Fuck all your racism/classism hyperbolism. Truthfully, do you think people who cannot see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day?
Yes.
I hate to disappoint, but your classification of me does not fit. I answer to no single ideology.
It is clear from all that you have said that you believe that you are superior to others and thus deserve more privilege.
You think because you can "see through this bullshit" that you deserve to vote.
You think that others who cannot "see through this bullshit" do not deserve to vote.
I would call that an ideology of supremacy and domination.
wofie-
Give one example of an instance where I state that I think I am superior or believe that some people do not deserve to vote. You cannot, because I never said or implied any such thing. I know my worldview does not jive with yours, but is it necessary to resort to false generalizations and totally misconstrue my point. Again, I do not think what was discussed in the article equates to voter suppression. I do not agree with those kinds of tactics and think they are immoral, but they do not rise to the level of voter suppression. No ones right to vote was infringed on. I bet more people on this board agree with me, but are too scared to speak out. If you do not walk in lock step with a certain ideological bent...watch the fuck out!
To Quote Grunt Gravel:
"Truthfully, do you think people who cannot see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day?"
If this does not shed light on your mental state and your view of superiority, then i don't know what does... The fact that you don't see this comment as you saying you are superior or thinking that some peopel should not vote is even sadder/scarier.
Fuck all your racism/classism hyperbolism. Truthfully, do you think people who cannot see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day?
Yes.
I hate to disappoint, but your classification of me does not fit. I answer to no single ideology.
It is clear from all that you have said that you believe that you are superior to others and thus deserve more privilege.
You think because you can "see through this bullshit" that you deserve to vote.
You think that others who cannot "see through this bullshit" do not deserve to vote.
I would call that an ideology of supremacy and domination.
wofie-
Give one example of an instance where I state that I think I am superior or believe that some people do not deserve to vote. You cannot, because I never said or implied any such thing. I know my worldview does not jive with yours, but is it necessary to resort to false generalizations and totally misconstrue my point. Again, I do not think what was discussed in the article equates to voter suppression. I do not agree with those kinds of tactics and think they are immoral, but they do not rise to the level of voter suppression. No ones right to vote was infringed on. I bet more people on this board agree with me, but are too scared to speak out. If you do not walk in lock step with a certain ideological bent...watch the fuck out!
To Quote Grunt Gravel:
"Truthfully, do you think people who cannot see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day?"
If this does not shed light on your mental state and your view of superiority, then i don't know what does... The fact that you don't see this comment as you saying you are superior or thinking that some peopel should not vote is even sadder/scarier.
Never said they didn't have the right to vote or should be banned from voting in any way. I simply asked a question. Sorry, I do not feel bad if someone missed their chance to vote because they could not figure out when Election Day was or missed their "friendly" reminder call from party HQ.
wofie- If you do not walk in lock step with a certain ideological bent around here...watch the fuck out!
I am sorry that you feel so threatened by me. I did not mean to scare, or threaten you in anyway.
I have strong opinions and I am not afraid to state them. No one else on this board has ever mentioned any fear of stating their belifes because of me. As a matter of fact I have encouraged diversity of ideas on this board.
I simpley disagree with you that survival of the fittest is the best way to run our socity. I think survival of the fittest is our socity at it's worse. You seem to be saying it is our best. Or perhaps you don't really mean what you say.
wofie- If you do not walk in lock step with a certain ideological bent around here...watch the fuck out!
I am sorry that you feel so threatened by me. I did not mean to scare, or threaten you in anyway.
I have strong opinions and I am not afraid to state them. No one else on this board has ever mentioned any fear of stating their belifes because of me. As a matter of fact I have encouraged diversity of ideas on this board.
I simpley disagree with you that survival of the fittest is the best way to run our socity. I think survival of the fittest is our socity at it's worse. You seem to be saying it is our best. Or perhaps you don't really mean what you say.
Dan
Huh? What are you talking about, fear and threats? If you want to champion those in society that do not have the sense to figure out when Election Day is on there own, be my guest. I think most rational people can see my point. You really feel comfortable that people that don't have their shit together tight enough to know when to vote are casting votes that could decide the outcome of elections? I don't, just like I think single-issue votes are fucked. I don't think you're being intellectually honest.
wofie- If you do not walk in lock step with a certain ideological bent around here...watch the fuck out!
I am sorry that you feel so threatened by me. I did not mean to scare, or threaten you in anyway.
I have strong opinions and I am not afraid to state them. No one else on this board has ever mentioned any fear of stating their belifes because of me. As a matter of fact I have encouraged diversity of ideas on this board.
I simpley disagree with you that survival of the fittest is the best way to run our socity. I think survival of the fittest is our socity at it's worse. You seem to be saying it is our best. Or perhaps you don't really mean what you say.
Dan
Huh? What are you talking about, fear and threats?
Just trying to understand your rational mind. Did you say that people are scared to post things I would disagree with? Since you are the only one to express this I thought perhaps it was you who were scared. I think most rational people can see my point.
If you want to champion those in society that do not have the sense to figure out when Election Day is on there own, be my guest. I think most rational people can see my point. You really feel comfortable that people that don't have their shit together tight enough to know when to vote are casting votes that could decide the outcome of elections? I don't
See here I am confused by your rational mind again. You don't think someone who is told the wrong voting date should have the right to vote if they believe what they are told? I hope we can agree that is what you just said. You seem to be saying that only people who are well informed should have the right to vote. People supposedly like you and your granny? But you don't think that you are saying you are superior to these people? You don't think most rational people would think you are saying that?
Tell you what. You don't have to stand by anything you have said up till now. You can say, "I think all American citizens should have the right to vote". You can say, "I think people who are tricked out of their vote were wronged". You can say "I don't think I have more of a right to vote because I pay more attention to politics than others".
Just so you are clear where I stand, I believe that all American citizens should have the right to vote. I think that voting should be made as easy as possible. I think that even uninformed and mentally challenged people and senile people should have the right to vote. I believe that people who don't want to see them vote have an ideology or superiority.
This story actually came out a while ago and was in Vanity Faire or something. I remember posting about this on SS when I read it.
Believe it or not, but these kinds of dirty tricks were used by the Bush Campaign against McCain when Bush first ran for office so it's not just a Rep. vs. Dem. thing, but rather a Bush campaign thing.
Some dirty tricks Bush did against his fellow Republican McCain in the South Carolina primary, put flyers on cars parked at evangelical churches saying McCaine was pro-abortion when he is anti-abortion. Hiring telemarketers to call up Republicans and ask potential Republican voters if they would vote for McCain. If they said no, they hung up the phone, if they said yes to McCain they went down a list of bad things about him including a rumor that McCain's wife was mentally ill and did they want a crazy women to be the first lady. The McCain's also have an adopted baby from Asia, I think the kid's Indian or something. Anyway, they put out flyers implying that McCain's wife had sex with a black man, hence the dark skinned baby! They have no shame.
This story actually came out a while ago and was in Vanity Faire or something. I remember posting about this on SS when I read it.
Believe it or not, but these kinds of dirty tricks were used by the Bush Campaign against McCain when Bush first ran for office so it's not just a Rep. vs. Dem. thing, but rather a Bush campaign thing.
Some dirty tricks Bush did against his fellow Republican McCain in the South Carolina primary, put flyers on cars parked at evangelical churches saying McCaine was pro-abortion when he is anti-abortion. Hiring telemarketers to call up Republicans and ask potential Republican voters if they would vote for McCain. If they said no, they hung up the phone, if they said yes to McCain they went down a list of bad things about him including a rumor that McCain's wife was mentally ill and did they want a crazy women to be the first lady. The McCain's also have an adopted baby from Asia, I think the kid's Indian or something. Anyway, they put out flyers implying that McCain's wife had sex with a black man, hence the dark skinned baby! They have no shame.
push-polls
evil genius Lee Atwater & his butt boy Karl Rove started & perfected this crap. Rove's got some history in using mad tactics against his fellow GOPers as well as dems
This story actually came out a while ago and was in Vanity Faire or something. I remember posting about this on SS when I read it.
Believe it or not, but these kinds of dirty tricks were used by the Bush Campaign against McCain when Bush first ran for office so it's not just a Rep. vs. Dem. thing, but rather a Bush campaign thing.
Some dirty tricks Bush did against his fellow Republican McCain in the South Carolina primary, put flyers on cars parked at evangelical churches saying McCaine was pro-abortion when he is anti-abortion. Hiring telemarketers to call up Republicans and ask potential Republican voters if they would vote for McCain. If they said no, they hung up the phone, if they said yes to McCain they went down a list of bad things about him including a rumor that McCain's wife was mentally ill and did they want a crazy women to be the first lady. The McCain's also have an adopted baby from Asia, I think the kid's Indian or something. Anyway, they put out flyers implying that McCain's wife had sex with a black man, hence the dark skinned baby! They have no shame.
push-polls
evil genius Lee Atwater & his butt boy Karl Rove started & perfected this crap. Rove's got some history in using mad tactics against his fellow GOPers as well as dems
what about McCain sucking it up for Bush ?
McCain came all out for Bush and shunned Kerry last year simple because he agrees with Bush's politics; war, goverment interference in peoples private life and cutting of social programs.
evil genius Lee Atwater & his butt boy Karl Rove started & perfected this crap. Rove's got some history in using mad tactics against his fellow GOPers as well as dems
suspect doesn't begin to describe it... i'd call it criminal
dude goes lower than low to win and it always works for him... he's made it to the top
The phone banks were set up specifally for senior citizens who didn't have other ways to get to the polling booths on election day. This was a system that they had used before.
GG asks why didn't think ask for absentee ballots? Well since they'd used this pick up service before and were told that they could use it again on election day why would they then ask for absentee ballots????
2nd, what was the intent of the Republicans blocking these phone banks? To deny these older people the right to vote.
Studies show that the older you are the more likely you are to vote. People 65 and older are 75%+ likely to vote in elections. The Republicans knew this and tried to stop this group of older Democratic voters to get out and vote for president that day.
Hence, the Republicans denied these people the right to vote.
The phone banks were set up specifally for senior citizens who didn't have other ways to get to the polling booths on election day. This was a system that they had used before.
GG asks why didn't think ask for absentee ballots? Well since they'd used this pick up service before and were told that they could use it again on election day why would they then ask for absentee ballots????
GG is also denying their right to be part of the world. Lots of old people don't get out much. So knowing they can get a ride to go vote is a way for them to get the hell out of the house and feel involved in the world. If you plan get go vote and someone screws with your plannend ride that's wrong.
Computer programmer Clinton Curtis testified at the December 13th, 2004 Congressional hearing in Columbus, Ohio naming Republican Congressman Tom Feeney as the person who hired him to prepare vote-rigging software. The programmer claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District.
Clint Curtis, 46, claims that he built the software for Feeney in 2000 while working at a sofware design and engineering company in Oviedo, Florida (Feeney's home district).
Curtis, in his affidavit, says that as technical advisor and programmer at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) he was present at company meetings where Feeney was present "on at least a dozen occasions".
Feeney, who had run in 1994 as Jeb Bush's running-mate in his initial unsuccessful bid for Florida Governor, was serving as both corporate counsel and registered lobbyist for YEI during the period that Curtis worked at the company.
Feeney was also concurrently serving as a Florida state congressman while performing those services for YEI. Feeney would eventually become Speaker of the Florida House before being elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002. He is now a member of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee.
At an October 2000 meeting with Feeney, according to the affidavit and BRAD BLOG interviews with Curtis over the past three days, Feeney inquired whether the company could build a "vote fraud software prototype".
At least three YEI employees are said to have been present at that meeting; Curtis, company owner, Mrs. Li Woan Yang, and her executive secretary, Mike Cohen. Two other YEI employees may have come in and out at different points of the meeting according to Curtis.
Curtis says that Feeney "was very specific in the design and specifications required for this program."
"He detailed, in his own words, that; (a) the program needed to be touch-screen capable (b) the user should be able to trigger the program without any additional equipment (c) the programming to accomplish this needed to stay hidden even if the source code was inspected."
Though there was no problem with the first two requirements, Curtis explained to the Congressman that it would be "virtually impossible to hide such code written to change the voting results if anyone is able to review the uncompiled source code"
Nonetheless, he was asked at the meeting by Mrs. Yang to build the prototype anyway.
Curtis, "a life-long Republican" at the time, claims that it was his initial belief that Feeney's interest was in trying to stop Democrats from using "such a program to steal an election". Curtis had assumed that Feeney, "wanted to be able to detect and prevent that if it occurred."
Upon delivery of the software design and documentation on CD to Mrs. Yang, Curtis again explained to her that it would be impossible to hide routines created to manipulate the vote if anybody would be able to inspect the precompiled source code.
Mrs. Yang then told him, "You don???t understand, in order to get the contract we have to hide the manipulation in the source code. This program is needed to control the vote in South Florida."
Mrs. Yang then took the CD containing the software from Curtis, reportedly for later delivery to Feeney.
In other meetings with Feeny prior to the 2000 elections, it became clear to Curtis that Feeney had plans to suppress the vote in strong Democratic precincts. In the affidavit, Curtis claims that in those meetings Feeney had "bragged that he had already implemented 'exclusion lists' to reduce the 'black vote'." Feeney also mentioned that "proper placement of police patrols could further reduce the black vote by as much as 25%."
Curtis says that he submitted his resignation to YEI effective December 2000, but stayed on until they had found someone to replace him in February of 2001. He eventually became employed by the Florida Dept. of Transportation (FDOT) after leaving YEI.
Thank you for that. I don't have any doubts that the last election was stolen as well. I think the Bush administration and other wayward republicans are getting better at covering their tracks, though.
Thank you for that. I don't have any doubts that the last election was stolen as well. I think the Bush administration and other wayward republicans have perfected[/b] covering their tracks, though.
Just to state what everyone was already thinking -- gruntgravel is a TROLL who doesn't even BELIEVE the bullshit he writes, is shitting in the pool of discourse and should therefore
Comments
To Quote Grunt Gravel:
"Truthfully, do you think people who cannot see through this bullshit are capable of weighing in on the important issues of the day?"
If this does not shed light on your mental state and your view of superiority, then i don't know what does... The fact that you don't see this comment as you saying you are superior or thinking that some peopel should not vote is even sadder/scarier.
Never said they didn't have the right to vote or should be banned from voting in any way. I simply asked a question. Sorry, I do not feel bad if someone missed their chance to vote because they could not figure out when Election Day was or missed their "friendly" reminder call from party HQ.
Whatever...never said anyone shouldn't vote.
I am sorry that you feel so threatened by me. I did not mean to scare, or threaten you in anyway.
I have strong opinions and I am not afraid to state them. No one else on this board has ever mentioned any fear of stating their belifes because of me. As a matter of fact I have encouraged diversity of ideas on this board.
I simpley disagree with you that survival of the fittest is the best way to run our socity. I think survival of the fittest is our socity at it's worse. You seem to be saying it is our best. Or perhaps you don't really mean what you say.
Dan
Huh? What are you talking about, fear and threats? If you want to champion those in society that do not have the sense to figure out when Election Day is on there own, be my guest. I think most rational people can see my point. You really feel comfortable that people that don't have their shit together tight enough to know when to vote are casting votes that could decide the outcome of elections? I don't, just like I think single-issue votes are fucked. I don't think you're being intellectually honest.
You're some kind of joke alias right???
There's no way this shit could be for real...
This is some Minor Threat Screaming at a Wall shit! You cats only hear what you want to hear.
WOW! You flipped my post. Good job!
Just trying to understand your rational mind. Did you say that people are scared to post things I would disagree with? Since you are the only one to express this I thought perhaps it was you who were scared. I think most rational people can see my point.
See here I am confused by your rational mind again. You don't think someone who is told the wrong voting date should have the right to vote if they believe what they are told? I hope we can agree that is what you just said. You seem to be saying that only people who are well informed should have the right to vote. People supposedly like you and your granny? But you don't think that you are saying you are superior to these people? You don't think most rational people would think you are saying that?
Tell you what. You don't have to stand by anything you have said up till now. You can say, "I think all American citizens should have the right to vote". You can say, "I think people who are tricked out of their vote were wronged". You can say "I don't think I have more of a right to vote because I pay more attention to politics than others".
Just so you are clear where I stand, I believe that all American citizens should have the right to vote. I think that voting should be made as easy as possible. I think that even uninformed and mentally challenged people and senile people should have the right to vote. I believe that people who don't want to see them vote have an ideology or superiority.
Dan
Dan
Believe it or not, but these kinds of dirty tricks were used by the Bush Campaign against McCain when Bush first ran for office so it's not just a Rep. vs. Dem. thing, but rather a Bush campaign thing.
Some dirty tricks Bush did against his fellow Republican McCain in the South Carolina primary, put flyers on cars parked at evangelical churches saying McCaine was pro-abortion when he is anti-abortion. Hiring telemarketers to call up Republicans and ask potential Republican voters if they would vote for McCain. If they said no, they hung up the phone, if they said yes to McCain they went down a list of bad things about him including a rumor that McCain's wife was mentally ill and did they want a crazy women to be the first lady. The McCain's also have an adopted baby from Asia, I think the kid's Indian or something. Anyway, they put out flyers implying that McCain's wife had sex with a black man, hence the dark skinned baby! They have no shame.
push-polls
evil genius Lee Atwater & his butt boy Karl Rove started & perfected this crap.
Rove's got some history in using mad
against his fellow GOPers as well as dems
what about McCain sucking it up for Bush ?
McCain came all out for Bush and shunned Kerry last year simple because he agrees with Bush's politics; war, goverment interference in peoples private life and cutting of social programs.
Dan
suspect doesn't begin to describe it... i'd call it criminal
dude goes lower than low to win and it always works for him... he's made it to the top
The phone banks were set up specifally for senior citizens who didn't have other ways to get to the polling booths on election day. This was a system that they had used before.
GG asks why didn't think ask for absentee ballots? Well since they'd used this pick up service before and were told that they could use it again on election day why would they then ask for absentee ballots????
2nd, what was the intent of the Republicans blocking these phone banks? To deny these older people the right to vote.
Studies show that the older you are the more likely you are to vote. People 65 and older are 75%+ likely to vote in elections. The Republicans knew this and tried to stop this group of older Democratic voters to get out and vote for president that day.
Hence, the Republicans denied these people the right to vote.
Yeah, I think Rove's might've cheated to become head of the Young Republicans while he was in college in fact.
that was in 2002.
GG is also denying their right to be part of the world. Lots of old people don't get out much. So knowing they can get a ride to go vote is a way for them to get the hell out of the house and feel involved in the world. If you plan get go vote and someone screws with your plannend ride that's wrong.
Personally, I love songs about bearded clams and vibrator torture! I can also understand why some people don't.
Computer programmer Clinton Curtis testified at the December 13th, 2004 Congressional hearing in Columbus, Ohio naming Republican Congressman Tom Feeney as the person who hired him to prepare vote-rigging software.
The programmer claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District.
Clint Curtis, 46, claims that he built the software for Feeney in 2000 while working at a sofware design and engineering company in Oviedo, Florida (Feeney's home district).
Curtis, in his affidavit, says that as technical advisor and programmer at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) he was present at company meetings where Feeney was present "on at least a dozen occasions".
Feeney, who had run in 1994 as Jeb Bush's running-mate in his initial unsuccessful bid for Florida Governor, was serving as both corporate counsel and registered lobbyist for YEI during the period that Curtis worked at the company.
Feeney was also concurrently serving as a Florida state congressman while performing those services for YEI. Feeney would eventually become Speaker of the Florida House before being elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 2002. He is now a member of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee.
At an October 2000 meeting with Feeney, according to the affidavit and BRAD BLOG interviews with Curtis over the past three days, Feeney inquired whether the company could build a "vote fraud software prototype".
At least three YEI employees are said to have been present at that meeting; Curtis, company owner, Mrs. Li Woan Yang, and her executive secretary, Mike Cohen. Two other YEI employees may have come in and out at different points of the meeting according to Curtis.
Curtis says that Feeney "was very specific in the design and specifications required for this program."
"He detailed, in his own words, that; (a) the program needed to be touch-screen capable (b) the user should be able to trigger the program without any additional equipment (c) the programming to accomplish this needed to stay hidden even if the source code was inspected."
Though there was no problem with the first two requirements, Curtis explained to the Congressman that it would be "virtually impossible to hide such code written to change the voting results if anyone is able to review the uncompiled source code"
Nonetheless, he was asked at the meeting by Mrs. Yang to build the prototype anyway.
Curtis, "a life-long Republican" at the time, claims that it was his initial belief that Feeney's interest was in trying to stop Democrats from using "such a program to steal an election". Curtis had assumed that Feeney, "wanted to be able to detect and prevent that if it occurred."
Upon delivery of the software design and documentation on CD to Mrs. Yang, Curtis again explained to her that it would be impossible to hide routines created to manipulate the vote if anybody would be able to inspect the precompiled source code.
Mrs. Yang then told him, "You don???t understand, in order to get the contract we have to hide the manipulation in the source code. This program is needed to control the vote in South Florida."
Mrs. Yang then took the CD containing the software from Curtis, reportedly for later delivery to Feeney.
In other meetings with Feeny prior to the 2000 elections, it became clear to Curtis that Feeney had plans to suppress the vote in strong Democratic precincts. In the affidavit, Curtis claims that in those meetings Feeney had "bragged that he had already implemented 'exclusion lists' to reduce the 'black vote'." Feeney also mentioned that "proper placement of police patrols could further reduce the black vote by as much as 25%."
Curtis says that he submitted his resignation to YEI effective December 2000, but stayed on until they had found someone to replace him in February of 2001. He eventually became employed by the Florida Dept. of Transportation (FDOT) after leaving YEI.
Thank you for that. I don't have any doubts that the last election was stolen as well. I think the Bush administration and other wayward republicans are getting better at covering their tracks, though.
Sounds like Dan Rather needs to check into this story to give it some semblance of credibility.
Fardo.