Cosby on Meet The Press (Kinda RR)
jlee
1,539 Posts
Anyone catch this over the weekend. I subscribe to the MTP podcast, so i was watching it on the train last night. I think Cosby's heart is in the right place, but his testimonial, research and anecdotes just don't seem to be providing anything new to the table. Also, Russert was throwing him nothing but soft balls all interview.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/Anyway, about 10min into the interview the topic of Rap music comes up and Cosby does his song & dance about how bad 'gangsta rap' is and how it negatively affects the community and so on.We have all heard this issue many times before, but what struck me as odd, is that no one made any comments about how bad the music industry is doing. Rap sales (and all music sales) have been declining, and i would be shocked if many rappers are making late 90's money nowadays off just their music. Yet, Cosby kept referring to how rich people were getting off of 'gangsta rap' music, and the whole time i was thinking dude is just reciting the same noise he did 5 years ago.Anyway, it just seemed odd to me, because for the first time, not only did i think the argument against rap was misdirected because of issues dealing with free expression and such, but also for the fact that i just don't think it nearly has the same influence on people as it once did. Specifically, i don't buy the idea that higher ups in the music bizz (i.e. rich white people) have nearly the clout and influence to summon what type of rap music is made anymore.thoughts?
Comments
cosby has a lot of balls and i think what he is doing is commendable...and then some. he knows that white people can use his comments as a launching pad to degrade black people, but sometimes you need to risk being politically incorrect and offending people in order to accomplish a greater good. the truth is that he is speaking to black people, specifically black fathers in a way that a father might speak to his son. if you walked away from his meet the press interview thinking about rap music than you should have been watching this week with george stephanopalus instead.
agreed, but since Soul Strut on occasion tends to be website that discusses music, i chose to reflect on the portion of the interview about hip-hop.
but if u just take what he says out of context then you miss the point. he's basically saying that the black community is in a state of emergency. the statistics about single mothers, % of blacks in jail or in parole, the fact that black women double the amount of black men in college, etc., are all jaw-dropping. due to this situation, i don't think its too controversial to suggest that lessening the amount of gangster rap that gets distributed by major labels might, in some way, keep kids distracted from bad influences.
again, if any of what he said was said in a forum that was 100% black, i would think that the entire audience would stand up an applaud (and i'm sure this happens, since he has been touring the country doing these "call-outs" for the past couple years).
People seem to rather argue about which came first, the proverbial chicken or the egg, instead of actually thinking how we can begin to affect change.
I could do without A LOT of the rap that's out there now. And some of the schitt is so stereotypically bad that it's funny.
I spent a few hours in a couple different projects uptown yesterday and it's worse than ever. As dick jean wearing nerds hustle from the train stop to their apartments, kids younger than me sell crack in the courtyard in plain view. The conditions in the halls, the elevators, the apartments themselves were worse than even what I was seeing back in the 90s.
In order to cash out the guy I was buying records from, I had to go break a $100 bill at the bodega. The Arab said he didn't have $100 in 20s (are you kidding me???) so the dope boy in front was like "I'll spot you" and pulled out a wad of cash as big as my head.
Then he got real close to the shopkeep and said "you better start acting right" and by the shopkeep's face you'd think he was from Shook-istan. No question who's running shit around there. I parked illegally and was worrying aloud and my host said, "man the cops don't come around here. You don't have to worry." I saw a couple of beat cops strolling over by the new, renovated buildings though.
I mean, in a city where apartments uptown are selling for 3/4 of a mil (plus) does anyone even give a shit? Where were the white folks that supposedly took over the neighborhood? Ducking on and off the metro north, very quickly.
I understand that this is long-winded and not even really addressing points, but damn. We've been fighting for our right to listen to this music for how long. And where has it gotten us? How have any lives been improved, besides those of the artists? And most of the white folks that buy and listen to this music couldn't give less than a shit about what's going on in the neighborhoods that produced it. So much for the CNN of the skreets.
Earlier in the day I was out around Boston Road, Baychester, E 233rd, Edenwald area and shit was pretty calm. There was a mobile command unit right up the side of the Edenwald Projects. More cops aren't necessarily the answer, but there were families and kids and working people existing in peace. If we think we can police our own neighborhoods better than them, then who's going to step up? Then you go downtown and see basically total chaos and mayhem while mere blocks away some dude is thinking about how to construct a climate controlled wine cellar in the basement of his newly-purchased brownstone. Or some shit.
Fuck.
When someone is out of touch, often they use the term "the rap." I wonder why that is linguistically/psychologically?
I think it was Michael E Dyson on the Bill Maher show a few weeks ago who was echoing your sentiments about the chicken vs egg, and the 'meeting half way'
both points that i agree with.
i think what struck me as odd with Bill's commentary on rap music was how dated it seemed. i really just felt like it was taken out of the exact same discussions that were taking place in the NWA & 2-Live Crew days. To the point where the song "F*ck the Police" is brought up again and again like it was recorded over the summer and not 20 years ago.
in the context of a MTP interview, i just found it interesting that Russert didn't even make any points to how the industry has changed.
and just to reiterate, my point wasn't necessarily to disagree with Bill's opinion, as it was to point out how the argument for and against rap music in main stream media seems to be at a standstill over the past 15+ years. Which perhaps lends itself to the question if rap music itself has evolved any of over the past 15+ years.
He doesn't know any more than Bill does on the subject, most likely significantly less.
It has, the critique has not.
you guys sound like a bunch of people who listened in on a conversation that wasn't directed at you and are now trying to isolate the single, most insignificant issue to talk about, since its the only one that relates to your life.
i wonder if anyone outside of soulstrut finished watching meet the press and then sat around discussing what cosby had to say....about hip hop.
This response should derail any and all civil discourse.
Solid.
Really, does it make Cos' points any less valid because he doesn't have the latest Clipse mix?
Yes. The anger is different, the topics are different, and what is being said is different, however slightly it varies from the sum total, then vs. now.
Why eh Ed? I'm serious. When I'm out and about there are a ton of kids I wanna slap the shit out of for not acting right, and as a sidenote, they are often terrible little bastard white kids.
HA. Did you pay attention to what he said, or just the 3 minutes when he talked about rap music? Who the fuck cares whether he references nwa or 50 cent. wow.
His point is that drastic times call for drastic measures. cosby is trying to shock people with the statistics about blacks and prison, poverty, education, pregnancy, etc., and then MOTIVATE people to take action. the most important stats were those that compared black families in the 1950s and 60s to those of today. i think something like 60% of black kids back then grew up in 2 parent homes, now the number is drastically lower, i think 20%. cosby uses rap music to try and drive home the fact that fathers are acting/talking like kids and they need to grow up. he doesn't really give a shit about the lyrics or the music. you don't see him marching with al sharpton trying to get snoop to stop usinig the word "ho". he has a much broader message.
dude...you're weird. i don't really have much to comment on about the other topics of this interview because:
1. I agree with many of his points
2. I cannot speak on those that don't apply to me
but since i consider myself somewhat involved with hip-hop and do care how it is portrayed in the media, i don't think it so absurd for me to critique a person who was basically given an open forum to blast rap music, yet found it convenient to not reference anything positive about the art form and also not address how the music environment has changed.
and to your point.
no, i don't. that's why i am talking about it on SoulStrut. I don't get why you are so against me talking about hip-hop on this forum.
A few, but not many.
How many dudes kept themselves from ever trying lean becasue they knew that Screw died?
A few, but not many.
How many dudes are going to quit sipping lean because Big Moe died?
A few, but not many. The reality is that barre swigging fans of Big Moe are more likely to down an extra strong dose in his honor rather than even beginning to think about quitting.
But how many dudes are going to keep themselves from ever trying lean because they know that Big Moe died?
Hopefully more than a few, but it's not likely.
We could do the the same set of questions surrounding guns and the deaths of Fat Pat and HAWK...with the same results.
Point being, there are things much, much larger than music that are persuading young folks into destructive behaviors. And in this case, stopping short of indicting institutional racism that has kids floundering in neighborhoods with limited services, in schools with limited resources, in families with limited parental presence, all within a system that deliberately fast-tracks them to prison...is nothing but a cop-out. Yes, gangtsa rap just might be yet another problem contributing to this bullshit, but it's gotta be no more than like 1000th on the priority list. And for someone to spend so much time addressing the 1000th priority as they simultaneously neglect the 999 tougher priorities that come before it, = mad
Cosigning HarveyC is a new one for me, but I gotta roll with dude.
i'm not, but your bringing up an important topic and talking about the shit that is insignificant, which is sorta irritating. its like starting a thread and titling it "the war in iraq" and then limiting your posts to what rappers have to say about it. the soulstrut police will let you slide if you start a thread that doesn't mention records, djing or hip hop.
the popeye's side order thread is hundreds of posts and counting...
But he's relying on stereotypes that aren't necessarily based on reality. There are too many dudes out there who on the surface (to the uninitiated) may appear to be the negative product of gangsta rap, but are actually really good dads. You can go from the dudes who even when they go to church dress gangsta yet hold down jobs, stay home with their kids, coach little league, etc. Then there are the dudes who might actually be gangsta rappers who might be separated from their baby's mothers, have done some jailtime, stay out late to help promote their careers, etc. yet still make sure to pay child support, make quality visits with their kids, etc.
Point here being that going after the music alone nets in a bunch of people who don't really need to be corrected. It's basically an extremely inefficient way to tackle the matter at hand.
You want to see some instant progress than I'd say address the people teaching these kids in school and get them straightened out on how not to treat certain kids differently based on some of the exact stereotypes that Cosby is reinforcing for them with his irresponsibly sweeping rants.
i'm about 99% sure that a) you didn't watch the show and b) you have no idea what cosby has said about rap music
see above
and that's a good thing?
sure i could talk about the plight of the inner city black youth, but considering i know absolutely nothing about that, it would seem kinda silly no?
and the fact is, you are angling my posts to suggest that I am discounting the rest of Cosby's points, which in fact i am not.
I admire Cosby trying to spark some debate and approach tough subjects relating to the black community, but i don't see why talking about his critiques on hip-hop culture in conveying his message is off limits to soul strut.
damn dude...
We've all heard what Cosby has to say about Rap music and the black community time and time again. If you don't want to discuss the points Harvey Canal is making, that's fine, I just don't see why you're being so antagonisitc towards literally everyone in this thread: first, getting mad at jlee for wanting to talk about what Cosby said about rap, then getting mad at Archaic for not seeing what Cosby said about rap. Is Bill Cosby your dad or something?
Either way, go read "Is Bill Cosby Right?" and stop being such a jack ass.
-e
When people are out of touch with anything, they insert the word "the" where it doesn't exist. The same guys who add an "s" where it doesn't belong (George Dukes[/b], Donna Summers[/b]) will do the same with "the" ("use a rubber or you might catch THE AIDS," "don't eat that or you might get THE salmonella").
Once in the seventies when I was a kid, I once heard a local newscaster do a story on a band of twentysomethings who decided to play big band music instead of contemporary rock by bands like "THE Wings" or "THE Kiss."
i dont want to discuss the points harvey is making. they don't have anything to do with cosby's interview on meet the press. go watch it and come back and tell me that
"we've all heard what cosby has to say". the interview was about a book that is co-authored by a harvard professor of psychology. its not a rant from the 'cos about these kids and their rap music. if it was, meet the press wouldn't have dedicated a full hour to discussing it.
again, i don't think dyson's book, or any of the (3?) books he's written as a response to Cosby are very relevant to this one. also, if you are citing Dyson as an authority on anything, i don't think you should be giving reading advice.
Have you read the book?
-e