At the end of the day, the US needs to stop backing Isreal.
Shit are we gonna go here again? Israel's a convenient pretext but if it didn't exist the Islamists would have to invent it...
Huh?
I thnk what rootless is saying is that simplifying the problem down to a solution of the US stopping its backing of Israel is ever-so-slightly fucking insane
UK Strutters (or anyone else): What`s the likely outcome here?
The Spanish voted in an anti-Iraq war government as a result of a similar incident coupled with a similar demand on the part of the bombers.
Will the Brits meet al-Qaida's demands like the Spanish did?
At the end of the day, the US needs to stop backing Isreal. Until that happens, this isn't going away. Who wouldn't be mad if someone was in your yard trying to dictate shit. Do I agree with violence? Hell no. Do I agree with terroism? HELL NO...but was anyone paying attention before 9/11??? Nope
It might not be related to today...but it's all an effect in my opinion
My heart goes out to the people of London.
The US withdrawing support for Israel would certainly change the equation.
Bring peace to the Middle East through justice would be far better.
A Middle East where Jews and Palistinians, Sunnis and Shii, Arabs and Persians and Kurds and Africans live together in peace is what I am hoping for.
The G8 could start tomorrow in bringing justice to the area. They could start by aknowledging the damage done by colonializm. They could ask leaders of the area to come together and aknowledge the right of each party live and to have self determination.
I doubt this was meant as a hit on the G8 summit (if so, why not bomb Edinburgh). I think this is a reaction to London getting the 2012 Olympics, a sort of "Here's what you have to look forward to...". Fucking sick.
the question is whos more evil. the G8 who really run shit and kill/impovrish millions on the low-or the folks who blow people up busses and trains and fly planes into buildings. Whats worse?
The US withdrawing support for Israel would certainly change the equation.
No doubt. But probably for the worse. Israel would be destroyed and the terrorists would be emboldened. Like I said, Israel is a convenient pretext but with Israel gone they'd just start in that much harder on the next evil country on their list, e.g. yours.
At the end of the day, the US needs to stop backing Isreal.
Shit are we gonna go here again? Israel's a convenient pretext but if it didn't exist the Islamists would have to invent it...
Huh?
I thnk what rootless is saying is that simplifying the problem down to a solution of the US stopping its backing of Israel is ever-so-slightly fucking insane
Also, it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the actions of these madmen to any place or cause, not Israel or Islam. These nutjobs don't represent anybody but their own fucked up selves.
Peace to the UK.
h
Edit: To my peoples, lets just send out good will & peace to the folks hurt & lost today. If other folks wanna engage in bs, we don't have to participate.
Yes, all Muslims are looking for is a good dirty fight and to kill kill kill! Oh those fucked-up Islamists! Why can't they just accept foreign interference and rule, like good little towelheads? Haven't they heard about Western superiority? Everyone knows that the kind of Christian fundamentalism they got going in the US is waaaay better than the bullshit mumbo-jumbo they're yelling over there in the desert. Yeesh! I wish they would just go away!
I'm waiting with much sickness to my stomach to hear back from two friends. Shit is straight up fucked and I don't feel optimistic. When desperate folks feel like they've got nothing to lose, they don't give a fuck what they take away from others. More and more people are robbed of their basic neccessities everyday. More and more desperation is created everyday. This does feel like just the beginning.
AQ, which this appears to be, plans their attacks way in advance.
Olympics? Would they have been prepared to carry these attacks out in Paris, NYC, Madrid or Moscow? Perhpas. Why Olympics? Because women compete not wearing burkas? Because natins they don't like compete?
G8? Seems likely. These are the countrys that are the focus of AQ ire. But, why not Edinbourough? London is the international capitol with the crowded subways and a large population from the countrys where AQ opperates.
No significance. 9/11 was not designed, best I know, to be a significant date. Attaking London fits with past AQ actions.
What do they want? If AQ follows these things up with a list of demands I have not seen it. I have seen bin Laden talk about these issues, and have heard others suggested: Establish an Islamic goverment in Saudia Arabia. Death to Israeli. Return of the Taliban. The West out of the Ottoman empire.
There is not much there to negotiate, and these are not people who want to negotiate. AQ's strenght could be diminished through bringing justice to middle east, but OBL will never love us.
Will there be more attacks like this? If AQ stays true to form, the next syncronised attack in a Western capitol will be in 2-4 years.
The US withdrawing support for Israel would certainly change the equation.
No doubt. But probably for the worse. Israel would be destroyed and the terrorists would be emboldened. Like I said, Israel is a convenient pretext but with Israel gone they'd just start in that much harder on the next evil country on their list, e.g. yours.
At this point it wouldn't change it too much. Once we went into Afganistan and Iraq we just gave 100 more years of excuses to terrorists and convinced 1000's more to sign up.
Israel is an important issue, but at this point everything is so muddled it's just a "east vs west" thing. People hate everything eachother stands for and there is no real middle ground.
Terrorist feel like their whole world is ending so why not take as many capitalists with them as possible.
Capitalists think theirs is the only way and fighting terrorist while paving over the planet is just part of the job. Plus, they can constantly claim they aren't doing anything bad because it's all kept out of the public eye.
Everyone in London stay safe, our thoughts are with you.
Anyone know if John Stapleton is/was in London and if he's okay?
Hey thanks for asking! I'm here in Bristol (120 miles away from London) and fine. I was thinking of hitting the big city today and going to Nick Cope's album launch tonight but that plan changed when I saw the news this morning. All my folks seem to be safe, all the Vinyl Vulture crew are OK too... and all the funk 45 lot as well.
I guess we (in the UK) all knew this was coming, just grateful for small mercies - not on the scale of 9/11 or Madrid. A bit early for discussion here, but I'd say this was definitely timed to coincide with the start of the G8 conference, and nothing to do with London winning the Olympics bid - too much planning and preparation involved.
It's interesting, too, that London generally responded as a city that's suffered this kind of shit before - most recently when I was growing up there in 'The Troubles' in the 70's and 80's.
And as for reasons, we've all got our different points of view and I respect that, however much I seriously disagree with some of them! so let's leave it there for now.
Everyone in London stay safe, our thoughts are with you.
Anyone know if John Stapleton is/was in London and if he's okay?
Hey thanks for asking! I'm here in Bristol (120 miles away from London) and fine. I was thinking of hitting the big city today and going to Nick Cope's album launch tonight but that plan changed when I saw the news this morning. All my folks seem to be safe, all the Vinyl Vulture crew are OK too... and all the funk 45 lot as well.
Good to hear, John! I know Pete Jellyjazz lived a ways from London but wasn't sure if you were there or not.
In any event, thanks for the update. As much as we clown on the funk 45 lot, our thoughts are definitely going out to you all.
AQ, which this appears to be, plans their attacks way in advance.
Olympics? Would they have been prepared to carry these attacks out in Paris, NYC, Madrid or Moscow? Perhpas. Why Olympics? Because women compete not wearing burkas? Because natins they don't like compete?
G8? Seems likely. These are the countrys that are the focus of AQ ire. But, why not Edinbourough? London is the international capitol with the crowded subways and a large population from the countrys where AQ opperates.
No significance. 9/11 was not designed, best I know, to be a significant date. Attaking London fits with past AQ actions.
What do they want? If AQ follows these things up with a list of demands I have not seen it. I have seen bin Laden talk about these issues, and have heard others suggested: Establish an Islamic goverment in Saudia Arabia. Death to Israeli. Return of the Taliban. The West out of the Ottoman empire.
There is not much there to negotiate, and these are not people who want to negotiate. AQ's strenght could be diminished through bringing justice to middle east, but OBL will never love us.
Will there be more attacks like this? If AQ stays true to form, the next syncronised attack in a Western capitol will be in 2-4 years.
Dan
it's easy just follow the magic footprints use numerology [7/7/05] to figure out terrorist attacks carrried out by muslim extremists who are backed by our allies[saudi arabia/jordan/pakistan]and our pals from langley the CIA[crime /coke importation / agency.]+ the skull and bones/free masons/israel/zionists/the arms/nuclear/petrol /chemical/ pharmacutical industries as well as the HEAD MACKS of all -THE LIZARD PEOPLE.
On a lighter note: Anybody read about that CIA kidnapping of that Muslim Cleric in Italy who got "RENDERED" to Egypt where he was tourtured and imprisoned with no formal charges-and remains in jail. An Italian Judge indicted 13 cia operatives+ the cheif of station.They were staying at 5 star Hotels for weeks on end racking up 50,000+ dollar hotel bills.Our Tax Dollars hard at work around the globe.
More flawless tradecraft.
whoa there, easy with the numerology, it's my birfday today.
Man, I wish this planet could just chill the fuck out !!
P.S It would be nice if we could refrain from political/idealogical masterbation for a minute and just send love and prayers to those affected by this incident. There are alot of reasons why things happen, rather than speculate on causes/reasons, let's just give our love and support...They're is plenty of time for speculation and reasoning, let's just help pick up the pieces first.
cheers ! My mixing is still rough as a badger though!
I always remember once you put on an amaaaaazin track that had a real up-tempo bongo beat reminiscent of apache, but there was a female vocalist (and possibly a male one too) on it. We went went f'kin nutz over that one.
Dont suppose you recall what it was?
I remember it was so off the hook that a dude just started breakin to it, which doesn't happen too often at the academy.
To be honest, I don't think there is much to target here in Edinburgh. London is a much, much bigger symbol. There isn't the transport system for a start. They could have killed many, many thousands of people in Edinburgh during all the marches/protests/riots we had this week, but it is not always about mass murder. This event was designed just to cause as much disruption as possible, at a time when the worlds attention is on this country.
Thankfully, mercifully, I think London got off lightly this time (relatively speaking, obviously). It could have been a whole lot worse, so lets hope and pray this is the end of it for now.
It's incredible the number of people I know who slept in and missed those trains, or were on holiday/finished work last week/doing a different thing today, and were not caught up in it all. Too close for comfort how so many managed to avoid the mess, that if they had gone about their normal daily routine would have been involved right in the middle. Really makes you think.
Thoughts with everyone affected, and a quote (taken from another messageboard I read):
"What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible they do not realise that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?"
-- Winston Churchill December 26th 1941
Proud to be British, and I hope the terrorists see the British reaction to this, just like they did America's. And by that I don't mean fighting another war, I mean the everday resolve and fighting spirit, which just shows how much of a pointless exercise it was and always will be.
I always remember once you put on an amaaaaazin track that had a real up-tempo bongo beat reminiscent of apache, but there was a female vocalist (and possibly a male one too) on it. We went went f'kin nutz over that one.
Dont suppose you recall what it was?
no idea, I'm afraid - when was it? Root and Jenny Jackson perhaps ? or maybe that Genya Ravan track with the uptempo break? that sounds more likely, actually....'Takuta Kalaba/Turn On Your Lovelight' .
no idea, I'm afraid - when was it? Root and Jenny Jackson perhaps ? or maybe that Genya Ravan track with the uptempo break? that sounds more likely, actually....'Takuta Kalaba/Turn On Your Lovelight' .
The US withdrawing support for Israel would certainly change the equation.
No doubt. But probably for the worse. Israel would be destroyed and the terrorists would be emboldened. Like I said, Israel is a convenient pretext but with Israel gone they'd just start in that much harder on the next evil country on their list, e.g. yours.
1) The U.S. ISN'T going to stop supporting Israel
2) If it DID, Israel would still be standing afterwards.
3) Israel IS a source of great anger for many Muslims, not just the Islamists
4) U.S. support for Israel IS an issue for Al Qaeda. The Al Qaeda mastermind who planned the 9/11 attacks and who was captured in Pakistan said that the main reason why he became an Islamist was because of his outrage over the Israeli-Palestinian question. This shocked some of his U.S. interrogators because the Bush administration's line is that Israel is simply an excuse not a cause of terrorism by Islamists.
UK Strutters (or anyone else): What`s the likely outcome here?
The Spanish voted in an anti-Iraq war government as a result of a similar incident coupled with a similar demand on the part of the bombers.
Will the Brits meet al-Qaida's demands like the Spanish did?
At the end of the day, the US needs to stop backing Isreal. Until that happens, this isn't going away. Who wouldn't be mad if someone was in your yard trying to dictate shit. Do I agree with violence? Hell no. Do I agree with terroism? HELL NO...but was anyone paying attention before 9/11??? Nope
It might not be related to today...but it's all an effect in my opinion
It's not going to go away, even if we disowned Israel tomorrow (which will never happen)...
They are at war with us, and I don't mean "us" like me and W. I mean "us" meaning everyone that isn't a fundamentalist fuckwit... fucking heathens... I'm so mad/sad right now...
If Israel ceased to exist, or if America actually left the middle east, Al Qaeda and the like would see it as a major victory and press on... they want a world caliphate...
There are a lot of morons who get this twisted, they think this is a noble resistence/independence movement... it's not... this is a movement to conquer the world under fundamentalist Islam... crusade in reverse... and of course we have Christian crusaders as well... neither is right...
My heart goes out to all in London and elsewhere affected. There are cops all over NYC. Shit is not cool.
Glad I drive in and out of the city... but then there are the bridges and tunnels...
Terrible, Sad news. London & UK, my heart goes out to all those effected by this. Its a sad state of affairs/messed up world that we live in, when shit like this goes on. It makes it harder to go through the battle of day to day life. I hope everyone will find their loved ones safe & sound. Its events like this that make you think about your life and how fragile it really can be. My suggestion: Take time to go see/call up a loved one/friend, just to say whats up, 'cause you dont know when or where shit like this is gonna set off next. I pray that is doesn't, but i think the chances are pretty high.
crazy situation yesterday, I normally would have travelled right through the king's X / Euston area on the victoria line from highbury, but luckily got word of power surges and avoided it. Very surreal dripfeed of rumours, news and speculation, my first sign that things were bad was when friends from other parts of the uk started texting to see if I was okay, which was bizarre as I didn't know what was going on at that stage.
I think my girlfriend had been on that No.30 bus until about 10 mins before the bomb went off.
Thank god friends family and the strut crew are all okay.
such a bizarre atmosphere after the elation of getting the olympics, which was a proper london pride buzz.
one nasty side effect that has been noticed so far is muslim groups in the uk getting hate mail and death threats by email etc - anything which drives a wedge between the communities in London with just serve to further the terrorists cause.
Comments
No chance
Huh?
I thnk what rootless is saying is that simplifying the problem down to a solution of the US stopping its backing of Israel is ever-so-slightly fucking insane
My heart goes out to the people of London.
The US withdrawing support for Israel would certainly change the equation.
Bring peace to the Middle East through justice would be far better.
A Middle East where Jews and Palistinians, Sunnis and Shii, Arabs and Persians and Kurds and Africans live together in peace is what I am hoping for.
The G8 could start tomorrow in bringing justice to the area. They could start by aknowledging the damage done by colonializm. They could ask leaders of the area to come together and aknowledge the right of each party live and to have self determination.
Dan
No doubt. But probably for the worse. Israel would be destroyed and the terrorists would be emboldened. Like I said, Israel is a convenient pretext but with Israel gone they'd just start in that much harder on the next evil country on their list, e.g. yours.
Also, it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the actions of these madmen to any place or cause, not Israel or Islam. These nutjobs don't represent anybody but their own fucked up selves.
Peace to the UK.
h
Edit: To my peoples, lets just send out good will & peace to the folks hurt & lost today. If other folks wanna engage in bs, we don't have to participate.
I'm waiting with much sickness to my stomach to hear back from two friends. Shit is straight up fucked and I don't feel optimistic. When desperate folks feel like they've got nothing to lose, they don't give a fuck what they take away from others. More and more people are robbed of their basic neccessities everyday. More and more desperation is created everyday. This does feel like just the beginning.
AQ, which this appears to be, plans their attacks way in advance.
Olympics? Would they have been prepared to carry these attacks out in Paris, NYC, Madrid or Moscow? Perhpas. Why Olympics? Because women compete not wearing burkas? Because natins they don't like compete?
G8? Seems likely. These are the countrys that are the focus of AQ ire. But, why not Edinbourough? London is the international capitol with the crowded subways and a large population from the countrys where AQ opperates.
No significance. 9/11 was not designed, best I know, to be a significant date. Attaking London fits with past AQ actions.
What do they want? If AQ follows these things up with a list of demands I have not seen it. I have seen bin Laden talk about these issues, and have heard others suggested:
Establish an Islamic goverment in Saudia Arabia.
Death to Israeli.
Return of the Taliban.
The West out of the Ottoman empire.
There is not much there to negotiate, and these are not people who want to negotiate. AQ's strenght could be diminished through bringing justice to middle east, but OBL will never love us.
Will there be more attacks like this? If AQ stays true to form, the next syncronised attack in a Western capitol will be in 2-4 years.
Dan
At this point it wouldn't change it too much. Once we went into Afganistan and Iraq we just gave 100 more years of excuses to terrorists and convinced 1000's more to sign up.
Israel is an important issue, but at this point everything is so muddled it's just a "east vs west" thing. People hate everything eachother stands for and there is no real middle ground.
Terrorist feel like their whole world is ending so why not take as many capitalists with them as possible.
Capitalists think theirs is the only way and fighting terrorist while paving over the planet is just part of the job. Plus, they can constantly claim they aren't doing anything bad because it's all kept out of the public eye.
Sorry, you are right.
Peace
Here Here...
I just talked to one friend who told me they were safe and sound, but they can't reach their sister (who works just off King's Cross).
I just want everyone to get back to their families right now.
Hey thanks for asking! I'm here in Bristol (120 miles away from London) and fine. I was thinking of hitting the big city today and going to Nick Cope's album launch tonight but that plan changed when I saw the news this morning. All my folks seem to be safe, all the Vinyl Vulture crew are OK too... and all the funk 45 lot as well.
I guess we (in the UK) all knew this was coming, just grateful for small mercies - not on the scale of 9/11 or Madrid. A bit early for discussion here, but I'd say this was definitely timed to coincide with the start of the G8 conference, and nothing to do with London winning the Olympics bid - too much planning and preparation involved.
It's interesting, too, that London generally responded as a city that's suffered this kind of shit before - most recently when I was growing up there in 'The Troubles' in the 70's and 80's.
And as for reasons, we've all got our different points of view and I respect that, however much I seriously disagree with some of them! so let's leave it there for now.
Thanks for your concern, everyone!
Good to hear, John! I know Pete Jellyjazz lived a ways from London but wasn't sure if you were there or not.
In any event, thanks for the update. As much as we clown on the funk 45 lot, our thoughts are definitely going out to you all.
cheers, stay safe
-Mark
Mr Stapleton, you have rocked amazing sets every single time I've been at The Academy.
Peace.
whoa there, easy with the numerology, it's my birfday today.
cheers ! My mixing is still rough as a badger though!
P.S It would be nice if we could refrain from political/idealogical masterbation for a minute and just send love and prayers to those affected by this incident. There are alot of reasons why things happen, rather than speculate on causes/reasons, let's just give our love and support...They're is plenty of time for speculation and reasoning, let's just help pick up the pieces first.
I always remember once you put on an amaaaaazin track that had a real up-tempo bongo beat reminiscent of apache, but there was a female vocalist (and possibly a male one too) on it. We went went f'kin nutz over that one.
Dont suppose you recall what it was?
I remember it was so off the hook that a dude just started breakin to it, which doesn't happen too often at the academy.
My sister is a train conductor in the New York area, I'm starting to worry about her more and more.
Thankfully, mercifully, I think London got off lightly this time (relatively speaking, obviously). It could have been a whole lot worse, so lets hope and pray this is the end of it for now.
It's incredible the number of people I know who slept in and missed those trains, or were on holiday/finished work last week/doing a different thing today, and were not caught up in it all. Too close for comfort how so many managed to avoid the mess, that if they had gone about their normal daily routine would have been involved right in the middle. Really makes you think.
Thoughts with everyone affected, and a quote (taken from another messageboard I read):
"What kind of a people do they think we are? Is it possible they do not realise that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?"
-- Winston Churchill December 26th 1941
Proud to be British, and I hope the terrorists see the British reaction to this, just like they did America's. And by that I don't mean fighting another war, I mean the everday resolve and fighting spirit, which just shows how much of a pointless exercise it was and always will be.
no idea, I'm afraid - when was it? Root and Jenny Jackson perhaps ? or maybe that Genya Ravan track with the uptempo break? that sounds more likely, actually....'Takuta Kalaba/Turn On Your Lovelight' .
Cheers man, I'll check those out.
I think it was a Yoda gig late last year.
1) The U.S. ISN'T going to stop supporting Israel
2) If it DID, Israel would still be standing afterwards.
3) Israel IS a source of great anger for many Muslims, not just the Islamists
4) U.S. support for Israel IS an issue for Al Qaeda. The Al Qaeda mastermind who planned the 9/11 attacks and who was captured in Pakistan said that the main reason why he became an Islamist was because of his outrage over the Israeli-Palestinian question. This shocked some of his U.S. interrogators because the Bush administration's line is that Israel is simply an excuse not a cause of terrorism by Islamists.
It's not going to go away, even if we disowned Israel tomorrow (which will never happen)...
They are at war with us, and I don't mean "us" like me and W. I mean "us" meaning everyone that isn't a fundamentalist fuckwit... fucking heathens... I'm so mad/sad right now...
If Israel ceased to exist, or if America actually left the middle east, Al Qaeda and the like would see it as a major victory and press on... they want a world caliphate...
There are a lot of morons who get this twisted, they think this is a noble resistence/independence movement... it's not... this is a movement to conquer the world under fundamentalist Islam... crusade in reverse... and of course we have Christian crusaders as well... neither is right...
My heart goes out to all in London and elsewhere affected. There are cops all over NYC. Shit is not cool.
Glad I drive in and out of the city... but then there are the bridges and tunnels...
hold tight London & all strutters alike.
Peace
Fucked up shit.
Hope everyone is ok.
Peace...
FNM
crazy situation yesterday, I normally would have travelled right through the king's X / Euston area on the victoria line from highbury, but luckily got word of power surges and avoided it. Very surreal dripfeed of rumours, news and speculation, my first sign that things were bad was when friends from other parts of the uk started texting to see if I was okay, which was bizarre as I didn't know what was going on at that stage.
I think my girlfriend had been on that No.30 bus until about 10 mins before the bomb went off.
Thank god friends family and the strut crew are all okay.
such a bizarre atmosphere after the elation of getting the olympics, which was a proper london pride buzz.
one nasty side effect that has been noticed so far is muslim groups in the uk getting hate mail and death threats by email etc - anything which drives a wedge between the communities in London with just serve to further the terrorists cause.
stay safe people,
J