You are really mad at the way other people spend their money.
Maybe so.....and if the results are a generation of people who feel a degree of entitlement and are unable to fend for themselves if need be it might be justified.
Just this past weekend my daughter had a friend over who is 20 and I asked him about his job prospects since he dropped out of school.....he said "Why should I work, my parents gives me everything I want"....they are divorced, wealthy and "compete" for their kid's attention by throwing money at him...so today, yeah, my view may also be biased.
Your daughter must have been mortified that her friend is such a moron. But I can see his point, after all gravy trains last forever, right?
I wouldn't handicap my kids by paying their bills in their twenties. That's when you learn to survive out there. Necessary skills. I plan on being rich then so my kids will be mad.
Your daughter must have been mortified that her friend is such a moron. But I can see his point, after all gravy trains last forever, right?
Honestly, no she wasn't....she has more than a few friends like this.....and at times has complained that I should be more like their parents.
I think I have a unique perspective on this board as someone who has college age children and the ability to spoil them.
And I live in an area where I witness my peers literally teaching their children to be irresponsible.
My kids claim(they may be lying) that they are the only one's in their "clique" who's parents didn't buy them a car outright....the most I would do is co-sign a loan.
I know of two local girls who's parents bought them breast implants as High School graduation presents....and apparently it's not that unusual.
I feel it is my responsibility to teach my children how to be responsible and independent, and quite frankly, it makes it more difficult when these idiot parents "give" their children whatever their hearts desire.
I have stories that would blow your mind.....and I honestly have never seen anything good come out of spoiling children, of any age.
Don't get it crooked, if my kid wanted to buy a house and couldn't afford it on her own I'd co-sign a loan in a minute, but buy it for her outright....hell no.
After reading Big Stacks stories about his students I know this is not limited to my personal experience.
are people seriously arguing that there's something wrong with despising trust fund fuckos?
crazy talk
Yeah, I'm glad someone said this because I thought I was in bizarro world for a minute.
I don't have a problem with the idea of supporting your kids and their aspirations/ambitions. But as someone else wrote, I want my daughter to grow up to be independent and that means, at a certain point, she'll need to figure out the life skills to support herself and make smart choices to plan for her future. I want to provide her with the same things my parents provided me - a financial safety net that means she won't end up homeless and hopefully can support her undergraduate education. But I sure as hell am not going to pay for her to grow up to be a dilettante! (Not the least of which is that there's no way I'll ever make enough money for that to happen regardless).
Teen years are for slacking. You hit your 20s and it's time to learn how to be an adult.
U guys are using common sense and all, but real rich folks dont think like that. They can give a fusk about regular shit like earning your way.
If your on some real rich shit, how can u possibly impart "strugglin" for your accolades to your children.
Of course there are wealthy families that have remained rooted in "working hard", but usually, cats be on some other reality shit.
Now for the family that has some money and sends Amy to NYC just cause she wants to be in NYC for no other reason cause they can afford to keep her boyant...well that's another illusion.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Your daughter must have been mortified that her friend is such a moron. But I can see his point, after all gravy trains last forever, right?
Honestly, no she wasn't....she has more than a few friends like this.....and at times has complained that I should be more like their parents.
I think I have a unique perspective on this board as someone who has college age children and the ability to spoil them.
And I live in an area where I witness my peers literally teaching their children to be irresponsible.
My kids claim(they may be lying) that they are the only one's in their "clique" who's parents didn't buy them a car outright....the most I would do is co-sign a loan.
I know of two local girls who's parents bought them breast implants as High School graduation presents....and apparently it's not that unusual.
I feel it is my responsibility to teach my children how to be responsible and independent, and quite frankly, it makes it more difficult when these idiot parents "give" their children whatever their hearts desire.
I have stories that would blow your mind.....and I honestly have never seen anything good come out of spoiling children, of any age.
Don't get it crooked, if my kid wanted to buy a house and couldn't afford it on her own I'd co-sign a loan in a minute, but buy it for her outright....hell no.
After reading Big Stacks stories about his students I know this is not limited to my personal experience.
Rock, I wouldn't necessarily explain your views as a function of age, as I am only 39 and I agree with everything you've said. Also, the scary part is that someday this generation will be our caretakers. I shudder at the thought. There is no rational way to defend raising a generation of whiny dependents. Cut the apron strings and make them grow up. At times, I find them downright pitiful and embarrassing. In my experiences, pride and dignity escape many of them.
I WISH my parents had been able to support my ass when I lived in NYC - I would have been able to do an unpaid internship in publishing or whatever( instead of actually having to work to pay my bills) - a lot of these companies straight up rely on having an unpaid crew of post-collegiate trust funders - which makes it hard for the self-reliant to break into media / fashion / music etc etc
Twixters must realize that their parents won't live forever
I'm pretty sure they not only realize it, but are counting on it. Inheritance = the big payday.
Not so much under the change we're believing in. Their (our) beloved Obama is about to help bring an end to the Gravy train. Getting your inheritance taxed at upwards of 60% will make people turn republican very quickly. I would be shocked if this ends up repealing next year.
I think this article is a great jump-off to extol ones hipster/trustafarian anger; strut catnip for dayz, but there are plenty of people who came from well-off families who have the same work ethic as somebody who didn't didn't. Teaching ones children what it's like to earn their way is basic parenting; not something that lives in one socio-economic bracket or the other.
But hell; sweeping generalizations are the Soulstrut way.
Lack of great means in a family does not always beget highly motivated and responsible offspring. 'Struggle' and the 'hard-working individual' are so often associated with one another but this is not always the case at all.
I think these days more than ever there needs to be greater importance placed on instilling greater responsibility (particularly of the financial variety) in people. I mean, you do all realize that this entire financial crisis we've been in for almost a year now was in large part heightened by the irresponsibility and nonchalant attitude toward consequences on the part of both the average American and those who ran the financial system, right?
Everything being discussed here applies precisely to the macro-level results of these attitudes towards careless spending that we're now witnessing. And what Rock, Stacks, Manny and others are suggesting ought to be instilled from the tween years on is exactly the top of real-world education that everyone now comments on as being sorely lacking in this country in the past 10-20 years - to ill effect.
:endrant:
By the way, I graduated college almost exactly a year ago. My parents paid for most of my tuition, claiming that my job was to learn and they didn't want me to pay less attention to classes by having to work a job. I worked a campus job anyway though to pay for beer, records, and other entertainment. I now have a job that's not showering me in gold, but I pay my own rent and bills and am careful not to spend more money than I have. A ton of friends of mine from college live in NYC in apartments paid for by their parents. I'm not mad at them at all - although most of them are having a lot of fun, they seem almost like children - still entirely dependent on a caretaker for their existence. If you're ok with that, then cool. For me personally, independence is part of how I assess my feelings of self-worth.
And from a lot of what I read, it also seems to instill an important paradigm of thought that informs the way I (and the rest of my generation) will one day spend my money in more important ways (read: ways that will have macro-level effects)
The 20 year friend of my daughter that I referenced earlier just called my house, collect, from the County Jail.....locked up.
Got picked up for 4 unpaid parking ticket warrants and 2 failures to appear.
Doesn't want his Mom to know about it.
Really, not wanting your parents to know about something as trivial as parking tickets and a failure to appear is pretty weak. Tell her she needs to be dating men that are hiding worse offenses than that or nothing at all...these guys getting arrested for mediocre shit like parking tickets just can't commit either way and should not be deemed worthy of your daughters. Go big or don't go at all.
there are plenty of people who came from well-off families who have the same work ethic as somebody who didn't didn't. Teaching ones children what it's like to earn their way is basic parenting; not something that lives in one socio-economic bracket or the other.
there are plenty of people who came from well-off families who have the same work ethic as somebody who didn't didn't. Teaching ones children what it's like to earn their way is basic parenting; not something that lives in one socio-economic bracket or the other.
True dat.
Yeah but no one was suggesting otherwise. The issue is not whether you come from a well-off background or not. It's 1) whether or not there's a generation of kids who are growing up hyper-sheltered above and beyond just basic economic security and 2), to be more specific to what spurred this conversation, whether we should feel sorry for extraordinarily privileged slackers living far above most people's means getting their free checks cut off.
A guy fell into my shop, badly beaten and bruised, stinking of alcohol and bleeding out of several cuts on his face (and out of his ear!). He calmly came up to the counter and asked me if we were hiring.
Now that's a guy with "hustle"! What's gonna stop him from being on time every day? Besides the beatings, I mean. HIRE THAT MAN.
My folks made me pay rent from the time I had my first job at 15. All my friends made fun of me....when I moved out of the house at 17 my Mom gave me a check for a little over 3 grand.....it was the "rent" money I had paid her. Taught me how to be independent and prepared me for the real world. Too few parents do this today.
The same here, except I didn't get my "deposit" back.
Sucks too 'cause the whole time I thought I would! Not because my Mom ever hinted at it, I just thought she was teaching me kind of a fake lesson. That day I moved out and she didn't hand me any money, I was bummed!
A guy fell into my shop, badly beaten and bruised, stinking of alcohol and bleeding out of several cuts on his face (and out of his ear!). He calmly came up to the counter and asked me if we were hiring.
Now that's a guy with "hustle"! What's gonna stop him from being on time every day? Besides the beatings, I mean. HIRE THAT MAN.
Twixters must realize that their parents won't live forever
I'm pretty sure they not only realize it, but are counting on it. Inheritance = the big payday.
Not so much under the change we're believing in. Their (our) beloved Obama is about to help bring an end to the Gravy train. Getting your inheritance taxed at upwards of 60% will make people turn republican very quickly. I would be shocked if this ends up repealing next year.
I just can't relate to this whole damn discussion. I guess My background is just SOOO different than the average (well, let's be honest- MOST) Strutters. I am ASSUMING than most of you came up in pretty good/decent and caring families (hell, look at that "is your parents married thread"..most were still married).
I grew up poor. Trailer parks, Gov't apartments, foot stamps free lunch tickets (the yellow ones you got made fun of for having from the other kids with the blue ones), born in a free clinic (which in the 70's was f*cking nasty), had my father CONSTANTLY stealing anything of "value" (by our poor standards) to go pawn for dope,etc. Needles, pills, the whole nine yards. Hell, the dude broke in our own F'n trailer that me, my mother and he was living in at the time (I was a toddler) when we weren't there and cleaned the f*cking place out..down to the silverware (and of course tried to blame it on someone else..but it was obvious it was him. It was the speed..the needles..the drugs (he now has Hep C because of it). It was rough.
I know a lot of guys on here will say "wah wah wah...boo f*cking hoo", but F*ck YOU if you haven't lived that life. When your grandfather was a convicted murderer (that you loved as most kids love their grandpa's) and was drug dealer, as well as having grandmothers and aunts that were prostitutes, I saw and had to deal with some serious shit..although at the time I didn't think it was crazy...it's just the what I accustomed to. I just dreamed of living in a little house with the normal family shit..like I saw on TV. I wanted Bill Cosby as a dad.
My parents were (and one still is) drug addicts (thankfully..somehow my dad got clean fairly recently to his new take no shit wife. I forgive him for what he did because it was the drugs...I know the deal.
OK..enough of my sob story..ha!. It's just reading the W'burg articles makes me want to f*cking kill those motherfuckers.
To Big Stacks: Dependency comes in different colors. Being dependent on working a slavish minimum wage 9-5 at a job you don't like and that doesn't stimulate you but holds back your creativity and enjoyment of life is nothing to glorify.
Hey Frank,
Ironically enough, I grew up in a middle-class background. Still, my parents tied contingencies to the things I did (or did not) receive. For example, my parents paid my college tuition as long as my grade point average was 'B' or above. When it dipped below the standard, they cut off the funds! This is how you teach people real-world contingencies, that there are consequences for f*cking up. Being unable to go to school and having to bust my back loading trucks (i.e., I had to get a 2nd job because I was not attending school) taught me how valuable a college education is. Seeing old dudes, who I would become if I didn't get my shit together, hurting their backs on the dock taught me to buckle down. Needless to say, when my folks gave me a final shot at college, I earned 4.0 GPAs from then on until graduation (3 years)! Another motivating condition was that my parents WOULD NOT pay for me to attend graduate school. Instead, I had to earn my way there via fellowships and/or assistantships awarded for my undergraduate academic performance (which I did).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
A lot of talk about contingencies here... spoken like a true psychologist!
Seriously though, I worked as a mailman alongside a man in his sixties who had bad knees, constantly complaining about his job. That was one of the experiences that really motivated me to pursue a career (in psychology, BTW). I do agree with Frank, that there isn't a lot of charm in working a dead-end job. But you do see what can happen to you if you don't get your shit together - and it can hit you in a more powerful way than any speech from your parents. I've definitely gotten financial support from my folks, but they haven't SUPPORTED me. Now I'm thankful for that, because I know now that I (unfortunately) could have sat around doing nothing if I had the opportunity!
Twixters must realize that their parents won't live forever
I'm pretty sure they not only realize it, but are counting on it. Inheritance = the big payday.
Not so much under the change we're believing in. Their (our) beloved Obama is about to help bring an end to the Gravy train. Getting your inheritance taxed at upwards of 60% will make people turn republican very quickly. I would be shocked if this ends up repealing next year.
Dude...the VAST majority of Americans aren't even remotely close to the bracket where the death/estate tax come into play, and those that are have been lobbying like a bunch of whiny ass titty babys trying to make it go away. There's an excellent article in the latest issue of Rolling Stone about just this subject.
Considering the state of affairs in this country and the world right now, this kind of grousing is disgusting, just like the boneless slackjaws who are sitting in Williamsburg like a bunch of veals wondering where the next check is coming from.
Comments
Your daughter must have been mortified that her friend is such a moron. But I can see his point, after all gravy trains last forever, right?
Honestly, no she wasn't....she has more than a few friends like this.....and at times has complained that I should be more like their parents.
I think I have a unique perspective on this board as someone who has college age children and the ability to spoil them.
And I live in an area where I witness my peers literally teaching their children to be irresponsible.
My kids claim(they may be lying) that they are the only one's in their "clique" who's parents didn't buy them a car outright....the most I would do is co-sign a loan.
I know of two local girls who's parents bought them breast implants as High School graduation presents....and apparently it's not that unusual.
I feel it is my responsibility to teach my children how to be responsible and independent, and quite frankly, it makes it more difficult when these idiot parents "give" their children whatever their hearts desire.
I have stories that would blow your mind.....and I honestly have never seen anything good come out of spoiling children, of any age.
Don't get it crooked, if my kid wanted to buy a house and couldn't afford it on her own I'd co-sign a loan in a minute, but buy it for her outright....hell no.
After reading Big Stacks stories about his students I know this is not limited to my personal experience.
Bingo!
are people seriously arguing that there's something wrong with despising trust fund fuckos?
crazy talk
If you want to see an otherwise indefensible position ridden for, you need only to post about it here.
Yeah, I'm glad someone said this because I thought I was in bizarro world for a minute.
I don't have a problem with the idea of supporting your kids and their aspirations/ambitions. But as someone else wrote, I want my daughter to grow up to be independent and that means, at a certain point, she'll need to figure out the life skills to support herself and make smart choices to plan for her future. I want to provide her with the same things my parents provided me - a financial safety net that means she won't end up homeless and hopefully can support her undergraduate education. But I sure as hell am not going to pay for her to grow up to be a dilettante! (Not the least of which is that there's no way I'll ever make enough money for that to happen regardless).
Teen years are for slacking. You hit your 20s and it's time to learn how to be an adult.
If your on some real rich shit, how can u possibly impart "strugglin" for your accolades to your children.
Of course there are wealthy families that have remained rooted in "working hard", but usually, cats be on some other reality shit.
Now for the family that has some money and sends Amy to NYC just cause she wants to be in NYC for no other reason cause they can afford to keep her boyant...well that's another illusion.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Not so much under the change we're believing in. Their (our) beloved Obama is about to help bring an end to the Gravy train. Getting your inheritance taxed at upwards of 60% will make people turn republican very quickly. I would be shocked if this ends up repealing next year.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123172020818472279.html
I think this article is a great jump-off to extol ones hipster/trustafarian anger; strut catnip for dayz, but there are plenty of people who came from well-off families who have the same work ethic as somebody who didn't didn't. Teaching ones children what it's like to earn their way is basic parenting; not something that lives in one socio-economic bracket or the other.
But hell; sweeping generalizations are the Soulstrut way.
The 20 year friend of my daughter that I referenced earlier just called my house, collect, from the County Jail.....locked up.
Got picked up for 4 unpaid parking ticket warrants and 2 failures to appear.
Doesn't want his Mom to know about it.
LOL "friend"
Everything being discussed here applies precisely to the macro-level results of these attitudes towards careless spending that we're now witnessing. And what Rock, Stacks, Manny and others are suggesting ought to be instilled from the tween years on is exactly the top of real-world education that everyone now comments on as being sorely lacking in this country in the past 10-20 years - to ill effect.
:endrant:
By the way, I graduated college almost exactly a year ago. My parents paid for most of my tuition, claiming that my job was to learn and they didn't want me to pay less attention to classes by having to work a job. I worked a campus job anyway though to pay for beer, records, and other entertainment. I now have a job that's not showering me in gold, but I pay my own rent and bills and am careful not to spend more money than I have. A ton of friends of mine from college live in NYC in apartments paid for by their parents. I'm not mad at them at all - although most of them are having a lot of fun, they seem almost like children - still entirely dependent on a caretaker for their existence. If you're ok with that, then cool. For me personally, independence is part of how I assess my feelings of self-worth.
And from a lot of what I read, it also seems to instill an important paradigm of thought that informs the way I (and the rest of my generation) will one day spend my money in more important ways (read: ways that will have macro-level effects)
Really, not wanting your parents to know about something as trivial as parking tickets and a failure to appear is pretty weak. Tell her she needs to be dating men that are hiding worse offenses than that or nothing at all...these guys getting arrested for mediocre shit like parking tickets just can't commit either way and should not be deemed worthy of your daughters. Go big or don't go at all.
True dat.
Yeah but no one was suggesting otherwise. The issue is not whether you come from a well-off background or not. It's 1) whether or not there's a generation of kids who are growing up hyper-sheltered above and beyond just basic economic security and 2), to be more specific to what spurred this conversation, whether we should feel sorry for extraordinarily privileged slackers living far above most people's means getting their free checks cut off.
He did!
The same here, except I didn't get my "deposit" back.
Sucks too 'cause the whole time I thought I would! Not because my Mom ever hinted at it, I just thought she was teaching me kind of a fake lesson. That day I moved out and she didn't hand me any money, I was bummed!
WINNER
Also: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124260067214828295.html
I grew up poor. Trailer parks, Gov't apartments, foot stamps free lunch tickets (the yellow ones you got made fun of for having from the other kids with the blue ones), born in a free clinic (which in the 70's was f*cking nasty), had my father CONSTANTLY stealing anything of "value" (by our poor standards) to go pawn for dope,etc. Needles, pills, the whole nine yards. Hell, the dude broke in our own F'n trailer that me, my mother and he was living in at the time (I was a toddler) when we weren't there and cleaned the f*cking place out..down to the silverware (and of course tried to blame it on someone else..but it was obvious it was him. It was the speed..the needles..the drugs (he now has Hep C because of it). It was rough.
I know a lot of guys on here will say "wah wah wah...boo f*cking hoo", but F*ck YOU if you haven't lived that life. When your grandfather was a convicted murderer (that you loved as most kids love their grandpa's) and was drug dealer, as well as having grandmothers and aunts that were prostitutes, I saw and had to deal with some serious shit..although at the time I didn't think it was crazy...it's just the what I accustomed to. I just dreamed of living in a little house with the normal family shit..like I saw on TV. I wanted Bill Cosby as a dad.
My parents were (and one still is) drug addicts (thankfully..somehow my dad got clean fairly recently to his new take no shit wife. I forgive him for what he did because it was the drugs...I know the deal.
OK..enough of my sob story..ha!. It's just reading the W'burg articles makes me want to f*cking kill those motherfuckers.
A lot of talk about contingencies here... spoken like a true psychologist!
Seriously though, I worked as a mailman alongside a man in his sixties who had bad knees, constantly complaining about his job. That was one of the experiences that really motivated me to pursue a career (in psychology, BTW). I do agree with Frank, that there isn't a lot of charm in working a dead-end job. But you do see what can happen to you if you don't get your shit together - and it can hit you in a more powerful way than any speech from your parents. I've definitely gotten financial support from my folks, but they haven't SUPPORTED me. Now I'm thankful for that, because I know now that I (unfortunately) could have sat around doing nothing if I had the opportunity!
Rockadelic as Grandma Walton and Frank as Nelly Olsen.
True that.
Dude...the VAST majority of Americans aren't even remotely close to the bracket where the death/estate tax come into play, and those that are have been lobbying like a bunch of whiny ass titty babys trying to make it go away. There's an excellent article in the latest issue of Rolling Stone about just this subject.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28418678/the_death_tax_scam
Considering the state of affairs in this country and the world right now, this kind of grousing is disgusting, just like the boneless slackjaws who are sitting in Williamsburg like a bunch of veals wondering where the next check is coming from.