how worried should i be about this?
tripledouble
7,636 Posts
cause i cant think of anything more startling right now. "At this rate, by 2012 the forests in Sumatra, Borneo and Sulawesi will be gone, only the forests in Papua will be left and if cutting of trees continues, no forest will be left by 2022."http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070610/sc_nm/deforestation_dci realized only a couple years back how great it feels to be in a forest. everything feels right, actually. theres a pervasive calm and a feeling that nature will handle all problems and keep everything in balance. thats just me on a hike...my hair stands on end when i think of all the communities and species that are 100% reliant on the worlds forests. hippie shit? maybe.so, soulstrut...offer me some words of solace, or a different viewpoint that will ease my mind. cause reading about this shit makes my heart heavy and my mind murderous.
Comments
is there anyone i can assassinate to make everything right?
anyone heard of "cradle to cradle"?
Yeah.
Um, nothing to add.
The solution to a lot of our problems may lie at the bottom of the oceans, it's early days but there's more energy down there than all the oil that's ever been drilled. Maybe stuff that likes to eat plastic as well.
http://www.coopamerica.org/cabn/newsletter/membernews/
http://www.coopamerica.org/cabn/newsletter/membernews/membernewsitem.cfm?NewsID=1189
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070609/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/buying_argentina
this has been on my mind for about 5 years...doing something like this out here. getting some friends together and buying land just ahead of sprawl in order to preserve it. make a landtrust. no development besides a well and one cabin.
the whole deforestation thing is mind blowing. powerful powerful forces that are impossible to reign in: people invest in a company, the company has to increase profits, its global reach is hard to police, forest get chewed up. untoppable babylon.
I believe there is a law here in Canada (We got nuff trees!) where any logging company that cuts down a tree, must plant 3. It's not an answer, but I'm hoping it's a start.
Yeah as big as China is they may end up screwing themselves. They are based mainly on a coal economy and amenities like fresh drinking water are not a guarantee. A childhood friend of mine is down there. I talked with him for the first time in 8 months and he didn't really have any optimism.
There are positive stories, but elsewhere. Japan is 70% forest because they took very early action against deforestation. California is A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Trees-Story-Passion-Daring/dp/1400064899/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6571604-4176631?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181536121&sr=8-1">pretty wild too.
It's just depressing to get take-out food anywhere. LA is crazy plastic heavy. Hope they ban this shit like SF did (with bags).
Stores double-bag gallon water bottles, even though they have handles built into them. It's called service.
so to be postive, trees will and do return. but if you take a walk through the woods in the northeasten U.S., you don't see healthy diverse forests with giant elms and sycamores and hemlocks and ferns as often as you see endless maples, spindly oaks, and invasive vines. i can't imagine the scope of extinction that takes place when you cut down a rainforest.
should you be worried? we live on a planet. as far as we know it's the only one in the universe that supports life.
Hahah. You can recycle that shit by the way... but hardly anyone does.
It freaks me out to go to my in-laws' place in Nebraska. They don't even recycle glass or cans.
I've evolved to eat plastic bags, so it's cool.
However, I am really pulling for Lula to crack down on illegal logging in Brazil.
It is illusional to think that any cut down natural forests could be replaced. Tropical rain forests can not be recreated by any means, once that shit is gone, it's gone. In the forest region of Guinea, huge, gigantic trees that are hundreds of years old are being sold by the village elders to be cut down at the cost of 2-3 US Dollars a pop. For the most part, these are not international contractors but privately operating locals with a chain saw.
People are idiots and the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Nothing new about it. Only thing surprising is that it's taking such a long time.
what sportcasual said is important...you can replant trees (across the states you can see tree farms everywhere) but that doesnt mean its a functional forest with diversity of life. those tree farms are eerie as shit. perfectly planted rows of trees, no underbrush,animals,life. i wouldnt be surprised if they needed lots of chemical fertilizers and additives to maintain.
all these third world forests...what can you do? what could lula possibly do? he would have to completely shut down the trans-amazonian highway, but that aint gonna happen.
this frustration makes me sympathetic to earth first
but i think they are considered a "terrorist" group now.
http://www.natureworksllc.com/
http://www.ecoproducts.com/
http://www.biobagusa.com/
Recylcing is not necessarily a cure-all. As stated in the Cradle to Cradle book, recycling is not the same as re-using. We can shred a billion plastic soda bottles and make astroturf, insulation, and whatever, but eventually we will have enough of that shit, and the petroleum-based polymers will still be in our environment, in close proximity to our children, and slowly degrading, giving off tiny amounts of noxious shit. And all the while we will still need to make new plastic bottles out of new petroleum because you can't make a new soda bottle out of old ones. Same goes for aluminum cans. Glass bottles however, can be 100% re-used, so the Victorians were way ahead of us in that respect. When you have the choice between beer in a can and beer in a bottle, the bottle is the better choice. Unless it's Coors
We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the fucking planet?
I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of fucking Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.
Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?
The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!
We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.
You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.
So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.
Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.
i know i know.
this is why i turned to soulstrut for solace
As far as what Carlin said, whatever, it's not conceptually new to people who want to save this and that, it's just that some people still think you have to act. Call it selfish or self-indulgent, but everyone with half a brain needs a reason to get up in the morning. Yes, the planet will be fine - meaning the round thing that orbits the sun, but since in 100 years most species will be in zoos rather than in the wild, I think that puts a responsibility on us to survive, if not for our own fucked up selves, for the little fluffy bunnies and stuff.
I know it's not cool to act like you give a shit these days but I'm old enough to be over being cool. Soulstrut Sneakernazis don't scare me.
save trees, feed the poor. click a button. pretty simple.
www.therainforestsite.com
"In just a few seconds each day, visitors can click on the green "Preserve Endangered Land" button on the home page and, at no cost to them, help preserve rainforest land worldwide. Preservation of habitat is paid for by The Rainforest Site?????s sponsors and accomplished by The Nature Conservancy, The Rainforest Conservation Fund, The World Parks Endowment, and The Friends of Calakmul. These organizations work to preserve rainforest land in Ecuador, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay and other locations worldwide.
100% of sponsor advertising fees goes to our charitable partners.
Together, your free daily click and your purchasing power through The Rainforest Site store create a powerful, positive force for saving rainforest habitat.
How does the site work?
When you click on the green "Preserve Endangered Land" button, your click is counted by our servers and you move to the Thank You page, where you will see small ads for our site sponsors. There is no charge to you; preserved square feet of land are fully paid for by these sponsors.
100% of sponsor advertising fees goes to our charitable partners.
Every click on the green "Preserve Endangered Land" button results in funding raised for The Nature Conservancy, The Rainforest Conservation Fund, World Land Trust-US, and The Friends of Calakmul. The more people who click, the more critical rainforest habitat we can protect.
Who pays for protecting rainforests?
Site sponsors purchase small ads on the Thank You page for a certain amount of time. The Rainforest Site then tabulates the number of people who click during that time frame and bill the sponsor for the appropriate amount. The Rainforest Site divides the monies between The Nature Conservancy, The Rainforest Conservation Fund, World Land Trust-US, and The Friends of Calakmul, and all of these organizations work to preserve habitat.
100% of sponsor advertising fees goes to our charitable partners.
How do you calculate the amount of rainforest protected by visitors' clicks?
We count the number of clicks each day. The amount paid for those clicks is based on the type and structure of advertising agreement the site sponsors have with The Rainforest Site.
The two keys to the success of The Rainforest Site are site sponsors and visitors like you. The more sponsors the site has, the more funding toward habitat protection is given with each click. The more visitors who click each day, the more advertising fees we can collect and the more habitat protection we can fund together!
How often can I click on the "Preserve Endangered Land" button? Can I just keep clicking and save thousands of square feet of rainforest at once?
You can click once a day, every day of the year on The Rainforest Site. Our agreement with our sponsors allows us to count one click, per person, per calendar day. A monitoring system is set up to check this. While you could click on the button ten or a hundred or a thousand times, we will only count one click from you. In the meantime, our system could be slowed down, possibly overloaded, preventing other visitors' clicks from generating funding. Please note that we count clicks received through company firewalls, proxy servers, etc., to the best of our ability. We count every click as fairly and accurately as possible.
How much rainforest habitat has been saved? Where is this land located?
Please see our Results ??? How You're Helping page for a detailed breakdown of funding generated. Funds are split between the beneficiaries. Relief efforts span Ecuador, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay and other locations worldwide."
It certainly feels like that on most days, but not so much that I feel like giving up (not that you are suggesting that). I try to do right day-to-day cause your own backyard is the best place to start...but even that feels totally futile when I watch people who are totally oblivious to grocery stores using one plastic bag for three measly items or bagging a jug of water - nevermind bringing their own bags. I watch in disbelief as women at work pull five paper towel sheets to dry their hands when one will do or folks who use excessive amounts of paper when they can print on both sides or people who sit around in idling cars or use pesticides on their lawns...so on and so on. The only things the general public care about are convenience and how much it costs...the way things are set up, it's not always convenient to act/live in a non-wasteful and damaging way - there is very little incentive to break bad habits. It seems like the only way to change people's behaviour and hopefully, eventually, their attitudes, is to make them pay for it.
Semi-related: did anyone else see that Equador is trying to get compensaton from the international community for not drilling oilfields in ecologically sensitive areas?