HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
First off, we don't have a democracy, nor should we want a democracy.
We used to have a representative republic...meaning we vote in representatives to make decisions FOR US, on OUR BEHALF...and when those decisions get compromised as no longer representing us...we vote in a new representative who will better represent us.
The problem is that under our current subverted system, which again is not a democracy, none of our representatives represent us...nor will they ever. They represent big business.
And that's not going to change until the system changes.
I don't really have any problems with lobbying. If your company employs thousands (or hundreds of thousands,) there's no reason it shouldn't be able to hire a couple people to advocate for it's position before the government.
But yes, contributions of all types, independent ads that mention candidates, and any kind of lobbyist funded dinners/trips/gifts/etc, those should all be illegal. We should have government funded elections. No tv ads.
Lay out the details for me Harvey. What kind of representative republic? You going to use the framework of 3 co-equal branches of government? Are you just tweaking what we got or you junking it for a completely different one?
You have been excellent at tearing stuff down tell me what you would build back up.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
A true representative republic works for me.
That's like saying, "I'm for good things."
Lay out the details for me Harvey. What kind of representative republic? You going to use the framework of 3 co-equal branches of government? Are you just tweaking what we got or you junking it for a completely different one?
You have been excellent at tearing stuff down tell me what you would build back up.
You are arguing just to argue at this point. Restore the orginal blueprint, try that for a while. Ain't no essay needing to be written on it. Just to do it.
What is there to say about it? Our government and BP fucked up. By all accounts they continue to fuck up.
Both parties have their hands in Big Oil's pocket.
BP has been allowed to work the problem with oversite by the same clowns that allowed them to drill while ignoring what safety regulations and standards there still are.
Oil has hit the sensitive wetlands in LA, toxic chemicals the Brits banned from use are still being sprayed by BP to break up the oil. Its going around FL. We be fucked.
Freakin' Kevin "Waterworld" Costner has been funding oil clean up tech and is going to give it a go this week.
In CA, Tessla Motors has partnered with Toyota to build all electric vehicles for that market. But that doesn't address the environmental impact of the batteries (construction and disposal) or how we will power them (coal is 40% of our power).
And we have been informed by "Top Men In The Field" that if BP's effort to kill cap the leak fails, it may make the problem worse.
A few points: -Hybrid cars use gasoline and electric cars use oil and fossil fuels because that's how power plants primarily deliver electricity. -People hate the idea of lobbyists, but you can't just rid gov't of lobbyists. While many lobbyists are big business groups, there are plenty of "lobbyists" fighting for orphans with butt cancer. Lobbying should be heavily regulated, and so should campaign contributions, to the point where there's a cap of $5k for any one person of group to give. -This is it people. The biggest publicized environmental disaster to date. This dwarves Exxon Valdez exponentially. Exxon Valdez was a boat. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS NATURAL GAS/OIL/AND METHANE DEPOSIT FLOWING DIRECTLY INTO THE OCEAN. Say BP is right, they're collecting 1/5 of the oil now. Say the lowest estimate of 25k barrels a day is flowing out of the pipe. That's 20k barrels A DAY since the accident since they were siphoning the oil off DIRECTLY into the ocean. Not gallons, barrels. 42 gallons in a barrel apparently. How long since this accident? 4/20? It is already towards the end of May and there is no end in sight. It is sad when nuking the ocean floor seems like a good idea. While I would argue that Chernobyl was a greater ecological disaster, this disaster is harder to deal with in terms of people, animals and water. Oil is impossibly hard to remove from ocean waters, especially on a scale this grand. Rock showed his experiments and the dispersant is effective, but the problem is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big now. This problem is like the garbage gyre of the Pacific, but concentrated in an area that affects millions of people's lives. Now it has reached Louisiana's wetlands. Now it is going to affect Florida's coasts. Now it is going to get into Louisiana (and other states') coastal drinking water. The fishing businesses of the Gulf Coast are effectively destroyed. The tourist businesses of the Gulf Coast will be severely devastated. As nothing is being done, the oil will naturally disperse to levels that can't be reached, can't be cleaned. This is a floating mass of ridiculousness that hasn't ceased, unlike the Exxon Valdez, which was relatively controlled because it was a fixed point, a defined area and had a finite amount of oil.
Even if lobbying/campaign finance rules are tightened up, representatives and regulators will still be faced with the lure of getting lucrative jobs in the industries that they are tasked with regulating and overseeing, after they leave office. It's a delayed bribe but it still works. Corporations could fund an army of Trojan Horse representatives, and if they're smart they will.
who cares really? oil leaks and spills are the most over hyped ecological 'disasters' ever. Oh noes the pelicans are dirty!!! I CRY NOW
I'm sure your opinion got dealt with already but I had to give my 2 cents. Do you even know what you're talking about?? This effects so much from the environment to the economy to 1000's of jobs. Back when Exxon had the Valdez spill, my dad was working for one of the main Exxon oil yards. He lost his job, retirement, a lot of his stock and it took a toll on us as a family in general. My father was almost 50 years old, out of work, looking for a job. It was awful. So don't come with that "oil leaks and spills are the most over hyped ecological 'disasters' ever" bullshit. I don't know where you're from but if you aren't here in the states you need to watch what you say and if you are from here you should be ashamed of yourself for your comment. And don't bother responding because I'm not going back & forth with you. I just wanted to speak my mind. PRICK!!
-This is it people. The biggest publicized environmental disaster to date. This dwarves Exxon Valdez exponentially. Exxon Valdez was a boat. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS NATURAL GAS/OIL/AND METHANE DEPOSIT FLOWING DIRECTLY INTO THE OCEAN. Say BP is right, they're collecting 1/5 of the oil now. Say the lowest estimate of 25k barrels a day is flowing out of the pipe. That's 20k barrels A DAY since the accident since they were siphoning the oil off DIRECTLY into the ocean. Not gallons, barrels. 42 gallons in a barrel apparently. How long since this accident? 4/20? It is already towards the end of May and there is no end in sight. It is sad when nuking the ocean floor seems like a good idea. While I would argue that Chernobyl was a greater ecological disaster, this disaster is harder to deal with in terms of people, animals and water. Oil is impossibly hard to remove from ocean waters, especially on a scale this grand. Rock showed his experiments and the dispersant is effective, but the problem is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big now. This problem is like the garbage gyre of the Pacific, but concentrated in an area that affects millions of people's lives. Now it has reached Louisiana's wetlands. Now it is going to affect Florida's coasts. Now it is going to get into Louisiana (and other states') coastal drinking water. The fishing businesses of the Gulf Coast are effectively destroyed. The tourist businesses of the Gulf Coast will be severely devastated. As nothing is being done, the oil will naturally disperse to levels that can't be reached, can't be cleaned. This is a floating mass of ridiculousness that hasn't ceased, unlike the Exxon Valdez, which was relatively controlled because it was a fixed point, a defined area and had a finite amount of oil.
damn man, you just about summed up my hopelessness. im trying to keep my brain from even beginning to ponder the repercussions
who cares really? oil leaks and spills are the most over hyped ecological 'disasters' ever. Oh noes the pelicans are dirty!!! I CRY NOW
I'm sure your opinion got dealt with already but I had to give my 2 cents. Do you even know what you're talking about?? This effects so much from the environment to the economy to 1000's of jobs. Back when Exxon had the Valdez spill, my dad was working for one of the main Exxon oil yards. He lost his job, retirement, a lot of his stock and it took a toll on us as a family in general. My father was almost 50 years old, out of work, looking for a job. It was awful. So don't come with that "oil leaks and spills are the most over hyped ecological 'disasters' ever" bullshit. I don't know where you're from but if you aren't here in the states you need to watch what you say and if you are from here you should be ashamed of yourself for your comment. And don't bother responding because I'm not going back & forth with you. I just wanted to speak my mind. PRICK!!
I'm still waiting for someone to explain why this is apparently such a huge environmental disaster. Stop hyperventilating and tell me the what you're so afraid of. Some oil has leaked and the result will be????? The end of the world? death of all marine life in the gulf? an army of mutant sea otters who will rise up and enslave us all?
Comments
We used to have a representative republic...meaning we vote in representatives to make decisions FOR US, on OUR BEHALF...and when those decisions get compromised as no longer representing us...we vote in a new representative who will better represent us.
The problem is that under our current subverted system, which again is not a democracy, none of our representatives represent us...nor will they ever. They represent big business.
And that's not going to change until the system changes.
Ok, I will bite. What system do you propose? Lay it out for me Harvey.
Campaign finance reform! Oh wait, the Supreme Court shot that shit down.
But yes, contributions of all types, independent ads that mention candidates, and any kind of lobbyist funded dinners/trips/gifts/etc, those should all be illegal. We should have government funded elections. No tv ads.
That's like saying, "I'm for good things."
Lay out the details for me Harvey. What kind of representative republic? You going to use the framework of 3 co-equal branches of government? Are you just tweaking what we got or you junking it for a completely different one?
You have been excellent at tearing stuff down tell me what you would build back up.
You are arguing just to argue at this point. Restore the orginal blueprint, try that for a while. Ain't no essay needing to be written on it. Just to do it.
slaves & all
All men are created equal (except my "team" of farmhands and house workers)!
poor Dolo missed the memo
Fuck soulstrut.
we were really coming up with some great ideas to get this shit fixed ASAP
What is there to say about it? Our government and BP fucked up. By all accounts they continue to fuck up.
Both parties have their hands in Big Oil's pocket.
BP has been allowed to work the problem with oversite by the same clowns that allowed them to drill while ignoring what safety regulations and standards there still are.
Oil has hit the sensitive wetlands in LA, toxic chemicals the Brits banned from use are still being sprayed by BP to break up the oil. Its going around FL. We be fucked.
Freakin' Kevin "Waterworld" Costner has been funding oil clean up tech and is going to give it a go this week.
In CA, Tessla Motors has partnered with Toyota to build all electric vehicles for that market. But that doesn't address the environmental impact of the batteries (construction and disposal) or how we will power them (coal is 40% of our power).
And we have been informed by "Top Men In The Field" that if BP's effort to kill cap the leak fails, it may make the problem worse.
Is that enough of a summary?
-Hybrid cars use gasoline and electric cars use oil and fossil fuels because that's how power plants primarily deliver electricity.
-People hate the idea of lobbyists, but you can't just rid gov't of lobbyists. While many lobbyists are big business groups, there are plenty of "lobbyists" fighting for orphans with butt cancer. Lobbying should be heavily regulated, and so should campaign contributions, to the point where there's a cap of $5k for any one person of group to give.
-This is it people. The biggest publicized environmental disaster to date. This dwarves Exxon Valdez exponentially. Exxon Valdez was a boat. THIS IS AN ENORMOUS NATURAL GAS/OIL/AND METHANE DEPOSIT FLOWING DIRECTLY INTO THE OCEAN. Say BP is right, they're collecting 1/5 of the oil now. Say the lowest estimate of 25k barrels a day is flowing out of the pipe. That's 20k barrels A DAY since the accident since they were siphoning the oil off DIRECTLY into the ocean. Not gallons, barrels. 42 gallons in a barrel apparently. How long since this accident? 4/20? It is already towards the end of May and there is no end in sight. It is sad when nuking the ocean floor seems like a good idea. While I would argue that Chernobyl was a greater ecological disaster, this disaster is harder to deal with in terms of people, animals and water. Oil is impossibly hard to remove from ocean waters, especially on a scale this grand. Rock showed his experiments and the dispersant is effective, but the problem is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too big now. This problem is like the garbage gyre of the Pacific, but concentrated in an area that affects millions of people's lives. Now it has reached Louisiana's wetlands. Now it is going to affect Florida's coasts. Now it is going to get into Louisiana (and other states') coastal drinking water. The fishing businesses of the Gulf Coast are effectively destroyed. The tourist businesses of the Gulf Coast will be severely devastated. As nothing is being done, the oil will naturally disperse to levels that can't be reached, can't be cleaned. This is a floating mass of ridiculousness that hasn't ceased, unlike the Exxon Valdez, which was relatively controlled because it was a fixed point, a defined area and had a finite amount of oil.
I'm sure your opinion got dealt with already but I had to give my 2 cents. Do you even know what you're talking about?? This effects so much from the environment to the economy to 1000's of jobs. Back when Exxon had the Valdez spill, my dad was working for one of the main Exxon oil yards. He lost his job, retirement, a lot of his stock and it took a toll on us as a family in general. My father was almost 50 years old, out of work, looking for a job. It was awful. So don't come with that "oil leaks and spills are the most over hyped ecological 'disasters' ever" bullshit. I don't know where you're from but if you aren't here in the states you need to watch what you say and if you are from here you should be ashamed of yourself for your comment. And don't bother responding because I'm not going back & forth with you. I just wanted to speak my mind. PRICK!!
damn man, you just about summed up my hopelessness.
im trying to keep my brain from even beginning to ponder the repercussions
As nasty as that was, the effects were fairly localized.
This current spill is anything but.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/oil_reaches_louisiana_shores.html
Sad stuff
ecological disasters
ECOLOGICAL DISASTERS
Less righteous outrage, more reading.
The standing death toll for this disaster is the 11 workers who lost their lives when the rig initially exploded. The final death toll will be 11.
LET ME KNOW
Nah, the mutant sea otters are coming just for you. Time to hide out in your wingnut spiderhole.