mournng the loss of virtuosity in {pop] music

kala

i just finished up the last couple of weeks recording some suck-cess-full metal and "emo" rock bandsdudes had trouble tuning their instruments,playing on the 1/beatand staying "in key"/in tunewhat a sorry phucking messvery little guitar solos and when they did solo ,the shit was worse than kerry kingon acidthank jah for cut and paste/pitch shift/auto tune softwarei started ruminating at the loss of solos in general in pop/the top 50 and how out of vouge it is, being able to have command over your instrument even for 8-16 barsi guess that started when"grunge"came inthis is a trend that has been going on for awhile now and i realize i am pointing out the obviousbut gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time lowi had to go home and listen to some coltrane and holdsworth to cleanse out my braini realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [charlie hunter,dap kings,budos, les claypool, etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore[empty-v,ring tones,vh-1,etc]

Soulhawk

i guess that started when"grunge"came in

have you ever heard of garage or punk???

funky16corners

i guess that started when"grunge"came in

have you ever heard of garage or punk???

Seriously.
If anything we're mired in an age of slick crap. I'll give up "virtuosity" for some raw emotion any day.

kala

i guess that started when"grunge"came in

have you ever heard of garage or punk???

yeah man
but i was talking about "pop"

batmon

POP

kala

i guess that started when"grunge"came in

have you ever heard of garage or punk???

Seriously.
If anything we're mired in an age of slick crap. I'll give up "virtuosity" for some raw emotion any day.

agreed
but there is no "raw emotion" in the top 100

everything is programmed for becky,quantized and pro-tooled to death

Soulhawk

no doubt, we're living in a producers era

I sure as fuck don't wanna be listening to les claypool tho


{/barf}

kala

in the tri state area we have one real jazz station -listener supported wbgo out of newark
thats basically the only outlet to hear folks that can play their instruments

not to exclude wfmu/wnyu/wbai/wfuv which all have great programming but totally on the sporadic haphazard/low end of the dial and only fmu being "on" all the time


also - how can one dismiss a love supreme as "not raw" or emotive even though there are sweet sheets of sound coming at you?

kala

no doubt, we're living in a producers era

I sure as fuck don't wanna be listening to les claypool tho


{/barf}

well ,dude can play his ass off in spite of the crappy music he puts out
i was never into primus but homey was killin it in blind illusion

Soulhawk

country music is bigger than ever

those dudes can play

deLYS

Different defintion of producer though. I think the days being referred to are more along the lines of producers gathering live personnel and putting the ingredients together in a different context of orchestration.

kala

country music is bigger than ever

those dudes can play

agreed-there are guitar solos on "country"
but at its core I have a hard time calling it "country "
it sounds like aor rock minus the keys/prog-ish/jazz elements [kansas,steely dan,edgar winter,deep purple,et al]

deLYS

This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.

Soulhawk

I think its more like tom petty, john cougar concentration camp, bon jovi, bryan adams & springsteeeeen

ugh

kala

I think its more like tom petty, john cougar concentration camp, bon jovi, bryan adams & springsteeeeen

ugh

arghhhhhh is right
but this shit still goes muti platinum

I couldn't beleive how huge bon jovi still is in Italy

which ain't sayin much
considering how bad italian pop is
and the only light in the dark of the entire italian music scene being prog/library

CBear

The music somehow seems more calculated now, like it's created to satisfy a certain market. Maybe that's how it's always been, and I had an unrealistic amount of idealism.

I always look at the clothes when I have to walk through a department store to get to the parking lot. I think to myself, "who buys this crap?" Then I realize it's what sells.

Same reason fast food places put out crappy, fattening, sugary foods. It's what sells. If everyone wanted tofu, they'd be selling McVirtous meals.

Soulhawk

This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.

this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?

he does shred



that song is already a classic in the corny country genre

kala

I had an unrealistic amount of idealism.

story of my life B/w I expect too much from most people

deLYS

yuichi

"Mass consumption" usually equals "accessible" usually equals "following a trend" often times equals "unoriginal" often times leads to the question "Does the music hold any weight?" my2cents.

SouthCrackalack

This dudes tone gets sweated, I never heard him but no thanks! I heard Dr. Z's a bit of a whiner anyways.

this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?

HUH?

deLYS

this is the 'i'd like to check you for ticks' guy right?

he does shred



that song is already a classic in the corny country genre

This genre is like enjoyable kryptonite for my senses and that song title is most excellent. He gets the hook up even for the pricey guitar cables so he better shred!

pickwick33

i had to go home and listen to some holdsworth[/b] to cleanse out my brain

i realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [les claypool[/b], etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore

sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

fusion techheads and jam bands can be just as lame as the "emo" kids that kala was engineering today, but thats just my own bias talking

(holdsworth and claypool - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Soulhawk

skilled musicians are not enough to make enjoyable music

deLYS

i had to go home and listen to some holdsworth[/b] to cleanse out my brain

i realize there are many many folks who are alive and can shred [les claypool[/b], etc] but they are few and far between and you will never hear it in a pop context anymore

sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

fusion techheads and jam bands can be just as lame as the "emo" kids that kala was engineering today, but thats just my own bias talking

(holdsworth and claypool - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

Nah you hit the nail on the head that whole specialization/musicianship genre can SUCK and I think theres a reason why some sidemen who might slay the competetion or have a solo opportunity stick with the formula, cause they appreciate music as a collective as do I.

Though kala I share your desire to knock a guitar player over the head with a paul gilbert instructional tape or a stanley jordan record or something for just not knowing shit, but most 'emo' bands just want to look the part and have you hit the "EPIC" button to make it happen for 'em.

batmon

but gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time low

hcrink

I now have much clearer mental picture of the one called Kala

kala

but gottdamm i think as a culture we are at an all time low

well
did you buy "a time to love"?

he hasn't released anything since 1985 and then that came out
its tepid at best,getting played basically only on cd 101.9
even prince's wankery failed to funktify it..... a little

Soulhawk

I now have much clearer mental picture of the one called Kala

kala shredding on the chapman stick lol

luck

sometimes the only thing worse than "musicians" who can't play are Musicians who can.

skilled musicians are not enough to make enjoyable music

Cases in point: STEELY DAN

UkranianLandlord

which ain't sayin much
considering how bad italian pop is
and the only light in the dark of the entire italian music scene being prog/library

So true!