People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
That's very true. I don't think the American gov't is going to act on the behalf of those in need anymore barring violent revolution.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
That's very true. I don't think the American gov't is going to act on the behalf of those in need anymore barring violent revolution.
Those in need of other people finally looking at them as other people???
Naw, I don't think the government ever intended to help in that area.
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
That's very true. I don't think the American gov't is going to act on the behalf of those in need anymore barring violent revolution.
Those in need of other people finally looking at them as other people???
Naw, I don't think the government ever intended to help in that area.
Huh? I was speaking on the bullshit schools and neighborhoods. Not really sure what you're saying.
also, if you are citing Dyson as an authority on anything, i don't think you should be giving reading advice.
Have you read the book?
-e
i've read a few chapters in the bookstore as well as a half dozen or so articles about the book(s). i also have seen him talk about it enough that i could probably tell you the subject and thesis of every chapter.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
I'm saying though... going through these hoods my heart just breaks. It's fucking criminal that you have folks living like that. I tell you, the places I end up in most of you do not want to ever be. I feel like fucking crying sometimes on my way home, because I get to leave! These folks go to sleep and wake up with that every day. Dirty ass stairwells and shit. Broken windows and sleeping four to a bed. The smell of crack and burnt plastic.
Did gangster rap make crackheads? Did it make that fucking smell in the hallways, somewhere between gas, dead rats, and fast food? Did gangster rap make Arab and Asian corner stores that peddle malt liquor and tropical fantasy, hostess and pork rinds and basically sponsor the drug dealers that hang outside?
Motherfuckers act like it's a god-given right to listen to gangster shit but when it comes to talking about the plight of the community and the people, dudes act like they have neither the will, the qualifications, nor the interest to do anything.
I'm not personally mad at Bill Cosby, I think his heart is in the right place, but I get irritated at these white folks who want to get crunk in a safe environment but don't have an ounce of interest in seeing Black folks raise up.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
That's very true. I don't think the American gov't is going to act on the behalf of those in need anymore barring violent revolution.
Those in need of other people finally looking at them as other people???
Naw, I don't think the government ever intended to help in that area.
Huh? I was speaking on the bullshit schools and neighborhoods. Not really sure what you're saying.
I'm saying that even if a "good school" was built, it's still likely to fall into the hands of administrators and faculty that have no clue on how not to be discriminatory. Build a "good neighborhood", and it's still likely to suffer from people from other parts of town never going there and thus never spending their money there.
Not to say that infrastructure doesn't need attention, but IMO it's the people factor that ultimately does the worst damage.
also, if you are citing Dyson as an authority on anything, i don't think you should be giving reading advice.
Have you read the book?
-e
i've read a few chapters in the bookstore as well as a half dozen or so articles about the book(s). i also have seen him talk about it enough that i could probably tell you the subject and thesis of every chapter.
We've all read a few articles by Cosby and a half dozen or so articles about his new book. We have also seen him talk about it enough that we could probably tell you the subject of his Meet the Press appearance without having seen it.
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
While I am not really disaggreeing with you per se, I do need to point out that in those situations is where the parenting really comes into play. "Those schools" and "those neighborhoods" are populated with a majority of people who trying to do the right things, trying to stay out of trouble, and trying to get something for themselves as opposed to just living day by day, by people who know what's up between right and wrong. This is where parenting makes the biggest difference, especially for kids who may be drawn to the bullshit for whatever reason. As kids get older, they are going to persue what they are going to persue, and are ultimately responsible for themselves as they approach adulthood. Parents who give a shit often make the difference in how those negative elements become motivating factors as opposed to anchors around their children's necks.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
While I am not really disaggreeing with you per se, I do need to point out that in those situations is where the parenting really comes into play. "Those schools" and "those neighborhoods" are populated with a majority of people who trying to do the right things, trying to stay out of trouble, and trying to get something for themselves as opposed to just living day by day, by people who know what's up between right and wrong. This is where parenting makes the biggest difference, especially for kids who may be drawn to the bullshit for whatever reason. As kids get older, they are going to persue what they are going to persue, and are ultimately responsible for themselves as they approach adulthood. Parents who give a shit often make the difference in how those negative elements become motivating factors as opposed to anchors around their children's necks.
I've heard way too many teachers trying to blame parents for not being able to do their own jobs as teachers.
Surely, in some case, it's warranted.
But more often, the teachers are underqualified for and simultaneously unwilling to rise up to the task at hand. And in many cases, this makes the school district happy in compounding a problem that will likely become the source of major $ research/rectification funds.
And do notice the tendency for teachers who are successful in difficult environments to be promoted right out of the schools where they are most needed.
also, if you are citing Dyson as an authority on anything, i don't think you should be giving reading advice.
Have you read the book?
-e
i've read a few chapters in the bookstore as well as a half dozen or so articles about the book(s). i also have seen him talk about it enough that i could probably tell you the subject and thesis of every chapter.
We've all read a few articles by Cosby and a half dozen or so articles about his new book. We have also seen him talk about it enough that we could probably tell you the subject of his Meet the Press appearance without having seen it.
-e
that was predictable....and i like how you followed through even though the setup didn't go as you had planned.
this is getting really stupid.
my fault for assuming that a thread titled "cosby on meet the press" might actually be discussing what he said, and not this tired debate about rap music, that was, at best, discussed for a total of 3 minutes on mtp...and is still being misrepresented on here. whatever. carry on...
I'm saying though... going through these hoods my heart just breaks. It's fucking criminal that you have folks living like that. I tell you, the places I end up in most of you do not want to ever be. I feel like fucking crying sometimes on my way home, because I get to leave! These folks go to sleep and wake up with that every day. Dirty ass stairwells and shit. Broken windows and sleeping four to a bed. The smell of crack and burnt plastic.
Did gangster rap make crackheads? Did it make that fucking smell in the hallways, somewhere between gas, dead rats, and fast food? Did gangster rap make Arab and Asian corner stores that peddle malt liquor and tropical fantasy, hostess and pork rinds and basically sponsor the drug dealers that hang outside?
Motherfuckers act like it's a god-given right to listen to gangster shit but when it comes to talking about the plight of the community and the people, dudes act like they have neither the will, the qualifications, nor the interest to do anything.
I'm not personally mad at Bill Cosby, I think his heart is in the right place, but I get irritated at these white folks who want to get crunk in a safe environment but don't have an ounce of interest in seeing Black folks raise up.
I really just don't understand equating "gangsta rap" with the sad reality of this environment. Yes, it speaks about it and many times comes from this environment, but rap music does not even come close to making these neighborhoods what they are. I won't argue that it's saving these neighborhoods either, but what is so ridiculous about this conversation is that there are multitudes of REAL LIFE social, economic, and political reasons that things are the way they are, and people want to talk about RAP MUSIC. I mean, it's so ludicrous to me that rap music is even a part of this conversation.
And who's personally mad at Bill Cosby? Bill Cosby's heart is obviously in the right place. That doesn't mean his criticism can't in turn be criticized.
And just for the record, I currently live in the hood in North Philly. It's not terribly terribly hood like a lot of neighborhoods throughout this city, but there's a stench iminating from the middle of my block that's so ridiculously strong and pungent and disgusting, everyone on my block basically agrees it's probably a dead body. I see horrible, awful things throughout the city every week, and have to read about them daily--murder after murder after murder, some only a couple blocks from where I (by choice) lay my head to rest every night with my girl. My boy who teaches at a reform school is constantly telling me these sad stories about the kids who wind up at his school, doomed to be incarcerated (if they haven't already been), and I've met a number of these kids. Some in normal social situations like at the movies or on the street in the neighborhood, and others in less normal situations where we see dude hustling on a corner. It's not like I'm blind to what's going on around me and it's not like I'm insulated from this stuff.
I just can't see how rap music ever enters this conversation and to even introduce it as a serious topic of discussion as "a major part of the problem" seems to me to be totally besides the point and even pretty offensive.
As if rap music was all happy these problems would just go away?
People need to raise their kids right and be active in their lives.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
While I am not really disaggreeing with you per se, I do need to point out that in those situations is where the parenting really comes into play. "Those schools" and "those neighborhoods" are populated with a majority of people who trying to do the right things, trying to stay out of trouble, and trying to get something for themselves as opposed to just living day by day, by people who know what's up between right and wrong. This is where parenting makes the biggest difference, especially for kids who may be drawn to the bullshit for whatever reason. As kids get older, they are going to persue what they are going to persue, and are ultimately responsible for themselves as they approach adulthood. Parents who give a shit often make the difference in how those negative elements become motivating factors as opposed to anchors around their children's necks.
I've heard way too many teachers trying to blame parents for not being able to do their own jobs as teachers.
Surely, in some case, it's warranted.
But more often, the teachers are underqualified for and simultaneously unwilling to rise up to the task at hand. And in many cases, this makes the school district happy in compounding a problem that will likely become the source of major $ research/rectification funds.
And do notice the tendency for teachers who are successful in difficult environments to be promoted right out of the schools where they are most needed.
To be honest, I was not really being specific to schools, but rather overall communities, neighborhoods, etc. School on the social level is what I was addressing, not necessarily the academic situation. That to me is a whole other kettle of fish. Or at least another thread.
I think you misunderstand me E - I'm saying that rap music has LITTLE if anything to do with this scenario and that it frustrates me (as, apparently, it does you) that people would rather discuss rap music than the actual causes of this shit.
I think where you got me twitted was where I say that it frustrates me, as well, that people want *just* to listen to hardcore rap music and wish away the problems that sit quietly (or not so) behind it. That's not a dig on you, just an observation. I know you're the racial thinker.
I don't think Cosby hates rap. The dude in a small way is responsible for bringing rap into the homes of millions in the mid 80's. Sure, his love of Jazz was more showcased through the series. But I'm betting for alot of people. The first time they heard of rap was seeing it in the show.
Also, Isn't Cosby really pushing at a bigger issue, which is parents to get more involved in their kids lives?
Maybe The Coz is just pissed off that him being 70 years old and he looks at the leaders today and nobody is talking about shit.
sure i could talk about the plight of the inner city black youth, but considering i know absolutely nothing about that,
Then where do you get the balls to question Bill Cosby who in turn is actually trying to address issues he feels HIS COMMUNITY has to deal with? That would like me saying "You know, I don't know shit about Darfur, but this talking head is really full of shit".
Whether you agree or not, ultimately it's not your call and a lot of people on something like Soulstrut to make a call on what is good and isn't good for the African-American Community especially when it's a prominent African-American.
I'm not saying people outside of the community can't ananlyze what Bill or anyone else in a similar situation is saying but really a white dude who like you even said yourself "knows absolutely nothing about inner city black youth" really shoudn't say shit about Bill Cosby, especially when a major grip is that he isn't mentioning "big enough" rappers.
By no means is this a jab or me tryin to start shit but I've always found these frequent "Bill Cosby is old" witchunts to be hilarious because they are always spearheaded by a bunch of white folks who have the priveledge to sort of critique from an armchair.
My two cents: It's everything, and as much as it goes in cycles it also branches in a ton of directions with a lot of different variables on why communities are the way they are. I also think that "gangsta rap" isn't the one problem that's Frickin' up people of color, but it doesn't help, because for better or for worse music has a huge influence on young kids. Not just in the black community, but in latino, asian, etc...
As if rap music was all happy these problems would just go away?
I mean, come on.
-e
Here's the thing - did rap music cause these problems? No. Will getting rid of rap music solve them? Hell no.
Does it contribute, in some meaningful fashion, to these problems? Well...
What we have here is a classic debate around the power of media in shaping our ideas. Popular culture didn't create sexism for example, but there's no way you're not going to convince me that male/female relations aren't influenced by what gets cycled through media/pop culture and frankly, I doubt most of you would deny that what we see out there is a legit cause for concern SO LONG AS WE'RE NOT SCAPEGOATING media/culture as the sole/major source of the problem.
for those who are arguing on the past ideas and quotesd from Bill Cosby here is an actual quote from his new book.
Quote about "gangta rap" from Cosby's book
"Gangsta rap promotes the widespread use of the N-word to sell CD's among people of all ethnic groups. In fact, the audience for gangsta rap is made up predominantly of white youth, who get a thrill from participating in a black thug fantasy, including the degradation of women. Black youth, as well as some misguided adults have defended the use of the N-word, suggesting they are somehow making it a positive term.
Don't fall for that nonsense. The N-word is a vile symbol of our oppression by slave masters" Pg. 144
Bill Cosby's heart is obviously in the right place. That doesn't mean his criticism can't in turn be criticized.
My only problem with Bill Cosby is he's a goddamn hypocrite.
has he ever explained his bankrolling of Sweetsweetback? Not exactly family fare...
Dude, talk about taking shit out of historical context. C'mon now, don't even go there.
why not? that movie is borderline porn that he obviously saw artistic merit in...he does not see artistic merit in G Rap, would like to hear his explanation of the difference.
I don't think Cosby hates rap. The dude in a small way is responsible for bringing rap into the homes of millions in the mid 80's. Sure, his love of Jazz was more showcased through the series. But I'm betting for alot of people. The first time they heard of rap was seeing it in the show.
Well, let's be honest here...the typical East Coast black teenager in the eighties probably wasn't listening to Wynton Marsalis, so when you saw Theo and Cockroach hanging out together, naturally they'd have to be listening to rap. Just 'cause Cosby acknowledged the trends doesn't mean he was into them.
Besides, remember that episode where the subplot was Theo & Cockroach forming a rap duo? Intermittently throughout the whole ep, you'd see the two of them busting some rhymes about partying, women, whatever young folks would be doing. Towards the episode's end, Cosby scolds them into singing about something more positive...the last thing we see them do is rapping about education, or something similar. So even then Cosby was on a crusade.
sure i could talk about the plight of the inner city black youth, but considering i know absolutely nothing about that,
Then where do you get the balls to question Bill Cosby who in turn is actually trying to address issues he feels HIS COMMUNITY has to deal with? That would like me saying "You know, I don't know shit about Darfur, but this talking head is really full of shit".
jesus dude...not you too.
at least 3 times in this thread i have talked about how my issues with that Cosby interview was his use examples and information from the rap world that seem clearly out dated. in the context of a MTP interview, i found it odd that Russert would let him get away with citing rap lyrics and data that don't seem to be based on the current hip-hop climate.
Cosby's comments, that well-to-do rich (white) people are the ones making money off the degradation of the black community via rap music, seem slightly out dated to me given that all the news i see about the music industry, and rap specifically, have shown how horrible the industry is doing right now. Perhaps ten years ago, i would have been more likely to see his point, but nowadays, i don't see music execs saying "yeah, rap about rape in your song and we will sell more music".
In fact, Russert could have thrown him a bone and asked if the current slide in rap sales was the result of a backlash relating to the content, but he didn't. no one in this interview felt the need to approach the subject of the rap music industry using the most up to date information. That is my point.[/b]
Please, unless you guys want to debate/argue my point about the accuracy of his hip-hop argument with respect to current music climate, please don't quote me. I'm not sure how to articulate this anymore clearly. i don't have any issue with Cosby criticizing the issues that affect black communities (or any community for that matter), but i do have issues with him using bad information to do so. that's all i am trying to say.
Comments
No matter how "active" parents are in their childrens lives, if the kids are attending bullshit schools and living in a bullshit neighborhood those negative influences will affect the childs development.....Peer groups have just as much say in a childs personal growth as parenting...The problem is socio-econimocal not just negligent parenting.
That's very true. I don't think the American gov't is going to act on the behalf of those in need anymore barring violent revolution.
Those in need of other people finally looking at them as other people???
Naw, I don't think the government ever intended to help in that area.
Huh? I was speaking on the bullshit schools and neighborhoods. Not really sure what you're saying.
i've read a few chapters in the bookstore as well as a half dozen or so articles about the book(s). i also have seen him talk about it enough that i could probably tell you the subject and thesis of every chapter.
I'm saying though... going through these hoods my heart just breaks. It's fucking criminal that you have folks living like that. I tell you, the places I end up in most of you do not want to ever be. I feel like fucking crying sometimes on my way home, because I get to leave! These folks go to sleep and wake up with that every day. Dirty ass stairwells and shit. Broken windows and sleeping four to a bed. The smell of crack and burnt plastic.
Did gangster rap make crackheads? Did it make that fucking smell in the hallways, somewhere between gas, dead rats, and fast food? Did gangster rap make Arab and Asian corner stores that peddle malt liquor and tropical fantasy, hostess and pork rinds and basically sponsor the drug dealers that hang outside?
Motherfuckers act like it's a god-given right to listen to gangster shit but when it comes to talking about the plight of the community and the people, dudes act like they have neither the will, the qualifications, nor the interest to do anything.
I'm not personally mad at Bill Cosby, I think his heart is in the right place, but I get irritated at these white folks who want to get crunk in a safe environment but don't have an ounce of interest in seeing Black folks raise up.
I'm saying that even if a "good school" was built, it's still likely to fall into the hands of administrators and faculty that have no clue on how not to be discriminatory. Build a "good neighborhood", and it's still likely to suffer from people from other parts of town never going there and thus never spending their money there.
Not to say that infrastructure doesn't need attention, but IMO it's the people factor that ultimately does the worst damage.
We've all read a few articles by Cosby and a half dozen or so articles about his new book. We have also seen him talk about it enough that we could probably tell you the subject of his Meet the Press appearance without having seen it.
-e
While I am not really disaggreeing with you per se, I do need to point out that in those situations is where the parenting really comes into play. "Those schools" and "those neighborhoods" are populated with a majority of people who trying to do the right things, trying to stay out of trouble, and trying to get something for themselves as opposed to just living day by day, by people who know what's up between right and wrong. This is where parenting makes the biggest difference, especially for kids who may be drawn to the bullshit for whatever reason. As kids get older, they are going to persue what they are going to persue, and are ultimately responsible for themselves as they approach adulthood. Parents who give a shit often make the difference in how those negative elements become motivating factors as opposed to anchors around their children's necks.
I've heard way too many teachers trying to blame parents for not being able to do their own jobs as teachers.
Surely, in some case, it's warranted.
But more often, the teachers are underqualified for and simultaneously unwilling to rise up to the task at hand. And in many cases, this makes the school district happy in compounding a problem that will likely become the source of major $ research/rectification funds.
And do notice the tendency for teachers who are successful in difficult environments to be promoted right out of the schools where they are most needed.
that was predictable....and i like how you followed through even though the setup didn't go as you had planned.
this is getting really stupid.
my fault for assuming that a thread titled "cosby on meet the press" might actually be discussing what he said, and not this tired debate about rap music, that was, at best, discussed for a total of 3 minutes on mtp...and is still being misrepresented on here. whatever. carry on...
I really just don't understand equating "gangsta rap" with the sad reality of this environment. Yes, it speaks about it and many times comes from this environment, but rap music does not even come close to making these neighborhoods what they are. I won't argue that it's saving these neighborhoods either, but what is so ridiculous about this conversation is that there are multitudes of REAL LIFE social, economic, and political reasons that things are the way they are, and people want to talk about RAP MUSIC. I mean, it's so ludicrous to me that rap music is even a part of this conversation.
And who's personally mad at Bill Cosby? Bill Cosby's heart is obviously in the right place. That doesn't mean his criticism can't in turn be criticized.
And just for the record, I currently live in the hood in North Philly. It's not terribly terribly hood like a lot of neighborhoods throughout this city, but there's a stench iminating from the middle of my block that's so ridiculously strong and pungent and disgusting, everyone on my block basically agrees it's probably a dead body. I see horrible, awful things throughout the city every week, and have to read about them daily--murder after murder after murder, some only a couple blocks from where I (by choice) lay my head to rest every night with my girl. My boy who teaches at a reform school is constantly telling me these sad stories about the kids who wind up at his school, doomed to be incarcerated (if they haven't already been), and I've met a number of these kids. Some in normal social situations like at the movies or on the street in the neighborhood, and others in less normal situations where we see dude hustling on a corner. It's not like I'm blind to what's going on around me and it's not like I'm insulated from this stuff.
I just can't see how rap music ever enters this conversation and to even introduce it as a serious topic of discussion as "a major part of the problem" seems to me to be totally besides the point and even pretty offensive.
As if rap music was all happy these problems would just go away?
I mean, come on.
-e
To be honest, I was not really being specific to schools, but rather overall communities, neighborhoods, etc. School on the social level is what I was addressing, not necessarily the academic situation. That to me is a whole other kettle of fish. Or at least another thread.
I think where you got me twitted was where I say that it frustrates me, as well, that people want *just* to listen to hardcore rap music and wish away the problems that sit quietly (or not so) behind it. That's not a dig on you, just an observation. I know you're the racial thinker.
when children grow up impoverished, being an "active" parent isn't enough...
Working a 9-5 leaves your child vulnerable to the streets.
Collecting welfare and staying home still leaves your child vulnerable to the streets.
My only problem with Bill Cosby is he's a goddamn hypocrite.
has he ever explained his bankrolling of Sweetsweetback? Not exactly family fare...
I don't think Cosby hates rap. The dude in a small way is responsible for bringing rap into the homes of millions in the mid 80's. Sure, his love of Jazz was more showcased through the series. But I'm betting for alot of people. The first time they heard of rap was seeing it in the show.
Also, Isn't Cosby really pushing at a bigger issue, which is parents to get more involved in their kids lives?
Maybe The Coz is just pissed off that him being 70 years old and he looks at the leaders today and nobody is talking about shit.
Then where do you get the balls to question Bill Cosby who in turn is actually trying to address issues he feels HIS COMMUNITY has to deal with? That would like me saying "You know, I don't know shit about Darfur, but this talking head is really full of shit".
Whether you agree or not, ultimately it's not your call and a lot of people on something like Soulstrut to make a call on what is good and isn't good for the African-American Community especially when it's a prominent African-American.
I'm not saying people outside of the community can't ananlyze what Bill or anyone else in a similar situation is saying but really a white dude who like you even said yourself "knows absolutely nothing about inner city black youth" really shoudn't say shit about Bill Cosby, especially when a major grip is that he isn't mentioning "big enough" rappers.
By no means is this a jab or me tryin to start shit but I've always found these frequent "Bill Cosby is old" witchunts to be hilarious because they are always spearheaded by a bunch of white folks who have the priveledge to sort of critique from an armchair.
My two cents: It's everything, and as much as it goes in cycles it also branches in a ton of directions with a lot of different variables on why communities are the way they are. I also think that "gangsta rap" isn't the one problem that's Frickin' up people of color, but it doesn't help, because for better or for worse music has a huge influence on young kids. Not just in the black community, but in latino, asian, etc...
Dude, talk about taking shit out of historical context. C'mon now, don't even go there.
Here's the thing - did rap music cause these problems? No.
Will getting rid of rap music solve them? Hell no.
Does it contribute, in some meaningful fashion, to these problems? Well...
What we have here is a classic debate around the power of media in shaping our ideas. Popular culture didn't create sexism for example, but there's no way you're not going to convince me that male/female relations aren't influenced by what gets cycled through media/pop culture and frankly, I doubt most of you would deny that what we see out there is a legit cause for concern SO LONG AS WE'RE NOT SCAPEGOATING media/culture as the sole/major source of the problem.
why not? that movie is borderline porn that he obviously saw artistic merit in...he does not see artistic merit in G Rap, would like to hear his explanation of the difference.
Then why aren't white neighborhoods predominantly fucked up? Oh yeah, because societal factors--not music--lead to said conditions.
Total agreement. Impassioned real world experience talk. Much appreciated.
Well, let's be honest here...the typical East Coast black teenager in the eighties probably wasn't listening to Wynton Marsalis, so when you saw Theo and Cockroach hanging out together, naturally they'd have to be listening to rap. Just 'cause Cosby acknowledged the trends doesn't mean he was into them.
Besides, remember that episode where the subplot was Theo & Cockroach forming a rap duo? Intermittently throughout the whole ep, you'd see the two of them busting some rhymes about partying, women, whatever young folks would be doing. Towards the episode's end, Cosby scolds them into singing about something more positive...the last thing we see them do is rapping about education, or something similar. So even then Cosby was on a crusade.
jesus dude...not you too.
at least 3 times in this thread i have talked about how my issues with that Cosby interview was his use examples and information from the rap world that seem clearly out dated. in the context of a MTP interview, i found it odd that Russert would let him get away with citing rap lyrics and data that don't seem to be based on the current hip-hop climate.
Cosby's comments, that well-to-do rich (white) people are the ones making money off the degradation of the black community via rap music, seem slightly out dated to me given that all the news i see about the music industry, and rap specifically, have shown how horrible the industry is doing right now. Perhaps ten years ago, i would have been more likely to see his point, but nowadays, i don't see music execs saying "yeah, rap about rape in your song and we will sell more music".
In fact, Russert could have thrown him a bone and asked if the current slide in rap sales was the result of a backlash relating to the content, but he didn't. no one in this interview felt the need to approach the subject of the rap music industry using the most up to date information. That is my point.[/b]
Please, unless you guys want to debate/argue my point about the accuracy of his hip-hop argument with respect to current music climate, please don't quote me. I'm not sure how to articulate this anymore clearly. i don't have any issue with Cosby criticizing the issues that affect black communities (or any community for that matter), but i do have issues with him using bad information to do so. that's all i am trying to say.