the South has been running things for however long, why's that the case. Bun Bs verse was sick, no question, but don't let it blind you to who's really president.
The pendulum has swung fully in the other direction. Why do you think most of the suprise Hov verses these days are for dudes like Jeezy, Mike Jones and Aztec???
I think a whole lot of folks nationwide are eagerly anticipating some new UGK at this point
Hov has always been open to north south east west ghetto conscious rock soul r&b. Cause jigga wants to be on every radio station in every market, and he's done that.
I totally admit the South is big. Sure Cash Money/No Limit were selling millions in the late 90s/early 00s (I'm not even talking Rap-a-lot), but now it's across the board. The south before seemed like an island with the occasional glass bottle finding it's way to the national scene. Coming from a very new york-centric position, I used to listen to the radio ALL the time, go to clubs some of the time, and the south was a blip. Things changed. But this shit about who runs shit is so false now. No coast or state or city runs things anymore. Who's selling? 50, Eminem, Kanye, Lil Jon, Game, Luda, TI. That's the whole country right there. So to come with an argument like any UGK album could hold a candle to the fucking heart of hip hop, to the rage of hip hop, to PE's It takes a nation... just makes me mad.
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned:
Man, call a fucking paralegal, cause the post you made explaining that you fixed the problem needs fixing as well? I wish I was a dime a dozen lawyer with nothing to do but post on a website.
THIS SAID - if I had put the same book together in the summer of 2005, things would be much different, simply in reflection of the tenor of the times. Cannibal Ox wouldn't have made my 2005 cut. Neither would have Black Star. Even just three years ago, the indie hip-hop movement felt more vital...
First up, I have the book and I've read it (many times over). And, sure, I have frustrations with its limitations. There were always going to be one or two glaring omissions, purely because - as Oliver has said - there were constraints placed on him by his editor and a lot of the thinking was done within a - let's be honest - quite small group of individuals.
But, it does fill a void in writing about hip-hop. It is, IMO, highly accessible to both hip-hop aficionados and casual supporters. And, while it isn't extensive or exhaustive, it offers enough material to satisfy the curiosity of both 'experienced' and 'inexperienced' hip-hop fans.
But more importantly, it isn't just a list of records that need to be in your collection. If it were, then it would have failed horribly. Rather it offers context, where it is so dearly needed. And I think the quality of writing is what sets this text apart from so much other writing about hip-hop, which is in circulation.
What concerns me is Oliver's remark that, with hindsight, he might do the book differently if he was to compile in 2005. I think such inclinations are inevitable. However, I am concerned that one's perspective and time - in combination - are almost always going to impact on choices made. I would agree that, looking back the Black Star album, isn't nearly as important as I thought it was/would be in '99/2000. But it doesn't lessen its impact in that moment, that was the indie boom. Looking back at Public Enemy and its flagship album, Nation of Millions, one could also argue that it's significance has waned over the years, but that does little to negate the impact it had on hip-hop listeners and producers upon its release and for a few years thereafter.
I'd hate to Volume One revised, but rather I'd like to see it expanded upon in Volume Two. And that's intended as a comment to spur you on, Oliver.
Out of an 11 page thread you chose my :drivebylurker: post to quote?
3
I thought people rather behaved themselves in the thread, I just thought your quote was funny. Dudes be on here like, "you guys get so serious about music."
See me, I don't give a Fuck about music. Fuck some music shit. I'm here for advice on how to get some strange and what kind of wallet will help me in that quest. I will argue about some shoes too. But music?
This is neither here nor there in terms of the preceding 11 pages (since I'm not bothering to re-read it) but given that the book turns 10 in about 3 years, I have wondered about revisiting it (maybe as an e-book) and what content I'd keep/add/delete and probably more importantly, who'd be interesting voices to recruit. I guess I have another 2-3 years to ponder though (and am now trying to remember if I contractually signed off on a 10 year copyright or not).
Out of an 11 page thread you chose my :drivebylurker: post to quote?
3
I thought people rather behaved themselves in the thread, I just thought your quote was funny. Dudes be on here like, "you guys get so serious about music."
See me, I don't give a Fuck about music. Fuck some music shit. I'm here for advice on how to get some strange and what kind of wallet will help me in that quest. I will argue about some shoes too. But music?
hehe.
Haha yeah, i have no idea why I even posted.
"Water...it is wet."
I was thinking how civil this whole thread was, too. We must have been on a good one that week, or just got progressively more jaded as time went by.
Comments
Hit The Floe is a hot track.
Try telling a room full of randomly selected "hip hop heads" that.
I played a short time in a club called The Local Spot (in Chapel Hill of all places) before crunk music was a term. I pretty much did exclusively bounce, with some popular dancehall for a break, but that was the exception. It was a tiny club that always broke fire code regs and cops would come. It was shut down before a year. There's a place like that in Durham now called the Executive Club which includes the latest bootleg movies showing on TVs. But I don't think it's long for the world either. There was the obligatory gun incident in the street and also a night that was 18 and under w/ alcohol being served
texas, primarily.
UGk were HUGE in my town in texas in the 90s. and we really didn't get much exposure to the east coast shit (i always had to actively seek it out) - UGK and the geto boys was big even to the casual rap fan then.
Try telling a room full of randomly selected "hip hop heads" that.
I wouldn't worry about that these days- seems like it would be hard to even get a room full of "hip hop heads" anymore!
But seriously, I'm getting intrigued by some of this schooling you're doing, hommie. That line about "insight disguised as ignorance" has really got me thinking that maybe I need to really listen to more down south stuff and maybe not just dismiss it at face value. In fact, after all this talk about the UGK "Ridin' Dirty" album being compared to PE's "It Takes A Nation..." (BLASPHEMY) I just downloaded the album and I gotta admit, I am loving this shit. So far the only down south rap I've really been able to listen to in large doses is Outkast and Luda (not counting Face... that "Mr. Scarface Is Back" from back in the days is one of my top 20 all time albums, but I don't even view it as a "southern rap" album because it sounds like traditional hip hop), but now I see maybe I gotta add UGK to my list. Bun-B is crazy by any standards as a rapper- I don't see how that can be disputed. I feel kinda bad now that I slept on dude for a decade (again, BLASPHEMY).
And to reiterate, this is not sarcasm on my part, honest
What?
Mike is my friend, but he's the one that got sonned
U MAD DOGGIE?
For a dude that's such a big part of this community -- not to mention a self-proclaimed OCD motherfucker -- you'd think you could properly link a url to keep this thread clean and tidy.
Yo,
I'm up in Canada - Geto Boys gets spun up here - go to a hip hop night & you'll prolly hear Mind Playing Tricks On Me. I know that UGK has made some noise, but have they a song that's as much an anthem as MPTOM? Not a cameo on another dudes song, but something of their own off one of their albums? From the above lp, I remember Fuck My Car. Is there a song of theirs that gets big play in the states from coast to coast? I'm guessing that Mind Playing Tricks On Me was/is still big in the states? Its still in print, I think. That song wasn't just dope, it seized my imagination.
"I sit alone in my four cornered room staring at candles"
Is there a UGK equivalent? Which song should I be checking?
Peace
h
Okay, you poptarts--I fixed it.
I wouldn't worry about that these days- seems like it would be hard to even get a room full of "hip hop heads" anymore!
But seriously, I'm getting intrigued by some of this schooling you're doing, hommie. That line about "insight disguised as ignorance" has really got me thinking that maybe I need to really listen to more down south stuff and maybe not just dismiss it at face value. In fact, after all this talk about the UGK "Ridin' Dirty" album being compared to PE's "It Takes A Nation..." (BLASPHEMY) I just downloaded the album and I gotta admit, I am loving this shit. So far the only down south rap I've really been able to listen to in large doses is Outkast and Luda (not counting Face... that "Mr. Scarface Is Back" from back in the days is one of my top 20 all time albums, but I don't even view it as a "southern rap" album because it sounds like traditional hip hop), but now I see maybe I gotta add UGK to my list. Bun-B is crazy by any standards as a rapper- I don't see how that can be disputed. I feel kinda bad now that I slept on dude for a decade (again, BLASPHEMY).
And to reiterate, this is not sarcasm on my part, honest
Thanks man. I really do hope you're not being sarcastic too
that's pretty accurate. i grew up in a city in texas that was pretty disconnected from what was happening on the coasts - we didn't really get much exposure to major artists (NWA, geto boys, etc being notable exceptions) - and eventually the people there started paying attention to their own. the no limit shit was huge. so fucking huge. to answer your question - yeah, we didn't feel like our own shit was getting any attention, and nobody was going out of their way to enlighten us, so it was kind of a natural progression from one to the next. and when i tell you that those no limit records sold ... man, they SOLD. that shit flew off the shelves.
Man, call a fucking paralegal, cause the post you made explaining that you fixed the problem needs fixing as well? I wish I was a dime a dozen lawyer with nothing to do but post on a website.
STILL
Try again, Young Regatta.
1. Who shows their dirty draws?
2.
3. You all sound like Nerds of the Roundtable - and I'm still on page 4!
Some of what you guys are saying, and the energy involved in supporting some of these dudes is hysterical.
"hip hop started in the west!"
First up, I have the book and I've read it (many times over). And, sure, I have frustrations with its limitations. There were always going to be one or two glaring omissions, purely because - as Oliver has said - there were constraints placed on him by his editor and a lot of the thinking was done within a - let's be honest - quite small group of individuals.
But, it does fill a void in writing about hip-hop. It is, IMO, highly accessible to both hip-hop aficionados and casual supporters. And, while it isn't extensive or exhaustive, it offers enough material to satisfy the curiosity of both 'experienced' and 'inexperienced' hip-hop fans.
But more importantly, it isn't just a list of records that need to be in your collection. If it were, then it would have failed horribly. Rather it offers context, where it is so dearly needed. And I think the quality of writing is what sets this text apart from so much other writing about hip-hop, which is in circulation.
What concerns me is Oliver's remark that, with hindsight, he might do the book differently if he was to compile in 2005. I think such inclinations are inevitable. However, I am concerned that one's perspective and time - in combination - are almost always going to impact on choices made. I would agree that, looking back the Black Star album, isn't nearly as important as I thought it was/would be in '99/2000. But it doesn't lessen its impact in that moment, that was the indie boom. Looking back at Public Enemy and its flagship album, Nation of Millions, one could also argue that it's significance has waned over the years, but that does little to negate the impact it had on hip-hop listeners and producers upon its release and for a few years thereafter.
I'd hate to Volume One revised, but rather I'd like to see it expanded upon in Volume Two. And that's intended as a comment to spur you on, Oliver.
PEACE
G'
I should've said that five years ago
It is funny how excited you guys that are really into music get, when discussing music!
:mycat'sbreathsmellslikecatfood:
3
Mr. Scarface Is Back >>>> The Fix
Inner City Griots >>>>> To Whom It May Concern
The Mail Man is my favorite E-40 album.
One of the biggest artists in the South ever...(whose not actually from the South) DJ Quik needs Quik Is the Name on there.
And my list would definitely include each of Rise, Illgal Business, and Something Serious.
The south has been on top longer than eight years now!! People forget about NO LIMIT in the 90's and cash money!
Check the date on that post; at the time it was made, "eight years ago" was ~'97/'98
I thought people rather behaved themselves in the thread, I just thought your quote was funny. Dudes be on here like, "you guys get so serious about music."
See me, I don't give a Fuck about music. Fuck some music shit. I'm here for advice on how to get some strange and what kind of wallet will help me in that quest. I will argue about some shoes too. But music?
hehe.
deej
Only if I could convince him not to write in txt speak.
Haha yeah, i have no idea why I even posted.
"Water...it is wet."
I was thinking how civil this whole thread was, too. We must have been on a good one that week, or just got progressively more jaded as time went by.