....Such a stupid and vacuous statement from someone who should know better...I wonder sometimes about some racist liberals and think there really is no difference between them and some racist conservatives...sadly though, her sentiments are really not that surprising at all...
gtfohwtbs. Obama is the 3rd black senator....ever. He is a young, good looking guy with a background that is screen play worthy. Ferraro was inarticulate in what she said, but the truth is that Obama's blackness has not done him a disservice since becoming a Senator. I'm not discounting the hardships he grew up with or the racism that stood in his way to become a Senator, but his identity, including his racial identity have contributed to him becoming this enormously popular figure.
Lets not get it twisted here about who his voters are...and i'm not talking about black people. his supporters are voting for CHANGE. what spells change more than rejecting the white protestant males that we continue to elect. Ferraro should have said that Obama is winning votes because he symbolizes change more so than because his policies favor change (any more than Hillary's do).
Also, I think the opposite of what you have said is true. Nothing spells ignorance more than liberals who are afraid to talk about race...and gender. Bill Clinton was crucified but listen to what he said. This race is effected by people choosing their own. Blacks are overwhelmingly voting for Obama and women have favored Hillary. Clinton made an obvious and factual point, but people were soo offended because he pointed out that in South Carolina, where over 50% of democrats are Black, Obama's blackness played a major role, just like it did when Jesse Jackson won that state twice in '84 and '88.
Keithvanhorn...you picked the wrong person to debate with on this subject. By focusing on the superficial, you avoid the substance of a legitimate, viable candidate. If Obama is only the 3rd black senator ever, doesn't that tell you something about American society and the political system? John Kennedy was also a young, good looking guy with a background that was screenplay worthy, and he became president. What was the point of even making the statement you made?
oh did i? can you give a readers digest version of what you wrote cause i couldn't make it through the whole thing.
the point is that Obama has unquestionably gained voters in part because he is Black...including the 80-90% of Blacks who continue to vote for him. Clinton gets women voters...because she is a woman. the difference here, as i've said over and over, is that Obama will win (and is winning) in part because DEMS want change and Obama is the visual representation of change. I'm not saying that is the only reason why he is up, but it is definitely a contributing factor. If he were old, white and ugly, instead of young, black and good looking - would he be getting all these young supporters? give me a break. of course not.
i don't agree with what Ferraro said and she made the right political move in resigning...but Obama is a superstar because he is Black. Maybe he'd be Dwayne Wade status if he was white, but he's Kobe status cause he is Black. They didn't ask a state senator to speak at the dem convention cause he was such a great state senator. He didn't sell millions of books before his first term as a us senator because he's a great author. The guy has appeal, and part of the reason why is because he is Black. lets move on...
what you said makes zero sense. i said he would be a star, but not a superstar. of course he is qualified. to me and millions of other people, its a plus that he is Black. in over 200 years, we have not had a woman or a black prez. blacks are disproportionately in poverty and in jail (something like 1 out of 9 adult males). i don't know, to me, the symbolism of a black prez is 100% an important factor. how that is racist, u tell me.
....Such a stupid and vacuous statement from someone who should know better...I wonder sometimes about some racist liberals and think there really is no difference between them and some racist conservatives...sadly though, her sentiments are really not that surprising at all...
gtfohwtbs. Obama is the 3rd black senator....ever. He is a young, good looking guy with a background that is screen play worthy. Ferraro was inarticulate in what she said, but the truth is that Obama's blackness has not done him a disservice since becoming a Senator. I'm not discounting the hardships he grew up with or the racism that stood in his way to become a Senator, but his identity, including his racial identity have contributed to him becoming this enormously popular figure.
Lets not get it twisted here about who his voters are...and i'm not talking about black people. his supporters are voting for CHANGE. what spells change more than rejecting the white protestant males that we continue to elect. Ferraro should have said that Obama is winning votes because he symbolizes change more so than because his policies favor change (any more than Hillary's do).
Also, I think the opposite of what you have said is true. Nothing spells ignorance more than liberals who are afraid to talk about race...and gender. Bill Clinton was crucified but listen to what he said. This race is effected by people choosing their own. Blacks are overwhelmingly voting for Obama and women have favored Hillary. Clinton made an obvious and factual point, but people were soo offended because he pointed out that in South Carolina, where over 50% of democrats are Black, Obama's blackness played a major role, just like it did when Jesse Jackson won that state twice in '84 and '88.
Keithvanhorn...you picked the wrong person to debate with on this subject. By focusing on the superficial, you avoid the substance of a legitimate, viable candidate. If Obama is only the 3rd black senator ever, doesn't that tell you something about American society and the political system? John Kennedy was also a young, good looking guy with a background that was screenplay worthy, and he became president. What was the point of even making the statement you made?
oh did i? can you give a readers digest version of what you wrote cause i couldn't make it through the whole thing.
the point is that Obama has unquestionably gained voters in part because he is Black...including the 80-90% of Blacks who continue to vote for him. Clinton gets women voters...because she is a woman. the difference here, as i've said over and over, is that Obama will win (and is winning) in part because DEMS want change and Obama is the visual representation of change. I'm not saying that is the only reason why he is up, but it is definitely a contributing factor. If he were old, white and ugly, instead of young, black and good looking - would he be getting all these young supporters? give me a break. of course not.
i don't agree with what Ferraro said and she made the right political move in resigning...but Obama is a superstar because he is Black. Maybe he'd be Dwayne Wade status if he was white, but he's Kobe status cause he is Black. They didn't ask a state senator to speak at the dem convention cause he was such a great state senator. He didn't sell millions of books before his first term as a us senator because he's a great author. The guy has appeal, and part of the reason why is because he is Black. lets move on...
Haha...what??? Evidently, you don't even remember your own points. When you say he has "unquestionably" gained voters in part because he is Black, you're not seriously addressing any of the points I made in my reply. Also, it's not my problem if you don't like to read - no wonder the rest of the world keeps passing us by! You refer to the 80 to 90 percent of Blacks "who continue to vote for him" as if the same Black people keep voting by the same percentages from state to state. The Black population is not monolithic/predictable/simple-minded, so why do you keep mentioning "Blacks" and not "Whites". Hilary is a visual representation of change also...and your point is??? You didn't focus on contributing factors in a substantive way because if you had done that in your original posts, you wouldn't have had so many people disagree with what you've written - which focuses on the superficial. It's not that you have or are making salient points - in my opinion, you're making a lot of side points which don't address the original issue in a substantial way. There have been other Black presidential candidates before, it's just that Obama is the first one who really does seem to be on the cusp of getting the nomination. What kind of Democrat are you, anyway? You seem to be one of those (hopefully few) Democrats who is incapable of focusing on facts or even rhetoric - and who has no understanding of how complex the race issue really is. You have very little if any understanding of the Black community and the concerns people within it may have. Now all of a sudden you want to qualify your statements by being redundant in your use of the phrase "part of the reason". If you're making statements as if those statements are unequivocal, don't hide from your own statements later by back-pedaling.
what you said makes zero sense. i said he would be a star, but not a superstar. of course he is qualified. to me and millions of other people, its a plus that he is Black. in over 200 years, we have not had a woman or a black prez. blacks are disproportionately in poverty and in jail (something like 1 out of 9 adult males). i don't know, to me, the symbolism of a black prez is 100% an important factor. how that is racist, u tell me.
I am buzzed but it made sense to me.
KeithVanHorn Wrote:
including myself who are voting for him, in part, because he is Black.
what are you saying???? if i was editing your post i'd cross out 99% and maybe leave in the graemlin. give me a thesis statement or something. i can't wade through all that gibberish.
what are you saying???? if i was editing your post i'd cross out 99% and maybe leave in the graemlin. give me a thesis statement or something. i can't wade through all that gibberish.
Let me know which magazine or journal you edit, and I'll make sure I never purchase it. Ever.
Ferraro's been in politics for over 25 years and spoke her mind, and yet you continue to spin, cite context and ignore cogent points.
i'm spinning? now that the facts have come out (see today's nyt), lets take a look at what really happened:
Ferraro is hired to give a speech to a private group in California that has nothing to do with the Clinton Campaign or the Election. She mentions in this speech - the undeniable fact that race and gender are playing a huge role in this election. As an analogy, she talks about her run for VP in '84 and the fact that - had her name been Gerald, she never would have been selected. Which is not to say, she says, that she wasn't qualified for the job. Then, she remarks that Obama is in the same situation. He is certainly qualified, but were he white, he would not be in the same "position" that he is now. He is a huge celebrity. Not just a great young senator.
A local reporter from a small paper rights the story up and includes her quote. The Obama campaign splices her words, ignores the context, and makes it a front page story - as if Hillary had authored the words herself, simply because Ferraro is one of many people on Clinton's finance committee, and despite the fact that this speech had absolutely nothing to do with her campaign, they make it seem as though Clinton is trying to be racially divisive.
As of yesterday, not only did Ferraro resign, but Clinton went further than saying she "disagrees" with the statement, but stated that she repudiates it and renounces it.
That enough for you? Is Ferraro, a liberal democrat and a historical figure, still a racist?
dude, she said it a number of times in different forums, not just in that article or speech. And it was the same thing - Barack Obama has had it "easy" because he's Black. It wasn't taken at all out of context.
She then went even further to claim that the only reason they were taking issue with her was because she is white - reverse racism!
Clinton begrudgingly disowned the comments, but she was way too passive on this.
These things are not said in a vacuum. This is a grumble-grumble-nudge-nudge appeal to conservative whites (Clinton's main voting bloc) who feel that Blacks are taking over the world through affirmative action. It's a calculated and well-worn rallying call; it is not new or unique to Clinton or Ferraro. And now, typically, it is being turned back on Obama - as claims fly that he's actually the one "playing the race card". Oh, those sensitive Blacks, they take everything as an offense! They just don't know when to leave well enough alone. They weren't happy with sports, or affirmative action, they won't take the vice presidency either they want the whole thing! etc etc etc.
You compared Barack Obama to a basketball player! I mean come the hell on.
If you're too thick to see this, I don't know what to say. Listen to the other Keith.
These are decades-old scripts. You have to be monumentally ignorant, or just disconnected, to not see it.
nobody has said he's not the best person for the job. that is irrelevant to the discussion of whether race and gender have/are playing a role in the election - and even irrelevant to Ferraro's comment that he would not be in this position were he white. remember that her comment was prefaced by the statement that she was only selected as a vp because she was a woman - but that she was also qualified for the job.
i disagree with her wording, but agree with the concept that Obama is a great candidate (who has my vote), but is the worldwide celebrity because he is Black. That goes into it. Its insane to say otherwise.
dude, she said it a number of times in different forums, not just in that article or speech. And it was the same thing - Barack Obama has had it "easy" because he's Black. It wasn't taken at all out of context.
She then went even further to claim that the only reason they were taking issue with her was because she is white - reverse racism!
No, she said it in a speech to a private group in Cali. Axlerod found the quote in some bootleg local newspaper and made it a national headline. That is the timeline. Whether she stuck her foot in her mouth afterwards has nothing to do with what led to the national attention. She took offense to the idea that Axlerod would somehow link her statements to Hillary, or that this was Hillary's strategy. So she defended herself, but ended up digging a deeper hole.
You compared Barack Obama to a basketball player! I mean come the hell on.
O rly? I use basketball analogies ten times a day, including in Court. My screenname is a basketball player and I played college hoops. Give me a break dude. Have you taken over HarveyCanal's role to root out all the racism from a message board dedicated to black music???
Its impossible to have a conversation on here that involves race. In the office next to me is a Black lawyer my age who was born in Kenya....who is voting for Hillary. If he took over my screenname for a day, I guarantee I'd be banned for all the "racist" comments.
Is Ferraro, a liberal democrat and a historical figure, still a racist?
Dude, you are a broken record player. If I see you refer to Ferraro as "a historical figure" one more time, I may smash my monitor.
Nobody cares.
Do you have any original thoughts? The only time i see you post in these threads is after a SS consensus has been reached, at which time, you either give a snarky comment or throw in a "how dare you" type accusation.
Is Ferraro, a liberal democrat and a historical figure, still a racist?
Dude, you are a broken record player. If I see you refer to Ferraro as "a historical figure" one more time, I may smash my monitor.
Nobody cares.
Do you have any original thoughts? The only time i see you post in these threads is after a SS consensus has been reached, at which time, you either give a snarky comment or throw in a "how dare you" type accusation.
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY TRENDSETTING AND ORIGINALITY!
I will travel to Philly to observe if the one KVH will commit to using two or more of the following words/phrases within the space of a single appearance: "glue guy," "swag," "facial," and/or "Dirk rider".
No, she said it in a speech to a private group in Cali. Axlerod found the quote in some bootleg local newspaper and made it a national headline. That is the timeline.
Actually, she said it in a radio interview ten days prior to the speech in California.
She also said it 20 years ago about Jesse Jackson.
And, as I noted before, this is sentiment not nearly unique to Ferraro or this presidential election. It's code.
Why are you still lumping Ferraro with Hillary if its been established that she wasn't speaking for Hillary's campaign?
What is it code for? the reality that race and gender play a role in the election? Or that the Clintons and Ferraro are racists disguised as liberal democrats for the past 30 years?
And what is up with Keith Olberman? Its commendable to call out Bush and give a "special comment" about the troops dying in Iraq. But doesn't it water it down, when he gives a special comment about whether Hillary was forceful enough in saying Obama is not a muslim. Has he seen that 60 minutes interview? Is a special comment about Britney's failures as a mom up next?
Kobe Bryant = One of the most despised figures in sports with a shady history and virtually no TV ads or endorsements.
Dwayne Wade = Might make more money on those friggin Barkley/Top Five ads than on the court. You can't go a friggin day without seeing one of those ads. The most popular/exposed player in the NBA over the last 2 years..
Comments
oh did i? can you give a readers digest version of what you wrote cause i couldn't make it through the whole thing.
the point is that Obama has unquestionably gained voters in part because he is Black...including the 80-90% of Blacks who continue to vote for him. Clinton gets women voters...because she is a woman. the difference here, as i've said over and over, is that Obama will win (and is winning) in part because DEMS want change and Obama is the visual representation of change. I'm not saying that is the only reason why he is up, but it is definitely a contributing factor. If he were old, white and ugly, instead of young, black and good looking - would he be getting all these young supporters? give me a break. of course not.
i don't agree with what Ferraro said and she made the right political move in resigning...but Obama is a superstar because he is Black. Maybe he'd be Dwayne Wade status if he was white, but he's Kobe status cause he is Black. They didn't ask a state senator to speak at the dem convention cause he was such a great state senator. He didn't sell millions of books before his first term as a us senator because he's a great author. The guy has appeal, and part of the reason why is because he is Black. lets move on...
I honestly think what you are saying is racist.
He is relatively young, handsome, well spoken, seems to be able to unite people which will facilitate results and appears to be a man of integrity.
That combination alone is why Barack is what he is, not unlike JFK.
If you are someone who wouldn't vote for all the above qualifications, but WILL vote for him because he's black I think that's pretty fucked up.
I am buzzed but it made sense to me.
KeithVanHorn Wrote:
dude
Ferraro's been in politics for over 25 years and spoke her mind, and yet you continue to spin, cite context and ignore cogent points.
i'm spinning? now that the facts have come out (see today's nyt), lets take a look at what really happened:
Ferraro is hired to give a speech to a private group in California that has nothing to do with the Clinton Campaign or the Election. She mentions in this speech - the undeniable fact that race and gender are playing a huge role in this election. As an analogy, she talks about her run for VP in '84 and the fact that - had her name been Gerald, she never would have been selected. Which is not to say, she says, that she wasn't qualified for the job. Then, she remarks that Obama is in the same situation. He is certainly qualified, but were he white, he would not be in the same "position" that he is now. He is a huge celebrity. Not just a great young senator.
A local reporter from a small paper rights the story up and includes her quote. The Obama campaign splices her words, ignores the context, and makes it a front page story - as if Hillary had authored the words herself, simply because Ferraro is one of many people on Clinton's finance committee, and despite the fact that this speech had absolutely nothing to do with her campaign, they make it seem as though Clinton is trying to be racially divisive.
As of yesterday, not only did Ferraro resign, but Clinton went further than saying she "disagrees" with the statement, but stated that she repudiates it and renounces it.
That enough for you? Is Ferraro, a liberal democrat and a historical figure, still a racist?
"Obama simply has a problem that he happens to be black," she said.
She then went even further to claim that the only reason they were taking issue with her was because she is white - reverse racism!
Clinton begrudgingly disowned the comments, but she was way too passive on this.
These things are not said in a vacuum. This is a grumble-grumble-nudge-nudge appeal to conservative whites (Clinton's main voting bloc) who feel that Blacks are taking over the world through affirmative action. It's a calculated and well-worn rallying call; it is not new or unique to Clinton or Ferraro. And now, typically, it is being turned back on Obama - as claims fly that he's actually the one "playing the race card". Oh, those sensitive Blacks, they take everything as an offense! They just don't know when to leave well enough alone. They weren't happy with sports, or affirmative action, they won't take the vice presidency either they want the whole thing! etc etc etc.
You compared Barack Obama to a basketball player! I mean come the hell on.
If you're too thick to see this, I don't know what to say. Listen to the other Keith.
These are decades-old scripts. You have to be monumentally ignorant, or just disconnected, to not see it.
i disagree with her wording, but agree with the concept that Obama is a great candidate (who has my vote), but is the worldwide celebrity because he is Black. That goes into it. Its insane to say otherwise.
Dude, you are a broken record player. If I see you refer to Ferraro as "a historical figure" one more time, I may smash my monitor.
Nobody cares.
I guess that's supposed to be the game-over money quote?
No, she said it in a speech to a private group in Cali. Axlerod found the quote in some bootleg local newspaper and made it a national headline. That is the timeline. Whether she stuck her foot in her mouth afterwards has nothing to do with what led to the national attention. She took offense to the idea that Axlerod would somehow link her statements to Hillary, or that this was Hillary's strategy. So she defended herself, but ended up digging a deeper hole.
O rly? I use basketball analogies ten times a day, including in Court. My screenname is a basketball player and I played college hoops. Give me a break dude. Have you taken over HarveyCanal's role to root out all the racism from a message board dedicated to black music???
Its impossible to have a conversation on here that involves race. In the office next to me is a Black lawyer my age who was born in Kenya....who is voting for Hillary. If he took over my screenname for a day, I guarantee I'd be banned for all the "racist" comments.
Do you have any original thoughts? The only time i see you post in these threads is after a SS consensus has been reached, at which time, you either give a snarky comment or throw in a "how dare you" type accusation.
"Permission for this baller to drive the lane and approach the bench?"
"Denied."
YA FACTS IS BACKWARDS!
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY TRENDSETTING AND ORIGINALITY!
"Your honor, if I may, the bench really could be giving us more energy."
Actually, she said it in a radio interview ten days prior to the speech in California.
She also said it 20 years ago about Jesse Jackson.
And, as I noted before, this is sentiment not nearly unique to Ferraro or this presidential election. It's code.
What is it code for? the reality that race and gender play a role in the election? Or that the Clintons and Ferraro are racists disguised as liberal democrats for the past 30 years?
And what is up with Keith Olberman? Its commendable to call out Bush and give a "special comment" about the troops dying in Iraq. But doesn't it water it down, when he gives a special comment about whether Hillary was forceful enough in saying Obama is not a muslim. Has he seen that 60 minutes interview? Is a special comment about Britney's failures as a mom up next?
Kobe Bryant = One of the most despised figures in sports with a shady history and virtually no TV ads or endorsements.
Dwayne Wade = Might make more money on those friggin Barkley/Top Five ads than on the court. You can't go a friggin day without seeing one of those ads. The most popular/exposed player in the NBA over the last 2 years..