Despite the fact that I find his music totally unengaging, I'm kind of feeling DMX as a performance artist--especially that one performance that involved trying to run down a pedestrian with a stolen truck and then claiming to be an FBI agent.
I also liked the interview where he excoriated L.A. Reid for "floating around" the Def Jam offices in slippers and a kaftan; "I'm not even that comfortable in my own home!"
Reminds me of a Tunnel story Cipha Sounds told on Juan Epstein. One night while opening for Flex, a guy from Queensbridge started heckling him to play something from QB. After a while he put on Affirmative Action off the It Was Written LP. Since it wasn't a 12" the sound was real low, and apparently the dude kept yelling at him to turn it up. Ciph turned up all his gains and master but it was still too low, so the guy then started throwing ice cubes at him from his drink.
Reminds me of a Tunnel story Cipha Sounds told on Juan Epstein. One night he was playing Affirmative Action off the It Was Written LP. Since it wasn't a 12" the sound was real low, and apparently a guy from Queensbridge was getting mad that it wouldn't play louder. Ciph turned up all his gains and master but it was still too low, so this guy started cursing him out and throwing ice cubes at him from his drink.
Reminds me of a Tunnel story Cipha Sounds told on Juan Epstein. One night he was playing Affirmative Action off the It Was Written LP. Since it wasn't a 12" the sound was real low, and apparently a guy from Queensbridge was getting mad that it wouldn't play louder. Ciph turned up all his gains and master but it was still too low, so this guy started cursing him out and throwing ice cubes at him from his drink.
So, who's heard that Jeru on the 10 Crack Commandments beat?
I kind of remember it, if I rooted around hard enough I could probably find it on a tape in the basement. I think I have one show where she had KRS up doing the 5 at 9 with her, I remember getting a good freestyle from that. She had a few different promos though, and if I remember correct (which I usually dont) she'd switch them up a lot.
All that said, this is a really fascinating perspective.
Yeah. I look forward to more stuff like this. God knows we've done the '80s and "golden era 90s" to death (I'm not complaining, mind you) but it'd be good to hear more anecdotes like this for an era that feels both close yet far.
Listening to these tracks, it's amazing how you can literally peg hip hop turning the corner right at 97, '98. A lot less samples, way more "poppy". I'm thinking its the Jermaine Dupri-Puff Daddy(solo) effect. Most of the shit from that point on just feels shiny and polished.
I've always wondered when hip hop went from old style to hip pop and this collection seems to nail it down.
this + cmr + no limit = high school. biggest shit ever. even cru -- wtf is wrong w/ pronto?? this stuff was the last time ny rap was worth anything & yall are shitting on it, makes no damn sense.
hating on a single memph bleek track or whatever is the equivalent of being like "lol at disco fans liking cher songs!!" like stfu & just try to deny 'take me home' u fake ass johnny come lately disco / tunnel rap fan
Reminds me of a Tunnel story Cipha Sounds told on Juan Epstein. One night he was playing Affirmative Action off the It Was Written LP. Since it wasn't a 12" the sound was real low, and apparently a guy from Queensbridge was getting mad that it wouldn't play louder. Ciph turned up all his gains and master but it was still too low, so this guy started cursing him out and throwing ice cubes at him from his drink.
If only Serato had been around then! ;)
on that note, someone made a zip file of all this:
hating on a single memph bleek track or whatever is the equivalent of being like "lol at disco fans liking cher songs!!" like stfu & just try to deny 'take me home' u fake ass johnny come lately disco / tunnel rap fan
I prefer Young Hearts Run Free. I deny Take Me Home. Lol @ you.
True. He is the undisputed king of shoe-horning cheesy disco into music discussions. I marvel at his willingness to champion such fetid trash in the absolute certainty that it's popularity represents un-arguable cultural importance, especially when based on such marginal, avante-garde and highly undervalued facets of music as chart sales and mainstream exposure. But by far the most impressive part is that I am never sure if he is serious.
I'll listen to it. Sure there will be plenty of tracks I'll like, and some I'll remember liking, some I'll wonder what the hell I was thinking.
What's with the posts that react to any opinion that deviates from the one particular consensus as 'bullshit'?
The only consensus I can make out, is that this was the last hurrah of NY rap... now if that's accepted, then surely it follows that for some, what it became will equal hip-pop, for others it will have changed for something else.
Deej's assertion that nobody would have the nerve to hate on a certain cannon of disco, or even Memphis Bleek, is quite funny too. For me, that Cher track is a total cheese-fest. Many times I've found myself in a club, dancing to something that I don't particularly like. To assume that because not everybody, while drunk, with friends or a girl, holds the same standards that they would in sober conversation or flipping through racks in a record shop, doesn't mean that cheese is therefor universally acknowledged as brilliant.
People are just good at holding conradictory ideas, such as being able to enjoy dancing in a club to music they fully admit to being a load of cr*p, rather than being a killjoy; Whut? Missing Linx used this sample first! Dre is a biter, and I'm outta here!
Listening to these tracks, it's amazing how you can literally peg hip hop turning the corner right at 97, '98. A lot less samples, way more "poppy". I'm thinking its the Jermaine Dupri-Puff Daddy(solo) effect. Most of the shit from that point on just feels shiny and polished.
I've always wondered when hip hop went from old style to hip pop and this collection seems to nail it down.
I concur - a lot of this stuff really is were the ny sound took the wrong turn - with the puffy / r&b hook / scream hop and bark rap ruf ryder era pretty much deading an age when most ny rap was, on the whole, still good - twas mostly downhill from here on out...
I'd rather hear from Batmon an argument that either '97-'98 doesn't represent a sea change (because, I dunno, maybe it happened at an earlier date), or if he agrees that things changed, but disagrees that NY rap changed for hip-pop, what exactly it did change to.
I agree with the post that it was about this time that there became a real split between the more commercial (read: successful) rap and the 'keeping it real/underground' (backpacker/Rawkus etc) sounds, and there soon followed club nights where you would either here one or the other, but not both.
Dudes are conveniently forgetting a lot of terrible East Coast rap trends, and not doing the actual evolution of styles justice.
I was working a lot of these records that Cipha is kind of chuckling about up at Sandbox circa 1996-97. The stuff that was considered "true school" "underground" or whatever almost universally aged poorly and wasn't even well-received back then. We used to go down to Beat Street, Rock & Soul, Fat Beats and so on, and buy up their backstock at cost, they couldn't give the records away. And they got shipped out to Middle America, Europe, Japan. They really sucked that bad, even then. Nobody was feeling that shit. The good shit from that scene was completely overshadowed by the average, which was legion.
Puffy and the Shiny Suits was a reaction to the "AAHHHH! I'M BUGGING! I'M FLIPPING! I'M CRAZY!" nonsense. That shit was terrible! Good riddance! DMX and The Lox were a reaction back to the shiny shit. The underground this whole time was a whole lot of average with a couple of shining stars (Mos Def, MF Doom for instance) who obviously would persevere and mature. TBH far more interesting shit was happening out west and down south, which has since been born out by history.
I don't buy the argument that the east coast fell off *at this time*. It happened way earlier, if you're talking about Real Hip Hop. I honestly like a lot of the Tunnel Banga schitt because they're just fun records, but if you're talking about some "1988? yo that was my favorite shit god" nonsense that shit died when they moved the Rock Steady Festival downtown.
Well, that and "Reasonable Doubt". Jay-Z pretty much killed trad-NY-rap dead.
the "AAHHHH! I'M BUGGING! I'M FLIPPING! I'M CRAZY!" nonsense. That shit was terrible! Good riddance!
Approximately 20% of SoulStrut views that as the golden age to end all golden ages.
I don't buy the argument that the east coast fell off *at this time*. It happened way earlier, if you're talking about Real Hip Hop. I honestly like a lot of the Tunnel Banga schitt because they're just fun records, but if you're talking about some "1988? yo that was my favorite shit god" nonsense that shit died when they moved the Rock Steady Festival downtown.
I don't think that at all--I like a lot of those records and never meant to imply a qualitative judgment about them as a whole. Others are really embarrassing examples of pandering though, IMO--"Down Bottom"? Living in Atlanta that just seemed pathetically corny to me at the time. My point was just that in taking a less insular approach--which was highly successful in the short term--New York moved away from having a distinct regional identity. Only in retrospect does it become apparent as a first step in a trend that went too far and is ultimately really depressing. Some scenes and cities have managed to preserve a regional identity while reaching a larger audience but I think the place New York is in now is the worst of both worlds: music that lacks an identity that barely anybody is even checking for. I don't think anybody anywhere else hears New York rap anymore and thinks "Damn, that's what's up--I wish I lived in a place I could rep like that."
It was three hacks trying to make a record with the rather transparent concept of Tribe Called Snoop?
Everything about that group was corny as hell. Fake Q-tip. Fake ODB. I regard them as that era's heirs to the most egregiously derivative I'M BUGGIN'! I'M FLIPPIN'! rappers that Jonny referred to.
Comments
The 5th element of hip-hop!
I also liked the interview where he excoriated L.A. Reid for "floating around" the Def Jam offices in slippers and a kaftan; "I'm not even that comfortable in my own home!"
heheh, touche
If only Serato had been around then! ;)
lol.
I kind of remember it, if I rooted around hard enough I could probably find it on a tape in the basement. I think I have one show where she had KRS up doing the 5 at 9 with her, I remember getting a good freestyle from that. She had a few different promos though, and if I remember correct (which I usually dont) she'd switch them up a lot.
Listening to these tracks, it's amazing how you can literally peg hip hop turning the corner right at 97, '98. A lot less samples, way more "poppy". I'm thinking its the Jermaine Dupri-Puff Daddy(solo) effect. Most of the shit from that point on just feels shiny and polished.
I've always wondered when hip hop went from old style to hip pop and this collection seems to nail it down.
BULLSHIT
on that note, someone made a zip file of all this:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EO5DAMW5
I prefer Young Hearts Run Free. I deny Take Me Home. Lol @ you.
Well that was easy.
True. He is the undisputed king of shoe-horning cheesy disco into music discussions. I marvel at his willingness to champion such fetid trash in the absolute certainty that it's popularity represents un-arguable cultural importance, especially when based on such marginal, avante-garde and highly undervalued facets of music as chart sales and mainstream exposure. But by far the most impressive part is that I am never sure if he is serious.
For that alone, deej wins.
He usually does, if only by attrition
I certainly hope Oliver steps up to defend his honor and that of his favorite jazz-sampling terd.
What's with the posts that react to any opinion that deviates from the one particular consensus as 'bullshit'?
The only consensus I can make out, is that this was the last hurrah of NY rap... now if that's accepted, then surely it follows that for some, what it became will equal hip-pop, for others it will have changed for something else.
Deej's assertion that nobody would have the nerve to hate on a certain cannon of disco, or even Memphis Bleek, is quite funny too. For me, that Cher track is a total cheese-fest. Many times I've found myself in a club, dancing to something that I don't particularly like. To assume that because not everybody, while drunk, with friends or a girl, holds the same standards that they would in sober conversation or flipping through racks in a record shop, doesn't mean that cheese is therefor universally acknowledged as brilliant.
People are just good at holding conradictory ideas, such as being able to enjoy dancing in a club to music they fully admit to being a load of cr*p, rather than being a killjoy; Whut? Missing Linx used this sample first! Dre is a biter, and I'm outta here!
I concur - a lot of this stuff really is were the ny sound took the wrong turn - with the puffy / r&b hook / scream hop and bark rap ruf ryder era pretty much deading an age when most ny rap was, on the whole, still good - twas mostly downhill from here on out...
That's called "SoulStrut."
I'd rather hear from Batmon an argument that either '97-'98 doesn't represent a sea change (because, I dunno, maybe it happened at an earlier date), or if he agrees that things changed, but disagrees that NY rap changed for hip-pop, what exactly it did change to.
I agree with the post that it was about this time that there became a real split between the more commercial (read: successful) rap and the 'keeping it real/underground' (backpacker/Rawkus etc) sounds, and there soon followed club nights where you would either here one or the other, but not both.
I was working a lot of these records that Cipha is kind of chuckling about up at Sandbox circa 1996-97. The stuff that was considered "true school" "underground" or whatever almost universally aged poorly and wasn't even well-received back then. We used to go down to Beat Street, Rock & Soul, Fat Beats and so on, and buy up their backstock at cost, they couldn't give the records away. And they got shipped out to Middle America, Europe, Japan. They really sucked that bad, even then. Nobody was feeling that shit. The good shit from that scene was completely overshadowed by the average, which was legion.
Puffy and the Shiny Suits was a reaction to the "AAHHHH! I'M BUGGING! I'M FLIPPING! I'M CRAZY!" nonsense. That shit was terrible! Good riddance! DMX and The Lox were a reaction back to the shiny shit. The underground this whole time was a whole lot of average with a couple of shining stars (Mos Def, MF Doom for instance) who obviously would persevere and mature. TBH far more interesting shit was happening out west and down south, which has since been born out by history.
I don't buy the argument that the east coast fell off *at this time*. It happened way earlier, if you're talking about Real Hip Hop. I honestly like a lot of the Tunnel Banga schitt because they're just fun records, but if you're talking about some "1988? yo that was my favorite shit god" nonsense that shit died when they moved the Rock Steady Festival downtown.
Well, that and "Reasonable Doubt". Jay-Z pretty much killed trad-NY-rap dead.
Approximately 20% of SoulStrut views that as the golden age to end all golden ages.
I don't think that at all--I like a lot of those records and never meant to imply a qualitative judgment about them as a whole. Others are really embarrassing examples of pandering though, IMO--"Down Bottom"? Living in Atlanta that just seemed pathetically corny to me at the time. My point was just that in taking a less insular approach--which was highly successful in the short term--New York moved away from having a distinct regional identity. Only in retrospect does it become apparent as a first step in a trend that went too far and is ultimately really depressing. Some scenes and cities have managed to preserve a regional identity while reaching a larger audience but I think the place New York is in now is the worst of both worlds: music that lacks an identity that barely anybody is even checking for. I don't think anybody anywhere else hears New York rap anymore and thinks "Damn, that's what's up--I wish I lived in a place I could rep like that."
It was three hacks trying to make a record with the rather transparent concept of Tribe Called Snoop?
Everything about that group was corny as hell. Fake Q-tip. Fake ODB. I regard them as that era's heirs to the most egregiously derivative I'M BUGGIN'! I'M FLIPPIN'! rappers that Jonny referred to.