I wouldn't attempt, or even really understand how to comment on the state of other countries politics or social issues.
I'm amazed at the number of people who are comfortable doing that, not particularly on this issue, but on many issues.
and yet
You don't JUST only not have guns down under, but you also don't have the drug problem, poverty problem, gang problem and all the history that would allow these things to exist..
Until the esteemed Doctor's post I had no idea that large parts of Australia were gun free and that crime was scarce.
I can't name a politician, a law or a political issue in Australia that I would attempt to speak on, as I have no knowledge and less interest.
If you think that somehow by taking a fellow Aussie at his word, and repeating his attitude in my post, that I've contradicted myself. So be it.
Instead of "repeating his attitude" maybe you mean "making simplistic assumptions"?
As nations, we should help and respect other countries, but I am growing tired of citizens of other nations telling us how to run things in the U.S. You do it your way, we'll do it ours. If we're "wrong," we'll figure it out in the end. Different countries, different mores, different customs and different populations can't run their countries the same, thangs just don't work the same way around the world. Peace T.N.
I wouldn't attempt, or even really understand how to comment (properly fix)[/b] the state of other countries politics or social issues. Word[/b]
I'm amazed at the number of people who are comfortable doing that, not particularly on this issue, but on many issues.
Guns are just a small part of what goes on in a place like Philly and other U.S. cities.
You don't JUST only not have guns down under, but you also don't have the drug problem, poverty problem, gang problem and all the history that would allow these things to exist.. Not to the extent that the US, but it's there. [/b]
Telling us how safe 4 million people in Australia are because they don't have guns doesn't, and can't, relate in any way to life in the U.S.---> Double True[/b]
I could tell you about the town I live in, where there hasn't been a murder in 10 years, and it would mean about as much as gun control in Australia.
Yes I realise that guns are only a small part of what goes on, and yes I realise that we are a young country and that our particular historical path has allowed us to some extent avoid many of the social problems the U.S and other parts of the world experience. That is not to say Australia doesn???t have its problems mind you.
I don???t think anyone is claiming to fully understand the situation, or tell anyone how to fix it. Just making observations about the system we have here in the hope that the lessons we have learned can be of use to others. I don???t think it is at all inappropriate to comment on the social/political issues of another nation as long as you are open minded to the responses, which I believe most of the people on this board are.
What I will add is that the political and social situation in the U.S gets very extensive worldwide coverage, so while we may not be living in the U.S we certainly have at least some knowledge as to what is going on. Not to mention that what affects the U.S affects large parts of the rest of the world in a pretty direct way, so I think it is in the interest of people in countries like Australia ??? not to mention the rest of the world ??? to pay attention to what is going on and to engage in discussion about it.
Hopefully this terrible event will help spark real conversation and examination about our country's culture of violence. At the very least we can get some real talk out there. It's a terrible situation.
Shit, look at what's happening in Philly right now. It's INSANE. Us, as Americans, need to face the deep dark truthful mirror, and fast.
What's happening in Philly right now?
Record homicide rates. People getting killed almost every day. Gun violence is out of control. An article about it in the NY Times talks about it, but it's even deeper than you think. Kids in the streets are so fucking wild right now.
And lest we forget that someone got shot at a PEACE RALLY a few weeks ago.
shit is bananas.someone got killed in the park near my house this weekend. yesterday, some dude was running from the cops, carjacking shit, and got shot down a block from my parents house. and this is in a relatively "nice" section. guns everywhere.record pace murders is not a good thing
DrB, With all due respect I think the snag is that....
" Just making observations about the system we have here in the hope that the lessons we have learned can be of use to others[/b] .
What is the lesson?
Did you guys have an incredible gun/crime problem and fix it??
We are past the point where your lesson can really mean anything to us other than what we "shoulda" done 100 years ago or so.
And it comes across kinda snooty.
And I mean that in the nicest way possible(ny accent)
Haha yeah i can see that. I didn't really phrase it right. I meant it more in a broader sense; in that when you are trying to solve some sort of problem it is best to cast your net of information gathering as widely as possible. To look to as many examples as you can, even if they are not directly comparable - there still may be bits that are relevant or that can be applied.
What the U.S can take out of the Australian example is unclear, but i do think it useful to take a look at as a (reasonably successful) example of gun control.
The thing to keep in mind is this: murders, suicides, accidental deaths...these things happen on college campuses all the time.
It does? It's interesting to read about this from another perspective since I don't live in America. I've only got information (so far) about this horrible event from the swedish media, where I live. I gotta say with a fair amount of confidence that this type of thing never have happened over here and that my first thought on why this sort of thing has happened repeatetly in America is because of the gun laws. 200 millions guns in circulation is crazy! It's almost unbelievable. Why whould 200 million people be interested in owning a gun?
one of my most fun daze in amsterdam turned into one of my worse when i got back to my hotel & caught the breaking news 24 hours of stress untill i got home i live in a town that is very connected to vt, have a child who is a freshman at the other big va school most of her high school class are freshman at tech friends, neighbors everyone is shook
Just a comment on the comparison between gun violence and different countries
It's not "that easy" (from a legal basis) to obtain a hand gun in London, specially if you are a "youth".. but if you follow our local news, you'll know we've had escalating violence and shocking murders going on here, by teenagers
violence is violence, no matter how it goes down.. the virginia tech murders are brutal and shocking, particularly in the context of where, why and how they went down - but I think the nature of that is also to do with previous events of a similar nature (eg columbine).. I am just as shocked by 16 year olds breaking and entering each others houses to settle "beef" and murdering some one in their bed in cold blood..
the media reporting on all of this is always appalling and the familiar debates always rise to the top (ie whose to blame? society? hip hop? marilyn manson? gun control laws?) and the practical reality, as with the ultimately failing "war on terror", is that if individuals are "unhinged", or motivated enough, any degree of inhuman/inhumane behaviour is possible, and you can't ever hope to prevent these type of events..
I would say though, that any government that carries out such appalling violence with one hand, and condemns violence with the other, can't really be seen to be setting a good example in all of this.
one of my most fun daze in amsterdam turned into one of my worse when i got back to my hotel & caught the breaking news 24 hours of stress untill i got home i live in a town that is very connected to vt, have a child who is a freshman at the other big va school most of her high school class are freshman at tech friends, neighbors everyone is shook
i fear for when the victims names are released
Sorry i didnt make it to ARC, next time.
My thoughts are with you and your family.
aLAN.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
The thing to keep in mind is this: murders, suicides, accidental deaths...these things happen on college campuses all the time.
It does? It's interesting to read about this from another perspective since I don't live in America. I've only got information (so far) about this horrible event from the swedish media, where I live. I gotta say with a fair amount of confidence that this type of thing never have happened over here and that my first thought on why this sort of thing has happened repeatetly in America is because of the gun laws. 200 millions guns in circulation is crazy! It's almost unbelievable. Why whould 200 million people be interested in owning a gun?
This is kind of key to most of the observations most of the non-Americans are making on the matter, I'd say. The Virginia Tech murders have been the front page lead on just about every UK paper of any note for the last two days, and will doubtless continue to be a major story here for some time yet.
As a non-American living in an industrialised Western country, I'm exposed to aspects of American culture on the daily, both voluntarily and otherwise. It continues to have a significant effect on my life and the way I live it, as it's done since birth, and it's for this reason that I don't feel uncomfortable about commenting on things like this - within reasonable and, I hope, respectful limits, of course. After all, you don't need to be from the North Pole to know it's cold.
The whole issue of gun ownership seems to me to be uniquely American in a way that differs from the more widely-accepted US "imports" (for want of a better term) that non-Americans are familiar with, such as TV, movies, music, etc. Personal ownership of firearms amongst everyday citizens is about the only significant aspect of US culture that hasn't travelled abroad. I still occasionally meet Americans who are a little bewildered by the fact that the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Brits (and even a few who aren't so law-abiding) neither own, nor would want to own, a gun. Nevertheless, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that, if guns were as widely and comparatively easily available over here as they are in the US, we'd be looking at a similar situation. As it stands, though, it does very much seem as if the tighter regulations on gun ownership in the UK are largely doing the job they're intended to do. For example, petty criminals, such as house-breakers, won't carry guns because they know they're not likely to find themselves facing one if they're caught in the act, and because they risk a far higher prison sentence if they're found in possession of an illegal firearm. For me, the wider availability of guns only serves to exacerbate social problems such as drug use, poverty and gang-related violence, wherever they exist. They're not the sole cause of those problems, by any means, but they certainly don't help any.
"Saturday night just ain't that special Yeah, I got the constitution on the run 'Cause even though we've got the right To defend our home, to defend our life Got to understand to get it in hand about the guns"
This is kind of key to most of the observations most of the non-Americans are making on the matter, I'd say. The Virginia Tech murders have been the front page lead on just about every UK paper of any note for the last two days, and will doubtless continue to be a major story here for some time yet.
As a non-American living in an industrialised Western country, I'm exposed to aspects of American culture on the daily, both voluntarily and otherwise. It continues to have a significant effect on my life and the way I live it, as it's done since birth, and it's for this reason that I don't feel uncomfortable about commenting on things like this - within reasonable and, I hope, respectful limits, of course. After all, you don't need to be from the North Pole to know it's cold.
The whole issue of gun ownership seems to me to be uniquely American in a way that differs from the more widely-accepted US "imports" (for want of a better term) that non-Americans are familiar with, such as TV, movies, music, etc. Personal ownership of firearms amongst everyday citizens is about the only significant aspect of US culture that hasn't travelled abroad. I still occasionally meet Americans who are a little bewildered by the fact that the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Brits (and even a few who aren't so law-abiding) neither own, nor would want to own, a gun. Nevertheless, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that, if guns were as widely and comparatively easily available over here as they are in the US, we'd be looking at a similar situation. As it stands, though, it does very much seem as if the tighter regulations on gun ownership in the UK are largely doing the job they're intended to do. For example, petty criminals, such as house-breakers, won't carry guns because they know they're not likely to find themselves facing one if they're caught in the act, and because they risk a far higher prison sentence if they're found in possession of an illegal firearm. For me, the wider availability of guns only serves to exacerbate social problems such as drug use, poverty and gang-related violence, wherever they exist. They're not the sole cause of those problems, by any means, but they certainly don't help any.
"Saturday night just ain't that special Yeah, I got the constitution on the run 'Cause even though we've got the right To defend our home, to defend our life Got to understand to get it in hand about the guns"
for the sad state of gun "control" in america common sense vs lunatic fringe who won't budge or compromise an inch they hold the political powers by the nut sack & no ammount of blood in the streets will change their mind
re: doc mccoy - I feel you, in the sense that it could and would get worse over here if we allowed wider access to guns
main thing right now for street crimes is knives.. accessible, scary, guaranteed to hurt and leave people physically and mentally scared.. the bigger and scarier the better. scares the shit out of me, that's for sure. "ban the blade" ain't working with the youth, if the knife crime I walked past on saturday says anything..
for the sad state of gun "control" in america common sense vs lunatic fringe who won't budge or compromise an inch they hold the political powers by the nut sack & no ammount of blood in the streets will change their mind
one thing i can't understand is why it is that important to have the right to own a gun unless you're a professional hunter. i know it's in the constitution but is that right relative today? i would think no. is it better to have metal detectors in the schools instead of just making it harder for a person to buy a gun?
tons o' guns everybody's getting strapped tons o' guns got to watch the way you act tons o' guns real easy to get tons o' guns bringing nothing but death tons o' guns are in the streets nowadays it's big money and you know crime pays check your nearest overpopulated ghetto they greet you with a pistol not trying to say hello mad kids packed 'cos the neighborhood's like that want some shit that's fat catch a victim do a stick kids pulling triggers, n*ggas killing n*ggas five-o they sit and wait and tally death-toll figures it's crazy there ain't no time to really chill jealous motherfuckers always want to act ill 22's 25's 44's 45's mack elevens ak's taking mad lives what the fuck you gonna do in a situation it's like you need to have steel just to feel relaxation tons o' guns
"But the thing they know best is where the gun is kept"
tons o' guns you got we got they got the state of affairs yo it's like mad chaos i know a kid who just passed the other day they shot him sixteen times so there he lay you can pray for this shit to like cease but until then a n*gga's gonna pack a piece[/b] and yo the devil's got assasination squads want to kill n*ggas 'cos they're scared of gods they got camps where they train they learn to take aim at a n*gga like a piece of game and i'm not seeing that, them days are gone 'cos now we got chrome to put them where they belong so me a rude boy from a inna Brooklyn fuck the bullshit pain and suffering i'm coming off with a foolproof plan as if each every lyric was worth a hundred grand i stand in the face of hatred letting off mad shots making devils run naked tons o' guns
"But the thing they know best is where the gun is kept"
tons o' guns everybody's getting strapped tons o' guns got to watch the way you act tons o' guns real easy to get tons o' guns bringing nothing but death tons o' guns but i don't glorify 'cos more guns will come and much more will die why, yo i don't know black some motherfuckers just be living like that they like to feel the chrome in their hands the shit makes them feel like little big man twelve years old catching wreck 'cos there ain't no supervision putting kids in check people get wounded, others they perish and what about the mother and the child she cherish the city is wild up steps the wild child tension anger living in danger what the fuck you gonna do in a situation it's like you need to have steel just to feel relaxation tons o' guns...
one of my most fun daze in amsterdam turned into one of my worse when i got back to my hotel & caught the breaking news 24 hours of stress untill i got home i live in a town that is very connected to vt, have a child who is a freshman at the other big va school most of her high school class are freshman at tech friends, neighbors everyone is shook
i fear for when the victims names are released
Lots of students from this area and nearby, Tim. Unvelievably sad. I hope your daughter has nothing but good news to report.
for the sad state of gun "control" in america common sense vs lunatic fringe who won't budge or compromise an inch they hold the political powers by the nut sack & no ammount of blood in the streets will change their mind
I can't stand how they cling soooo hard to the 2nd Amendment. Here you go:
"Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
A well regulated militia, being necessary ...? Is this still relevant today? I'd say we have a pretty damned regulated militia already.
Now, I have mixed feelings when it comes to gun control (as I'm sure most people do). Of course hunters should be able to possess firearms. And, to a certain extent, I can justify a weapon for personal safety these days (though I personally have no interest). But a line has to be drawn somewhere. And it doesn't help when the 2nd Amendment is treated with religious reverence. If you look at the words, it is easy to see that they were written in a vastly different cultural and political context from what we see today. They didn't have massive cities with huge populations of people, automatic firearms etc etc.
So, folks should think what they'd like about guns. I'd just prefer it if the issues were discussed without tossing around "Constitutional rights" because those rights are long overdue for a review.
for the sad state of gun "control" in america common sense vs lunatic fringe who won't budge or compromise an inch they hold the political powers by the nut sack & no ammount of blood in the streets will change their mind
one thing i can't understand is why it is that important to have the right to own a gun unless you're a professional hunter. i know it's in the constitution but is that right relative today? i would think no. is it better to have metal detectors in the schools instead of just making it harder for a person to buy a gun?
In certain places it is more difficult than others. Virginia, however, is probably the easiest state in the US to legally, quickly obtain most any kind of firearm, and also the most permissive of where you are allowed to carry them.
As for the Constitution,if I had to pick one, I for one would rather legislate to the specific issue (although if gun laws were actually enforced, that would be a better move than more laws that no one enforces) than to start changing the language of the Constitution. Doesn't solve the vast array of problems of crime.
So, folks should think what they'd like about guns. I'd just prefer it if the issues were discussed without tossing around "Constitutional rights" because those rights are long overdue for a review.
There are a lot of things we might 'prefer', but in the case of guns in America, Constitutional Rights are at the heart of the matter, plain and simple.
I doubt you would prefer the direction a review of Constitutional Rights would go right about now.
As for the Constitution,if I had to pick one, I for one would rather legislate to the specific issue (although if gun laws were actually enforced, that would be a better move than more laws that no one enforces) than to start changing the language of the Constitution. Doesn't solve the vast array of problems of crime.
True. When it comes down to it, the language of the Constitution is not going to change much on the street level. I guess I just have a problem with the way the 2nd Amendment is always stripped from its original context in public statements. The right to bear arms is one thing. The right to bear arms to keep a regulated militia is another.
I doubt you would prefer the direction a review of Constitutional Rights would go right about now.
Agreed. Like I say above, I guess my problem is only with the 2nd Amendment being edited, stripping it of its original context. In general, we should hold on to the Constitution (or, more importantly, the Bill of Rights) with everything we have right now.
So, folks should think what they'd like about guns. I'd just prefer it if the issues were discussed without tossing around "Constitutional rights" because those rights are long overdue for a review.
There are a lot of things we might 'prefer', but in the case of guns in America, Constitutional Rights are at the heart of the matter, plain and simple.
I doubt you would prefer the direction a review of Constitutional Rights would go right about now.
I'd slightly disagree with this. I don't think, at this point, people hold onto their guns simply b/c it's their right to do so. Guns are part of American social life and fill in a variety of purposes - some practical, some purely symbolic - and in a society infused with a heavy dose of good ol' fashioned Christian fear, racial paranoia, class envy, masculine posturing, etc. - guns have become a powerfully simple "solution" to any number of anxieties.
This all said, I think that incredibly strict gun control laws would work over the long term, at least in specific cities or states, but there isn't the political will or consensus to make that possible right now. And ironically, most gun control advocates push their agenda by also playing on people's fears but the blowback from that is for a large segment of the population, the way to deal with that fear is to arm yourself - not de-arm everyone else.
The right to bear arms to keep a regulated militia is another.
I do believe you're conflating "militia" with "professional standing army." As matters stand now, there really aren't any major militia groups. There hasn't been a need for them in quite some time.
But the people must reserve the right to form and arm such a militia, should they become neccesary again. Imagine if Congress continued to pass Patriot Act-style legislation and continued to abridge and even obliterate personal freedoms in this country. Do you think we'd need a militia eventually?
I doubt you would prefer the direction a review of Constitutional Rights would go right about now.
Agreed. Like I say above, I guess my problem is only with the 2nd Amendment being edited, stripping it of its original context. In general, we should hold on to the Constitution (or, more importantly, the Bill of Rights) with everything we have right now.
The Founding Fathers knew what they're doing. The "original context" is outlined in the Declaration of Independence.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.[/b]
The right to bear arms to keep a regulated militia is another.
I do believe you're conflating "militia" with "professional standing army." As matters stand now, there really aren't any major militia groups. There hasn't been a need for them in quite some time.
But the people must reserve the right to form and arm such a militia, should they become neccesary again. Imagine if Congress continued to pass Patriot Act-style legislation and continued to abridge and even obliterate personal freedoms in this country. Do you think we'd need a militia eventually?
i think each states "national guard" unit fills this niche
The thing to keep in mind is this: murders, suicides, accidental deaths...these things happen on college campuses all the time.
It does? It's interesting to read about this from another perspective since I don't live in America.
I don't want to make shit sound rampant but violence in schools isn't reported all the time unless it rises to the level of something like VT. There was a mall shooting in Utah in February - five dead - and I asked my students how many had heard of it and only 2-3 people raised their hands.
Then another student pointed out that there's shootings in inner city L.A. high schools all the time but no one ever reports on that either.
As for suicides though, these are generally not reported to press b/c they're seen as private family matters vs. something of public interest. People are actually quite unaware that suicides far outnumber homicides in America but that's because suicides don't make the news at 11.
Comments
Instead of "repeating his attitude" maybe you mean "making simplistic assumptions"?
Then educate my ass....what cities/towns in gun free Australia have the same gang/drug/poverty problems as a place like Philadelphia?
Did you read your own link?
Yes I realise that guns are only a small part of what goes on, and yes I realise that we are a young country and that our particular historical path has allowed us to some extent avoid many of the social problems the U.S and other parts of the world experience. That is not to say Australia doesn???t have its problems mind you.
I don???t think anyone is claiming to fully understand the situation, or tell anyone how to fix it. Just making observations about the system we have here in the hope that the lessons we have learned can be of use to others. I don???t think it is at all inappropriate to comment on the social/political issues of another nation as long as you are open minded to the responses, which I believe most of the people on this board are.
What I will add is that the political and social situation in the U.S gets very extensive worldwide coverage, so while we may not be living in the U.S we certainly have at least some knowledge as to what is going on. Not to mention that what affects the U.S affects large parts of the rest of the world in a pretty direct way, so I think it is in the interest of people in countries like Australia ??? not to mention the rest of the world ??? to pay attention to what is going on and to engage in discussion about it.
With all due respect I think the snag is that....
" Just making observations about the system we have here in the hope that the lessons we have learned can be of use to others[/b] .
What is the lesson?
Did you guys have an incredible gun/crime problem and fix it??
We are past the point where your lesson can really mean anything to us other than what we "shoulda" done 100 years ago or so.
And it comes across kinda snooty.
And I mean that in the nicest way possible(ny accent)
shit is bananas.someone got killed in the park near my house this weekend. yesterday, some dude was running from the cops, carjacking shit, and got shot down a block from my parents house. and this is in a relatively "nice" section. guns everywhere.record pace murders is not a good thing
Haha yeah i can see that. I didn't really phrase it right. I meant it more in a broader sense; in that when you are trying to solve some sort of problem it is best to cast your net of information gathering as widely as possible. To look to as many examples as you can, even if they are not directly comparable - there still may be bits that are relevant or that can be applied.
What the U.S can take out of the Australian example is unclear, but i do think it useful to take a look at as a (reasonably successful) example of gun control.
It does? It's interesting to read about this from another perspective since I don't live in America. I've only got information (so far) about this horrible event from the swedish media, where I live. I gotta say with a fair amount of confidence that this type of thing never have happened over here and that my first thought on why this sort of thing has happened repeatetly in America is because of the gun laws. 200 millions guns in circulation is crazy! It's almost unbelievable. Why whould 200 million people be interested in owning a gun?
into one of my worse
when i got back to my hotel & caught the breaking news
24 hours of stress untill i got home
i live in a town that is very connected to vt,
have a child who is a freshman at the other big va school
most of her high school class are freshman at tech
friends, neighbors
everyone is shook
i fear for when the victims names are released
It's not "that easy" (from a legal basis) to obtain a hand gun in London, specially if you are a "youth".. but if you follow our local news, you'll know we've had escalating violence and shocking murders going on here, by teenagers
violence is violence, no matter how it goes down.. the virginia tech murders are brutal and shocking, particularly in the context of where, why and how they went down - but I think the nature of that is also to do with previous events of a similar nature (eg columbine).. I am just as shocked by 16 year olds breaking and entering each others houses to settle "beef" and murdering some one in their bed in cold blood..
the media reporting on all of this is always appalling and the familiar debates always rise to the top (ie whose to blame? society? hip hop? marilyn manson? gun control laws?) and the practical reality, as with the ultimately failing "war on terror", is that if individuals are "unhinged", or motivated enough, any degree of inhuman/inhumane behaviour is possible, and you can't ever hope to prevent these type of events..
I would say though, that any government that carries out such appalling violence with one hand, and condemns violence with the other, can't really be seen to be setting a good example in all of this.
peace
Sorry i didnt make it to ARC, next time.
My thoughts are with you and your family.
aLAN.
This is kind of key to most of the observations most of the non-Americans are making on the matter, I'd say. The Virginia Tech murders have been the front page lead on just about every UK paper of any note for the last two days, and will doubtless continue to be a major story here for some time yet.
As a non-American living in an industrialised Western country, I'm exposed to aspects of American culture on the daily, both voluntarily and otherwise. It continues to have a significant effect on my life and the way I live it, as it's done since birth, and it's for this reason that I don't feel uncomfortable about commenting on things like this - within reasonable and, I hope, respectful limits, of course. After all, you don't need to be from the North Pole to know it's cold.
The whole issue of gun ownership seems to me to be uniquely American in a way that differs from the more widely-accepted US "imports" (for want of a better term) that non-Americans are familiar with, such as TV, movies, music, etc. Personal ownership of firearms amongst everyday citizens is about the only significant aspect of US culture that hasn't travelled abroad. I still occasionally meet Americans who are a little bewildered by the fact that the overwhelming majority of law-abiding Brits (and even a few who aren't so law-abiding) neither own, nor would want to own, a gun. Nevertheless, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that, if guns were as widely and comparatively easily available over here as they are in the US, we'd be looking at a similar situation. As it stands, though, it does very much seem as if the tighter regulations on gun ownership in the UK are largely doing the job they're intended to do. For example, petty criminals, such as house-breakers, won't carry guns because they know they're not likely to find themselves facing one if they're caught in the act, and because they risk a far higher prison sentence if they're found in possession of an illegal firearm. For me, the wider availability of guns only serves to exacerbate social problems such as drug use, poverty and gang-related violence, wherever they exist. They're not the sole cause of those problems, by any means, but they certainly don't help any.
"Saturday night just ain't that special
Yeah, I got the constitution on the run
'Cause even though we've got the right
To defend our home, to defend our life
Got to understand to get it in hand about the guns"
for the sad state of gun "control" in america
common sense vs lunatic fringe who won't budge or compromise an inch
they hold the political powers by the nut sack
& no ammount of blood in the streets will change their mind
main thing right now for street crimes is knives.. accessible, scary, guaranteed to hurt and leave people physically and mentally scared.. the bigger and scarier the better. scares the shit out of me, that's for sure. "ban the blade" ain't working with the youth, if the knife crime I walked past on saturday says anything..
one thing i can't understand is why it is that important to have the right to own a gun unless you're a professional hunter. i know it's in the constitution but is that right relative today? i would think no. is it better to have metal detectors in the schools instead of just making it harder for a person to buy a gun?
tons o' guns got to watch the way you act
tons o' guns real easy to get
tons o' guns bringing nothing but death
tons o' guns are in the streets nowadays
it's big money and you know crime pays
check your nearest overpopulated ghetto
they greet you with a pistol not trying to say hello
mad kids packed 'cos the neighborhood's like that
want some shit that's fat catch a victim do a stick
kids pulling triggers, n*ggas killing n*ggas
five-o they sit and wait and tally death-toll figures
it's crazy there ain't no time to really chill
jealous motherfuckers always want to act ill
22's 25's 44's 45's
mack elevens ak's taking mad lives
what the fuck you gonna do in a situation
it's like you need to have steel just to feel relaxation
tons o' guns
"But the thing they know best is where the gun is kept"
tons o' guns you got we got they got
the state of affairs yo it's like mad chaos
i know a kid who just passed the other day
they shot him sixteen times so there he lay
you can pray for this shit to like cease
but until then a n*gga's gonna pack a piece[/b]
and yo the devil's got assasination squads
want to kill n*ggas 'cos they're scared of gods
they got camps where they train they learn to take aim
at a n*gga like a piece of game
and i'm not seeing that, them days are gone
'cos now we got chrome to put them where they belong
so me a rude boy from a inna Brooklyn
fuck the bullshit pain and suffering
i'm coming off with a foolproof plan
as if each every lyric was worth a hundred grand
i stand in the face of hatred
letting off mad shots making devils run naked
tons o' guns
"But the thing they know best is where the gun is kept"
tons o' guns everybody's getting strapped
tons o' guns got to watch the way you act
tons o' guns real easy to get
tons o' guns bringing nothing but death
tons o' guns but i don't glorify
'cos more guns will come and much more will die
why, yo i don't know black
some motherfuckers just be living like that
they like to feel the chrome in their hands
the shit makes them feel like little big man
twelve years old catching wreck
'cos there ain't no supervision putting kids in check
people get wounded, others they perish
and what about the mother and the child she cherish
the city is wild up steps the wild child
tension anger living in danger
what the fuck you gonna do in a situation
it's like you need to have steel just to feel relaxation
tons o' guns...
Lots of students from this area and nearby, Tim. Unvelievably sad. I hope your daughter has nothing but good news to report.
I can't stand how they cling soooo hard to the 2nd Amendment. Here you go:
"Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
A well regulated militia, being necessary ...? Is this still relevant today? I'd say we have a pretty damned regulated militia already.
Now, I have mixed feelings when it comes to gun control (as I'm sure most people do). Of course hunters should be able to possess firearms. And, to a certain extent, I can justify a weapon for personal safety these days (though I personally have no interest). But a line has to be drawn somewhere. And it doesn't help when the 2nd Amendment is treated with religious reverence. If you look at the words, it is easy to see that they were written in a vastly different cultural and political context from what we see today. They didn't have massive cities with huge populations of people, automatic firearms etc etc.
So, folks should think what they'd like about guns. I'd just prefer it if the issues were discussed without tossing around "Constitutional rights" because those rights are long overdue for a review.
In certain places it is more difficult than others. Virginia, however, is probably the easiest state in the US to legally, quickly obtain most any kind of firearm, and also the most permissive of where you are allowed to carry them.
As for the Constitution,if I had to pick one, I for one would rather legislate to the specific issue (although if gun laws were actually enforced, that would be a better move than more laws that no one enforces) than to start changing the language of the Constitution. Doesn't solve the vast array of problems of crime.
There are a lot of things we might 'prefer', but in the case of guns in America, Constitutional Rights are at the heart of the matter, plain and simple.
I doubt you would prefer the direction a review of Constitutional Rights would go right about now.
True. When it comes down to it, the language of the Constitution is not going to change much on the street level. I guess I just have a problem with the way the 2nd Amendment is always stripped from its original context in public statements. The right to bear arms is one thing. The right to bear arms to keep a regulated militia is another.
Agreed. Like I say above, I guess my problem is only with the 2nd Amendment being edited, stripping it of its original context. In general, we should hold on to the Constitution (or, more importantly, the Bill of Rights) with everything we have right now.
I'd slightly disagree with this. I don't think, at this point, people hold onto their guns simply b/c it's their right to do so. Guns are part of American social life and fill in a variety of purposes - some practical, some purely symbolic - and in a society infused with a heavy dose of good ol' fashioned Christian fear, racial paranoia, class envy, masculine posturing, etc. - guns have become a powerfully simple "solution" to any number of anxieties.
This all said, I think that incredibly strict gun control laws would work over the long term, at least in specific cities or states, but there isn't the political will or consensus to make that possible right now. And ironically, most gun control advocates push their agenda by also playing on people's fears but the blowback from that is for a large segment of the population, the way to deal with that fear is to arm yourself - not de-arm everyone else.
I had a shooting when I was in school at WVU occur 2 floors down from my dorm room. 1 dead, 2 injured.
I do believe you're conflating "militia" with "professional standing army." As matters stand now, there really aren't any major militia groups. There hasn't been a need for them in quite some time.
But the people must reserve the right to form and arm such a militia, should they become neccesary again. Imagine if Congress continued to pass Patriot Act-style legislation and continued to abridge and even obliterate personal freedoms in this country. Do you think we'd need a militia eventually?
The Founding Fathers knew what they're doing. The "original context" is outlined in the Declaration of Independence.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.[/b]
i think each states "national guard" unit fills this niche
I don't want to make shit sound rampant but violence in schools isn't reported all the time unless it rises to the level of something like VT. There was a mall shooting in Utah in February - five dead - and I asked my students how many had heard of it and only 2-3 people raised their hands.
Then another student pointed out that there's shootings in inner city L.A. high schools all the time but no one ever reports on that either.
As for suicides though, these are generally not reported to press b/c they're seen as private family matters vs. something of public interest. People are actually quite unaware that suicides far outnumber homicides in America but that's because suicides don't make the news at 11.