Watch "Don't Look Back" and tell me who was jealous of Donovan. That whole movie is about how jealous Bob was of him.
Jokes, right? Did we see the same movie? I'll admit, the London press was creating an unfair comparison between D&D in order to sell papers and albums and BritPride, but Donovan (esp. at the time) wasn't lyrically fit to wet Dylan's harp. Um, so to speak. Really, it's just different music.
I can only take Dylan in small doses, his voice is a little grating to me.
Jesus Christ. If you're listening to Dylan for the voice and the psych overdubs and a happy feeling you get, then you're listening to his music for exactly the wrong reasons. If you can tell me now that you can't feel "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" in your fucking BONES sometimes, then I really don't know where to start in explaining to you the obvious differences between these two artists. If you admit that Dylan was more important in the historical sense, then why do you figure that was? Simply because he (enter criticspeak) "was a bridge between Old Folk Ways and New Rock Sensibilities?" Or something like "folks dug his shit?" Listen to "Let Me Die In My Footsteps," "Idiot Wind" (bootleg series version) and "It's All Right Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" (or, hell, "Last Thoughts on Woody Guthrie"), and tell me the qualitative difference between those songs and anything from the Sunshine Superman. Donovan is pleasant and listenable, (and a hell of a lot nicer guy) but, I mean, it's like comparing Dan Majerle to Larry Bird. Both were nice outside shooters, but one was Larry Bird.
Yes, Dylan was (is) a Substance-Abuser and general asshole/bad motherfucker, but so was Johnny Cash. So was every rock, country, and r&b singer ever. Don't confuse the man's outsides for his output. Certainly, Dylan dropped off for extended periods of time (some might say permanently, post-75). And he gives shitty concerts and tours with the Leftover Dead. None of these tarnish his early work when it's just you, your record player, and a pair of speakers in an empty room. I'm not just hipster-rock-critic posing (because then you KNOW I'd opt for Donovan, in a full Embrace-the-Backlash bellyflop) when I say that Dylan's best work, although obvious and worn as Classic Material, is as visceral and fresh to me as the first day I heard it.
donovan just on a vibe and sensibilty level. dylan is a great artist yes blah blah but shit man i like joan baez and i like other laura nyro and shit and this dylan guy just bugs me.
i also get annoyed at self important quoting visual artists and all that too. stamp as certified genius related shit. you mean to tell me you actually listen to that garbage?
a lot of critics thought that dude blowed back in 1965 and they were critical for the right reasons. shit major label rip of off folkie kind of bugs that freewheeling shit.
i'm down for sand and foam right now. sunshine superman is that pop bullshit that he had to do for the " label ".
maybe its all because i'm so FOLKWAYS and i like fats waller and shit. jack teagarden is good. have an exciting soulstrut evening.
donovan just on a vibe and sensibilty level. dylan is a great artist yes blah blah but shit man i like joan baez and i like other laura nyro and shit and this dylan guy just bugs me.
i also get annoyed at self important quoting visual artists and all that too. stamp as certified genius related shit. you mean to tell me you actually listen to that garbage?
a lot of critics thought that dude blowed back in 1965 and they were critical for the right reasons. shit major label rip of off folkie kind of bugs that freewheeling shit.
i'm down for sand and foam right now. sunshine superman is that pop bullshit that he had to do for the " label ".
maybe its all because i'm so FOLKWAYS and i like fats waller and shit. jack teagarden is good. have an exciting soulstrut evening.
Well, yeah - Dylan was a Guthrie dickrider, but I really take Dylan as one logical extension of Guthrie rather than a pure biter. I love Folkways for everything it stands for (though I can't say I fully dig Guthrie, per se, as much as I respect him), but I think that early Dylan and Folkways can be Nice Neighbors (don't knock me for this! Dylan wasn't JUST some soulless city slicker poseur). I've always like the pre-electric Dylan better - before the guy holed himself up so far in his private mind garden that nothing came out but Vincent Price's corpse and some heavy meth residue. But really: Dylan is more than just his own outsized persona.
I'm not a Donovan hater - and I admit I don't have all his Epic records to fully judge - but I just hear something basic and necessary in stuff like "Girl From The North Country." But don't get me started on Baez and Nyro. Jeee-sus. Baez was a honey, but that ululation-cum-"vibrato" peels my paint.
Dylan is legit, but as for his " seriousness " he might as well have been some kind of a poet ( although he never would have made it in that " serious " of an art form ).
Darkness at the break of noon Shadows even the silver spoon The handmade blade, the child's balloon Eclipses both the sun and moon To understand you know too soon There is no sense in trying.
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn Suicide remarks are torn From the fool's gold mouthpiece The hollow horn plays wasted words Proves to warn That he not busy being born Is busy dying.
Temptation's page flies out the door You follow, find yourself at war Watch waterfalls of pity roar You feel to moan but unlike before You discover That you'd just be One more person crying.
So don't fear if you hear A foreign sound to your ear It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.
As some warn victory, some downfall Private reasons great or small Can be seen in the eyes of those that call To make all that should be killed to crawl While others say don't hate nothing at all Except hatred.
Disillusioned words like bullets bark As human gods aim for their mark Made everything from toy guns that spark To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark It's easy to see without looking too far That not much Is really sacred.
While preachers preach of evil fates Teachers teach that knowledge waits Can lead to hundred-dollar plates Goodness hides behind its gates But even the president of the United States Sometimes must have To stand naked.
An' though the rules of the road have been lodged It's only people's games that you got to dodge And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.
Advertising signs that con you Into thinking you're the one That can do what's never been done That can win what's never been won Meantime life outside goes on All around you.
You lose yourself, you reappear You suddenly find you got nothing to fear Alone you stand with nobody near When a trembling distant voice, unclear Startles your sleeping ears to hear That somebody thinks They really found you.
A question in your nerves is lit Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy Insure you not to quit To keep it in your mind and not fergit That it is not he or she or them or it That you belong to.
Although the masters make the rules For the wise men and the fools I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.
For them that must obey authority That they do not respect in any degree Who despise their jobs, their destinies Speak jealously of them that are free Cultivate their flowers to be Nothing more than something They invest in.
While some on principles baptized To strict party platform ties Social clubs in drag disguise Outsiders they can freely criticize Tell nothing except who to idolize And then say God bless him.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
But I mean no harm nor put fault On anyone that lives in a vault But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.
Old lady judges watch people in pairs Limited in sex, they dare To push fake morals, insult and stare While money doesn't talk, it swears Obscenity, who really cares Propaganda, all is phony.
While them that defend what they cannot see With a killer's pride, security It blows the minds most bitterly For them that think death's honesty Won't fall upon them naturally Life sometimes Must get lonely.
My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards False gods, I scuff At pettiness which plays so rough Walk upside-down inside handcuffs Kick my legs to crash it off Say okay, I have had enough What else can you show me?
And if my thought-dreams could be seen They'd probably put my head in a guillotine But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only.
I enjoy alot of Bob Dylan; especially the bootleg series. I think Donovan definitley made some good songs though, after he quit riding Dylan's nuts. No one has mentioned that on some of those Donovan tracks you get a chance to hear some early Jimmy Page, John Bonham. Listen to Barabajagal (Love is Hot) with the Zeppelin folks and tell me it's not smokin'. Saying that, the Bob Dylan Bootleg series vol. 1-3 is some serious music and i will probably still be listening to it 50 years from now. I will keep both of these folks in my records and probably learn to appreciate them more the older I get. As for now, I am listening to Mr. Pearson's Summer Folk New Age mix....(thanks again, this mix really grows on me)chillin' out with a twiddlestick and some tunes while the day cools off peace from Organica.
When I saw this post I immediately thought of seeing Don't Look Back in college. That really started me in on Dylan. The key scene is when Dylan finally meets up with Donovan, after mocking him for most of the film. Donovan plays some nice folky tune and Dylan just rips him by playing Baby Blue. The difference could not be clearer, a giant artist was sitting next to a poseur (granted Dylan was a total ass).
Cut to a few years later and I am listening to the oldies station and Hurdy Gurdy man comes on and blows my wig back. Thus, begins some research into Donovan. Turns out my dad has Sunshine Superman, all beat to hell. After hearing Season of the Witch and the Trip I am totally re-evaluating the cosmic kid.
Still, Dylan just brings too much heat, for too many years, in too many amazing and surprising ways. The fact that he can pull off a duet with Johnny Cash (Girl from the North Country= as fuck) then comeback with Tangled Up in Blue and then leave Blind Willie McTell off a record reveals him to be unique amongst all artists. IMO he really has no peer. Anyway recommending the first track from the bootleg series "Hardtimes in New York Town".
Donovan is great, Dylan is the King.
P.S. Dylan's look in Don't Look Back is still one of the best.
They're both dope. Shouldn't really compare them. I overdosed on Dylan when I was younger whereas there's still alot of Donovan I need to check. Dylans a genius but he didn't make "Get Thy Bearings" I also dig "Hi it's been a long time" of hurdy gurdy...
I was so enamored with Donovan when I was 16, 17 that my dear High School girlfriend (R.I.P.) was kind and drove us down to the Coach House in San Juan Capistrano to see him perform with his just his acoustic guitar. The Coach House is the graveyard for unloved old rock and pop stars. Loverboy plays there and shit.
oh man, the coach house! haha! I've actually seen some cool old geezers play there, but that place is kind depressing.
Dylan v. Donavan
Dylan: He might actually be almost as much of a "genius" as everyman rock critic says he is, but I don't think he's as genius as he thinks he is. He is a prick. and, as has been pointed out, him making fun of Donavan in Don't look back is funny cause he ripped off Woody Guthrie more than anyone in history has ever ripped anyone off. Woody is the shit. Neither Dylan or Donavan are good enough to lick his dead nuts. period. that said, I listen to "Another Side of" through "John Westly Hardin" a lot. I rarely tire of any of those records. Blonde on Blonde is one of the few records that hype can't tarnish. Another funny Dylan being a prick story I read is that Dylan was a total ass to all the musicians in Nashville when he recorded Blonde on Blonde. Just rude. And those Nashville players are really what puts that record on another level moreso than the songs. That is my opinion.
Donavan: the song hurdy gurdy man still blows my mind everytime I hear it. I don't listen to him very often though. I think I've only kept one or two of his records. His Epic stuff is totally original. He is cool.
I'll take Woody Guthrie.
Oh, and someone mentioned Phil Ochs - "Pleasures of the Harbor" is almost better than anything by Dylan or Donavan. I love that record!
No one has mentioned that on some of those Donovan tracks you get a chance to hear some early Jimmy Page, John Bonham. Listen to Barabajagal (Love is Hot) with the Zeppelin folks and tell me it's not smokin'.
I thought it was the Jeff Beck Group on Barabajagal and Led Zepp. on the track Hurdy Gurdy Man. Am I wrong?
No one has mentioned that on some of those Donovan tracks you get a chance to hear some early Jimmy Page, John Bonham. Listen to Barabajagal (Love is Hot) with the Zeppelin folks and tell me it's not smokin'.
I thought it was the Jeff Beck Group on Barabajagal and Led Zepp. on the track Hurdy Gurdy Man. Am I wrong?
Yeah but there's plenty of tracks with Beck, Page and Ritchie Blackmore in their teens contributing face-melting, out-of-left-field-solos on lots of tracks from that time period.
I listen to Donoven more. I sort of burned out on Dylans voice, and always thought Donoven was corny but after listening more I still think Donoven is corny but some of his songs and arrangements are quite moving. That said, Jimi Hendrix's version of all along the watchtower never gets old to me.
Comments
saying though
Jokes, right? Did we see the same movie? I'll admit, the London press was creating an unfair comparison between D&D in order to sell papers and albums and BritPride, but Donovan (esp. at the time) wasn't lyrically fit to wet Dylan's harp. Um, so to speak. Really, it's just different music.
Jesus Christ. If you're listening to Dylan for the voice and the psych overdubs and a happy feeling you get, then you're listening to his music for exactly the wrong reasons. If you can tell me now that you can't feel "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" in your fucking BONES sometimes, then I really don't know where to start in explaining to you the obvious differences between these two artists. If you admit that Dylan was more important in the historical sense, then why do you figure that was? Simply because he (enter criticspeak) "was a bridge between Old Folk Ways and New Rock Sensibilities?" Or something like "folks dug his shit?" Listen to "Let Me Die In My Footsteps," "Idiot Wind" (bootleg series version) and "It's All Right Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" (or, hell, "Last Thoughts on Woody Guthrie"), and tell me the qualitative difference between those songs and anything from the Sunshine Superman. Donovan is pleasant and listenable, (and a hell of a lot nicer guy) but, I mean, it's like comparing Dan Majerle to Larry Bird. Both were nice outside shooters, but one was Larry Bird.
Yes, Dylan was (is) a Substance-Abuser and general asshole/bad motherfucker, but so was Johnny Cash. So was every rock, country, and r&b singer ever. Don't confuse the man's outsides for his output. Certainly, Dylan dropped off for extended periods of time (some might say permanently, post-75). And he gives shitty concerts and tours with the Leftover Dead. None of these tarnish his early work when it's just you, your record player, and a pair of speakers in an empty room. I'm not just hipster-rock-critic posing (because then you KNOW I'd opt for Donovan, in a full Embrace-the-Backlash bellyflop) when I say that Dylan's best work, although obvious and worn as Classic Material, is as visceral and fresh to me as the first day I heard it.
i also get annoyed at self important quoting visual artists and all that too. stamp as certified genius related shit. you mean to tell me you actually listen to that garbage?
a lot of critics thought that dude blowed back in 1965 and they were critical for the right reasons. shit major label rip of off folkie kind of bugs that freewheeling shit.
i'm down for sand and foam right now. sunshine superman is that pop bullshit that he had to do for the " label ".
maybe its all because i'm so FOLKWAYS and i like fats waller and shit. jack teagarden is good. have an exciting soulstrut evening.
Well, yeah - Dylan was a Guthrie dickrider, but I really take Dylan as one logical extension of Guthrie rather than a pure biter. I love Folkways for everything it stands for (though I can't say I fully dig Guthrie, per se, as much as I respect him), but I think that early Dylan and Folkways can be Nice Neighbors (don't knock me for this! Dylan wasn't JUST some soulless city slicker poseur). I've always like the pre-electric Dylan better - before the guy holed himself up so far in his private mind garden that nothing came out but Vincent Price's corpse and some heavy meth residue. But really: Dylan is more than just his own outsized persona.
I'm not a Donovan hater - and I admit I don't have all his Epic records to fully judge - but I just hear something basic and necessary in stuff like "Girl From The North Country." But don't get me started on Baez and Nyro. Jeee-sus. Baez was a honey, but that ululation-cum-"vibrato" peels my paint.
Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.
Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.
Temptation's page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying.
So don't fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.
As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred.
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.
While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.
An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.
Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.
A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not fergit
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.
For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something
They invest in.
While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.
Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn't talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.
While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely.
My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards
False gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough
What else can you show me?
And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine
But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only.
Cut to a few years later and I am listening to the oldies station and Hurdy Gurdy man comes on and blows my wig back. Thus, begins some research into Donovan. Turns out my dad has Sunshine Superman, all beat to hell. After hearing Season of the Witch and the Trip I am totally re-evaluating the cosmic kid.
Still, Dylan just brings too much heat, for too many years, in too many amazing and surprising ways. The fact that he can pull off a duet with Johnny Cash (Girl from the North Country=
Donovan is great, Dylan is the King.
P.S. Dylan's look in Don't Look Back is still one of the best.
Dylans a genius but he didn't make "Get Thy Bearings"
I also dig "Hi it's been a long time" of hurdy gurdy...
But i like Dylan too?
i thought this whole argument was deaded in 1969.
It's like saying you can't like Crunchy & Smooth PB
oh man, the coach house! haha! I've actually seen some cool old geezers play there, but that place is kind depressing.
Dylan v. Donavan
Dylan: He might actually be almost as much of a "genius" as everyman rock critic says he is, but I don't think he's as genius as he thinks he is. He is a prick. and, as has been pointed out, him making fun of Donavan in Don't look back is funny cause he ripped off Woody Guthrie more than anyone in history has ever ripped anyone off. Woody is the shit. Neither Dylan or Donavan are good enough to lick his dead nuts. period. that said, I listen to "Another Side of" through "John Westly Hardin" a lot. I rarely tire of any of those records. Blonde on Blonde is one of the few records that hype can't tarnish. Another funny Dylan being a prick story I read is that Dylan was a total ass to all the musicians in Nashville when he recorded Blonde on Blonde. Just rude. And those Nashville players are really what puts that record on another level moreso than the songs. That is my opinion.
Donavan: the song hurdy gurdy man still blows my mind everytime I hear it. I don't listen to him very often though. I think I've only kept one or two of his records. His Epic stuff is totally original. He is cool.
I'll take Woody Guthrie.
Oh, and someone mentioned Phil Ochs - "Pleasures of the Harbor" is almost better than anything by Dylan or Donavan. I love that record!
Dylan did Subterranean Homesick Blues
I dunno.
I thought it was the Jeff Beck Group on Barabajagal and Led Zepp. on the track Hurdy Gurdy Man. Am I wrong?
Yeah but there's plenty of tracks with Beck, Page and Ritchie Blackmore in their teens contributing face-melting, out-of-left-field-solos on lots of tracks from that time period.