NATURE OF THE THREAD OF THE DEEJERY

noznoz 3,625 Posts
edited January 2009 in Strut Central
http://www.youngandthefly.com/2009/01/ras-kass-speaks-on-who-should-be-in-hip.html
In a quest to find the Goat Id like to submit applicants for the Hall of Flame.Hall of Flame:LL Cool J Rakim KRS1 ScarFace Big Daddy Kane Biggie Tupac Special Ed Kool G Rap Nas Big Punisher Big L Mc Shan JazO JayZ GZA Buckshot Mos Def Talib Kweli Jadakiss Styles P Juelz Santana Ice Cube Ludacris TI Eminem DOC Common Skills Ras Kass Malice (Clipse) Llyod Banks Keith Murray Canibus Kurupt Killah Priest Andre 3000 Twista Pharoah Monch Redman Jayo Felony Raekwon Ghostface Busta Rhymes Fabolous Yukmouth Crooked I OC BlackThought Tray Deee BG Joe Buddens Royce59 Cassidy Slick Rick ChinoXL Planet Asia, Lupe Fiasco Lil Wayne(No Disrespect, there are many dope rappers who I just don't consider lyricists. There is a difference)Groups:Run DMC EPMD Smiff and Wessun The Lox Outkast Onyx Public Enemy Dogg Pound Pete Rock & CL Smooth Ultramagnetic MCs Brand Nubian ATCQ Clipse Whodini UGK Gangstarr NWA Camp Lo Dead Prez De la Soul Cypress HillFemale MCs:Queen Latifah MC Lyte Lauren Hill Shawnna[/b]
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  Comments


  • selperfugeselperfuge 1,165 Posts

  • Tray Deee [sic], not just a rapper but a LYRICIST.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    this may surprise u but in fact lots of ppl think shawnna is a quite a good rapper just fyi

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    Worst picks ever.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    i mean unless yr on some 'she must have sucked xyz's dick to get where she is' i still dont get why the notion that shes taken seriously as a rapper is so omgwtflol

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    Dude should have the "Hall of Flame" disbanded for even suggesting that Lupe Fiasco be an applicant.

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    I must commend Ras Kass for the first dude to ever give "best rapper" status to San Diego's own Jayo Felony. Hooray!

  • You jest, but "Sherm Stick" is classique

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    WHERE IS Z-RO?

    B/W

    HOW WAS HE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALICE AND PUSHA TO RECOMMEND ONE AND NOT THE OTHER?

  • noznoz 3,625 Posts
    this may surprise u but in fact lots of ppl think shawnna is a quite a good rapper just fyi

    i never meet these ppl irl

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    HOW WAS HE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALICE AND PUSHA TO RECOMMEND ONE AND NOT THE OTHER?

    Pusha T is the one with the boring monotone voice. oh wait...

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    this may surprise u but in fact lots of ppl think shawnna is a quite a good rapper just fyi

    i never meet these ppl irl
    do these ppl exist irl or just in chicago

  • phongonephongone 1,652 Posts
    *Applauds Paycheck's west coast rap knowledge*

  • I grew up on the hardscrabble turf of North Berkeley. ITS IN MY VEINS

  • PABLOPABLO 1,921 Posts

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    hahaha
    who is that fat one?

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    *Applauds Paycheck's west coast rap knowledge*

    Sherm Stick was a minor hit BITD. Didn't Jayo also do a popular bootleg verse on Down for my N*ggas too?


  • hahaha
    who is that fat one?

    that's deej

    can't u see the ))o_O(( ?

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    this may surprise u but in fact lots of ppl think shawnna is a quite a good rapper just fyi

    i never meet these ppl irl
    do these ppl exist irl or just in chicago
    yet somehow you know wale fans irl??

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    this may surprise u but in fact lots of ppl think shawnna is a quite a good rapper just fyi

    i never meet these ppl irl
    do these ppl exist irl or just in chicago
    yet somehow you know wale fans irl??
    i don't

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    supposed to be a reply to noz -- my bad


  • I like how Joe Buddens and Cassidy were mentioned before Slick Rick

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    I like how Joe Buddens and Cassidy were mentioned at all

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,799 Posts



  • magneticmagnetic 2,678 Posts
    http://www.youngandthefly.com/2009/01/ras-kass-speaks-on-who-should-be-in-hip.html


    In a quest to find the Goat Id like to submit applicants for the Hall of Flame.

    Hall of Flame:
    LL Cool J Rakim KRS1 ScarFace Big Daddy Kane Biggie Tupac Special Ed Kool G Rap Nas Big Punisher Big L Mc Shan JazO JayZ GZA Buckshot Mos Def Talib Kweli Jadakiss Styles P Juelz Santana Ice Cube Ludacris TI Eminem DOC Common Skills Ras Kass Malice (Clipse) Llyod Banks[/b] Keith Murray Canibus Kurupt Killah Priest Andre 3000 Twista Pharoah Monch Redman Jayo Felony Raekwon Ghostface Busta Rhymes Fabolous Yukmouth Crooked I OC BlackThought Tray Deee BG Joe Buddens Royce59 Cassidy Slick Rick ChinoXL Planet Asia, Lupe Fiasco Lil Wayne
    (No Disrespect, there are many dope rappers who I just don't consider lyricists. There is a difference)
    Groups:
    Run DMC EPMD Smiff and Wessun The Lox Outkast Onyx Public Enemy Dogg Pound Pete Rock & CL Smooth Ultramagnetic MCs Brand Nubian ATCQ Clipse Whodini UGK Gangstarr NWA Camp Lo Dead Prez De la Soul Cypress Hill

    Female MCs:

    Queen Latifah MC Lyte Lauren Hill Shawnna[/b]

    typo and all.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Hall of Flame:

    Special Ed ........................Kool G Rap


    (No Disrespect, there are many dope rappers who I just don't consider lyricists. There is a difference)



  • Hall of Flame:

    Special Ed ........................Kool G Rap


    (No Disrespect, there are many dope rappers who I just don't consider lyricists. There is a difference)



    do you not consider kool g rap to be a lyricist? I feel like there have been debates on special ed in the past, but is G Rap laughable? I'm confused.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    noz: you should have quoted the entire PRE-list part of Ras Kass's post:

    Hey Young World,
    (actually, half the rap games name is "Yung" nowadays. lol)

    What up everybody! Happy New Years, I hope your 2009 (and especially mine) is better than 2008!! God willing...
    Well, with the year winding down we get to the inevitable list of lists: you know, from NewsWeek to Entertainment Weekly, the lists of top this, and top that... countdowns; all of the lists -essentially opinions- but for the most of them given some degree of legitimacy becuz they were compiled by "experts" in their perspective medium/field. And now, with the culmination of the Entertainment Industries "Top" list; the Academy Awards, I'm reminded of the age old debate (argument really) held in barbershops around the world; Raps search for the elusive and exclusive GOAT[/b]!
    Now when I mention GOAT, the fact is that its arguably impossible to pick just one, single MC but just the process people use to the Top 20 names on a list of of prospective GOATS is what..pun intended, gets my goat. lol
    For starters, rappers are one of the only groups in the Entertainment Industry (American job force really) who have no Union or Guild. Thus, they are easily pit against one another by labels, lawyers, etc... and have no unified voice. Which means, unlike the movie Industry (Actors/Actresses) we have no way to gauge who our "peers" and contemporaries regard as doing exemplary work. The result is Validation by Soundscan which is actually a contradiction in terms; compared to an Academy Awards who merits "greatness" and is peer driven, a Grammy is based on consumers, not "experts" and more akin to a Peoples Choice Award. Hardly as exclusive and of aesthetic value. (No Disrespect)
    Academy award (best actor, best actress, best movie) winners actually tend to be under-performers at the box office. The same way alot of the more avante garde/creative/lyrical hip hop albums tend to be relegated to the "underground." Whic was fine apparently in the beginning..remeber Q-Tip, "rap is not pop, if you call it that stop"? Everybody from NWA to De La Soul stressed not "selling out."
    Unfortunately, once some of our more outstanding (lyrical) MC's also achieved commercial success they became a little hypocritical,and set the bar ridiculously high saying " You're not great if you dont sell 5 million albums like I did" But these same people were given "great" status before[/b] they hadplatinum albums based soley on thier talent. But we all fell for it, and somewhere down the line weve found out that weve lost our way..
    There are many awards shows in rap. Each with its own agenda, politics, and bias: Source Awards (remember Benzino?) XXL (remember the Eminem beef), Ozone (southern-centric) BET (ditto) Grammy's (RIAA) etc... but no one, true quintessential show that fairly covers the full spectrum and diversity of hip hop. Id love to be at the award show where JayZ gives a rookie of the year award to Elzhi or Nelly giving out a "Lifetime Achievment Award" to the family of Marlon Brando (RIP) of the Sporty Thievez (who in my opinion is the greatest true hero of hip hop, every major rap magazine dropped the ball and continue to drop it with his passing. Sorry, he wasnt "HOT", shameful)
    So what is the criteria for judging the GOAT? I mean, at some point you do have to assimilate commercial success based on the social impact and relevance a rapper has. But is it long term or fleeting? Kwame had gang members rockin polka dots! Deadass.. But that was so ephemeral. (Again, no disrespect) Wheras, the impact of Tupac Shakur can still be registered today; you saw Pac in his contemporaries from DMX, Ja Rule to newer artists like Plies. JayZ has a legitimate claim, " Jigga held it down for six summers....damn" He garnered the respect of his peers lyrically, polarized the streets and move the units to become a mogul. Eminem has the legs to stand on too in sheer units sold per album - the boy did diamond (10 million) 3 out of 4 albums! He who coined the term of course, LL: 13 Albums! He made Def Jam. "Im Bad!"
    And again, thats where record sales being the premise to judge relevance or importance is a crock of shit. If we calim for GOAThood based strictly on that, then you have to automatically put these rappers in your top 20 List:
    Young MC
    Vanilla Ice
    Souljah Boy
    MC Hammer

    again no disrespect but it underscores how outlandish records sales are for induction into HIP HOP HALL OF FLAME. Not discounting sales totally, you do have to get in the league to play in the ALL STAR GAME.lol
    So Id go as far as to try to name judging criteria for the HALL OF FLAME to eventually determining the GOAT.

    Musical Factors:
    1. Orginality
    2. Volume of Work (or lack of it)
    3. Song/Album Concepts
    4. WordPlay
    5. Consistency/Growth
    6. Live Performance
    7. Style/ Delivery
    8. Freestyle Ability
    9. Guest Appearances (Murk Outs)
    10. Peer Impact/ Relevance
    11. Club/Street "Bangers"

    Personal Factors:
    1. Charisma (Swagger)
    2. Mogul Moves (upward mobility)
    3. Consumer (social impact)
    4. "Ghostwriterless-ness"

    ( I encourage you to add or amend these criteria in your comments as you see fit.)

    I think 10 is very important ??? you cant be the greatest if you get bodied on your own songs.


    I hope I have created a dialogue with a sensible foundation. Have a Happy New Year!

    One Mic,
    Ras

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    Hall of Flame:

    Special Ed ........................Kool G Rap


    (No Disrespect, there are many dope rappers who I just don't consider lyricists. There is a difference)



    do you not consider kool g rap to be a lyricist? I feel like there have been debates on special ed in the past, but is G Rap laughable? I'm confused.

    Special Ed and Kool G Rap should never be mentioned in the same breath.
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