Harvey: NOLA is one of the greatest port cities in this hemisphere. It's been the gateway for migration (into and out of) for centuries before the "US" ever existed as a nation. And one of the primary corridors of exchange was between Havana and New Orleans, *especially* for Black people (and their music) during and after emancipation in both countries.
It's hardly controversial to suggest that Afro-Cuban rhythm was a part of New Orleans' heritage long before ragtime, let alone jazz, let alone the Mardi Gras Indians (whose music is said to be rumba-influenced) came along. Trace the history of Cuban tango/habanera in 19th century New Orleans music
None of this denies New Orleans' importance to American music. But the city wasn't hermetically sealed off, so that cultural developments within it were somehow purely isolated or organic.
If you want a short read on the topic, check for Ned Sublette's "The Kingsmen and Cha-Cha-Ch??" (from the anthology "Listen Again"). If you want along read, check Ned's "Cuba and Its Music". I quote from the latter:
"New Orleans is of such key importance to American music because historical factors combined to make it the strongest center of African musical practice in the United States, and, cliches aside, that practice really did travel up the Mississippi and did spread overland."
So Ned is giving it up for New Orleans and he would never, ever deny the city is due (his next book is all about the history of New Orleans and its music, in fact). But he's also pointing out that if we're tracing the history of syncopation and polyrhythm in music from the city, it's inseparable from the influx of culture (and bodies) from Cuba, and in particular, of people of African descent who come from musically different regions of Africa than those who ended up populating the U.S.
But, to get back to the point: if we're debating "who created funk" - I wouldn't say it's Cuba. And I think there's a good argument to be made for NOLA's impact/influence. But if we're going to take it there then I think it's better to have an open mind to looking at funk in the long view, in which case, Afro-Cuban influence has to be a part of that convo even if we don't hand a blue ribbon over to Havana.
This question all depends on what we're defining as IMPORTANT? Is there a female equivalent to the importance, longevity, and acclaim as James Brown? None that I can think of?
To me important means: laid the groundwork, influenced others, cultural signifigance, a definitive authority on the genre.
With that said, I'm going to rep Marva Whitney for funk, and Aretha franklin for Soul, and Sharon Jones for the current champ.
To me important means: laid the groundwork, influenced others, cultural signifigance, a definitive authority on the genre.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
And Batmon, the Dixie Cups were there...translating second line traditions to a pop format.
"Iko Iko" is the only track I've heard by the Dixie Cups that sounds blatantly like New Orleans. With everything else, including "Chapel Of Love", the NOLA thing is real subtle. They could have been from anywhere.
I love NOLA music too, but I ain't deaf - to call the Dixie Cups funk is stretching it. As far as "Big Chief," I hear the innovations, but it still comes out of the wash sounding like any R&B dance record of the early part of the sixties.
Don't go getting carried away with definitions. I wouldn't take away from the originators, but let's face it...first there's Proto-Funk and then there's Funk As We Know It. I once had a similar discussion with some guy who thought that Sam & Dave's "Soul Man" was a genuine funk record (hell yes I disagreed).
Right, Iko Iko is probably the most blatant example of second line traditions put to pop music up to that point...in that beyond its second-line-styled beat, the lyrics are pulled directly from the Mardi Gras Indians' vernacular. And that's the reason why I brought the Dixie Cups up...as they were part of a movement that was very overt in its applications of street music to pop music.
And that last point...about street music...speaks right to faux's timely (albeit intended to cut me) post about the culture that surrounds funk music. I'd much rather view funk as a component of an actual functioning street culture rather than as an offshoot of Hollywood, Generica. People are ignoring that the very second line traditions that brought funk into being were fully actualized not just as music on record or as footnotes in a history book, but as a community of people living a funk lifestyle. There is so much more meaning to NOLA funk than just be a freak and shake your ass. James Brown certainly wasn't lost on this idea as he was quick to usher in all sorts of social value to his music right about the same time he adopted funk as his new forte. But still a whole lot of the original social value of funk as a music driving an attached culture was lost when the music was exported from New Orleans.
So rather than looking to a watered-down version of the real deal for all of the answers, I'm sticking to the real deal as I've known it, as I"ve lived it, and as I've been forced to see others bastardize into lesser forms of a cultural experience.
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Harvey: NOLA is one of the greatest port cities in this hemisphere. It's been the gateway for migration (into and out of) for centuries before the "US" ever existed as a nation. And one of the primary corridors of exchange was between Havana and New Orleans, *especially* for Black people (and their music) during and after emancipation in both countries.
It's hardly controversial to suggest that Afro-Cuban rhythm was a part of New Orleans' heritage long before ragtime, let alone jazz, let alone the Mardi Gras Indians (whose music is said to be rumba-influenced) came along. Trace the history of Cuban tango/habanera in 19th century New Orleans music
None of this denies New Orleans' importance to American music. But the city wasn't hermetically sealed off, so that cultural developments within it were somehow purely isolated or organic.
If you want a short read on the topic, check for Ned Sublette's "The Kingsmen and Cha-Cha-Ch??" (from the anthology "Listen Again"). If you want along read, check Ned's "Cuba and Its Music". I quote from the latter:
"New Orleans is of such key importance to American music because historical factors combined to make it the strongest center of African musical practice in the United States, and, cliches aside, that practice really did travel up the Mississippi and did spread overland."
So Ned is giving it up for New Orleans and he would never, ever deny the city is due (his next book is all about the history of New Orleans and its music, in fact). But he's also pointing out that if we're tracing the history of syncopation and polyrhythm in music from the city, it's inseparable from the influx of culture (and bodies) from Cuba, and in particular, of people of African descent who come from musically different regions of Africa than those who ended up populating the U.S.
But, to get back to the point: if we're debating "who created funk" - I wouldn't say it's Cuba. And I think there's a good argument to be made for NOLA's impact/influence. But if we're going to take it there then I think it's better to have an open mind to looking at funk in the long view, in which case, Afro-Cuban influence has to be a part of that convo even if we don't hand a blue ribbon over to Havana.
That's all well and good...as New Orleans was controlled by the Spanish for a good chunk of its history. But in relation to the music that has come out of New Orleans the past 100 years...French control and thus an influx of people/traditions from Haiti presents a more significant vehicle of influence. In other words, if you talk to people in New Orleans...you are going to get a whole lot more people citing Haiti as an influence than they ever will Cuba.
But still, whether it be Haiti and/or Cuba...those Afro-rhythms were translated into an Euro-American marching band thing at least 100 years ago. Then that turned into jazz. Then once jazz gave way to simpler forms of r-n-b and rock-n-roll, the people/artists of New Orleans made yet another conscious effort to incorporate those old marching band street rhythms into what by the late-50's was a music almost entirely divorced from the previous standard. And based off of them doing that, funk emerged.
And that last point...about street music...speaks right to faux's timely (albeit intended to cut me) post about the culture that surrounds funk music. I'd much rather view funk as a component of an actual functioning street culture rather than as an offshoot of Hollywood, Generica. People are ignoring that the very second line traditions that brought funk into being were fully actualized not just as music on record or as footnotes in a history book, but as a community of people living a funk lifestyle. There is so much more meaning to NOLA funk than just be a freak and shake your ass. James Brown certainly wasn't lost on this idea as he was quick to usher in all sorts of social value to his music right about the same time he adopted funk as his new forte. But still a whole lot of the original social value of funk as a music driving an attached culture was lost when the music was exported from New Orleans.
While i agree w/ ya, were the practicioners viewing themselves as Funk folks?
I recall PhillMost stating in his early years of Hip Hop, that they werent self-concious of the whole Hip Hop culture. It was simply "partying", which I would attach to the fashion,language,mindstate,lifestyle,dancin,etc.
Harvey: NOLA is one of the greatest port cities in this hemisphere. It's been the gateway for migration (into and out of) for centuries before the "US" ever existed as a nation. And one of the primary corridors of exchange was between Havana and New Orleans, *especially* for Black people (and their music) during and after emancipation in both countries.
It's hardly controversial to suggest that Afro-Cuban rhythm was a part of New Orleans' heritage long before ragtime, let alone jazz, let alone the Mardi Gras Indians (whose music is said to be rumba-influenced) came along. Trace the history of Cuban tango/habanera in 19th century New Orleans music
None of this denies New Orleans' importance to American music. But the city wasn't hermetically sealed off, so that cultural developments within it were somehow purely isolated or organic.
If you want a short read on the topic, check for Ned Sublette's "The Kingsmen and Cha-Cha-Ch??" (from the anthology "Listen Again"). If you want along read, check Ned's "Cuba and Its Music". I quote from the latter:
"New Orleans is of such key importance to American music because historical factors combined to make it the strongest center of African musical practice in the United States, and, cliches aside, that practice really did travel up the Mississippi and did spread overland."
So Ned is giving it up for New Orleans and he would never, ever deny the city is due (his next book is all about the history of New Orleans and its music, in fact). But he's also pointing out that if we're tracing the history of syncopation and polyrhythm in music from the city, it's inseparable from the influx of culture (and bodies) from Cuba, and in particular, of people of African descent who come from musically different regions of Africa than those who ended up populating the U.S.
But, to get back to the point: if we're debating "who created funk" - I wouldn't say it's Cuba. And I think there's a good argument to be made for NOLA's impact/influence. But if we're going to take it there then I think it's better to have an open mind to looking at funk in the long view, in which case, Afro-Cuban influence has to be a part of that convo even if we don't hand a blue ribbon over to Havana.
That's all well and good...as New Orleans was controlled by the Spanish for a good chunk of its history. But in relation to the music that has come out of New Orleans the past 100 years...French control and thus an influx of people/traditions from Haiti presents a more significant vehicle of influence. In other words, if you talk to people in New Orleans...you are going to get a whole lot more people citing Haiti as an influence than they ever will Cuba.
But still, whether it be Haiti and/or Cuba...those Afro-rhythms were translated into an Euro-American marching band thing at least 100 years ago. Then that turned into jazz. Then once jazz gave way to simpler forms of r-n-b and rock-n-roll, the people/artists of New Orleans made yet another conscious effort to incorporate those old marching band street rhythms into what by the late-50's was a music almost entirely divorced from the previous standard. And based off of them doing that, funk emerged.
I can roll with that.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
And that last point...about street music...speaks right to faux's timely (albeit intended to cut me) post about the culture that surrounds funk music. I'd much rather view funk as a component of an actual functioning street culture rather than as an offshoot of Hollywood, Generica. People are ignoring that the very second line traditions that brought funk into being were fully actualized not just as music on record or as footnotes in a history book, but as a community of people living a funk lifestyle. There is so much more meaning to NOLA funk than just be a freak and shake your ass. James Brown certainly wasn't lost on this idea as he was quick to usher in all sorts of social value to his music right about the same time he adopted funk as his new forte. But still a whole lot of the original social value of funk as a music driving an attached culture was lost when the music was exported from New Orleans.
While i agree w/ ya, were the practicioners viewing themselves as Funk folks?
I recall PhillMost stating in his early years of Hip Hop, that they werent self-concious of the whole Hip Hop culture. It was simply "partying", which I would attach to the fashion,language,mindstate,lifestyle,dancin,etc.
In New Orleans, the music and the culture were definitely interlocked...consciously. For funerals, marching bands would parade a casket through the streets playing dirges...then at a certain point shift into jubilant (funk) music as a means for attendees to escape their sorrows (and celbrate life rather than only agonizing over the loss of it). The musicians and people (second-liners) in those parades would go to great lengths to make sure they were wearing the appropriate clothes. Certain sayings/slogans developed. Food was natuarlly a big part of it too...as everyone in a parade was sure to be fed, from block to block by people cooking gumbo/jambalaya/red beans and rice/etc. out of their backyards. The musicians were also part of social clubs that among other things provided insurance to those participants who couldn't buy insurance through more mainstream routes. In full, from top to bottom...yes, people definitely were aware that there was a set of traditions at work that formulated a culture at large. They just didn't call themselves funk.
I don't want to sound like I don't have love for Chaka Khan, but I can't see her as being more important than Jackson, in influence and shaping the sound, seeing as she started putting out records at least four or five years after Jackson.
Like Millie, Chaka also tried other genres - jazz, rap, house, pop - so I wouldn't really use that as a criteria to take anyone out of the running. I mean chances are you're going to explore other sounds when you're putting as many records as Jackson and Kahn (and Franklin) have and for as long. And the gospel/soul/r&b/funk crossover is natural and inevitable.
I hesitate to make the most famous equal to most important; sometimes the student outshines the teacher, but s/he was still the pupil.
How many signature songs by Millie are str8 Funk vs Chaka's signature songs?
Not many. We would have to agree on signature songs, too...I don't even know what a signature Jackson song would be outside the realm of record nerds and my own private mind garden. Can't say I've ever heard a Jackson song on the radio. And as funky (shudder) as Khan's 'signature' tunes are, they could also fall under dance pop to me.
I know it sounds like I'm arguing against what I said earlier, but I still feel like Jackson plays a heartier role as an architect.
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
funkay/fonkay/funky makes me cringe - same category as eggs benny. AAAAHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG
Phunky/Fonky/Fawkkeeeeeeeeee......
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
Except that Jamaicans didn't make hip-hop ala the way that NOLA artists pre-Cold Sweat were indeed making funk.
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
Except that Jamaicans didn't make hip-hop ala the way that NOLA artists pre-Cold Sweat were indeed making funk.
I still don't see where any of your argument, helps us discuss the most important female funk artist.
You got someone from the Nola in mind?
- spidey
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
Except that Jamaicans didn't make hip-hop ala the way that NOLA artists pre-Cold Sweat were indeed making funk.
I still don't see where any of your argument, helps us discuss the most important female funk artist.
You got someone from the Nola in mind?
- spidey
I know this is the first time that a soulstrut thread has ever been sidetracked into a parallel discussion, but please don't throw me in the briar patch.
Ya see, "Papa's Brand New Bag" told ya funk was COMING. "Cold Sweat" said FUNK IS HERE.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
Except that Jamaicans didn't make hip-hop ala the way that NOLA artists pre-Cold Sweat were indeed making funk.
I still don't see where any of your argument, helps us discuss the most important female funk artist.
I think he was extending the para-METERS beyond the popular James Brown paradigm shift,so we can have a clearer landscape to choose from.
As for the funk. Today I am totally siding with HC. Especially his culture argument. If it doesn't come from your culture is it real?
All over the Americas, from the tip of Argentina to Montreal Africans kept rhythms and melodies and religion alive. In some places like Haiti and Brazil and NOLA some traditions were almost nurtured.
Spanky, you still need to define important. The reason I say that is because I have problems with calling Lyn Collins or Marva Whitney, the most important IF important means creating. I think they sang what JB wanted them to sing in the way he wanted them to sing it over a tracks that he created.
Anyway, I think the most important woman in funk is Sharon Jones.
I need an air freshener under the computer, It's too funky in here!
Dan: I did define important earlier. In this case, it's a combination of influence and popularity.
Sorry I missed that. Let us know who your co-worker picked. Sorry to bust the doors down when you were just asking Pick anyway. Also let us know who you picked.
She was thinking LaBelle but wasn't really pushing her that hard.
I like the idea of Labelle the group. They might have come to funk a little late (or not at all?) but you have 3 strong women, some of whom were good writers. I said Sara Dash earlier.
That whole type of exclusionary treatment when it comes to funk is short-sighted and ultimately wrong.
Yes, then no.
So rather than looking to a watered-down version of the real deal for all of the answers, I'm sticking to the real deal as I've known it, as I"ve lived it, and as I've been forced to see others bastardize into lesser forms of a cultural experience.
Dude: stop. You're killing me. This is music we're talking about - not the status of the Bill Of Rights. Organic social movements are not bourne of static stuff and do not have set numbers. There are vague milestones and interpersonal influences - sure. And you've noted some of the international influences upon the NOLA rhythms and culture. But no one is doubting this. You're arguing Good versus Evil and Yesses and Nos when we're looking for opinions. I mean, you're essentially arguing hypotheticals-based-on-preferences at worst. THERE WAS NO FIRST FUNK SONG. THERE WAS NO FIRST SOUL OR ROCK OR JAZZ OR GOSPEL SONG. That kind of lockstep genre-talk is totally irrelevant.
It's got the drums, it's got the bassline, it's got the horns...and IMO it is the most pure form of what funk is that has ever been recorded. All James Brown or anybody after that ever did up to Sly Stone was dress it up a bit.
Comments
It's hardly controversial to suggest that Afro-Cuban rhythm was a part of New Orleans' heritage long before ragtime, let alone jazz, let alone the Mardi Gras Indians (whose music is said to be rumba-influenced) came along. Trace the history of Cuban tango/habanera in 19th century New Orleans music
None of this denies New Orleans' importance to American music. But the city wasn't hermetically sealed off, so that cultural developments within it were somehow purely isolated or organic.
If you want a short read on the topic, check for Ned Sublette's "The Kingsmen and Cha-Cha-Ch??" (from the anthology "Listen Again"). If you want along read, check Ned's "Cuba and Its Music". I quote from the latter:
"New Orleans is of such key importance to American music because historical factors combined to make it the strongest center of African musical practice in the United States, and, cliches aside, that practice really did travel up the Mississippi and did spread overland."
So Ned is giving it up for New Orleans and he would never, ever deny the city is due (his next book is all about the history of New Orleans and its music, in fact). But he's also pointing out that if we're tracing the history of syncopation and polyrhythm in music from the city, it's inseparable from the influx of culture (and bodies) from Cuba, and in particular, of people of African descent who come from musically different regions of Africa than those who ended up populating the U.S.
But, to get back to the point: if we're debating "who created funk" - I wouldn't say it's Cuba. And I think there's a good argument to be made for NOLA's impact/influence. But if we're going to take it there then I think it's better to have an open mind to looking at funk in the long view, in which case, Afro-Cuban influence has to be a part of that convo even if we don't hand a blue ribbon over to Havana.
To me important means: laid the groundwork, influenced others, cultural signifigance, a definitive authority on the genre.
With that said, I'm going to rep Marva Whitney for funk, and Aretha franklin for Soul, and Sharon Jones for the current champ.
- spidey
Just to throw this in there: "Iko Iko" = Cuban clave, all the way.
Cheers!
Right, Iko Iko is probably the most blatant example of second line traditions put to pop music up to that point...in that beyond its second-line-styled beat, the lyrics are pulled directly from the Mardi Gras Indians' vernacular. And that's the reason why I brought the Dixie Cups up...as they were part of a movement that was very overt in its applications of street music to pop music.
And that last point...about street music...speaks right to faux's timely (albeit intended to cut me) post about the culture that surrounds funk music. I'd much rather view funk as a component of an actual functioning street culture rather than as an offshoot of Hollywood, Generica. People are ignoring that the very second line traditions that brought funk into being were fully actualized not just as music on record or as footnotes in a history book, but as a community of people living a funk lifestyle. There is so much more meaning to NOLA funk than just be a freak and shake your ass. James Brown certainly wasn't lost on this idea as he was quick to usher in all sorts of social value to his music right about the same time he adopted funk as his new forte. But still a whole lot of the original social value of funk as a music driving an attached culture was lost when the music was exported from New Orleans.
So rather than looking to a watered-down version of the real deal for all of the answers, I'm sticking to the real deal as I've known it, as I"ve lived it, and as I've been forced to see others bastardize into lesser forms of a cultural experience.
I've always felt that Out of Sight was the sign of what was to come.
That's all well and good...as New Orleans was controlled by the Spanish for a good chunk of its history. But in relation to the music that has come out of New Orleans the past 100 years...French control and thus an influx of people/traditions from Haiti presents a more significant vehicle of influence. In other words, if you talk to people in New Orleans...you are going to get a whole lot more people citing Haiti as an influence than they ever will Cuba.
But still, whether it be Haiti and/or Cuba...those Afro-rhythms were translated into an Euro-American marching band thing at least 100 years ago. Then that turned into jazz. Then once jazz gave way to simpler forms of r-n-b and rock-n-roll, the people/artists of New Orleans made yet another conscious effort to incorporate those old marching band street rhythms into what by the late-50's was a music almost entirely divorced from the previous standard. And based off of them doing that, funk emerged.
While i agree w/ ya, were the practicioners viewing themselves as Funk folks?
I recall PhillMost stating in his early years of Hip Hop, that they werent self-concious of the whole Hip Hop culture. It was simply "partying", which I would attach to the fashion,language,mindstate,lifestyle,dancin,etc.
I can roll with that.
In New Orleans, the music and the culture were definitely interlocked...consciously. For funerals, marching bands would parade a casket through the streets playing dirges...then at a certain point shift into jubilant (funk) music as a means for attendees to escape their sorrows (and celbrate life rather than only agonizing over the loss of it). The musicians and people (second-liners) in those parades would go to great lengths to make sure they were wearing the appropriate clothes. Certain sayings/slogans developed. Food was natuarlly a big part of it too...as everyone in a parade was sure to be fed, from block to block by people cooking gumbo/jambalaya/red beans and rice/etc. out of their backyards. The musicians were also part of social clubs that among other things provided insurance to those participants who couldn't buy insurance through more mainstream routes. In full, from top to bottom...yes, people definitely were aware that there was a set of traditions at work that formulated a culture at large. They just didn't call themselves funk.
Not many. We would have to agree on signature songs, too...I don't even know what a signature Jackson song would be outside the realm of record nerds and my own private mind garden. Can't say I've ever heard a Jackson song on the radio.
And as funky (shudder) as Khan's 'signature' tunes are, they could also fall under dance pop to me.
I know it sounds like I'm arguing against what I said earlier, but I still feel like Jackson plays a heartier role as an architect.
That was just a random, pre-1967 example. I could have said "Out Of Sight" just as easily.
Now that's FONKAY!!!
Yeah, understood. I was just throwing out an opinion.
On a funk note. I'm not disagreeing with Harv. But I think he's putting up the influences of NOLA and the genre creating of funk, James brought with things like changing from the upbeat to the downbeat, On the One, etc, etc, etc.
Someone brought up hip hop in the thread. And it just seems like trying to debate if hip hop was created by Herc in the Bronx or by DJ's toastin' in Jamaica.
lmho - careful that one shoe doesn't catch you
funkay/fonkay/funky makes me cringe - same category as eggs benny. AAAAHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG
Phunky/Fonky/Fawkkeeeeeeeeee......
Except that Jamaicans didn't make hip-hop ala the way that NOLA artists pre-Cold Sweat were indeed making funk.
I still don't see where any of your argument, helps us discuss the most important female funk artist.
You got someone from the Nola in mind?
- spidey
I know this is the first time that a soulstrut thread has ever been sidetracked into a parallel discussion, but please don't throw me in the briar patch.
I think he was extending the para-METERS beyond the popular James Brown paradigm shift,so we can have a clearer landscape to choose from.
All over the Americas, from the tip of Argentina to Montreal Africans kept rhythms and melodies and religion alive. In some places like Haiti and Brazil and NOLA some traditions were almost nurtured.
Spanky, you still need to define important. The reason I say that is because I have problems with calling Lyn Collins or Marva Whitney, the most important IF important means creating. I think they sang what JB wanted them to sing in the way he wanted them to sing it over a tracks that he created.
Anyway, I think the most important woman in funk is Sharon Jones.
I need an air freshener under the computer, It's too funky in here!
Sorry I missed that. Let us know who your co-worker picked. Sorry to bust the doors down when you were just asking Pick anyway. Also let us know who you picked.
I like the idea of Labelle the group. They might have come to funk a little late (or not at all?) but you have 3 strong women, some of whom were good writers. I said Sara Dash earlier.
Yes, then no.
Dude: stop. You're killing me. This is music we're talking about - not the status of the Bill Of Rights. Organic social movements are not bourne of static stuff and do not have set numbers. There are vague milestones and interpersonal influences - sure. And you've noted some of the international influences upon the NOLA rhythms and culture. But no one is doubting this. You're arguing Good versus Evil and Yesses and Nos when we're looking for opinions. I mean, you're essentially arguing hypotheticals-based-on-preferences at worst. THERE WAS NO FIRST FUNK SONG. THERE WAS NO FIRST SOUL OR ROCK OR JAZZ OR GOSPEL SONG. That kind of lockstep genre-talk is totally irrelevant.
You have straight lost your mind.