This may have been discussed before but why?

DeeRock

Does anyone know why 7" 45's have a large center hole instead of a small one like an lp? because SOME 7"s do have small holes and imports do so why not all of them?

finelikewine

because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

Rockadelic

finelikewine said:

because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

Why do "Jukebox EP's" have a small hole??

finelikewine

I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?

finelikewine

Rockadelic said:

finelikewine said:

because they were designed for jukeboxes. The big hole is for the mounting inside the jukebox

Why do "Jukebox EP's" have a small hole??

good question...

the_dL

maybe different brands of jukeboxes made in different countries used dinked or un-dinked records. I know a lot of the US jukebox singles were dinked where as UK seemed to be left whole

The_Hook_Up

RCA invented the 45...they also wanted people to exclusively buy their "45" player, so they had to come up with a way to make them incompatible with other record players (as if them playing at 45, a speed that wasn't on other record players, wasnt enough)Hence the big hole...you might have seen the players...little bakelite record players with the ginormus, tower-like spindles. Something went awry with patents (or they licensed them, can't remember) and within a year, most other labels and record player companies were making them and putting that speed on players and making adapters for the records.

At least that is a story I remember reading a long time ago.

bull_ox

I just read recently that RCA used the color of the vinyl to indicate genre when it introduced the 45... wild!

parallax

The_Hook_Up said:

RCA invented the 45...

Weren't 45 adapters actually known as "RCA adapters" BID, or am I out to lunch?

Kindly,
parallax

finelikewine

finelikewine said:

I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?

:hijack: :dominoes:

does anyone have a clue?

SIRUS

finelikewine said:

finelikewine said:

I've got a question as well. I'm wondering for a long time, why records pre 1980 sound thinner and have less bass and treble than new productions. Even when they were pressed on 12"s and synthesizers for the basslines were used back then.
With vintage synthesizers like the minimoog or an arp synthesizers you can create the deepest basslines imaginable.
But somehow they were not implemented in the old recordings. Why? Has it something to do with the analogue mixing desks that were used for mastering and the mix down for that old recordings?

:hijack: :dominoes:

does anyone have a clue?

i thought nthat there were concerns about the needle literally skipping across the record if there was too much bass. i remember reading (waxpo?) bob james saying something about that in a article.

On_the_Red_Clay

[email=http://arcmusic.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/the-45-adaptor/]*clicky*[/email] for answer to the 45 query

behemoth

why is the moon made of cheese?

why is the earth flat?

they just are!!! PERIOD!

Horseleech

bull_ox said:

I just read recently that RCA used the color of the vinyl to indicate genre when it introduced the 45... wild!

I generally don't like colored vinyl, but those early RCA 45s are beautiful - I may spring for one of these one day:



I don't think it was by genre, though - his other 45s on RCA are different colors, it seems to be random as far as I can tell.

Some others:

First 45 ever

LaserWolf

The_Hook_Up said:

RCA invented the 45...they also wanted people to exclusively buy their "45" player, so they had to come up with a way to make them incompatible with other record players (as if them playing at 45, a speed that wasn't on other record players, wasnt enough)Hence the big hole...you might have seen the players...little bakelite record players with the ginormus, tower-like spindles. Something went awry with patents (or they licensed them, can't remember) and within a year, most other labels and record player companies were making them and putting that speed on players and making adapters for the records.

At least that is a story I remember reading a long time ago.

That's the story.

Columbia introduced the 331/3 in 1948. RCA countered with the 45 in 1949. *
Each sold exclusive players. RCA 45 changers were sold at about cost.
The War of the Speeds was on!
Other labels were encouraged to make recordings that could be played on the new players.
RCA started producing classical 331/3s in 1949.
Columbia started producing 45s in 1950.

It was a repeat of earlier format wars.
Edison v Victrola. Early 1900s.
Acoustic recording v Electrical recording. Around 1918.

______________

RCA produced 45s in different color vinyl, and different colored labels to denote categories. I think Luck broke this down for us a few months back. The color coded system broke down and colors started to be used randomly.

_______________

Still, why the big hole?
Some designer came up with that, and it was new and different. Most likely the main criteria.
I think it is a great design because a stack of 45s can be held on your thumb while you flip through them quickly.

*RCA had introduced a 331/3 disc in 1931 but it flopped.

bull_ox

I can't find an original RCA ad where you can actually read the genre key, but here is one blown up to viewable size from a discography site:



Not sure how long it lasted, but cool that they tried it regardless.

ako

yep the colors were originally for genre, which is pretty interesting.

not entirely sure if its true either but i've heard they came up with the 45rpm speed by subtracting 33 from 78, which equals 45.

we have a stereo rock-ola jukebox from '59 and the 45-size hole adapter things appear to be retractable, as in if the player set down a jukebox LP with the small hole, i'm assuming it would push in the 45 size spindle which in turn would set the player at 33 1/3 instead, since there is also a standard size spindle in the middle. i havent tested that since we only have 45s in it, but i'm assuming thats how those worked. i have a jukebox LP of sly's Life LP, i should throw it in there and see what happens.

dreskieboogie

I always thought it had something do to with less use of material = cheaper production also.