This may have been discussed before but why?

DeeRockDeeRock 1,836 Posts
edited February 2011 in Strut Central
Does anyone know why 7" 45's have a large center hole instead of a small one like an lp? because SOME 7"s do have small holes and imports do so why not all of them?

  Comments


  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

    Why do "Jukebox EP's" have a small hole??

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
    With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
    But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    finelikewine said:
    because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

    Why do "Jukebox EP's" have a small hole??

    good question...

  • the_dLthe_dL 1,531 Posts
    maybe different brands of jukeboxes made in different countries used dinked or un-dinked records. I know a lot of the US jukebox singles were dinked where as UK seemed to be left whole

  • RCA invented the 45...they also wanted people to exclusively buy their "45" player, so they had to come up with a way to make them incompatible with other record players (as if them playing at 45, a speed that wasn't on other record players, wasnt enough)Hence the big hole...you might have seen the players...little bakelite record players with the ginormus, tower-like spindles. Something went awry with patents (or they licensed them, can't remember) and within a year, most other labels and record player companies were making them and putting that speed on players and making adapters for the records.

    At least that is a story I remember reading a long time ago.

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    I just read recently that RCA used the color of the vinyl to indicate genre when it introduced the 45... wild!

  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    The_Hook_Up said:
    RCA invented the 45...


    Weren't 45 adapters actually known as "RCA adapters" BID, or am I out to lunch?

    Kindly,
    parallax

  • finelikewinefinelikewine "ONCE UPON A TIME, I HAD A VINYL." http://www.discogs.com/user/permabulker 1,416 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
    With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
    But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?


    :hijack: :dominoes:

    does anyone have a clue?

  • SIRUSSIRUS 2,554 Posts
    finelikewine said:
    finelikewine said:
    I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
    With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
    But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?


    :hijack: :dominoes:

    does anyone have a clue?

    i thought nthat there were concerns about the needle literally skipping across the record if there was too much bass. i remember reading (waxpo?) bob james saying something about that in a article.


  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    why is the moon made of cheese?

    why is the earth flat?

    they just are!!! PERIOD!

  • bull_ox said:
    I just read recently that RCA used the color of the vinyl to indicate genre when it introduced the 45... wild!

    I generally don't like colored vinyl, but those early RCA 45s are beautiful - I may spring for one of these one day:



    I don't think it was by genre, though - his other 45s on RCA are different colors, it seems to be random as far as I can tell.

    Some others:

    First 45 ever





  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    The_Hook_Up said:
    RCA invented the 45...they also wanted people to exclusively buy their "45" player, so they had to come up with a way to make them incompatible with other record players (as if them playing at 45, a speed that wasn't on other record players, wasnt enough)Hence the big hole...you might have seen the players...little bakelite record players with the ginormus, tower-like spindles. Something went awry with patents (or they licensed them, can't remember) and within a year, most other labels and record player companies were making them and putting that speed on players and making adapters for the records.

    At least that is a story I remember reading a long time ago.

    That's the story.

    Columbia introduced the 331/3 in 1948. RCA countered with the 45 in 1949. *
    Each sold exclusive players. RCA 45 changers were sold at about cost.
    The War of the Speeds was on!
    Other labels were encouraged to make recordings that could be played on the new players.
    RCA started producing classical 331/3s in 1949.
    Columbia started producing 45s in 1950.

    It was a repeat of earlier format wars.
    Edison v Victrola. Early 1900s.
    Acoustic recording v Electrical recording. Around 1918.

    ______________

    RCA produced 45s in different color vinyl, and different colored labels to denote categories. I think Luck broke this down for us a few months back. The color coded system broke down and colors started to be used randomly.

    _______________

    Still, why the big hole?
    Some designer came up with that, and it was new and different. Most likely the main criteria.
    I think it is a great design because a stack of 45s can be held on your thumb while you flip through them quickly.

    *RCA had introduced a 331/3 disc in 1931 but it flopped.

  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    I can't find an original RCA ad where you can actually read the genre key, but here is one blown up to viewable size from a discography site:



    Not sure how long it lasted, but cool that they tried it regardless.

  • akoako https://soundcloud.com/a-ko 3,413 Posts
    yep the colors were originally for genre, which is pretty interesting.

    not entirely sure if its true either but i've heard they came up with the 45rpm speed by subtracting 33 from 78, which equals 45.

    we have a stereo rock-ola jukebox from '59 and the 45-size hole adapter things appear to be retractable, as in if the player set down a jukebox LP with the small hole, i'm assuming it would push in the 45 size spindle which in turn would set the player at 33 1/3 instead, since there is also a standard size spindle in the middle. i havent tested that since we only have 45s in it, but i'm assuming thats how those worked. i have a jukebox LP of sly's Life LP, i should throw it in there and see what happens.

  • I always thought it had something do to with less use of material = cheaper production also.
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