Awkward Situation: Some Cat’s Wack Demo(s)???
Big_Stacks
"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Hey,
Have any of you guys been in that awkward situation where you had to respond to some cat's wack demo? Maybe they gave you a copy, you peeped it, and dismissed it as booty. Usually, the beats are garbage and the kids can't flow (e.g., lack breath control, pronunciation, bad mic training, etc.). This happened last night, actually. Then, some time in the future you see them and they ask what you thought. How do you respond to this? I try to be complimentary and maybe I'll point out some areas where they can improve. This is especially difficult when dude is ya boy and they really want you to level with them. Personally, most demos I'm played around MilwauKKKee don't move me, so I deal with this on the regular.
Another question is how do you respond to wack MCs that want you to make beats for them? Back in the day, I used to give 'em slut loops and breaks that I didn't plan on using (e.g,. "There it is", "The Breakdown", and shit like that). Do you horde your best stuff for the best MCs? So, there are the issues, please add on if you feel like it.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Have any of you guys been in that awkward situation where you had to respond to some cat's wack demo? Maybe they gave you a copy, you peeped it, and dismissed it as booty. Usually, the beats are garbage and the kids can't flow (e.g., lack breath control, pronunciation, bad mic training, etc.). This happened last night, actually. Then, some time in the future you see them and they ask what you thought. How do you respond to this? I try to be complimentary and maybe I'll point out some areas where they can improve. This is especially difficult when dude is ya boy and they really want you to level with them. Personally, most demos I'm played around MilwauKKKee don't move me, so I deal with this on the regular.
Another question is how do you respond to wack MCs that want you to make beats for them? Back in the day, I used to give 'em slut loops and breaks that I didn't plan on using (e.g,. "There it is", "The Breakdown", and shit like that). Do you horde your best stuff for the best MCs? So, there are the issues, please add on if you feel like it.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Comments
I don't make beats so i can't speak on the other topic.
You just gotta be honest. It sucks and there is no good way around it. Just tell them what you didn't like about it, try to be gentle but clear, and maybe highlight one thing you liked or you think has potential. You can say "It's just not my style," but that isn't going to help them. When you've gotten in the habit of giving critical feedback, it gets easier every time. If they have any sense they will respect you more for being straight up instead of the "shrug and duck" routine. It's not personal. I have to do this a lot as a dj ("can you remix this/play this in the club/put this on a mixtape") and if someone thinks I'm a dick for not liking their music, oh well.
Peace,
Young Ayres from the Rotten Apple
In any event, honesty is the best policy. Telling somebody that you love their shit when you really don't isn't gonna help them in the long run. If they really believe in themselves (and if they really have the goods) your critique isn't gonna stop them anyway.
You guys are all definitely speaking the truth. True enough, I'm critical of hip-hop and all, but I just feel awkward tellin' cats their stuff is butt. I think things like "who am I to say their wack", or "I don't want to seem superior by dissin' their demo". The odd thing is that they tell you to play your stuff first, and they really vibe to it. Then, they play their stuff and you're thinking "ohhhhhhh shit, damn that's wack". I try not to show that reaction on my face, but I try instead to see some good in it. That's my approach to music in general. I try to see the value of it first, then I react. I just don't want to dog cats out. I try to give them a fair shake. The weird thing is, I didn't see who would get into that demo I heard last night. Every now and then, the music I hear may not be "my preference", but I can see where another crowd (say, crunk cats) might feel it. Kinda like Two Short; I don't own any of his music, but I can tell where certain dudes would feel him. Most of the times with these local, yocal demos, I can't tell who's gonna dig 'em. I'm left without words it's so garbage.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Find the one thing you can say that's nice; great song title or I think it's cool that your rapping about your grandma, everybody loves grandmas. Then tell them to stick to it; keep working, your next mix will be even better.
My official rule on critics is + - +. Great kicks+, this rhyme sucks-, phatoliciousio is a cool word+.
Well there's your answer.... when he asks, just do a deep shrug, roll your eyes and let out a loonnnggg sigh. Then change the subject real quickly!
I don't like telling people I don't know their stuff is crap. Who am I to say what is good anyway? I only like what I like and I'm consistently wrong about what the public is goin to feel anyway.
Just a thought, this kid might have been just as impressed with his own stuff as you are with yours. Its very hard for anybody to ever hear their own work objectively. If a dude is young, I think the best idea to not to totally diss em. They still growing and when people are growing they need encouragement. Its Pavlovian shit. Positive feedback loop.
I'm not your parent or some sh!t--I don't owe you honesty, and I don't give a f**k if you develop as an artist. I'm just trying to avoid entanglements.
"This sh!t is FLAMEZ, dude! This sh!t is so crazy I am confident that it can never be topped and that I never need to hear any more of your sh!t ever again!"
As a journalist, I do get my share of crap. I either don't do a review, or if I do a review, try to offer what I would like to hear, based on elements that I do like. If I like the lyrics, but can't stand the flow, I try to say that perhaps more should be done in order to "make the voice capture the power and strength of the lyrics".
Yet that's the inner battle, do you bash the next person for making something you think is crap, or do you make music that others will bash and think is crap?
But Im always honest with people I respect and know well personally. Or people who showed that they can handle critics, these are extremely rare tho! Especially on the internet.
To my producer cats, how do you handle the "wack MC" problem? Do you just chalk it up as business and make that beat for their papes, knowing they're wack? If they're wack, do you withhold your hottest beats? How do you guys approach this? I used to hold back the "goodies" for my prime MCs. It's hard to give your hottest fire to the wack mic checka. Holla!!!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
then they'll ask "what do we need to do to fix it"...then that gives you the oppportunity to tell them what you dont like about it
Lol. Also real effective with "your doin your thing", "yall are on some other shit (real good with the backpack dudes)" or any other dumb cliche you can think of.
however, if i was going to give someone a beat (or sell). i would not hesitate to do my absolute best and give them a really dope beat, no matter how wack the mc was... i mean if my name is gonna be there, its not gonna do me any good if its a wack beat!
man, i totally hold em out. i aint really getting paid for beats enough thats making a difference, so i like to pair my good shit with people i really feel. i dont even like to think about it like that though. i like to think that when i get a beat to where i even want anybody in the public to hear it, then i damn well want somebody sweet on the mic to be complementing it, or vice versa.
so the cats that ask me for beats, i just tell em i dont have enough right now, and maybe we can work something out later, but probably not for while. i am real vague about it. i guess thats a shitty quality, but fuck it, it gets me by.
Hey Jake (and others),
I always wondered how producers in the game (for real) felt about wack MCs on their tracks. I guess that's why Preemo didn't mind blessin' Neneh Cherry. So, it's strictly business then? I guess I'm too far from the "makin' crazy paper" producing process to understand it fully. It doesn't bother you to hear someone butcher one of your hot joints? Does the money ease the pain of it? At this (lower) level, it gets to me. Like Mesh, I prefer to hear someone represent well MC-wise on the track. I guess that changes with the paper.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I went to a week long guitar camp back in 1979. Rick Ruskin (who has a break beat) was one of the teachers I hung out with. His biggest claim to fame was being the touring guitarist for Olivia Newton John. He would lash out at anyone who said anything remotely negative about ONJ. It was respect or shut up.
So, I would suggest; the wacker the mc, the more you charge for your beat. You might start to really love some of them. Besides, with your beat underneath how wack could they be?
Word up... that's the bottom line, if you can't handle the slings and arrows then you need to be doing something else. I don't care how dope your shit is, a lot of people are not gonna be feelin' it! Just do a poll on Soulstrut alone and see how many people dislike Jay-Z, Eminem, Mike Jones, Kanye West, Madlib etc. etc. Most of these dudes struggled for a long time and dealt with numerous rejections along the way- it's all a part of the game. As I said before, if an artist or producer believes in what they're doing and they really have something that can be successful on some level, one thumbs down isn't gonna crush them and stop what they're trying to achieve.
So go ahead and Simon Cowell their ass if you must (I'd say be gentle about it, but to each his own). If you give a damn at all about the person, though, lying just isn't gonna do them any good.
I usually give the "compliment then critique" response to cats I don't really know. My main boys get the "Straight, No Chaser" style of commentary. It really depends on who it is. It's just awkward though, and I've dealt with this issue for years. I just wish I heard more demos that were good, then it would be a non-issue. I'm amazed at how amateurish a lot of the stuff sounds. I think MCs have really forgotten the art of (lyrical) delivery. Dudes write raps they can't even say. They seem to try to rhyme like so-and-so, but they are not glib enough to spit it. They need to either work on their delivery, or either simply the rhyme structure to fit more with their (lack of) lyrical skills.
Ohhhhhh, don't even talk about beats!!! Usually, it's some Cascio SK-5 like, cartoony bullshit that sounds like circus music. The beats don't hit, and it's poorly arranged. It usually features bad keyboard playing and drum programming. The music sounds sparse and incomplete. You can tell a lot of times that these guys have no background whatsoever in music or even a musical ear. A lot of times it's laughable. I keep a straight face and try to help them in some way through comments.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
hahaha....good one
At this point it doesn't bother me to work with somebody less than stellar on the mic. Its like how a lot of times people pick beats from me that I don't like anymore. Its just part of it I guess. I just try to be a professional and do my job.
SARCASM REPLIED WITH SARCASM?
one thing that will always save your ass is technical critiques... 9 times out of ten i hear a shitty demo and i tell the dudes "well you guys really need to get your mastering locked down.. what kind of limiter are you using? did you run this mix through a mulitband compressor? you should really roll off these freqs blah blah blah..." if the kids are new jacks they often get really into the tech talk and are super appreciative of the info your giving them (all the while completely distractign them from the fact you ARENT actually talking about the stuff on the demo anymore)... if they're just a bunch of stoner college kids tryin to make beats and shit they tend to glaze over the second the tech talk comes out, providing a quick escape route.
worse is having a label though.. people will send you stuff... stuff that has NOTHING to do with your label.. they will harass you, they will keep following up... these can be harder situations to squeeze outta, but typically i try and focus on something simple. I do 12 inches.. if somebody sends me a song thats only 3 minutes long im just gonna tell em the track is too short.. simple... nobodies feelings are hurt done deal... and hopefully they dont come back with the 8 minute remix.