Music critics worth a damn
SPlDEY
Vegas 3,375 Posts
Dear O-dub,
I'm having a problem, and maybe you can help?
I love listening to music (bigmuff.tumblr.com), I love talking with friends about music (soulstrut.com), but I truly can't stand reading some half-literate critics worthless opinion about music. I don't know if there is this 3rd party disconnect I'm feeling?
Where music reviews constantly infuriate me to no end.
Music writers, critics, and journalist are the absolute worst offenders of conceited disconnected writing. I love reading biographical information about musicians, but even then I usually get a better sense of the person hearing them speak. When I'm reading about an artist.. I honestly don't care about how the writer felt the impact of the artists music in 92 or how the writers jazz background makes it difficult to identify with said artist.
Do the writers not understand that the audience has opinions as well, and that critics personal opinions always conflicts with readers? Do the writers ever take into account how there personal bias effects a review? Do music journalists ever comprehend that a work of art should be judge based on it's own merit, and not in comparison to similar work by different artists?
Everyone has an opinion, and the INTERNET has truly made writers opinions so much more overtly worthless. I seriously would like to know what gives a critics opinion any validity? Knowledge of the genre? Writing ability? Prestigious publication?
I'll take an Informative publication (Wax Poetics) any day over an opinionated self-indulgent piece of shit not worth me glancing over:
Rolling Stone magazine
Sasha Frere-Jones
Pitchfork media
Fader magazine
I understand people earn a living doing this, but I really don't understand how and why?
Where are the Roger Eberts or Pauline Kaels of music journalism?
- diego
I'm having a problem, and maybe you can help?
I love listening to music (bigmuff.tumblr.com), I love talking with friends about music (soulstrut.com), but I truly can't stand reading some half-literate critics worthless opinion about music. I don't know if there is this 3rd party disconnect I'm feeling?
Where music reviews constantly infuriate me to no end.
Music writers, critics, and journalist are the absolute worst offenders of conceited disconnected writing. I love reading biographical information about musicians, but even then I usually get a better sense of the person hearing them speak. When I'm reading about an artist.. I honestly don't care about how the writer felt the impact of the artists music in 92 or how the writers jazz background makes it difficult to identify with said artist.
Do the writers not understand that the audience has opinions as well, and that critics personal opinions always conflicts with readers? Do the writers ever take into account how there personal bias effects a review? Do music journalists ever comprehend that a work of art should be judge based on it's own merit, and not in comparison to similar work by different artists?
Everyone has an opinion, and the INTERNET has truly made writers opinions so much more overtly worthless. I seriously would like to know what gives a critics opinion any validity? Knowledge of the genre? Writing ability? Prestigious publication?
I'll take an Informative publication (Wax Poetics) any day over an opinionated self-indulgent piece of shit not worth me glancing over:
Rolling Stone magazine
Sasha Frere-Jones
Pitchfork media
Fader magazine
I understand people earn a living doing this, but I really don't understand how and why?
Where are the Roger Eberts or Pauline Kaels of music journalism?
- diego
Comments
Thats my dude. He's been writing about music a looooong time, and quite well i would say.
Imagine if you will...A reputable publication like the New Yorker offers you a handsome salary for your opinion on music? What would that do to your taste over time? How many bands and labels would be constantly throwing themselves at you for just an ounce of your written word? The real question should be, How do you keep your head on straight as a music journalist?
There is a huge difference in reading real deal music criticism and music "journalism".
In fact, I know journalists who would never call themselves critics because they know that real academic criticism is on another level. Not to say its "better" but it requires different tools.
I used to read movie sites like:
http://www.aintitcool.com/
I like hearing about movie productions in process or the behind the scenes of a film. However, Aint it cool news, has obviously been bought out and it often becomes a big marketing tool for big budget films. The site is then dominated by Avatar, or whatever.. and It's truly sickening. Well.. I mean not NEARLY as sickening as the public toilet of the talkback section.
I really hope blogs are slowly destroying the influence of music publications. I'm constantly fascinated to hear about how other people heard about the music they like. Who in 2010 really holds the power of influence for the music zombies?
- spidey
After all, I find it rather ironic that you complain that music writers seem to always rely on "comparisons to similar work by different artists" when you end your query by asking, "Where are the Roger Eberts or Pauline Kaels of music journalism?"
Moreover, while I'm certainly no expert on Kael, I'm pretty sure she constantly and unfailingly did all the things you wish music journalists didn't, including viewing films through the lens of other films. Her seminal New Yorker essay on "Bonnie and Clyde" for example, opens by comparing it to "The Manchurian Candidate" and then, a few sentences later, compares the romantic relationship between the two leads as something akin to "It Happened One Night" (the essay is stunningly long and much of it is trying to frame the film's import via comparisons to other films. Because that's how criticism works, at least sometimes. It's about providing context.
None of this is to somehow "defend" the contemporary (or hell, historical) state of music journalism. I don't know any - readers and writers alike - who aren't frustrated by some aspect of it but I also know that there's no such thing as a consensus agreement over 1) what ideal music writing should look like or 2) who the "best" writers are. There are no sacred cows that huge factions haven't ripped to shreds, whether you're talking about the canon-writers such as Bangs or Christgau or Marcus, to say nothing of the more contemporary writers.
Don't like the music writing in Roling Stone or The Fader or Pitchfork? DON'T READ THEM. I mean, is someone forcing you to read SJF in the New Yorker, "Clockwork Orange"-style?
These days, I don't read much criticism myself but the writers I do like including Sasha (I enjoy his approach to musical description), and Ann Powers (a great "ideas" writer). Personally, I can genuinely say that one of the people whose writing I enjoy the most is our very own James. Wish he did it more often but the scarcity of his gems just make them shine all the more.
1) What year do you think this is? Hasn't this already happened? Like half a decade ago?
2) What is this "influence" you speak of? What kind of influence do you think print music publications actually have in 2010? On whom?
3) If aintitcoolnews.com is an example of the kind of writing you once held in regard, I have no idea what to tell you. Knowles might be a lot of things, but "good writing" was never one of his strengths.
If you want to know about new music check reviews that are as short as possible that contain as much basic detail as possible and as little opinion as possible.
Learn to decipher reviews through your lens. If the reviewer says, this string laden bog sounds like Bob Dylan meets Fela Kuti, don't take the reviewers word that it sucks or is great. Just ask yourself, would I like a string laden bogs that sound like Dylan meets Kuti?
it's a matter of personal opinion, but i like sacha frere jones' writing.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer.
1) Great! I'm glad people don't take these shitty reviewers seriously.
2) I honestly have No idea how much influence writers have over listeners in 2010. I am interested though. I love hearing about how people heard about there favorite bands.
3) Sorry if my Aint it cool news payola detour threw you off a bit.. With the exception of VERN, No, I have not read any writing I consider good from aintitcool.com. I will say that it is a somewhat influential movie site for movie fans.
- spidey
Fact that the first post in the thread mentions a blog, albeit one that makes money, as a terrible pillar of music journalism pretty much deads the argument of blogs not being right there with print media.
JUST DON'T LOOK! JUST DON'T LOOK! - simpsons
Personally, I do avoid reading these type of publications as much as possible. I was just hoping someone here could give me an insight to the significance behind all of the biased bad writing in music publications. Am I the only one seeing this?
Sorry for singling out Sasha Frere Jones. The few articles I've read from him were so cringe-worthy that I avoid his name like cancer. (Would love to see examples of good writing from him.)
The reason I singled you out OW is because I do respect what I have read from your writing/blogging style. Great topics, good recommendations, and highly informative.
I'm not really looking for the best music journalist, but I'd definitely be interested in any recommendations of other music publications, writers, bloggers, reviewers, and journalists that you respect/enjoy?
thanks,
- spidey
this isnt exactly advancing your argument either.
Thank you. I'll check it out!
- spidey
Isn't criticism - by the very nature of the craft - about expressing a particular bias? Even journalism - through the parts of a story it includes and excludes - is biased as well, albeit less nakedly Nonetheless, I have no idea how one can conceive of any form of writing that lacks bias. There is no "objectivity".
There is, however, "good writing" and "bad writing" but again, those are subjective terms. What is it about Sasha's writing that you think are "bad"? His diction? The way he builds an argument? The narrative approach he takes in reporting on a story? If you could be more clear as to what you find so offensive about his writing as to need to "avoid it like the plague" (it's contagiously bad?), at least I could get a better sense of what you're looking for in "good" music criticism.
Note: I happen to like Sasha's writing but I don't feel the need to passionately defend it on his behalf. But when people complain about someone's writing, more times than not, what they're really complaining about is someone's OPINION rather than how they state it. And that's not a complaint about craft, that's a complaint about "this dude doesn't validate my tastes."
BTW, I would second the recommendation on that Carl Wilson's book. Really thoughtful and provocative.
It's ridiculous. It's like saying a saliva-free blowjob would be the ideal blowjob.
No no.. I'm saying
Dear so and so are there any critics out there worth a damn?
- spidey
"I don't listen to what art critics say. I don't know anybody who needs a critic to find out what art is. "
- Jean-Michel Basquiat
dude
If this quote holds weight, why do you care about music criticism at all, good, bad or otherwise?
- d
the most important thing i care about from music writers would be how much they actually keep up with the genre that they are reviewing. for example i really like to read noz, because i know he listens to so much more rap than i do, and he can provide the proper context for new releases. pitchfork's credibility is fine with me as far as indie/rock music goes. there is no all-encompassing critic worth a damn. it is sort of funny that there arent music critics on the level of ebert, etc. maybe lester bangs i guess. probably a result of music tastemaking (radio) being tainted by payola and marketing.
Why even have Recommandations threads if crtiques are so invalid?
Why even talk about music?
Why even talk?
he's a nice guy though.
this.
There isn't a line anymore...blogs give a voice on an equal playing field with that of legit critics...and that's a shame because legit critics have been turned into glorified bloggers and merely cheerlead about stuff they like just like Becky Indierock and her blog. I had this discussion with a local critic and I asked why are their no negative reviews anymore, all there is is lots of press of stuff the critics like. Their answer was along the lines of that there is no reason to give press to stuff they didn't like. I find this to be complete bullshit...why should I respect your opinion of what you think is good when you won't tell me what is bad and why it is bad? I know this experience is just limited to local stuff around here, but it does a diservice to the bands that the critic doesn't like....they get no press, when I know a band would rather have a bad review and having people know they exsist rather than being ignored. Simply put, a lot of critics are passive aggressive pussies who are afraid of being a "hater" that ignore artists instead of being able to articulate their thoughts and analysis of music that perhaps aren't their cup of tea or play music that the reviewer doesn't understand...they simply just cheerlead some shit they have already cheered. Good Music critics are a dying breed and perhaps they just need to die...they have no unique platform anymore and the blogs drown them out with their white noise of uninformed banality.
With epigrams.
Ebert had a nationally syndicated television show FOR TWENTY YEARS.
Name any other arts critic - music, visual art, dance, drama, books, etc. who had that kind of platform.
WHY ARE WE EVEN COMPARING MOVIE AND MUSIC CRITICS?