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mournng the loss of virtuosity in {pop] music

kalakala 3,361 Posts
edited April 2008 in Strut Central
i just finished up the last couple of weeks recording some suck-cess-full metal and "emo" rock bandsdudes had trouble tuning their instruments,playing on the 1/beatand staying "in key"/in tunewhat a sorry phucking messvery little guitar solos and when they did solo ,the shit was worse than kerry kingon acidthank jah for cut and paste/pitch shift/auto tune softwarei started ruminating at the loss of solos in general in pop/the top 50 and how out of vouge it is, being able to have command over your instrument even for 8-16 barsi guess that started when"grunge"came inthis is a trend that has been going on for awhile now and i realize i am pointing out the obviousbut gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time lowi had to go home and listen to some coltrane and holdsworth to cleanse out my braini realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [charlie hunter,dap kings,budos, les claypool, etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore[empty-v,ring tones,vh-1,etc]
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  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    i guess that started when"grunge"came in

    have you ever heard of garage or punk???
  • funky16cornersfunky16corners 7,175 Posts
    i guess that started when"grunge"came in

    have you ever heard of garage or punk???

    Seriously.
    If anything we're mired in an age of slick crap. I'll give up "virtuosity" for some raw emotion any day.
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    i guess that started when"grunge"came in

    have you ever heard of garage or punk???


    yeah man
    but i was talking about "pop"
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    POP
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    i guess that started when"grunge"came in

    have you ever heard of garage or punk???

    Seriously.
    If anything we're mired in an age of slick crap. I'll give up "virtuosity" for some raw emotion any day.

    agreed
    but there is no "raw emotion" in the top 100

    everything is programmed for becky,quantized and pro-tooled to death
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    no doubt, we're living in a producers era

    I sure as fuck don't wanna be listening to les claypool tho


    {/barf}
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    in the tri state area we have one real jazz station -listener supported wbgo out of newark
    thats basically the only outlet to hear folks that can play their instruments

    not to exclude wfmu/wnyu/wbai/wfuv which all have great programming but totally on the sporadic haphazard/low end of the dial and only fmu being "on" all the time


    also - how can one dismiss a love supreme as "not raw" or emotive even though there are sweet sheets of sound coming at you?
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    no doubt, we're living in a producers era

    I sure as fuck don't wanna be listening to les claypool tho


    {/barf}

    well ,dude can play his ass off in spite of the crappy music he puts out
    i was never into primus but homey was killin it in blind illusion
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    country music is bigger than ever

    those dudes can play

  • deLYSdeLYS 388 Posts
    Different defintion of producer though. I think the days being referred to are more along the lines of producers gathering live personnel and putting the ingredients together in a different context of orchestration.
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    country music is bigger than ever

    those dudes can play


    agreed-there are guitar solos on "country"
    but at its core I have a hard time calling it "country "
    it sounds like aor rock minus the keys/prog-ish/jazz elements [kansas,steely dan,edgar winter,deep purple,et al]
  • deLYSdeLYS 388 Posts

    This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    I think its more like tom petty, john cougar concentration camp, bon jovi, bryan adams & springsteeeeen

    ugh
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    I think its more like tom petty, john cougar concentration camp, bon jovi, bryan adams & springsteeeeen

    ugh

    arghhhhhh is right
    but this shit still goes muti platinum

    I couldn't beleive how huge bon jovi still is in Italy

    which ain't sayin much
    considering how bad italian pop is
    and the only light in the dark of the entire italian music scene being prog/library
  • CBearCBear 902 Posts
    The music somehow seems more calculated now, like it's created to satisfy a certain market. Maybe that's how it's always been, and I had an unrealistic amount of idealism.

    I always look at the clothes when I have to walk through a department store to get to the parking lot. I think to myself, "who buys this crap?" Then I realize it's what sells.

    Same reason fast food places put out crappy, fattening, sugary foods. It's what sells. If everyone wanted tofu, they'd be selling McVirtous meals.
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts

    This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.

    this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?

    he does shred



    that song is already a classic in the corny country genre
  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    I had an unrealistic amount of idealism.

    story of my life B/w I expect too much from most people


  • deLYSdeLYS 388 Posts
  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,332 Posts
    "Mass consumption" usually equals "accessible" usually equals "following a trend" often times equals "unoriginal" often times leads to the question "Does the music hold any weight?" my2cents.
  • SouthCrackalackSouthCrackalack 3,853 Posts

    This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.

    this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?



    HUH?
  • deLYSdeLYS 388 Posts
    this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?

    he does shred



    that song is already a classic in the corny country genre
    This genre is like enjoyable kryptonite for my senses and that song title is most excellent. He gets the hook up even for the pricey guitar cables so he better shred!
  • pickwick33pickwick33 8,946 Posts

    i had to go home and listen to some holdsworth[/b] to cleanse out my brain

    i realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [les claypool[/b], etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore


    sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

    fusion techheads and jam bands can be just as lame as the "emo" kids that kala was engineering today, but thats just my own bias talking

    (holdsworth and claypool - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    skilled musicians are not enough to make enjoyable music
  • deLYSdeLYS 388 Posts

    i had to go home and listen to some holdsworth[/b] to cleanse out my brain

    i realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [les claypool[/b], etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore


    sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

    fusion techheads and jam bands can be just as lame as the "emo" kids that kala was engineering today, but thats just my own bias talking

    (holdsworth and claypool - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

    Nah you hit the nail on the head that whole specialization/musicianship genre can SUCK and I think theres a reason why some sidemen who might slay the competetion or have a solo opportunity stick with the formula, cause they appreciate music as a collective as do I.

    Though kala I share your desire to knock a guitar player over the head with a paul gilbert instructional tape or a stanley jordan record or something for just not knowing shit, but most 'emo' bands just want to look the part and have you hit the "EPIC" button to make it happen for 'em.
  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    but gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time low


  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    I now have much clearer mental picture of the one called Kala

  • kalakala 3,361 Posts
    but gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time low



    well
    did you buy "a time to love"?

    he hasn't released anything since 1985 and then that came out
    its tepid at best,getting played basically only on cd 101.9
    even prince's wankery failed to funktify it..... a little
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    I now have much clearer mental picture of the one called Kala


    kala shredding on the chapman stick lol

  • luckluck 4,077 Posts
    sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

    skilled musicians are not enough to make enjoyable music


    Cases in point: STEELY DAN
  • UkranianLandlordUkranianLandlord 145 Posts

    which ain't sayin much
    considering how bad italian pop is
    and the only light in the dark of the entire italian music scene being prog/library

    So true!
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