Live instrument hip hop band UNappreciation post

TheeeCasualMaleTheeeCasualMale 2,564 Posts
edited June 2005 in Strut Central
There's one in every city... possibly three or four. They all sound exactly the same... whether in NYC or Portland or Kansas City. They'll never blow up on a largescale level but they continue to pop up everywhere. Tonight as I sit here pondering, I ask you all...WHAT IS THE FUCKING DEAL WITH LIVE INSTRUMENT HIP HOP GROUPS?!?!?Here's what I've gathered...They all have the same lineup: drummer, bassist, keyboard (usually Fender Rhodes), rapperThe musicians are all obviously talented, but can never come up with music more exciting or unique than a 4-chord loop with a dull bassline (always that ??berclean, undistorted jazz bass sound) and a smooooth keyboard progression.They are formed from the ashes of (or are sideprojects of still-active) jam bands.They always kick "positive" or "conscious" rhymes.They have names like Groove Assembly.They can probably never be reviewed or written about without The Roots being mentioned.People in every city, especially college kids, LOVE these groups.Can someone shed some light on what the fuck is going on here?
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  • CosmophonicCosmophonic 1,172 Posts
    No, but I can tell you I??m not a big fan of the stuff either.

    Ona related note I was pretty surprised to see Looptroop??s DJ EmBee rock an electronic drumset/pad thingy the last time I saw them. Actually I thought it added a lot to the performance, plus it was chock-full of old-school drum sounds so it??s all good.

    - J

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    It's rap that rockists (is that the word?) can appreciate because they're actually playing "music."

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    in Cali we used to call that shit "Berkeley Bop"

    Worst shit EVAR

  • PEKPEK 735 Posts

    They are formed from the ashes of (or are sideprojects of still-active) SH*T[/b] jam bands.

    People in every city, especially college kids, LOVE these groups.

    These aren't mutually exclusive...

    F*ckin' grilled cheese sandwiches and goin' on tour w/ one of these jam bands...

  • DocBeezyDocBeezy 1,918 Posts


    The musicians are all obviously talented, but can never come up with music more exciting or unique than a 4-chord loop with a dull bassline (always that ??berclean, undistorted jazz bass sound) and a smooooth keyboard progression.

    They are formed from the ashes of (or are sideprojects of still-active) jam bands.

    They always kick "positive" or "conscious" rhymes.

    They have names like Groove Assembly.

    They can probably never be reviewed or written about without The Roots being mentioned.

    People in every city, especially college kids, LOVE these groups.



    Can someone shed some light on what the fuck is going on here?

    haha that shit is soo damn funny.

    There is one out here in Grand Rapids. AND THEY SUCK!

  • meshmesh 925 Posts
    well, i will try to shed a little light on the subject, as i am kinda in one.

    it basically started from a recording session with a friend of mine. he and our other friend are mcs, and had been talking about getting me and a couple other of our producer-like friends together to make some music. ended up as saturday night sessions at my crib with one dude on the skins, another on the keyboard, and me on the sampler/ms2000. then we started switching roles; i would play drums, the drummer would scratch horn stabs or whatever, and the dude on keys would play the sampler. its pretty fun. we do covers of the "one thing" and "selfish" beats, make up our own songs, etc.

    and we had a bassist, but he would take it to jam band land all the time and i had to put my foot down on that.

    and both the mcs are concious rappers heavily influenced by the roots.

    i laughed as i read the original post cuz it really hit the nail on the head.

    i mean, i try to to think about it too hard, i just liking making music and i happen to like making it with the dudes in the "band." we never really play out, just hang and make music. but mayeb one day we will get out there and do a show so all the frat kids can do keg stands with us.

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    there was one of these "bands" playing some industry showcase (for all of 5 people) when we showed up at the club our gig was at last night...

    they took it to another level though.. they had a chick with an accoustic guitar... each song would start with her sensitvie signer songwriter vibe, she'd get to the end of the first verse... drummer does his lil boom bap and BLAM out comes mister backpacker for some rappin...

    truely truely heinous.


  • DjArcadianDjArcadian 3,632 Posts
    in Cali we used to call that shit "Berkeley Bop"

    Worst shit EVAR

    Oh shit that made me laugh! I get flashes of Blake's on Telegraph when you mentioned that.

  • hogginthefogghogginthefogg 6,098 Posts
    9th chords. Lots and lots of 9th chords.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    People in every city, especially college kids, LOVE these groups.



    Can someone shed some light on what the fuck is going on here?


    Sounds like you answered your own question before you asked it?

    See, I think being in a band can be be a ton of fun, no matter if you play fiddle in a nu-blugrass group or bad guitar in a mopey-pants emo band. And for most music fans of a rabid nature(I am looking at everyone on this board), most probably either try it or fantasize about it. So the fact that there is a proliferation of this in light of the success of hip hop bands like the Roots and in light of the overall saturation success of hip hop in general.

    And seriously, 90% of MCs plying their trade have NO stage skills AT ALL, which makes watching live Hip Hop in an arena/theatre/bar setting very very dull. So when these acts try and translate studio/basement/park jam excitement, most can't do it very well with a DJ and one hype man. It just falls flat. And the first solution these days seems to be, assemble a band to fill up the space. If they worked on their performance skills, it might not be so necesarry to fall back on a group.

    I understand hating specific groups(trust me, I understand) but I don't understand the concept of hating the CONCEPT of a certain type of group. Obviously the concept can be excecuted well by the right combo, and obviously lots of people are just pissing in the wind.

    Can we just let hip hop bands live?

  • Can we just let hip hop bands live?

    There are 1000s of different things you can do with musical instruments.
    Why should every single one of these bands sound exactly the same?

    Where's the modern soul slap bass live instrument rap group?
    Where's the Sugarhill house band style live instrument rap group?
    Where's the Iron Butterfly cover band / rap group?

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    in DC we used to call that shit "Go-Go"

    Best shit EVAR


  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts
    It's rap that rockists (is that the word?) can appreciate because they're actually playing "music."

    I am a "rockist"...I love guitars, drums, etc....but I fucking hate "live instrument" hip-hop, including the Roots....it isnt hip hop...hip hop is a DJ and a MC...simple as that.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts

    I am a "rockist"...I love guitars, drums, etc....but I fucking hate "live instrument" hip-hop, including the Roots....it isnt hip hop...hip hop is a DJ and a MC...simple as that.

    I can be as formalist as anyone in this joint, but if it was as "simple as that" this post would have already died. You can get a million different opinions on what 'hip hop' truly passes as authentic, and it's about as definitive as what makes rock 'ROCK and ROLL' and jazz 'REAL JAZZ'. It's fun, but ultimately there is no actual conclusion. It's all illusionary.

  • merlemerle 39 Posts
    I understand hating specific groups(trust me, I understand) but I don't understand the concept of hating the CONCEPT of a certain type of group. Obviously the concept can be excecuted well by the right combo, and obviously lots of people are just pissing in the wind.


    maybe the concept can be executed well,
    but who has done it?

    the only shit like that
    i can ever remember enjoying
    was LL on Unplugged.

  • The_Hook_UpThe_Hook_Up 8,182 Posts

    I am a "rockist"...I love guitars, drums, etc....but I fucking hate "live instrument" hip-hop, including the Roots....it isnt hip hop...hip hop is a DJ and a MC...simple as that.

    I can be as formalist as anyone in this joint, but if it was as "simple as that" this post would have already died. You can get a million different opinions on what 'hip hop' truly passes as authentic, and it's about as definitive as what makes rock 'ROCK and ROLL' and jazz 'REAL JAZZ'. It's fun, but ultimately there is no actual conclusion. It's all illusionary.

    true...but isnt one of the main reasons that hip hop was so revolutionary as a music was its design and execution? the DJ/MC team is its blueprint(I know the early sugarhill records stuff was live however)...a symphony can play heavy metal songs, but it doesnt make it heavy metal. I get the same feeling from live band hip hop.

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    i happen to like making it with the dudes in the "band."

    Ay-Yo?

  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    man, ever since i heard a rza track with no beat and just piano, (might have been of the first bobby digital) i threw out my definition of hip hop. i would just say hip hop is soul, nothing less, nothing more. my argument would be you can get any track from any genre and have someone rap over it, and all of a sudden its changed its context into a rap song. and if u reverse engineer a classic rap track, by withdrawing the vocals, and say some drum machines, you are back to a jazz song. so for me personally i have to say that the two turn tables and a microphone thing doesn't apply...its defnitely a segment, but its not all encompassing.

    um, maybe wrong post i am in.

  • maybe the concept can be executed well,
    but who has done it?


  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    id love to watch a show with edan, mos def and count bass d, playing as a group and switching instruments/vocals as they kicked it. put a drum machine on drums.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Can we just let hip hop bands live?

    There are 1000s of different things you can do with musical instruments.
    Why should every single one of these bands sound exactly the same?

    Where's the modern soul slap bass live instrument rap group?
    Where's the Sugarhill house band style live instrument rap group?
    Where's the Iron Butterfly cover band / rap group?

    I like the concept and the Roots. But I see your point. You would think that by now some one would have taken this to the next level, including the Roots.

    I suppose the interesting stuff is jazz bands, or rock bands or soul bands adding some hip hop elements. That is happening all the time. Not many of them get love from their fans or hip hop fans.

    In every town there is a jam band that sounds just like the jam band in the next town.

    In every town there is a heavy metal band that sounds just like the heavy metal band in the next town.

    And on and on.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    I like the concept and the Roots. But I see your point. You would think that by now some one would have taken this to the next level, including the Roots.


    I think that if someone was even threatening to take it to any 'next level' in the concept of live instrument hip hop, there are few folks around here who would give that much of anything but ridicule and/or contempt.

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey M***,



    The demo I was referring to in the "Awkward Situation" post was from one of those type groups. It was asscrack booty!!!! I find these groups corny. They're trying too hard to be "something" (whatever the fuck that is), and it comes off contrived. Typical skateboard rap at its worst!!!



    Peace,



    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts


    I like the concept and the Roots. But I see your point. You would think that by now some one would have taken this to the next level, including the Roots.


    I think that if someone was even threatening to take it to any 'next level' in the concept of live instrument hip hop, there are few folks around here who would give that much of anything but ridicule and/or contempt.

    ...and I would not disappoint you, C***s.

    Seriously, though, what I find annoying about a lot of these groups is their presumption; why do a bunch of guys who clearly haven't even listened to very much rap music suddenly think that they're qualified to start playing it in public?

    Conversely, I think hip-hop acts that incorporate musicians into their live shows can be a lot more entertaining than just having a dude with a mic + crew stalking the stage. Outkast started to do this circa Aquemini, and all of their shows that I saw during that era were a lot of fun.

    So, to summarize:

    Dudes that happen to be in a band deciding to mess with rap = not a good look

    Rap acts finding a role for instruments in their live shows = a potentially good look

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    id love to watch a show with edan, mos def and count bass d, playing as a group and switching instruments/vocals as they kicked it. put a drum machine on drums.

    Dude, that sounds like it would be painful to witness.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts


    I like the concept and the Roots. But I see your point. You would think that by now some one would have taken this to the next level, including the Roots.


    I think that if someone was even threatening to take it to any 'next level' in the concept of live instrument hip hop, there are few folks around here who would give that much of anything but ridicule and/or contempt.

    ...and I would not disappoint you, C***s.

    Seriously, though, what I find annoying about a lot of these groups is their presumption; why do a bunch of guys who clearly haven't even listened to very much rap music suddenly think that they're qualified to start playing it in public?

    Conversely, I think hip-hop acts that incorporate musicians into their live shows can be a lot more entertaining than just having a dude with a mic + crew stalking the stage. Outkast started to do this circa Aquemini, and all of their shows that I saw during that era were a lot of fun.

    So, to summarize:

    Dudes that happen to be in a band deciding to mess with rap = not a good look

    Rap acts finding a role for instruments in their live shows = a potentially good look

    And that is a summary I can get with....

    I have said it many times before, I am glad that I was in bands waaaaayyy before the advent of the internet. I don't think I could have adjusted well to worl-wide criticism of even the concept of what I was doing, sometimes before you even have a chance to work something out. I guess that's why I am pretty lenient about some of these types of groups, at least in the case of maintaining their right to exist. I can only really say I have seen the Roots live, and they pretty much straddle your summary, Faux. And thanks for not dissapointing me.

  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    id love to watch a show with edan, mos def and count bass d, playing as a group and switching instruments/vocals as they kicked it. put a drum machine on drums.

    dude, that sounds like it would be painful to witness.

    sado musicism

  • meshmesh 925 Posts

    Dudes that happen to be in a band deciding to mess with rap = not a good look

    Rap acts finding a role for instruments in their live shows = a potentially good look

    i can agree with as well. with the little group i am in, we all had a love of hip hop before we started doing this thing together. we were making beats, and they were rhyming to them, etc. we ultimately fell into just playing it live.


  • KARLITOKARLITO 991 Posts
    the only shit like that
    i can ever remember enjoying
    was LL on Unplugged.
    How about the Roots backing up Jay-Z? That shit was hot IMO.

  • mrpekmrpek 627 Posts
    Damn Hippie's
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