Yeah this was a great read, reminded me of a lot of things I loved and hated about that time in NY. I only went to the Tunnel once back in the heyday, half the time I was DJing my own smalI Sunday night gig. Plus I was (as Cypha also admits) way too snobby about supporting "underground and independent" hip-hop. There was a real dividing line that you were one side or the other of back around 97-98-99, it was like one side shopped at Fat Beats or Sandbox Automatic and the other at Rock & Soul or Beat Street.
See: I know Flex does that on the radio but radio is different. You can get away with that on the radio. But in a club, I would think it'd be a dicier proposition but maybe the Tunnel was good with that.
BTW: the "shoulder" anecdotes were some of my favorites.
I'm not sure where you're coming from with the "club" thing, Mecca was Flex's house, if it was a hot record he could go on it forever if he wanted. And DJs have been doing that since forever, it's not unique to Flex or to The Tunnel..
Take this for what it is but I've never heard a club DJ cut up an intro for 20 minutes or play the same song for nearly an hour. Ever. But my experience with hip-hop club is 1990s Bay Area-centric and it could be that DJs there - especially coming out of a quick-mix aesthetic that dominated the 1980s - worked differently. Keep in mind too - I never heard radio DJs in Cali doing shit like I heard (via tapes) Pete Rock doing on WBLS, just going back and forth over the same song for more than a few minutes.
But regardless, it made "sense" to me that you could do that on the radio. You don't have a crowd giving you feedback directly (except via phone calls) so you can indulge what what you want to do so long as the MD or PD isn't hammering at you. But in a club, it's not like you have to change songs every 30 seconds but I don't intuitively get how a crowd is going to hang with you for 45 minutes of looping the same joint over and over.
Again, I'm not saying it's the "wrong" thing to do. If it worked in Tunnel, cool. It's just utterly outside the realm of my DJ experience.
All that said, this is a really fascinating perspective.
Yeah. I look forward to more stuff like this. God knows we've done the '80s and "golden era 90s" to death (I'm not complaining, mind you) but it'd be good to hear more anecdotes like this for an era that feels both close yet far.
See: I know Flex does that on the radio but radio is different. You can get away with that on the radio. But in a club, I would think it'd be a dicier proposition but maybe the Tunnel was good with that.
BTW: the "shoulder" anecdotes were some of my favorites.
I'm not sure where you're coming from with the "club" thing, Mecca was Flex's house, if it was a hot record he could go on it forever if he wanted. And DJs have been doing that since forever, it's not unique to Flex or to The Tunnel..
Take this for what it is but I've never heard a club DJ cut up an intro for 20 minutes or play the same song for nearly an hour. Ever. But my experience with hip-hop club is 1990s Bay Area-centric and it could be that DJs there - especially coming out of a quick-mix aesthetic that dominated the 1980s - worked differently.
There isn't a club or night I can think of in the Bay that was even remotely the same as the clubs in NYC at the time, so I think you're probably comparing apples and oranges.
This is kind of Flex's patented style, and I think Cipha is exaggerating a bit as far as the time duration, but DJs have been doubling up and extending intros since forever, it's not a NY- or even hip-hop- centric thing.
Just so we're clear: it's not "whether DJs are cutting back and forth on intros." Shit, I do this *all the time*. But I don't do it for *20 minutes*. That's the key point.
Hence, if you look at my original question, i was questioning the *duration* not the *style*. Of course DJs cut back and forth and extend and remix on the fly. But they don't usually do it for half an hour on a single song. That's why I was asking if Cipha might be inflating the time in his memory just because it sounds more dramatic to suggest that Flex was so in love with a single that he'd be rubbing on two 12"s (oh my) for that long.
Flex is really the only dude I can think of who can cut a record back and forth for a prolonged period of time and still hold the listener's attention. But said prolonged record-cutting is typically accompanied by excessive yelling on the mic of the "Where's Brooklyn at" variety that only Flex can do.*
I am trying to picture the one O-Dub flipping doubles of a latin records, yelling "Where's Silverlake at!"
Flex is really the only dude I can think of who can cut a record back and forth for a prolonged period of time and still hold the listener's attention. But said prolonged record-cutting is typically accompanied by excessive yelling on the mic of the "Where's Brooklyn at" variety that only Flex can do.*
I am trying to picture the one O-Dub flipping doubles of a latin records, yelling "Where's Silverlake at!"
Never actually spun in Silverlake but I have a gig now in Cypress Park. "Where Cypress at!" actually sounds decent. Maybe I can get a bomb button installed.
Since everyone is hating on Memphis Bleek I'll put myself out there and say I liked a couple of his songs: Mind Right (though I was never in love with the beat) and this one especially:
Yes, the rest of his output was highly disappointing...
So, who's heard that Jeru on the 10 Crack Commandments beat?
Flex is really the only dude I can think of who can cut a record back and forth for a prolonged period of time and still hold the listener's attention. But said prolonged record-cutting is typically accompanied by excessive yelling on the mic of the "Where's Brooklyn at" variety that only Flex can do.*
I am trying to picture the one O-Dub flipping doubles of a latin records, yelling "Where's Silverlake at!"
Never actually spun in Silverlake but I have a gig now in Cypress Park. "Where Cypress at!" actually sounds decent. Maybe I can get a bomb button installed.
Be sure to blast off with the Funk Flex driving shoe
Agree with a lot of comments in here, even regarding Mr. Smith being LL's last listenable album. Esp agree with DMX wtf'ing. I've personally always found him to be one of the corniest MCs to blow up like that. Consistently crying on stage and barking is lame --- and he did that same thing that Silkk the Shocker did where he'd accent the middle of his lines and fade out at the end, which bothered the crap out of me, and if when he wasn't doing that, he'd be yelling. "It's Dark and Hell Is Hot"? Thanks a lot Earl, but shut it down.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I don't think I own a single DMX record, but I actually love him...the crying, the barking, the mumbling, all of it.
You can still run "Get At Me Dog" and murder shit.
X is on the new Busta remix!
That's not to say I hated absolutely everything he did -- I think Money, Cash, Hoes is one the best records of that era, def one of the best on that list. Also liked the song he rhymed on Easin' In -- think because for once it didn't sound like he was taking himself so damn seriously. I guess 4,3,2,1 was cool too - but other than that, ya, shut it off.
Wait -- wasn't he on that track that sampled Lyn Christopher post Smut Peddlers?
You can still run "Get At Me Dog" and murder shit.
X is on the new Busta remix!
X was also a really great live performer. His material was ideal w/ a crowd - all the call & response on the choruses & whatnot. Saw him at the Apollo when he was still one of the opening acts on the Survival of the Illest tour (he wound up the headliner by the tour's end) & he was incredible. It takes a lot of charisma & energy to be able to captivate an audience like that.
About #72, "2nd Round KO": Cipha says: "The part that everyone felt when he really shut down LL was when he said, 'The greatest rapper of all time died on March 9th.' And that was the perfect time to drop a Biggie record. Flex would bring that part back and play different Biggie records.
Wouldn't have been surprised if he followed that with "and, because, ya know, the whole '...eat a ni**as ass like me'
line."
X was also a really great live performer. His material was ideal w/ a crowd - all the call & response on the choruses & whatnot. Saw him at the Apollo when he was still one of the opening acts on the Survival of the Illest tour (he wound up the headliner by the tour's end) & he was incredible. It takes a lot of charisma & energy to be able to captivate an audience like that.
Despite the fact that I find his music totally unengaging, I'm kind of feeling DMX as a performance artist--especially that one performance that involved trying to run down a pedestrian with a stolen truck and then claiming to be an FBI agent.
Comments
At one point people in New York so loved Jay that they actually pretended to be feeling his only begotten son.
Baffling to me too when I first moved here.
Probably
As huge as these records were, I also think they mark New York rap's loss of identity which led to its current near total irrelevance
The beginning of the end for NY.
Take this for what it is but I've never heard a club DJ cut up an intro for 20 minutes or play the same song for nearly an hour. Ever. But my experience with hip-hop club is 1990s Bay Area-centric and it could be that DJs there - especially coming out of a quick-mix aesthetic that dominated the 1980s - worked differently. Keep in mind too - I never heard radio DJs in Cali doing shit like I heard (via tapes) Pete Rock doing on WBLS, just going back and forth over the same song for more than a few minutes.
But regardless, it made "sense" to me that you could do that on the radio. You don't have a crowd giving you feedback directly (except via phone calls) so you can indulge what what you want to do so long as the MD or PD isn't hammering at you. But in a club, it's not like you have to change songs every 30 seconds but I don't intuitively get how a crowd is going to hang with you for 45 minutes of looping the same joint over and over.
Again, I'm not saying it's the "wrong" thing to do. If it worked in Tunnel, cool. It's just utterly outside the realm of my DJ experience.
Yeah. I look forward to more stuff like this. God knows we've done the '80s and "golden era 90s" to death (I'm not complaining, mind you) but it'd be good to hear more anecdotes like this for an era that feels both close yet far.
There isn't a club or night I can think of in the Bay that was even remotely the same as the clubs in NYC at the time, so I think you're probably comparing apples and oranges.
This is kind of Flex's patented style, and I think Cipha is exaggerating a bit as far as the time duration, but DJs have been doubling up and extending intros since forever, it's not a NY- or even hip-hop- centric thing.
Hence, if you look at my original question, i was questioning the *duration* not the *style*. Of course DJs cut back and forth and extend and remix on the fly. But they don't usually do it for half an hour on a single song. That's why I was asking if Cipha might be inflating the time in his memory just because it sounds more dramatic to suggest that Flex was so in love with a single that he'd be rubbing on two 12"s (oh my) for that long.
I am trying to picture the one O-Dub flipping doubles of a latin records, yelling "Where's Silverlake at!"
Will the one deej join me in riding for Mr. Smith-era LL including, without limitation, "Doin' It"?
Never actually spun in Silverlake but I have a gig now in Cypress Park. "Where Cypress at!" actually sounds decent. Maybe I can get a bomb button installed.
Yes, the rest of his output was highly disappointing...
So, who's heard that Jeru on the 10 Crack Commandments beat?
Be sure to blast off with the Funk Flex driving shoe
This surprises and disappoints me.
also the Jay-Z live at the tunnel youtubes are sick.
You can still run "Get At Me Dog" and murder shit.
X is on the new Busta remix!
That's not to say I hated absolutely everything he did -- I think Money, Cash, Hoes is one the best records of that era, def one of the best on that list. Also liked the song he rhymed on Easin' In -- think because for once it didn't sound like he was taking himself so damn seriously. I guess 4,3,2,1 was cool too - but other than that, ya, shut it off.
Wait -- wasn't he on that track that sampled Lyn Christopher post Smut Peddlers?
You know you ride for Keep On Keepin On.
X was also a really great live performer. His material was ideal w/ a crowd - all the call & response on the choruses & whatnot. Saw him at the Apollo when he was still one of the opening acts on the Survival of the Illest tour (he wound up the headliner by the tour's end) & he was incredible. It takes a lot of charisma & energy to be able to captivate an audience like that.
Cipha says: "The part that everyone felt when he really shut down LL was when he said, 'The greatest rapper of all time died on March 9th.' And that was the perfect time to drop a Biggie record. Flex would bring that part back and play different Biggie records.
Wouldn't have been surprised if he followed that with "and, because, ya know, the whole '...eat a ni**as ass like me'
line."
apparently a lot of tears too.