Let me get this straight. If I'm about to drive through an intersection (green light, at 35 mph speed limit) and someone walks out into the crosswalk ignoring the don't walk sign and they are hit by me. It is my responsibility?
Accountability is all about who has the most power....your car could kill this poor dude crossing the street so YOU have to be accountable, not him......
that is inaccurate.
i hate to get at all legal but in common law countries (usa, can., uk, etc) drivers owe a duty to take care to other drivers on the road and to pedestrians. the standard one must live up to is that of the reasonable driver. if one is being careful and driving "reasonably" they are not automatically at fault if a pedestrian unforeseeably jumps out of nowhere in front of their car...
What happened to "there is no excuse for a man hitting a woman". ?
The cop should be fired and arrested like any "regular" man would....if he couldn't restrain her, he shouldn't be a police officer...I'd excuse tasing the chick, but punching her in the grill is unacceptable
No, she didn???t have it coming. Him being a police officer doesn???t give him the right to get physical almost immediately with an unarmed person who is not causing a danger to anyone.
Lots of assholes and no thinkers in this situation.
She is a teenager - apparently raised by wolves - and he is an adult police officer - hopefully trained in using his head, not losing control of a relatively calm situation and not clocking teenagers as first resort.
Who are we expecting to make the better judgement call?
[...]
I???ll be the asshole non-thinker on this one and say he should have never put his hands on her. He was not in danger, no one else was in danger. He asked her to stop once, she didn???t and he went for it right away.
You want to escalate a jaywalking incident? Then call in back up. Follow her. Write citations for all the other people who were also jaywalking.
I am not saying the girls acted right, but he definitely acted more wrong.
i obviously completely disagree with your assessment.
you expect the police to simply walk away when they are in the course of making an arrest or otherwise carrying out their duties because a suspect may physically resist? on its face, that makes zero sense. who is the one who is escalating the situation in this case anyhow?
i am no expert on police use of force (and there will be an inquiry) but why do you assume he lost control or overreacted? he was scuffling with 2 people who could have taken his pistol away from him or caused some other harm. while i can't x-ray a person;s soul he seems like the most calm person on the scene. those two girls are hysterical and out of control and the crowd is taunting him, yet he seemingly maintains composure.
if he had shot her, i think your position would have some merit but he simply punched her.
The scuffle was initiated by him when he grabbed her. The second person got involved later. My assessment would have been different if both girls were physical with him right away, compromising safety for the reasons you stated.
Is a citation the equivalent of an arrest in Washington? Some places you get them for not having a dog on a leash, right?
I am not really in favourof waiting for someone to get shot before conduct is addressed.
The scuffle was initiated by him when he grabbed her. The second person got involved later. My assessment would have been different if both girls were physical with him right away, compromising safety for the reasons you stated.
Is a citation the equivalent of an arrest in Washington? Some places you get them for not having a dog on a leash, right?
I am not really in favourof waiting for someone to get shot before conduct is addressed.
We'll disagree, that's fine.
whatever happens before the tape rolls is something i can;t speak to. all i see is an officer trying to effect an arrest and someone physically trying to interfere with that process which is a crime.
at the point he was scuffling with two people he and bystanders would have been exposed to the possibility of one of the assailants taking the gun off of him and possibly even using it.
a certain degree of danger was being posed to the officer and he had to make a split second call on what to do.
from the little i know, i'd say he acted damn reasonably but we should bump this thread after the results of the inquiry are in to see how it shakes out...
"piggery isn;t confined to the pigs" (frederick wiseman speaking on his doc "law and order")
For what it's worth, this is a pretty cool book I read recently that goes into some of the ways in which jaywalking and pedestrian overflow is often intentionally planned into the design of urban streets/sidewalks, and how that can often have a positive impact on overall safety.
The scuffle was initiated by him when he grabbed her.
so he should have followed her helplessly as she walked away and ignored him? when a police officer asks you to stop, you are so supposed to. i have issue with him punching her in the face, but i have no issue with him grabbing her by the arm. these girls escalated the whole shit to a point that the officer didnt know what to deal with.
what fuckin world they live in??? who the fuck raised them??? most parents i know, white and black, tell their kids over and over to keep your hands where cops can see them when you get pulled over. i think a corrollary of this is "dont push an officer" and "dont pull a water gun out your jacket when cops are around". this is some basic, dont be a dumbass life knowledge.
i have extremely little tolerance for police brutality and abuse of their authority, but when faced with assholes like that i get a little more understanding. when the phillies won the world series, the crowd was bugging the fuck out (understandably), but then they started throwing trashcans through storefront windows and shit. assholes! if given a billy club, i would have beat those people down myself.
the people egging those girls on should all be ashamed of themselves. besides the videotaper....i'mall for these things getting filmed
i'm actually all for jay walking and will continue to do so.
but if aprehnded by a cop, i will stop and suffer the consequences...which if i am cooperative and quiet will probably be a warning with no fine, which i am sure would have been the case to those asshole ass girls
For what it's worth, this is a pretty cool book I read recently that goes into some of the ways in which jaywalking and pedestrian overflow is often intentionally planned into the design of urban streets/sidewalks, and how that can often have a positive impact on overall safety.
yeah, i really wanna read that. note that Vanderbilt is the fellow that wrote the article odub linked to.
b/w
i jaywalk constantly, and in fact, as often as possible i walk in the street instead of the sidewalk. people are so used to driving with people drinking in the middle of the street all the time in new orleans that no one really cares.
Here in Amsterdam i can ride my bike down the wrong way of a one way street at night, stoned, talking on my phone, carrying 3 kids and a shopping bag, not wearing a helmet, and as long as i have my lights on and im not drunk its the drivers fault if anything happens.
there's not an adult member of this board who would opt for the street over the bridge. especially not after school: it's a crazy intersection on a crazy road, full of crazy drivers.
adult members of this board would also know better than to try any other tactic than "yes sir, no sir" with the cop.
but, these are kids, right? maybe franklin high school should send their teachers out there as crossing guards...wouldn't be hard, just point at the pedestrian overpass (which has a rad spiral on the west side, perfect for banzai downhill action on wheeled devices)...
the adults are letting me down in this whole story: the ones who didn't teach their kids that cars hurt (50mph+ through that crazy intersection, all the time); the ones who didn't teach their kids to know which battles to fight; the ones who ignored their kid who went on to become a lame cop...
seriously, I'm super hardcore jaywalker, but that's a gnarly intersection...
I also agree that Jaywalking is a problem. I go down to Philly and heads like jump in front of you taking their sweet candy ass time.
That shit is all day, ery day here in B-More. People will just stroll out in front of you regardless of how fast you're going. And even, if you talk shit, yank you out of your car and beat you down. I've seen it happen several times. Jaywalking is just something you realize, and accept, is gonna always happen here (B-More).
Not like it's going to change anything, but I think our city attorney had no choice but to charge her today.
"After reviewing the evidence in consultation with lawyers in my office and the King County Prosecutor, I have decided to charge Marilyn Levias with Obstructing a Public Officer, a gross misdemeanor under the Seattle Municipal Code. Levias' conduct in the video reflects a dangerous refusal to observe the cardinal rule that civilians simply must comply with instructions from police officers. During my years of service on the SPD's Office of Professional Accountability Review Board we consistently admonished the public???and especially parents???of the critical importance of following police officer commands, and my decision today reinforces this basic rule. We are fortunate that no civilian or officer was seriously injured in this incident.
That said, our police department is capable of far better than we have witnessed in recent months. Besides educating the public, the OPA Review Board and at least two OPA Auditors have also consistently stressed the need for de-escalation training for officers, including the observation by Judge Michael Spearman that "The use of force in a [jaywalking] situation as a best practice is questionable." This dangerous intersection near Franklin High School is a known public safety problem, and despite that knowledge, SPD leadership essentially "planned to fail because it failed to plan." I trust that we will not see this ongoing problem addressed in the same shortsighted manner that occurred on Monday.
An essential element of effective policing today is increased cultural sensitivity. At my direction, training developed by the City under its Race & Social Justice Initiative for every member of my office is well
under way. SPD leadership at the very top must insist that its members also undergo this training for the good of our entire City???civilian and officer alike.
Incidents such as these underscore the void in leadership at the top. All of us hope this latest incident will provide a teaching moment: Reminding everyone of the absolute need to comply with officer instructions, and to bring any complaints about officer conduct to the OPA instead. Finally, I urge the Mayor as commander in chief to act promptly to rectify the leadership void at SPD. We have an excellent police force, and it is time the department had leadership worthy of its ranks."
This dude is way better than our last guy, who had this weird thing for trying to shut down bars and bust pot smokers because his daddy was a drunk or something...
Comments
that is inaccurate.
i hate to get at all legal but in common law countries (usa, can., uk, etc) drivers owe a duty to take care to other drivers on the road and to pedestrians. the standard one must live up to is that of the reasonable driver. if one is being careful and driving "reasonably" they are not automatically at fault if a pedestrian unforeseeably jumps out of nowhere in front of their car...
This made me laugh still. Clearly, she wasn't named in the past year.
If an egg should fall on a rock, pity the egg.
The cop should be fired and arrested like any "regular" man would....if he couldn't restrain her, he shouldn't be a police officer...I'd excuse tasing the chick, but punching her in the grill is unacceptable
i obviously completely disagree with your assessment.
you expect the police to simply walk away when they are in the course of making an arrest or otherwise carrying out their duties because a suspect may physically resist? on its face, that makes zero sense. who is the one who is escalating the situation in this case anyhow?
i am no expert on police use of force (and there will be an inquiry) but why do you assume he lost control or overreacted? he was scuffling with 2 people who could have taken his pistol away from him or caused some other harm. while i can't x-ray a person;s soul he seems like the most calm person on the scene. those two girls are hysterical and out of control and the crowd is taunting him, yet he seemingly maintains composure.
if he had shot her, i think your position would have some merit but he simply punched her.
Is a citation the equivalent of an arrest in Washington? Some places you get them for not having a dog on a leash, right?
I am not really in favourof waiting for someone to get shot before conduct is addressed.
We'll disagree, that's fine.
whatever happens before the tape rolls is something i can;t speak to. all i see is an officer trying to effect an arrest and someone physically trying to interfere with that process which is a crime.
at the point he was scuffling with two people he and bystanders would have been exposed to the possibility of one of the assailants taking the gun off of him and possibly even using it.
a certain degree of danger was being posed to the officer and he had to make a split second call on what to do.
from the little i know, i'd say he acted damn reasonably but we should bump this thread after the results of the inquiry are in to see how it shakes out...
"piggery isn;t confined to the pigs" (frederick wiseman speaking on his doc "law and order")
Pretty sure they'll think twice about grappling next time. lol
what fuckin world they live in??? who the fuck raised them??? most parents i know, white and black, tell their kids over and over to keep your hands where cops can see them when you get pulled over. i think a corrollary of this is "dont push an officer" and "dont pull a water gun out your jacket when cops are around". this is some basic, dont be a dumbass life knowledge.
i have extremely little tolerance for police brutality and abuse of their authority, but when faced with assholes like that i get a little more understanding. when the phillies won the world series, the crowd was bugging the fuck out (understandably), but then they started throwing trashcans through storefront windows and shit. assholes! if given a billy club, i would have beat those people down myself.
the people egging those girls on should all be ashamed of themselves. besides the videotaper....i'mall for these things getting filmed
but if aprehnded by a cop, i will stop and suffer the consequences...which if i am cooperative and quiet will probably be a warning with no fine, which i am sure would have been the case to those asshole ass girls
yeah, i really wanna read that. note that Vanderbilt is the fellow that wrote the article odub linked to.
b/w
i jaywalk constantly, and in fact, as often as possible i walk in the street instead of the sidewalk. people are so used to driving with people drinking in the middle of the street all the time in new orleans that no one really cares.
Haha.
there's not an adult member of this board who would opt for the street over the bridge. especially not after school: it's a crazy intersection on a crazy road, full of crazy drivers.
adult members of this board would also know better than to try any other tactic than "yes sir, no sir" with the cop.
but, these are kids, right? maybe franklin high school should send their teachers out there as crossing guards...wouldn't be hard, just point at the pedestrian overpass (which has a rad spiral on the west side, perfect for banzai downhill action on wheeled devices)...
the adults are letting me down in this whole story: the ones who didn't teach their kids that cars hurt (50mph+ through that crazy intersection, all the time); the ones who didn't teach their kids to know which battles to fight; the ones who ignored their kid who went on to become a lame cop...
seriously, I'm super hardcore jaywalker, but that's a gnarly intersection...
http://smokingsection.uproxx.com/TSS/2010/06/heres-what-to-expect-if-you-push-a-cop?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+uproxx/tss+(The+Smoking+Section)
daaaaaaaamn!! story??
That shit is all day, ery day here in B-More. People will just stroll out in front of you regardless of how fast you're going. And even, if you talk shit, yank you out of your car and beat you down. I've seen it happen several times. Jaywalking is just something you realize, and accept, is gonna always happen here (B-More).
"After reviewing the evidence in consultation with lawyers in my office and the King County Prosecutor, I have decided to charge Marilyn Levias with Obstructing a Public Officer, a gross misdemeanor under the Seattle Municipal Code. Levias' conduct in the video reflects a dangerous refusal to observe the cardinal rule that civilians simply must comply with instructions from police officers. During my years of service on the SPD's Office of Professional Accountability Review Board we consistently admonished the public???and especially parents???of the critical importance of following police officer commands, and my decision today reinforces this basic rule. We are fortunate that no civilian or officer was seriously injured in this incident.
That said, our police department is capable of far better than we have witnessed in recent months. Besides educating the public, the OPA Review Board and at least two OPA Auditors have also consistently stressed the need for de-escalation training for officers, including the observation by Judge Michael Spearman that "The use of force in a [jaywalking] situation as a best practice is questionable." This dangerous intersection near Franklin High School is a known public safety problem, and despite that knowledge, SPD leadership essentially "planned to fail because it failed to plan." I trust that we will not see this ongoing problem addressed in the same shortsighted manner that occurred on Monday.
An essential element of effective policing today is increased cultural sensitivity. At my direction, training developed by the City under its Race & Social Justice Initiative for every member of my office is well
under way. SPD leadership at the very top must insist that its members also undergo this training for the good of our entire City???civilian and officer alike.
Incidents such as these underscore the void in leadership at the top. All of us hope this latest incident will provide a teaching moment: Reminding everyone of the absolute need to comply with officer instructions, and to bring any complaints about officer conduct to the OPA instead. Finally, I urge the Mayor as commander in chief to act promptly to rectify the leadership void at SPD. We have an excellent police force, and it is time the department had leadership worthy of its ranks."
This dude is way better than our last guy, who had this weird thing for trying to shut down bars and bust pot smokers because his daddy was a drunk or something...