Isn't this around the time Swervedriver somes up in these types threads? I enjoyed them.
Out of all the bands mentioned - JAMC is the only one I actually still put on. It was one of the best shows of my youth and well-worth getting home at 4 am and grounded for. It's a mix of music and nostalgia imo when it comes to these groups - JAMC were a big deal to me musically and memories-wise, so those guitars and melodies evoke what these other bands don't. They led to other bands, but they hold their own place. I could never stand Cocteau Twins or This Mortal Coil.
I guess I'm branching out a bit now, but another band that I don't think I will tire of is Bauhaus. Let the hate begin!
it's odd (for me anyway) to see these groups discussed as connected. JMC and MBV were noise merchants that were connected via label/management/same people involved behind the scenes. Unconnected (and prior to JMC/MBV appearing) Bauhaus were a goth group and very few of the JMC/MBV fans were goths until later on, swervedriver and telescopes were were a side issue/non-entity at the time, cocteau twins were something else entirely and if anything what JMC were against. The indie scene of goths and ethereal nonsense was viewed at the time as the antithesis of what someone like JMC stood for, anti-pretentious middle class music, JMC were totally about f**king people off and kicking everyone up the arse. MBV were about musical extremities. The other groups were either 2nd rate copyists or as already said, the enemy. This is how it was viewed at the time, not how their music has stood up in time, which is a different thing.
...a band that sounded like Mantronix-meets-the-Clash
Do you think the early Happy Mondays captured that vibe? (unwittingly of course, they were IIRC trying to sound like Chicago house, but with guitars. Drugs can do that to you.)
They're connected by their fans. Their affiliation may seem a stretch on paper, but they have a lot of fans in common - which includes a lot of middle class kids, whether JAMC wanted it or not.
Bauhaus were a goth group and very few of the JMC/MBV fans were goths until later on
In that they came to Bauhuas later? This is definitely not true for a lot of people. I'm not sure what you mean seeing as how Bauhuas were broken up by the time JAMC even showed up. I'm misunderstanding your point?
Despite what the groups' intentions were - kids, goth or not, had all these bands names written on their little canvas bags and wore their buttons on their jackets all next to each other.
another band that I don't think I will tire of is Bauhaus. Let the hate begin!
I just listened to In The Flat Field a couple of days ago, and it still holds up for me. Bleak as ever, but that works sometimes, if you're in the right mood.
another band that I don't think I will tire of is Bauhaus. Let the hate begin!
I just listened to In The Flat Field a couple of days ago, and it still holds up for me. Bleak as ever, but that works sometimes, if you're in the right mood.
I always sound check my Halloween parties with the Bela lugosi 12" played super duper loud. Dub-goth.
They're connected by their fans. Their affiliation may seem a stretch on paper, but they have a lot of fans in common - which includes a lot of middle class kids, whether JAMC wanted it or not.
Bauhaus were a goth group and very few of the JMC/MBV fans were goths until later on
In that they came to Bauhuas later? This is definitely not true for a lot of people. I'm not sure what you mean seeing as how Bauhuas were broken up by the time JAMC even showed up. I'm misunderstanding your point?
Despite what the groups' intentions were - kids, goth or not, had all these bands names written on their little canvas bags and wore their buttons on their jackets all next to each other.
No, you have read the sentence wrongly, its a misunderstanding or maybe not clear on my part. Bauhaus were a goth group. JAMC and MBV fanbase when they started out was not a goth fanbase. As they became more popular, some goths became fans, but goths also liked other forms of music and adpopted them into their goth world. I was at the gigs at the time, goths were mainly somewhere else entirely, it was a different scene. that was what I was saying. JMC and MBV were not ever interested in being labelled as goth groups, goth was considered way too pretentious to be taken seriously. And they weren't labelled as goth at the time. History may have blurred people into thinking they were connected to goth, but they were not, its totally wrong and re-writing history. which is why i find it strange that these 2 groups are being discussed with some of the others mentioned.
To hark back to a question asked earlier in this thread, the term 'shoegaze' came around because the bands used a lot of distortion pedals - hence looking down at their feet as they stepped on the relevant pedals. The term didn't come around because the band were scared of audience interaction (although they might have been).
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
...a band that sounded like Mantronix-meets-the-Clash
Do you think the early Happy Mondays captured that vibe? (unwittingly of course, they were IIRC trying to sound like Chicago house, but with guitars. Drugs can do that to you.)
I remember reading an interview with them early on in their career where they said they were trying to sound like the Stones, early Funkadelic and Can as much as early house records, which is pretty unusual for a bunch of roughnecks from Salford. Apart from "Hallelujah", I can't say I ever detected that much evidence of any of those things, but then I've always thought that some good music has arisen from bands trying to sound like a particular thing, getting it slightly wrong, and accidentally coming up with something interesting as a result.
To hark back to a question asked earlier in this thread, the term 'shoegaze' came around because the bands used a lot of distortion pedals - hence looking down at their feet as they stepped on the relevant pedals. The term didn't come around because the band were scared of audience interaction (although they might have been).
To hark back to a question asked earlier in this thread, the term 'shoegaze' came around because the bands used a lot of distortion pedals - hence looking down at their feet as they stepped on the relevant pedals. The term didn't come around because the band were scared of audience interaction (although they might have been).
Where did you hear that?
I'd say neither are entirely true.
I used to play that kind of music a lot. It's generally very monotonous. You have to get into a meditative state which is almost impossible to do while looking into a crowd of people (or in my case, an empty shithole bar--LOL). So you just look down and zone out...not so much from hitting pedals all the time.
They're connected by their fans. Their affiliation may seem a stretch on paper, but they have a lot of fans in common - which includes a lot of middle class kids, whether JAMC wanted it or not.
Bauhaus were a goth group and very few of the JMC/MBV fans were goths until later on
In that they came to Bauhuas later? This is definitely not true for a lot of people. I'm not sure what you mean seeing as how Bauhuas were broken up by the time JAMC even showed up. I'm misunderstanding your point?
Despite what the groups' intentions were - kids, goth or not, had all these bands names written on their little canvas bags and wore their buttons on their jackets all next to each other.
No, you have read the sentence wrongly, its a misunderstanding or maybe not clear on my part. Bauhaus were a goth group. JAMC and MBV fanbase when they started out was not a goth fanbase. As they became more popular, some goths became fans, but goths also liked other forms of music and adpopted them into their goth world. I was at the gigs at the time, goths were mainly somewhere else entirely, it was a different scene. that was what I was saying. JMC and MBV were not ever interested in being labelled as goth groups, goth was considered way too pretentious to be taken seriously. And they weren't labelled as goth at the time. History may have blurred people into thinking they were connected to goth, but they were not, its totally wrong and re-writing history. which is why i find it strange that these 2 groups are being discussed with some of the others mentioned.
I see your point. I am pretty removed from the whole goth and strict scene approach to listening to music and can only say that I love both Bauhaus and JAMC and was also listening to groups that were definitely "hated" by their hardcore fans: things like Bronski Beat, the Specials, Prince and the Human League. I don't think this is at all unique.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
To hark back to a question asked earlier in this thread, the term 'shoegaze' came around because the bands used a lot of distortion pedals - hence looking down at their feet as they stepped on the relevant pedals. The term didn't come around because the band were scared of audience interaction (although they might have been).
Where did you hear that?
It's actually the latter definition which is closest to the truth. A friend of mine used to work at Food Records, the label that put out the first Blur records many years ago. She is adamant to this day that her former boss and leading mover-and-shaker in the development of UK indie rock Andy Ross was the man who first coined the phrase "shoegazing", which the UK music press then picked up on. She said he came up with it as a result of going to see band after band who never looked up from their instruments at the audience. There was a regional aspect to it, though, as many of the sound's leading exponents came from the Thames Valley area of England.
Andy Ross was the man who first coined the phrase "shoegazing", which the UK music press then picked up on.
yup, totally true. heads down, staring at their shoes and the main instigators of that were Loop, in fact it may have related to them I can't remember that bit exactly, but was Andy Ross that said it. Blur were rubbish at the time (never was a fan, but I can appreciate why people liked them ,but they were complete rubbish at those early times of pub gigs).
J&MC - Les Rallizes Denudes make those doods sound like the partridge family
Whoa! Is this the first ever mention of Les Rallizes on the Strut?
I went on a mission to find as much of their shit as I could after reading Julian Cope's fascinating account of their history in his excellent "Japrocksampler". The whole smacked-out, echo-drenched, wall-of-feedback vibe takes time to get used to, but I actually find it strangely soothing after a while.
ditto
read it over xmas
i think ive managed to peep abotu 80% of the top 50 ...les rallizes was the TRU mindblower for me
now im WAY sucked into their rabbit hole ... listenin to the 2 cd mars studio shit right now.. a surprisingly mellow tangent from 1980.
but honestly "Heavier Than a Death in the Family" is doing the whole WALLLL of noise two note sub spector basslines monotonous floor tom drum thing at HUGE EAR SPLITTING volumes that J&MC did... except this was recorded in the early 70's!!
SWERVEDRIVER
theres some REAL SCHITT right there... EJECTOR SEAT RESERVATION
scoring Raise Down on 12" last year made me VERY VERY HAPPY
why does this have to be a competition? jesus and mary chain and mbv are both winners...and even though jmc got big first...weren't they contemporaries? mbv has all those really rare really early records which makes me think both bands started around the same time. mbv went much further than jmc and really created a sound like no other and they have a special place in my heart...but "psychocandy" is still so amazing...i love it all. but the best of jmc is really just beach boys with fuzz guitar...which is great. and suicide did that first anyways.
there was a big scene for "shoegazer" music in jacksonville, florida where i grew up. there was this all ages club called einstein a go-go and every weekend you could go there and dance to mbv, chapterhouse, swervedriver, it was great.
and yes, the best of this music has aged quite well. i just saw a used copy of the chapterhouse "whirlpool" the other day for $5...should have bought it...i'm sure it's still there.
the chapterhouse "whirlpool" the other day for $5...should have bought it...i'm sure it's still there.
That stuff tends to be a little pricey around here these days. (Richmond, VA--Plan 9) It's weird. I understand that the early Creation releases and stuff like that can be pricey, but stateside major label distributed titles are going for $20 and up. Flying off the shelf too.
Bobby at Smash in DC used to have that stuff in droves in the $5 range just a few years ago.
best of jmc is really just beach boys with fuzz guitar...which is great. and suicide did that first anyways.
Wait...what? You mean Suicide as in:
?[/b]
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
this thread made me dig back through some stuff. just played this one:
me likes. any riders?
Oh hells yes on Loop, although this is the only record of theirs that I currently have...
Not Englsh, but does anyone here aside from me ride for Codeine?
Oh yeah, even though I was riding fairly hard for JMC (Barbed Wire Kisses was my ish on the Walkman back when I worked a few months in high school as a stock boy at Weiner's) long before I ever encountered MBV...nothing is messing with Loveless.
Nothing, I say.
Oh yeah, I always remember the first time I ever heard JMC which was on a drive from Seal Beach back to Huntington with my mom. We were listening to Rodney on the ROQ and he played like 4 JMC songs in a row. Needless to say, I was really digging it and also simultaneously wondering how my mom could be so absentminded (believe me, it wasn't openminded) to be letting me listen to such tripped out music under her watch.
Comments
Out of all the bands mentioned - JAMC is the only one I actually still put on. It was one of the best shows of my youth and well-worth getting home at 4 am and grounded for.
It's a mix of music and nostalgia imo when it comes to these groups - JAMC were a big deal to me musically and memories-wise, so those guitars and melodies evoke what these other bands don't. They led to other bands, but they hold their own place.
I could never stand Cocteau Twins or This Mortal Coil.
I guess I'm branching out a bit now, but another band that I don't think I will tire of is Bauhaus. Let the hate begin!
it's odd (for me anyway) to see these groups discussed as connected. JMC and MBV were noise merchants that were connected via label/management/same people involved behind the scenes. Unconnected (and prior to JMC/MBV appearing) Bauhaus were a goth group and very few of the JMC/MBV fans were goths until later on, swervedriver and telescopes were were a side issue/non-entity at the time, cocteau twins were something else entirely and if anything what JMC were against. The indie scene of goths and ethereal nonsense was viewed at the time as the antithesis of what someone like JMC stood for, anti-pretentious middle class music, JMC were totally about f**king people off and kicking everyone up the arse. MBV were about musical extremities. The other groups were either 2nd rate copyists or as already said, the enemy. This is how it was viewed at the time, not how their music has stood up in time, which is a different thing.
Do you think the early Happy Mondays captured that vibe? (unwittingly of course, they were IIRC trying to sound like Chicago house, but with guitars. Drugs can do that to you.)
In that they came to Bauhuas later? This is definitely not true for a lot of people. I'm not sure what you mean seeing as how Bauhuas were broken up by the time JAMC even showed up. I'm misunderstanding your point?
Despite what the groups' intentions were - kids, goth or not, had all these bands names written on their little canvas bags and wore their buttons on their jackets all next to each other.
I just listened to In The Flat Field a couple of days ago, and it still holds up for me. Bleak as ever, but that works sometimes, if you're in the right mood.
I always sound check my Halloween parties with the Bela lugosi 12" played super duper loud. Dub-goth.
Flat Field is their best lp.
No, you have read the sentence wrongly, its a misunderstanding or maybe not clear on my part. Bauhaus were a goth group. JAMC and MBV fanbase when they started out was not a goth fanbase. As they became more popular, some goths became fans, but goths also liked other forms of music and adpopted them into their goth world. I was at the gigs at the time, goths were mainly somewhere else entirely, it was a different scene. that was what I was saying. JMC and MBV were not ever interested in being labelled as goth groups, goth was considered way too pretentious to be taken seriously. And they weren't labelled as goth at the time. History may have blurred people into thinking they were connected to goth, but they were not, its totally wrong and re-writing history. which is why i find it strange that these 2 groups are being discussed with some of the others mentioned.
whose fanbases were somewhat distinct from those who prefered domestic bands - i.e shit on SST etc
I remember reading an interview with them early on in their career where they said they were trying to sound like the Stones, early Funkadelic and Can as much as early house records, which is pretty unusual for a bunch of roughnecks from Salford. Apart from "Hallelujah", I can't say I ever detected that much evidence of any of those things, but then I've always thought that some good music has arisen from bands trying to sound like a particular thing, getting it slightly wrong, and accidentally coming up with something interesting as a result.
me likes. any riders?
Where did you hear that?
I'd say neither are entirely true.
I used to play that kind of music a lot. It's generally very monotonous. You have to get into a meditative state which is almost impossible to do while looking into a crowd of people (or in my case, an empty shithole bar--LOL). So you just look down and zone out...not so much from hitting pedals all the time.
I see your point. I am pretty removed from the whole goth and strict scene approach to listening to music and can only say that I love both Bauhaus and JAMC and was also listening to groups that were definitely "hated" by their hardcore fans: things like Bronski Beat, the Specials, Prince and the Human League. I don't think this is at all unique.
It's actually the latter definition which is closest to the truth. A friend of mine used to work at Food Records, the label that put out the first Blur records many years ago. She is adamant to this day that her former boss and leading mover-and-shaker in the development of UK indie rock Andy Ross was the man who first coined the phrase "shoegazing", which the UK music press then picked up on. She said he came up with it as a result of going to see band after band who never looked up from their instruments at the audience. There was a regional aspect to it, though, as many of the sound's leading exponents came from the Thames Valley area of England.
yup, totally true. heads down, staring at their shoes and the main instigators of that were Loop, in fact it may have related to them I can't remember that bit exactly, but was Andy Ross that said it. Blur were rubbish at the time (never was a fan, but I can appreciate why people liked them ,but they were complete rubbish at those early times of pub gigs).
ditto
read it over xmas
i think ive managed to peep abotu 80% of the top 50 ...les rallizes was the TRU mindblower for me
now im WAY sucked into their rabbit hole ... listenin to the 2 cd mars studio shit right now.. a surprisingly mellow tangent from 1980.
but honestly "Heavier Than a Death in the Family" is doing the whole WALLLL of noise two note sub spector basslines monotonous floor tom drum thing at HUGE EAR SPLITTING volumes that J&MC did... except this was recorded in the early 70's!!
SWERVEDRIVER
theres some REAL SCHITT right there... EJECTOR SEAT RESERVATION
scoring Raise Down on 12" last year made me VERY VERY HAPPY
possibly tied with Daydream Nation
OK, now you're just being silly.
haha!!!Shit's going to hit the fan now! lmao
there was a big scene for "shoegazer" music in jacksonville, florida where i grew up. there was this all ages club called einstein a go-go and every weekend you could go there and dance to mbv, chapterhouse, swervedriver, it was great.
and yes, the best of this music has aged quite well. i just saw a used copy of the chapterhouse "whirlpool" the other day for $5...should have bought it...i'm sure it's still there.
That stuff tends to be a little pricey around here these days. (Richmond, VA--Plan 9) It's weird. I understand that the early Creation releases and stuff like that can be pricey, but stateside major label distributed titles are going for $20 and up. Flying off the shelf too.
Bobby at Smash in DC used to have that stuff in droves in the $5 range just a few years ago.
Wait...what? You mean Suicide as in:
Oh hells yes on Loop, although this is the only record of theirs that I currently have...
Not Englsh, but does anyone here aside from me ride for Codeine?
Oh yeah, even though I was riding fairly hard for JMC (Barbed Wire Kisses was my ish on the Walkman back when I worked a few months in high school as a stock boy at Weiner's) long before I ever encountered MBV...nothing is messing with Loveless.
Nothing, I say.
Oh yeah, I always remember the first time I ever heard JMC which was on a drive from Seal Beach back to Huntington with my mom. We were listening to Rodney on the ROQ and he played like 4 JMC songs in a row. Needless to say, I was really digging it and also simultaneously wondering how my mom could be so absentminded (believe me, it wasn't openminded) to be letting me listen to such tripped out music under her watch.
they've got they're back catalogue up o ntheir website for free download
such a GREAT band
http://evil-office.net/swirlies/index.htm
I never realized they were known that well outside of Boston.