Thank you, Oregon, for telling us what our flag means.
We got any Canadiens who want to take a stab at it now?
It's not like history is a secret that can only be understood by a few people.
to be honest as a canadian of african descent i felt it was not my place to get involved in this thread
but with any of this socially sensitive and historically ambiguous topics (affirmative action, reverse racism, regional pride, preserving a culture, cultural/immigration ''accommodation'')
i am always amazed at how hard people (''neutrals'') fight to win the tug of war instead of taking a L
a historically ravaged and enslaved population's opinion of a clear symbol of oppression vs
a misunderstood symbol of regional pride and history
both sides have arguments but why nitpick instead of simply admitting this flag seems disrespectful to a majority of people and in respect to the hardships they have and continue to face i will respectfully put it aside. instead of clamoring that ''THEY'' will not be allowed to tell me what i represents for ME
if canada can contribute anything to this discussion it would be the Bouchard/Taylor commission
and IMO it's terrible failure.
Simply discussing cultural ''budging'' of the slightest order creates a huge shitstorm and leads directly to political gains by right wing parties by them offering themselves as protectors of a cultural that was never ''under attack'' to begin with
you will start having people come out of the woodworks claiming they are scared that if we let ''THEM'' in they will start ''taking'' more and more (give them an inch related)
the fact it is nearly impossible to have civil and balanced discourse on simple multicultural issues answers rock's question about how can society deal with the legacy of slavery. It's fucking hard and should start with a mandatory sociology class for everyone before they open their mouth.... (elitist!)
anyone interested in this subject should read
I respect everyone's opinion but like many others i trust my gut and would say that we don't experience the planet in the same way is the trillest thing said in this thread
aurevoir! (this may be off the subject but that was the point, namecalling/card pulling was not)
you guys should ressurect the black jail thread while you are at it! it strangely creates the same type of gut reactions but some people may not be in the same camp, and it's the type of thing whether you can admit it to yourself or not there is one clear answer
the fact it is nearly impossible to have civil and balanced discourse on simple multicultural issues answers rock's question about how can society deal with the legacy of slavery. It's fucking hard and should start with a mandatory sociology class for everyone before they open their mouth.... (elitist!)
Even though I may express views and opinions that some may not agree with, I truly do try to maintain a civil and respectful discourse which with sensitive and emotional topics can be difficult. If I ever stray from that civility I should be called out on it.
I think part of the problem within this thread is something that goes beyond slavery and racism, it's a disrespect between what is traditionally considered the North and South of our country. If you were to remove most of the contentious things like slavery, racism and the Civil War from the equation, this disrespect and hatred would still exist.
Having spent half of my life in both places I've been able to experience and understand both sides of it.
In 1980 when I moved to Texas from NYC I was a "Damn Yankee" and Texans were not shy about letting me know it. I quickly learned that a Yankee was a notherner...a Damn Yankee was a northerner who travelled south and a God Damn Yankee was a northerner who traveled south and stayed. I was surprised by the hatred these southern folks harbored.
Although I grew up in NY, my mother was from the south and I spent time in North Carolina growing up and my southern relatives spent time in NY so I was raised around and respected both "Yankees" & "Rebels". It was my southern grandfather who taught me the most, by far, about respecting black people and treating them as my equal. He introduced me to a black woman and told me she was the greatest human he had ever met....this was powerful stuff that I'd never forget.
So when I was called a "Yankee" with disdain it was hard to understand why?
In the late 70's there was a BIG migration of people from the north to the south. I was part of this wave and it lasted for almost 25 years. So much so that many places doubled in population with "Yankees" no longer being the small minority. As that happened, the hatred for Yankees died away....the "Love NY Take I-40 North" bumper stickers disappeared and the atmosphere changed into a very friendly melting pot of people. You would be hard pressed to find a conversation in 2011 in the south that was derogatory towards the North when 30 years ago it was commonplace.
The problem is that southerners did not move north, and after a while I began to see the reasons that southerners didn't like "Yankees" in the first place. Having spent half my life down here I consider myself a Southerner, and a Texan and there is a lot of venom and hatred still in the north towards folks like me.
The stereotype that is perpetuated is that southerners are uneducated, ignorant people and when you are part of that stereotyped group simply by virtue of location it's offensive, like all stereotypes are. We see it here at SS, this matter of fact portrayal of southerners being racist and hateful. When you consider the migration of "Yankees" that has taken place this is some bizarre "Pot calling the Pot" black shit.
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
So in 2011 the people of the South are treated like shit by the North and think..."We let a bunch of you move down here, we opened our homes and towns to you and you STILL talk shit about us"...hell, even I sometimes feel like giving a Yankee who bashes the southern culture a big FUCK YOU....and by birth I'm one of THEM.
This by no means rationalizes the confederate flag, racism or any of the other heinous things in the history of the south, but it should give perspective of why someone like Harvey tries to defend a place that he loves and grew up in.
Respect is a two way street.....and spending time in both lanes is a real eye opener
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
DrWu said:
The irony of Harvey defending the south's honor like some cracker cop in Selma is not lost on me at this point. You're a real gem my brother.
No, you just don't understand the dynamic down here enough to appreciate the complexities. You only want to throw stones, so that's just like what you do.
i just wanted to make clear that i respect both Harvey and rock and hope to one day have some crawfish and grilled oysters with each respectfully. My post was more a commentary on how discussions like these quickly end up in shouting matches and that is a fault on both sides. (with a krit joke for good measure)
I for one, have greatly benefited from Rock's perspectives on a lot of issues given that generationally, culturally and economically he has been on both sides of the coins. One person's critique or counter-argument should not automatically label them as one camp or another and especially not be considered a pre-emptive blueprint for the rest of their argumentation.
The North-South, liberal/conservative divide seems indelible in the US and i wonder if the us/them reactionary culture is not a by-product of an exclusive 2 party system. (can-o-worms)
Can't we all light a blunt with a confederate flag, share a 40 with a rival voter and get laid to the sounds of Sweet Home Alabama and call it a day!
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
wtf?
are you really such an apologist for the South that you'll fight against the characterization of slavery as 'shameful'??
as for the rest of it, you really need to read a book or something
The worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years was indeed shameful.
But to single out the South, the way y'all are doing here, is extremely short-sighted.
Again, this old news has y'all heated. But if someone talks about actual racism today...*crickets*.
I see y'all.
What a joke. The topic of the thread is the US Civil War and not the " worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years". No one's "singling out the South", it's the topic of the thread.
This is the problem wiht Confederate apologists. They consistently try to paint themselves as victims. Quite pathetic. God forbid we talk about the US Civil war. I mean, it's only the 150th anniversary of it starting. Yeah, that makes us heated.
Go ahead and try to deflect, and re-write history. It's been going on since the Reconcilliation. We see you, too.
i just wanted to make clear that i respect both Harvey and rock and hope to one day have some crawfish and grilled oysters with each respectfully. My post was more a commentary on how discussions like these quickly end up in shouting matches and that is a fault on both sides. (with a krit joke for good measure)
I for one, have greatly benefited from Rock's perspectives on a lot of issues given that generationally, culturally and economically he has been on both sides of the coins. One person's critique or counter-argument should not automatically label them as one camp or another and especially not be considered a pre-emptive blueprint for the rest of their argumentation.
The North-South, liberal/conservative divide seems indelible in the US and i wonder if the us/them reactionary culture is not a by-product of an exclusive 2 party system. (can-o-worms)
Can't we all light a blunt with a confederate flag, share a 40 with a rival voter and get laid to the sounds of Sweet Home Alabama and call it a day!
Thanks for this.
It's really distressing to me how many people here (and elsewhere) will dismiss somebody outright as a human being if they don't have the same politics as they do.
Even stranger is the fact that they will consider this being 'principled', when it is really quite the opposite.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Yep, I'm all for getting along. Just don't try stuffing meaning or lack of meaning for something that I'm more closely connected to and thus know otherwise about down my throat. Anyone who says the Rebel flag only stands for slavery or hatred doesn't know what they are talking about. But yeah, I at least understand where the attempted railroading is coming from...so Rillos for all!
We see it here at SS, this matter of fact portrayal of southerners being racist and hateful.
I think that kind of thing is limited to Bob D.
I disagree......maybe now you'll look for it more often, and believe me, you'll see it......unless all this rambling actually does some good and people think twice about it in the future...that would be a good thing.
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
If that's really what you want to do and it IS "worse there" ignoring that fact seems like a funny way to go about it.
If it isn't "worse there" I'm wondering at what point in US history that change came to pass.
I don't think bringing up these questions is unfair and I don't think saying that they amount to claiming "all Southerners are racists" is accurate in any way.
We see it here at SS, this matter of fact portrayal of southerners being racist and hateful.
I think that kind of thing is limited to Bob D.
Bullshit. I've never said anything of the sort.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BobDesperado said:
Rockadelic said:
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
If that's really what you want to do and it IS "worse there" ignoring that fact seems like a funny way to go about it.
I've never been to the North but in my experience, racism nowadays is way worse on the West Coast than it is in the South.
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
If that's really what you want to do and it IS "worse there" ignoring that fact seems like a funny way to go about it.
I've never been to the North but in my experience, racism nowadays is way worse on the West Coast than it is in the South.
With the anti-immigrant crap going on out there at a fever pitch these days I agree with you about the West, though I don't know if I would say "West Coast."
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
If that's really what you want to do and it IS "worse there" ignoring that fact seems like a funny way to go about it.
If it isn't "worse there" I'm wondering at what point in US history that change came to pass.
I don't think bringing up these questions is unfair and I don't think saying that they amount to claiming "all Southerners are racists" is accurate in any way.
I've been told by more than one person that Boston and some of it's surrounding areas are the most racist in our country....don't know if it's true or not but in my experience is no one region has cornered the market on hate and ignorance, they just have different accents.
I've been told by more than one person that Boston and some of it's surrounding areas are the most racist in our country....don't know if it's true or not but in my experience is no one region has cornered the market on hate and ignorance, they just have different accents.
The busing flare-up in Boston in the 70s sure woke a lot of people up around here. And it changed things in a very real way. There's still a lot of ignorance but there's a definite stigma attached to that ignorance now.
My own city has had an influx of Asian immigrants over the past 20 years to the point where a quarter of the population is now Asian. If you had told me 30 years ago that was going to happen I would have predicted an immense amount of ill will, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how smoothly it has gone. There's been grumbling by some local dingbats but that hasn't been reflected politically at all.
And it sure has improved the local restaurant game.
Since it appears that the conversation between Rock, Bon, Harvey, Bob and I is going nowhere, I thought I would consult someone else who's perspective might shed new light on the topic. So I called my brother-in-law, a 45 year old black man from Harvey's beloved NOLA (9th ward) and currently residing in the ATL. I rang him up and asked him without explanation, "what do you think of when you see the rebel flag?". Without batting an eyelash, he said, "racism". We proceeded to have a longer discussion about the flag, what his family went through in 50-60s etc etc. I came away thinking that Rock and Harvey probably have a very different perspective as (southern) white men (I know that Rock may not consider himself a Southernert but he's lived there long enough to at least empathize with the natives). They haven't suffered injustices under the system; they probably know people they respect who wear Skynyrd shirts; It seems understandable that they would view the flag differently then, especially in its various "pop" culture forms as on the Dukes of Hazard or you average Southern rock shirt. I may be way off here but I was struck by the difference their views.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
I got this in the mail last week (subscription related). Pretty much puts to bed the whole "the Civil War was not about Slavery" argument. However, it's doubtful that deniers of this truth will be convinced. In my view, it's reminiscent of how birthers refuse to accept that Obama was born in the US, no matter how much empirical evidence is given.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
I got this in the mail last week (subscription related). Pretty much puts to bed the whole "the Civil War was not about Slavery" argument. However, it's doubtful that deniers of this truth will be convinced. In my view, it's reminiscent of how birthers refuse to accept that Obama was born in the US, no matter how much empirical evidence is given.
What can you do?
The birther shit pisses me off. Donald Trump cynically using it to bump up his market share among brain-dead racist fucks is unconscionable.
In the end I think it's a big political plus for Obama, but it's still the sign of a deeply unhealthy country. It's just not good to have this many stupid crazy people.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
DrWu said:
Since it appears that the conversation between Rock, Bon, Harvey, Bob and I is going nowhere, I thought I would consult someone else who's perspective might shed new light on the topic. So I called my brother-in-law, a 45 year old black man from Harvey's beloved NOLA (9th ward) and currently residing in the ATL. I rang him up and asked him without explanation, "what do you think of when you see the rebel flag?". Without batting an eyelash, he said, "racism". We proceeded to have a longer discussion about the flag, what his family went through in 50-60s etc etc. I came away thinking that Rock and Harvey probably have a very different perspective as (southern) white men (I know that Rock may not consider himself a Southernert but he's lived there long enough to at least empathize with the natives). They haven't suffered injustices under the system; they probably know people they respect who wear Skynyrd shirts; It seems understandable that they would view the flag differently then, especially in its various "pop" culture forms as on the Dukes of Hazard or you average Southern rock shirt. I may be way off here but I was struck by the difference their views.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
Yeah, well here is a black Southern friend of mine's perspective, a dude who learned as a kid that his black great-grandfather and all of his black great uncle had fought for the Confederacy...
-
in a nutshell...that whole war was basically the revolutionary war II
the colonist = the south
the british= the north
75yrs of massacres and states being added be4 the civil war
75th yr come all of sudden how the south is bein ran is a problem..
north n south had slaves...shit the union inherited the slaves from other countries...
niggas were both free and slaves on both sides
niggas own the same shit on both side
niggas in the south wasnt givin laws and rules or taxed for however they made their livin
the union fucked up and shoulda made the rules they fought the south over...when they conquered the land..
thats why america is built on hypocrisy
and people dont see the same shit george washington nem fought the british 4 ..jefferson davis was doin the same thing...
Also, if the Union army was so righteous in its fight against racism, what the fuck were they doing at that same time wiping out entire Native-American populations out West?
Since it appears that the conversation between Rock, Bon, Harvey, Bob and I is going nowhere, I thought I would consult someone else who's perspective might shed new light on the topic. So I called my brother-in-law, a 45 year old black man from Harvey's beloved NOLA (9th ward) and currently residing in the ATL. I rang him up and asked him without explanation, "what do you think of when you see the rebel flag?". Without batting an eyelash, he said, "racism". We proceeded to have a longer discussion about the flag, what his family went through in 50-60s etc etc. I came away thinking that Rock and Harvey probably have a very different perspective as (southern) white men (I know that Rock may not consider himself a Southernert but he's lived there long enough to at least empathize with the natives). They haven't suffered injustices under the system; they probably know people they respect who wear Skynyrd shirts; It seems understandable that they would view the flag differently then, especially in its various "pop" culture forms as on the Dukes of Hazard or you average Southern rock shirt. I may be way off here but I was struck by the difference their views.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
Yeah, well here is a black Southern friend of mine's perspective, a dude who learned as a kid that his black great-grandfather and all of his black great uncle had fought for the Confederacy...
-
in a nutshell...that whole war was basically the revolutionary war II
the colonist = the south
the british= the north
75yrs of massacres and states being added be4 the civil war
75th yr come all of sudden how the south is bein ran is a problem..
north n south had slaves...shit the union inherited the slaves from other countries...
niggas were both free and slaves on both sides
niggas own the same shit on both side
niggas in the south wasnt givin laws and rules or taxed for however they made their livin
the union fucked up and shoulda made the rules they fought the south over...when they conquered the land..
thats why america is built on hypocrisy
and people dont see the same shit george washington nem fought the british 4 ..jefferson davis was doin the same thing...
Also, if the Union army was so righteous in its fight against racism, what the fuck were they doing at that same time wiping out entire Native-American populations out West?
Alternative Harvey:
Roosevelt was just as bad as Hitler because Japanese Americans were in camps, TOO!
[quote author="HarveyCanal date=1303073901
Also, if the Union army was so righteous in its fight against racism, what the fuck were they doing at that same time wiping out entire Native-American populations out West?
Sad. You're just like those birthers. What a shame.
Comments
to be honest as a canadian of african descent i felt it was not my place to get involved in this thread
but with any of this socially sensitive and historically ambiguous topics (affirmative action, reverse racism, regional pride, preserving a culture, cultural/immigration ''accommodation'')
i am always amazed at how hard people (''neutrals'') fight to win the tug of war instead of taking a L
a historically ravaged and enslaved population's opinion of a clear symbol of oppression vs
a misunderstood symbol of regional pride and history
both sides have arguments but why nitpick instead of simply admitting this flag seems disrespectful to a majority of people and in respect to the hardships they have and continue to face i will respectfully put it aside. instead of clamoring that ''THEY'' will not be allowed to tell me what i represents for ME
if canada can contribute anything to this discussion it would be the Bouchard/Taylor commission
and IMO it's terrible failure.
Simply discussing cultural ''budging'' of the slightest order creates a huge shitstorm and leads directly to political gains by right wing parties by them offering themselves as protectors of a cultural that was never ''under attack'' to begin with
you will start having people come out of the woodworks claiming they are scared that if we let ''THEM'' in they will start ''taking'' more and more (give them an inch related)
the fact it is nearly impossible to have civil and balanced discourse on simple multicultural issues answers rock's question about how can society deal with the legacy of slavery. It's fucking hard and should start with a mandatory sociology class for everyone before they open their mouth.... (elitist!)
anyone interested in this subject should read
I respect everyone's opinion but like many others i trust my gut and would say that we don't experience the planet in the same way is the trillest thing said in this thread
aurevoir! (this may be off the subject but that was the point, namecalling/card pulling was not)
you guys should ressurect the black jail thread while you are at it! it strangely creates the same type of gut reactions but some people may not be in the same camp, and it's the type of thing whether you can admit it to yourself or not there is one clear answer
Even though I may express views and opinions that some may not agree with, I truly do try to maintain a civil and respectful discourse which with sensitive and emotional topics can be difficult. If I ever stray from that civility I should be called out on it.
I think part of the problem within this thread is something that goes beyond slavery and racism, it's a disrespect between what is traditionally considered the North and South of our country. If you were to remove most of the contentious things like slavery, racism and the Civil War from the equation, this disrespect and hatred would still exist.
Having spent half of my life in both places I've been able to experience and understand both sides of it.
In 1980 when I moved to Texas from NYC I was a "Damn Yankee" and Texans were not shy about letting me know it. I quickly learned that a Yankee was a notherner...a Damn Yankee was a northerner who travelled south and a God Damn Yankee was a northerner who traveled south and stayed. I was surprised by the hatred these southern folks harbored.
Although I grew up in NY, my mother was from the south and I spent time in North Carolina growing up and my southern relatives spent time in NY so I was raised around and respected both "Yankees" & "Rebels". It was my southern grandfather who taught me the most, by far, about respecting black people and treating them as my equal. He introduced me to a black woman and told me she was the greatest human he had ever met....this was powerful stuff that I'd never forget.
So when I was called a "Yankee" with disdain it was hard to understand why?
In the late 70's there was a BIG migration of people from the north to the south. I was part of this wave and it lasted for almost 25 years. So much so that many places doubled in population with "Yankees" no longer being the small minority. As that happened, the hatred for Yankees died away....the "Love NY Take I-40 North" bumper stickers disappeared and the atmosphere changed into a very friendly melting pot of people. You would be hard pressed to find a conversation in 2011 in the south that was derogatory towards the North when 30 years ago it was commonplace.
The problem is that southerners did not move north, and after a while I began to see the reasons that southerners didn't like "Yankees" in the first place. Having spent half my life down here I consider myself a Southerner, and a Texan and there is a lot of venom and hatred still in the north towards folks like me.
The stereotype that is perpetuated is that southerners are uneducated, ignorant people and when you are part of that stereotyped group simply by virtue of location it's offensive, like all stereotypes are. We see it here at SS, this matter of fact portrayal of southerners being racist and hateful. When you consider the migration of "Yankees" that has taken place this is some bizarre "Pot calling the Pot" black shit.
Hate and racism exists everywhere and to point a finger of "yeah, but it's worse there" is a pissing contest better left unplayed. If it exists anywhere in the U.S. we're all somewhat guilty and definitely all resposible for ending it.
So in 2011 the people of the South are treated like shit by the North and think..."We let a bunch of you move down here, we opened our homes and towns to you and you STILL talk shit about us"...hell, even I sometimes feel like giving a Yankee who bashes the southern culture a big FUCK YOU....and by birth I'm one of THEM.
This by no means rationalizes the confederate flag, racism or any of the other heinous things in the history of the south, but it should give perspective of why someone like Harvey tries to defend a place that he loves and grew up in.
Respect is a two way street.....and spending time in both lanes is a real eye opener
No, you just don't understand the dynamic down here enough to appreciate the complexities. You only want to throw stones, so that's just like what you do.
I for one, have greatly benefited from Rock's perspectives on a lot of issues given that generationally, culturally and economically he has been on both sides of the coins. One person's critique or counter-argument should not automatically label them as one camp or another and especially not be considered a pre-emptive blueprint for the rest of their argumentation.
The North-South, liberal/conservative divide seems indelible in the US and i wonder if the us/them reactionary culture is not a by-product of an exclusive 2 party system. (can-o-worms)
Can't we all light a blunt with a confederate flag, share a 40 with a rival voter and get laid to the sounds of Sweet Home Alabama and call it a day!
What a joke. The topic of the thread is the US Civil War and not the " worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years". No one's "singling out the South", it's the topic of the thread.
This is the problem wiht Confederate apologists. They consistently try to paint themselves as victims. Quite pathetic. God forbid we talk about the US Civil war. I mean, it's only the 150th anniversary of it starting. Yeah, that makes us heated.
Go ahead and try to deflect, and re-write history. It's been going on since the Reconcilliation. We see you, too.
Thanks for this.
It's really distressing to me how many people here (and elsewhere) will dismiss somebody outright as a human being if they don't have the same politics as they do.
Even stranger is the fact that they will consider this being 'principled', when it is really quite the opposite.
I think that kind of thing is limited to Bob D.
I disagree......maybe now you'll look for it more often, and believe me, you'll see it......unless all this rambling actually does some good and people think twice about it in the future...that would be a good thing.
If that's really what you want to do and it IS "worse there" ignoring that fact seems like a funny way to go about it.
If it isn't "worse there" I'm wondering at what point in US history that change came to pass.
I don't think bringing up these questions is unfair and I don't think saying that they amount to claiming "all Southerners are racists" is accurate in any way.
My wives grandfather was born during the civil war.
Her father is still alive.
She is 2 generations removed.
Bullshit. I've never said anything of the sort.
I've never been to the North but in my experience, racism nowadays is way worse on the West Coast than it is in the South.
With the anti-immigrant crap going on out there at a fever pitch these days I agree with you about the West, though I don't know if I would say "West Coast."
I've been told by more than one person that Boston and some of it's surrounding areas are the most racist in our country....don't know if it's true or not but in my experience is no one region has cornered the market on hate and ignorance, they just have different accents.
The busing flare-up in Boston in the 70s sure woke a lot of people up around here. And it changed things in a very real way. There's still a lot of ignorance but there's a definite stigma attached to that ignorance now.
My own city has had an influx of Asian immigrants over the past 20 years to the point where a quarter of the population is now Asian. If you had told me 30 years ago that was going to happen I would have predicted an immense amount of ill will, but I've been pleasantly surprised by how smoothly it has gone. There's been grumbling by some local dingbats but that hasn't been reflected politically at all.
And it sure has improved the local restaurant game.
I saw this in the grocery store today, had to chuckle.
I got this in the mail last week (subscription related). Pretty much puts to bed the whole "the Civil War was not about Slavery" argument. However, it's doubtful that deniers of this truth will be convinced. In my view, it's reminiscent of how birthers refuse to accept that Obama was born in the US, no matter how much empirical evidence is given.
What can you do?
The birther shit pisses me off. Donald Trump cynically using it to bump up his market share among brain-dead racist fucks is unconscionable.
In the end I think it's a big political plus for Obama, but it's still the sign of a deeply unhealthy country. It's just not good to have this many stupid crazy people.
---------
Yeah, well here is a black Southern friend of mine's perspective, a dude who learned as a kid that his black great-grandfather and all of his black great uncle had fought for the Confederacy...
-
Also, if the Union army was so righteous in its fight against racism, what the fuck were they doing at that same time wiping out entire Native-American populations out West?
Alternative Harvey:
Roosevelt was just as bad as Hitler because Japanese Americans were in camps, TOO!
Also, if the Union army was so righteous in its fight against racism, what the fuck were they doing at that same time wiping out entire Native-American populations out West?
Sad. You're just like those birthers. What a shame.
And besides, what about the 1927 US invasion of Honduras. Huh? Huh?
Yeah. They just sang about Jesus and drank wine all day.
And I can't let his silliness about black soldiers fighting for the Confederacy go unanswered, because it's asinine.
http://civilwargazette.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/did-blacks-fight-in-combat-for-the-confederacy/