As far as "The Cult Of Obama" goes.....the only person I have seen here at SS acting like a mindless cult member is a Hillary supporter.
You have it backwards my man. Not to say that Obama supporters are part of a cult, but it is WEIRD the way his supporters (exemplified by those on Soulstrut) vilify Hillary, despite the similarities between the candidates. Paul Krugman's op-ed from Monday's NYT echoed everything I have been saying on this board for the past month, in the following paragraphs:
"Supporters of each candidate should have no trouble rallying behind the other if he or she gets the nod.
Why, then, is there so much venom out there?
I won???t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I???m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We???ve already had that from the Bush administration ??? remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don???t want to go there again.
What???s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of ???Clinton rules??? ??? the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent."
So many things wrong here, no point bringing them out.
great post
Keith the flight suit comparison is even over the top for me. You can do better.
Yeah most of the stuff I read/hear about Clinton is straight up sexism. Straight up. That includes you FRANK sorry.
Please. Because I use the word bitch? I'm guessing if I hated Obama it'd be about race too?
The people who keep trying to put this into a gender issue are not helping Hillary or anyone in the least. She is simply the wrong candidate for 2008. End of story.
Hey look man you and I are cool but I am just calling it how I see it.
The Wicked Witch is Dead, White Bitch, Bitch, Whore, Cunt, The Cackle, The Pantsuit... I was raised by a powerful woman and a leading feminist and I have long known what these terms are code for.
If you don't like being lumped in with all that, think on it and see if there's something behind it. None of us are perfect.
that read like the whining of people who are losing
"stop being so enthusiastic about your canidate! it's not right!"
I dunno - I voted for dude, I will again in Nov (my agnostically unknowable higher power, willing) but having met some of the Obama faithful, I'm honestly disconcerted by what JP was suggesting: a devotion to a cult of personality that often neglects to take consideration of facts.
As far as "The Cult Of Obama" goes.....the only person I have seen here at SS acting like a mindless cult member is a Hillary supporter.
You have it backwards my man. Not to say that Obama supporters are part of a cult, but it is WEIRD the way his supporters (exemplified by those on Soulstrut) vilify Hillary, despite the similarities between the candidates. Paul Krugman's op-ed from Monday's NYT echoed everything I have been saying on this board for the past month, in the following paragraphs:
"Supporters of each candidate should have no trouble rallying behind the other if he or she gets the nod.
Why, then, is there so much venom out there?
I won???t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I???m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We???ve already had that from the Bush administration ??? remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don???t want to go there again.
What???s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of ???Clinton rules??? ??? the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent."
So many things wrong here, no point bringing them out.
Fine! FUCK...
1. some people don't believe in autocracies, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton(?). WTF!!! How stupid is this country? 2. some have problems with BOTH Clintons... 3. Hillary and Bill's long history of scandal, financial, political or otherwise. - This topic alone can go on for days with bullet points. 4. Hillary's checkered history of virtually switching parties at will. Backing Lieberman, President of the College Republicans at Weseleyan, etc 5. Various untruths in campaigning and during her political career.
No, that's not what I was suggesting Oliver - I was suggesting that, rather than pay attention to facts, people (especially young ones) would tune out.
It's not a facts-vs-personality debate; it's a personality-vs-nothing debate.
I contest that it is not sexism as much as it is disdain for a "politics as usual" mentality that has people grasping for "change and hope".
Many people, whether you are willing to admit it or not, see the Clintons as being part of a political "machine" that embraces many of the same basic political ideals as GWB. Not so much on specific policy, but on a pompous pedestal that separates them from those citizens who have realized it's time for change.
If it was strictly sexism, this kind of hatred would have raised it's ugly head when Geraldine Ferraro was VP candidate.....and it didn't.
Yeah most of the stuff I read/hear about Clinton is straight up sexism. Straight up. That includes you FRANK sorry.
Please. Because I use the word bitch? I'm guessing if I hated Obama it'd be about race too?
The people who keep trying to put this into a gender issue are not helping Hillary or anyone in the least. She is simply the wrong candidate for 2008. End of story.
Hey look man you and I are cool but I am just calling it how I see it.
The Wicked Witch is Dead, White Bitch, Bitch, Whore, Cunt, The Cackle, The Pantsuit... I was raised by a powerful woman and a leading feminist and I have long known what these terms are code for.
If you don't like being lumped in with all that, think on it and see if there's something behind it. None of us are perfect.
It's becuase of rap.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
THIS JUST IN! (cca 1997)
Hillary Clinton is a divisive political figure.
Thanks guys. Now back to 2007.
Not that I want Hillary to do anything but quietly fade away, but what is wrong with a divisve political figure?
Consensus does nothing but leave us as half-steppers and apathetic bumps-on-a-log.
All of this "hope" that Obama is stirring up is sure to crash down as soon as the reality that he's not going to do one thing different from anyone else in a position of US power sets in.
(But my bets are still on Hillary anyway, so I don't even think it's going to get to that point.)
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
I just think its crazy that even if Hillary has marginally better qualifications or positions, we all know politics in this country is largely a popularity contest, exemplified by people wanting to have a beer with Dubya. Democrats have run so many wonky insider candidates over the years. For once they have someone for people to really get excited about, and its amazing to me that Hillary supporters have to join up with the terrified right wing, and probe how "strange" and "cult-like" it is for people to actually be energized about a candidate.
This dude is looking like a freight train, and Hillary fans have sounded just as asshurt over the last couple weeks.
Let the empty suit comments begin, can't wait to see McCain next to him on stage, biggest age difference ever, and the people behind McCain last night were not helping......
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
RON PAUL!!!
Saying... Like somehow Frickin' Ron Paul is gonna go in there and kick ass with the same globalists.
Frickin' libertarians. pathetic.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
RON PAUL!!!
Voting for a president has long been a joke to me. I still do it, but not to get all carried away in a cult-like tide of yes, it's-those-others-Americans-and-not-me-who-are-responsible-for-cosigning-some-straight-bullshit.
Yeah right, just vote for what you and your email list agree upon as the lesser of 2 evils and it will 100% absolve you of your own cooperation with the death machine.
People really seem to believe that shit too. It's so friggin disgusting to me.
But anyway...
At this point, I only vote to show support for the disintegration of the 2-party system.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
RON PAUL!!!
Saying... Like somehow Frickin' Ron Paul is gonna go in there and kick ass with the same globalists.
Frickin' libertarians. pathetic.
So go ahead and furnish the globalists with their own protege...because that's what's really going to initiate change.
And for the record, I don't think that Obama is necessarily lying when he talks about the "change" to come. I just don't think it's going to be he same "change" that his supporters are banking on.
Yeah man I feel you. But check it out - if we all remove ourselves from the process you know what happens? We can sleep happier at night being all self-satisfied with our personal politics, but meanwhile the machine keeps rolling and what little voice we do have is written off. That, to me, is unacceptable. I don't doubt that Obama will play the middle. In fact, I bet on it. That's what I want out of a president. How else could all of these people, of disparate ideas and origins, get a voice in government?
Your rhetoric of dismantling the system kills me. Better for you to find a banana republic or at least a large forest that will allow you to live on your own compound and make your own rules. For the rest of us, there's this.
edwards will endorse obama after he takes wisconsin.
Think so? I dunno, I kinda have the notion that many leading playas are gonna sit this one out entirely until Denver. Gore, Edwards, alot of the superdelegates, etc...
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
RON PAUL!!!
Saying... Like somehow Frickin' Ron Paul is gonna go in there and kick ass with the same globalists.
Frickin' libertarians. pathetic.
So go ahead and furnish the globalists with their own protege...because that's what's really going to initiate change.
And for the record, I don't think that Obama is necessarily lying when he talks about the "change" to come. I just don't think it's going to be he same "change" that his supporters are banking on.
Very few are seeing this as a revolution from the inside.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Your rhetoric of dismantling the system kills me. Better for you to find a banana republic or at least a large forest that will allow you to live on your own compound and make your own rules.
So in short, anyone who thinks the 2-party system is a 2-headed monster should just take a long walk off of a short pier?
Doesn't sound very all-inclusive to me.
And on that note, fuck if I want straight-up dumb and destructive opinions to count in the name of kumbaya politics.
In my eyes, there are many ways for us to protest what we should definitely be protesting without having to reduce ourselves to fringe obscurity.
But the first step is to stop eating from the palms of sure-fire devils.
But I suppose with that, I'm asking for far too much.
I agree that there should be a viable 3rd, 4th, or 5th party. I'm with you there. And, if Obama hadn't run this year, or hadn't been successful up to this point, I'm sure you'd see a number of 3rd Party candidates popping up.
Up until now though, I haven't found a third party that I felt was viable enough to represent my ideas in a general election. That's why I'm a declared Independent. I've voted green in local elections in the past but I was not trying to vote Nader for president.
And as far as dumb and destructive opinions, that surprises me coming from you. Aren't you the dude who's down south with the salt of the earth trying to find the name of the girl down the road? in all seriousness I can't get behind that. I've met too many people of different cultural and political stripes, some of whom are far, far to the right of me, that are nonetheless caring and intelligent individuals who deserve a voice in their government.
I believe in the diversity of America, on both sides. My apologies if that's too kumbayah for some of y'all!
No, that's not what I was suggesting Oliver - I was suggesting that, rather than pay attention to facts, people (especially young ones) would tune out.
It's not a facts-vs-personality debate; it's a personality-vs-nothing debate.
Yeah - I got that point, which I also agree with. However, the folks I'm thinking of are actually very politically involved and would have been sans Obama. However, inject Obama into it and *whistle* it's still been astonishing to see the levels of enthusiasm (not to mention, a some what proportional amount of scorn tossed Hillary's way).
edwards will endorse obama after he takes wisconsin.
Think so? I dunno, I kinda have the notion that many leading playas are gonna sit this one out entirely until Denver. Gore, Edwards, alot of the superdelegates, etc...
My feeling (personal opinion alone) is that Edwards probably hasn't yet supported one particular candidate because he doesn't want to hurt his VP bid should his unsupported candidate win. A clear winner wins the (at that point, null and void) Edwardsian support. Makes sense to me.
Comments
Keith the flight suit comparison is even over the top for me. You can do better.
Hillary Clinton is a divisive political figure.
Thanks guys. Now back to 2007.
Catch up, son!
"stop being so enthusiastic about your candidate! it's not right!"
Hey look man you and I are cool but I am just calling it how I see it.
The Wicked Witch is Dead, White Bitch, Bitch, Whore, Cunt, The Cackle, The Pantsuit... I was raised by a powerful woman and a leading feminist and I have long known what these terms are code for.
If you don't like being lumped in with all that, think on it and see if there's something behind it. None of us are perfect.
dammit.
I dunno - I voted for dude, I will again in Nov (my agnostically unknowable higher power, willing) but having met some of the Obama faithful, I'm honestly disconcerted by what JP was suggesting: a devotion to a cult of personality that often neglects to take consideration of facts.
Fine! FUCK...
1. some people don't believe in autocracies, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton(?). WTF!!! How stupid is this country?
2. some have problems with BOTH Clintons...
3. Hillary and Bill's long history of scandal, financial, political or otherwise. - This topic alone can go on for days with bullet points.
4. Hillary's checkered history of virtually switching parties at will. Backing Lieberman, President of the College Republicans at Weseleyan, etc
5. Various untruths in campaigning and during her political career.
There's much more to that iceberg...
It's not a facts-vs-personality debate; it's a personality-vs-nothing debate.
I contest that it is not sexism as much as it is disdain for a "politics as usual" mentality that has people grasping for "change and hope".
Many people, whether you are willing to admit it or not, see the Clintons as being part of a political "machine" that embraces many of the same basic political ideals as GWB. Not so much on specific policy, but on a pompous pedestal that separates them from those citizens who have realized it's time for change.
If it was strictly sexism, this kind of hatred would have raised it's ugly head when Geraldine Ferraro was VP candidate.....and it didn't.
It's becuase of rap.
Not that I want Hillary to do anything but quietly fade away, but what is wrong with a divisve political figure?
Consensus does nothing but leave us as half-steppers and apathetic bumps-on-a-log.
All of this "hope" that Obama is stirring up is sure to crash down as soon as the reality that he's not going to do one thing different from anyone else in a position of US power sets in.
(But my bets are still on Hillary anyway, so I don't even think it's going to get to that point.)
Anyway, if you truly want change...you should be supporting a candidate, or better yet a way of life, that actually offers something that at the very least remotely resembles change.
Because a pretty face and a some slick words, especially with a bunch of globalist shitheads still pulling the puppet strings, just ain't gonna cut it.
RON PAUL!!!
Sabadabada's plans of staging a terrorist attack revealed!
Jonny is very on point today.
mccain is texting osama right now about an october surprise
---
This dude is looking like a freight train, and Hillary fans have sounded just as asshurt over the last couple weeks.
Let the empty suit comments begin, can't wait to see McCain next to him on stage, biggest age difference ever, and the people behind McCain last night were not helping......
I'm sure some folks are indeed pre-planning conspiracy theories to help rationalize the possibility of losing.
Saying... Like somehow Frickin' Ron Paul is gonna go in there and kick ass with the same globalists.
Frickin' libertarians. pathetic.
Voting for a president has long been a joke to me. I still do it, but not to get all carried away in a cult-like tide of yes, it's-those-others-Americans-and-not-me-who-are-responsible-for-cosigning-some-straight-bullshit.
Yeah right, just vote for what you and your email list agree upon as the lesser of 2 evils and it will 100% absolve you of your own cooperation with the death machine.
People really seem to believe that shit too. It's so friggin disgusting to me.
But anyway...
At this point, I only vote to show support for the disintegration of the 2-party system.
So go ahead and furnish the globalists with their own protege...because that's what's really going to initiate change.
And for the record, I don't think that Obama is necessarily lying when he talks about the "change" to come. I just don't think it's going to be he same "change" that his supporters are banking on.
Your rhetoric of dismantling the system kills me. Better for you to find a banana republic or at least a large forest that will allow you to live on your own compound and make your own rules. For the rest of us, there's this.
Think so? I dunno, I kinda have the notion that many leading playas are gonna sit this one out entirely until Denver. Gore, Edwards, alot of the superdelegates, etc...
Very few are seeing this as a revolution from the inside.
So in short, anyone who thinks the 2-party system is a 2-headed monster should just take a long walk off of a short pier?
Doesn't sound very all-inclusive to me.
And on that note, fuck if I want straight-up dumb and destructive opinions to count in the name of kumbaya politics.
In my eyes, there are many ways for us to protest what we should definitely be protesting without having to reduce ourselves to fringe obscurity.
But the first step is to stop eating from the palms of sure-fire devils.
But I suppose with that, I'm asking for far too much.
Up until now though, I haven't found a third party that I felt was viable enough to represent my ideas in a general election. That's why I'm a declared Independent. I've voted green in local elections in the past but I was not trying to vote Nader for president.
And as far as dumb and destructive opinions, that surprises me coming from you. Aren't you the dude who's down south with the salt of the earth trying to find the name of the girl down the road?
I believe in the diversity of America, on both sides. My apologies if that's too kumbayah for some of y'all!
Yeah - I got that point, which I also agree with. However, the folks I'm thinking of are actually very politically involved and would have been sans Obama. However, inject Obama into it and *whistle* it's still been astonishing to see the levels of enthusiasm (not to mention, a some what proportional amount of scorn tossed Hillary's way).
My feeling (personal opinion alone) is that Edwards probably hasn't yet supported one particular candidate because he doesn't want to hurt his VP bid should his unsupported candidate win. A clear winner wins the (at that point, null and void) Edwardsian support. Makes sense to me.