"Black men walking wit white girls on they arms, I be mad at em, as if I know they moms....."
- Common
Mabye he feels like he's being righteous here or something, but this line sucks. I mean, i guess theres the whole self hating OJ oreo cookie stereotype that often gets thrown around on some "keep it real" black empowerment type shit. But I still wish we could leave that whole racial purity shit back with the last generation. To me this is just as racist as some white guy talking about how he hates to see Black guys with white girls. Right? Or is it more like how he hates to see white guys with black girls? Is there a difference? Is there some double standard gender bullshit thrown in there too?
Please explain to me how this is less ignorant than some dude bragging about his watch?
Not to mention this isnt nearly the first time the posterboy for "concious" rap has said some stupid and potentially hateful shit.
I mean, its 2005, get a fucking clue.
There are a lot of issues here.
First: Love Knows No Color.
Second racial/sexual politics. This is real and includes many issues: There is a political/social difference between a man from a dominant race dating a woman from an opressed race and a man from an opressed race dating a woman from a dominant race.
Black men with White women is a major social/political issue in the African American community because there are many more Black Women than men. Black men in America have a very short life span. Young Black men in America are encarcerated at an alarming rate. Thus Black women who want to marry and raise a family with someone who shares their cultural back ground have a very small pool to choose from.
Self hate is another issues.
There are many more that Olive could talk about since he has a PHD or something on the subject.
At the end of the day, who someone loves is not controled by these social/political/racial debates. No one should judge an individuals life.
Not all black people are going to like you, approve of you, or show enthusiasm at the prospect of you becoming members of their family. White people spend five centuries oppressing black people on this continent and when they finally remove their collective knee from black people's collective throat just a little bit wanna get all ass-hurt that not all black people like them.
And this whole idea of imposing the burden of "consciousness" on rappers is lame. Try to figure out for yourself what you feel is right and what you feel is wrong--don't look for a rapper to be your personal moral exemplar.
As usuall Faux comes with the common sence.
I think I got a little overenthusiastic, though--three centuries is probably a more realistic approximation than five.
If yall are so up in arms about this, why listen to conscious rap at all? It's not like Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, etc said a whole lot of nice things about white people.
Yeah man - couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps some of you younglings forgot but a FUNDAMENTAL basis of "conscious rap" has been giving the middle finger to white people. (Now would be a good time for people to re-read "They Use Words Like Mackadocious.")
I also think it's high comedy that people here think that a Black man complaining about interracial relationships is equivalent to a White guy saying something similar. But hey - as we all know, when it comes to records, Soulstrutters are up on it. When it comes to either 1) race or 2) sexism, this place is a goddamn joke.
Just to point out the painfully obvious: when white folk say "no" to interracial relationships, they have been able to enforce it through legislation (at the very least) and lynching (at the very worst). When anyone else (non-white) complain about interracial relationships, the best they can do is put it in a song.
Not all black people are going to like you, approve of you, or show enthusiasm at the prospect of you becoming members of their family. White people spend five centuries oppressing black people on this continent and when they finally remove their collective knee from black people's collective throat just a little bit wanna get all ass-hurt that not all black people like them.
And this whole idea of imposing the burden of "consciousness" on rappers is lame. Try to figure out for yourself what you feel is right and what you feel is wrong--don't look for a rapper to be your personal moral exemplar.
I dont really care. But I do find the issue to be one thats interesting. Your opinion in particular. I was really just starting some shit on the internet rather than voicing any personal outrage.
Well, I don't share his perspective--I feel strongly that these are individual decisions that aren't the business of anyone other than the two people involved.
But I understand where he's coming from. I know something about the history of black people and white people in this country. And because of that I can't really bring myself to get worked up about what he's saying.
I find Kanye denigrating college, or Kweli talking down on women that use birth control, to be much more disturbing/offensive.
If yall are so up in arms about this, why listen to conscious rap at all? It's not like Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, etc said a whole lot of nice things about white people.
Yeah man - couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps some of you younglings forgot but a FUNDAMENTAL basis of "conscious rap" has been giving the middle finger to white people. (Now would be a good time for people to re-read "They Use Words Like Mackadocious.")
I also think it's high comedy that people here think that a Black man complaining about interracial relationships is equivalent to a White guy saying something similar. But hey - as we all know, when it comes to records, Soulstrutters are up on it. When it comes to either 1) race or 2) sexism, this place is a goddamn joke.
Just to point out the painfully obvious: when white folk say "no" to interracial relationships, they have been able to enforce it through legislation (at the very least) and lynching (at the very worst). When anyone else (non-white) complain about interracial relationships, the best they can do is put it in a song.
Common's been consistent with that message for his entire career.
"I put, bros before hoes that's the way love and life goes It's a Jungle out there but I'm never Fever-in for them white hoes I love black thighs, you sisters better realize That real hair and real eyes get real guys"
I find Common's self-hating homophobia to be much more disturbing / offensive.
"I thought I was cool, with my "Members Only" and a bowl fade Walk to Walgreens to get the Sportin' Waves pomade And soft brush, as we got older we would start ruckus and bang fags"
Hey, let's quote the rest of the song that is relevant to this instead of just part of it:
Black men walking wit white girls on they arms I be mad at em as if I know they moms Told to go beyond the surface, a person's a person When we lessen our women our condition seems to worsen
Doggie is saying that he doesn't like when he sees black men with white girls. He's told that people should forget about skin color, but by abandoning black women for white women, black people as a whole suffer. I don't really have a strong opinion on this subject, but at least quote the whole thing instead of taking things out of context and making a huge issue out of it.
I find Common's self-hating homophobia to be much more disturbing / offensive.
Word - though I think he's made remarkable improvements in the post-Erykah age. I mean, dude is doing PSAs for the "Know HIV" campaign (which isn't to say that HIV = a gay-only thing, but it's a pretty big step from a dude who once did a show in SF proclaiming, "This is the Bay Area, not the gay area." Primo Asshole thing to say.
Hey, let's quote the rest of the song that is relevant to this instead of just part of it:
Black men walking wit white girls on they arms I be mad at em as if I know they moms Told to go beyond the surface, a person's a person When we lessen our women our condition seems to worsen
Doggie is saying that he doesn't like when he sees black men with white girls. He's told that people should forget about skin color, but by abandoning black women for white women, black people as a whole suffer. I don't really have a strong opinion on this subject, but at least quote the whole thing instead of taking things out of context and making a huge issue out of it.
Fuck yeah. I mean, what Common is addressing is the destruction of the Black community. Whether you think interracial relationships is a cause behind that is open to debate - I'm with Faux on this one; who you choose to love may be political but it's also inherently personal. However, it's hardly as if Common made a whole song about it and frankly, saying, "I'm mad" is pretty fucking mild compared to joking about queer-bashing.
All I know is I've seen Common give some 16 year-old White and Latina chicks his hotel room number after a show. so it's okay to fuck them, just don't hold their hand in public!
Is it possible that "concious" means something different to you than other people?
If concious rap means writing lyrics that reflect a self-awareness and the state of Black America, how is Common out of line?
is that really the "state of black america"? Seriously, what are you guys talking about? Its an ignorant line. game over.
I hardly think that attitude is embraced by all of "black america". I mean, theres racist white people, but if I made a racist album and then said I was just reflecting on the state of white america, would I be out of line? Yes. Cause its still on some bullshit.
I'm not saying this attitude is embraced by everyone. And you can't put the state of White America and Black America up against each other and expect to have a fair comparison. They are two different situations with their own unique complexities.
Here is what I believe Common is addressing:
Less Black men with Black women = Black families.
Where is the racism in that equation?
what common should be addressing is if every white man got with every black woman and vice versa, in two generations, things would be a lot better for everyone than if races kept sticking together.
The thing is, white people will never really get it.
They will always try to sweep shit under the rug, but only when it's to their own advantage.
As far as common, i could understand his views when you have IN MIND that we, as white people, totally forbid interracial relationships for CENTURIES. Of course rape wasn't on the menu (sic)...
Dude from Chi-town (Shy-town as i call it. My fam lives nearby Cedgwick). Not that i agree that people shouldnt cross the fence, but
interracial dating is not game. Myself, im married to an Ebony goddess and that DOESNT makes me "blacker" in the eyes of racist mofos. On both sides. We got more hate than anything...Both sides.
I don't blame Common if you know Chi-Town and how life is...No fairy tale. KKK marching on Skokie, no black and white couples allowed right and left (and when they are tolerated, this is a freak show). History is a burden that we have to carry. You can't just forget and say let's all fuck without condoms.lol.
Now with that said, Common fuck all types of bitches, whites included...
what common should be addressing is if every white man got with every black woman and vice versa, in two generations, things would be a lot better for everyone than if races kept sticking together.
*laugh* This is better than watching Chappelle. (not really but it's pure comedy)
At this point I would ask the resident historians around here to explain for us little guys, "conscious" of what exactly? It seems like a pretty relative term within the context of hip hop in general, no?
what common should be addressing is if every white man got with every black woman and vice versa, in two generations, things would be a lot better for everyone than if races kept sticking together.
*laugh* This is better than watching Chappelle. (not really but it's pure comedy)
seriously...the scary part is that people really believe that it's true, that the races can(and should) neutralize all animosity by just fucking each other(with love, of course).
"Black men walking wit white girls on they arms, I be mad at em, as if I know they moms....."
- Common
This shit is wack. If I want to find some meaningful commentary of the status of race relations in america, I'll sooner read some eldridge cleaver. I don't bother trying to find any real meaning in the throw away rhymes of rappers. Now he's talking about this...If it doesn't sell, he'll change it up...write a tune on his next lp about jocking Paris Hilton or something...
If I want to find some meaningful commentary of the status of race relations in america, I'll sooner read some eldridge cleaver. I don't bother trying to find any real meaning in the throw away rhymes of rappers.
Truth. Though I'm not sure I'd go with Cleaver - I'd prefer to some Baldwin or Malcolm myself.
"I put, bros before hoes that's the way love and life goes It's a Jungle out there but I'm never Fever-in for them white hoes I love black thighs, you sisters better realize That real hair and real eyes get real guys"
1994
"Black men walking wit white girls on they arms I be mad at em as if I know they moms Told to go beyond the surface, a person's a person When we lessen our women our condition seems to worsen"
2005
write a tune on his next lp about jocking Paris Hilton or something...
Not likely
I don't bother trying to find any real meaning in the throw away rhymes of rappers.
If you don't take it seriously then why listen to it at all?
Thanks for the insight y'all. Cool to hear some educated opinions. This is always a complicated topic, I kinda feel dumb not looking at the rest of the lyrics of the song. I just posted the quote from the allhiphop.com forums.
But I felt we hadnt had a race thread in a while on soulstrut. Obviously im less educated on the topic than some of yall.
It's not like Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, etc said a whole lot of nice things about white people.
I would disagree with that. PE pretty much had a policy of only talking specifics and not just going off on a whole group.
I guess you weren't familiar with their "J.A.C.K.A.S.S. Theory" ("just acting caucasian kills a simple solution").
And Urrs, to your point: Common was just about my favorite rapper for the better part of a decade, but I always had a serious problem with his serious problem (homophobia). Possibly the only highlight of "Electric Circus" was the moment when he seemed to show some maturity and growth in re his own views on the topic:
From "Between Me, You & Liberation"
He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled A lump in his throat, his fear built My whole life it was instilled This ain't the way that men feel A feeling, he said he wish he could kill A feeling, not even time could heal This is how real life's supposed to be? For it to happen to someone close to me? So far we'd come, for him to tell me As he did, insecurity held me I felt like he failed me Til his spirit yelled "help me" I'd known him for like what seemed forever About going pro we dreamed together Never knew it would turn out like this For so long he tried to fight this Now there was no way for him to ignore it His parents found out and hated him for it How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him No longer he said had he hated himself Through sexuality he liberated himself Between me and you
Of course, he still thinks of homosexuality as something that "happens" to someone, akin to an illness, which is clearly regrettable, but still; the above verse was enough to make me decide to keep an otherwise awful album.
If yall are so up in arms about this, why listen to conscious rap at all? It's not like Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, etc said a whole lot of nice things about white people.
Yeah man - couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps some of you younglings forgot but a FUNDAMENTAL basis of "conscious rap" has been giving the middle finger to white people. (Now would be a good time for people to re-read "They Use Words Like Mackadocious.")
I also think it's high comedy that people here think that a Black man complaining about interracial relationships is equivalent to a White guy saying something similar. But hey - as we all know, when it comes to records, Soulstrutters are up on it. When it comes to either 1) race or 2) sexism, this place is a goddamn joke.
Just to point out the painfully obvious: when white folk say "no" to interracial relationships, they have been able to enforce it through legislation (at the very least) and lynching (at the very worst). When anyone else (non-white) complain about interracial relationships, the best they can do is put it in a song.
It's not like Brand Nubian, Public Enemy, etc said a whole lot of nice things about white people.
I would disagree with that. PE pretty much had a policy of only talking specifics and not just going off on a whole group.
I guess you weren't familiar with their "J.A.C.K.A.S.S. Theory" ("just acting caucasian kills a simple solution").
But that doesn't bother me. The whole caucasian ideal is some old racist shit from when they measured people heads and said white people came from the Cacasoid (sp) mountains. It's yet another total BS theory that has stuck around in language when it should have been dropped. The fact that people are classified by color at all is serious BS. I have no problem with attacking that stuff.
*laugh* This is better than watching Chappelle. (not really but it's pure comedy)
I don't have cable, or a dvd so I've never seen Chappelle. But I heard the quiz show skit "I Know Black People". I have to admitt I was the loser who said "voting".
I read about 10 replies in this thread and the fact that a bunch of white dudes are upset just shows where motherfuckers heads are really [/b] at.
why? And Im hardly upset. But I still think its a wack line. Sorry. My original point was that common has a lot of semi ignorant lines for being held up as such a moral authority in hip hop.
But whatever. This topic is dead now. And I dont think we heard from even 1 black person. yay for us.
Comments
I cetainly dont. But at the same time I dont see any harm in discussing some of the things they say.
Interesting. I was not aware of all that.
I think I got a little overenthusiastic, though--three centuries is probably a more realistic approximation than five.
Yeah man - couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps some of you younglings forgot but a FUNDAMENTAL basis of "conscious rap" has been giving the middle finger to white people. (Now would be a good time for people to re-read "They Use Words Like Mackadocious.")
I also think it's high comedy that people here think that a Black man complaining about interracial relationships is equivalent to a White guy saying something similar. But hey - as we all know, when it comes to records, Soulstrutters are up on it. When it comes to either 1) race or 2) sexism, this place is a goddamn joke.
Just to point out the painfully obvious: when white folk say "no" to interracial relationships, they have been able to enforce it through legislation (at the very least) and lynching (at the very worst). When anyone else (non-white) complain about interracial relationships, the best they can do is put it in a song.
Well, I don't share his perspective--I feel strongly that these are individual decisions that aren't the business of anyone other than the two people involved.
But I understand where he's coming from. I know something about the history of black people and white people in this country. And because of that I can't really bring myself to get worked up about what he's saying.
I find Kanye denigrating college, or Kweli talking down on women that use birth control, to be much more disturbing/offensive.
Real talk
Thank you, "Olive"
I find Common's self-hating homophobia to be much more disturbing / offensive.
Doggie is saying that he doesn't like when he sees black men with white girls. He's told that people should forget about skin color, but by abandoning black women for white women, black people as a whole suffer. I don't really have a strong opinion on this subject, but at least quote the whole thing instead of taking things out of context and making a huge issue out of it.
Word - though I think he's made remarkable improvements in the post-Erykah age. I mean, dude is doing PSAs for the "Know HIV" campaign (which isn't to say that HIV = a gay-only thing, but it's a pretty big step from a dude who once did a show in SF proclaiming, "This is the Bay Area, not the gay area." Primo Asshole thing to say.
Fuck yeah. I mean, what Common is addressing is the destruction of the Black community. Whether you think interracial relationships is a cause behind that is open to debate - I'm with Faux on this one; who you choose to love may be political but it's also inherently personal. However, it's hardly as if Common made a whole song about it and frankly, saying, "I'm mad" is pretty fucking mild compared to joking about queer-bashing.
How? do you REALLY believe nonsense like that?
They will always try to sweep shit under the rug, but only when it's to their own advantage.
As far as common, i could understand his views when you have IN MIND that we, as white people, totally forbid interracial relationships for CENTURIES. Of course rape wasn't on the menu (sic)...
Dude from Chi-town (Shy-town as i call it. My fam lives nearby Cedgwick). Not that i agree that people shouldnt cross the fence, but
interracial dating is not game. Myself, im married to an Ebony goddess and that DOESNT makes me "blacker" in the eyes of racist mofos. On both sides. We got more hate than anything...Both sides.
I don't blame Common if you know Chi-Town and how life is...No fairy tale. KKK marching on Skokie, no black and white couples allowed right and left (and when they are tolerated, this is a freak show). History is a burden that we have to carry. You can't just forget and say let's all fuck without condoms.lol.
Now with that said, Common fuck all types of bitches, whites included...
*laugh* This is better than watching Chappelle. (not really but it's pure comedy)
seriously...the scary part is that people really believe that it's true, that the races can(and should) neutralize all animosity by just fucking each other(with love, of course).
This shit is wack. If I want to find some meaningful commentary of the status of race relations in america, I'll sooner read some eldridge cleaver. I don't bother trying to find any real meaning in the throw away rhymes of rappers. Now he's talking about this...If it doesn't sell, he'll change it up...write a tune on his next lp about jocking Paris Hilton or something...
Yawn.
So, is this new album a good listen?
Truth. Though I'm not sure I'd go with Cleaver - I'd prefer to some Baldwin or Malcolm myself.
Not likely
If you don't take it seriously then why listen to it at all?
But I felt we hadnt had a race thread in a while on soulstrut. Obviously im less educated on the topic than some of yall.
I guess you weren't familiar with their "J.A.C.K.A.S.S. Theory" ("just acting caucasian kills a simple solution").
And Urrs, to your point: Common was just about my favorite rapper for the better part of a decade, but I always had a serious problem with his serious problem (homophobia). Possibly the only highlight of "Electric Circus" was the moment when he seemed to show some maturity and growth in re his own views on the topic:
From "Between Me, You & Liberation"
He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled
A lump in his throat, his fear built
My whole life it was instilled
This ain't the way that men feel
A feeling, he said he wish he could kill
A feeling, not even time could heal
This is how real life's supposed to be?
For it to happen to someone close to me?
So far we'd come, for him to tell me
As he did, insecurity held me
I felt like he failed me
Til his spirit yelled "help me"
I'd known him for like what seemed forever
About going pro we dreamed together
Never knew it would turn out like this
For so long he tried to fight this
Now there was no way for him to ignore it
His parents found out and hated him for it
How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him
No longer he said had he hated himself
Through sexuality he liberated himself
Between me and you
Of course, he still thinks of homosexuality as something that "happens" to someone, akin to an illness, which is clearly regrettable, but still; the above verse was enough to make me decide to keep an otherwise awful album.
Sorry I meant to say Oliver.
But that doesn't bother me. The whole caucasian ideal is some old racist shit from when they measured people heads and said white people came from the Cacasoid (sp) mountains. It's yet another total BS theory that has stuck around in language when it should have been dropped. The fact that people are classified by color at all is serious BS. I have no problem with attacking that stuff.
I don't have cable, or a dvd so I've never seen Chappelle. But I heard the quiz show skit "I Know Black People". I have to admitt I was the loser who said "voting".
I retract my earlier post.
Dan
Yeah where were all the upset white dudes in 1997 when Com said:
"I feel Mexican, hip hop is my garden" - Invocation
Where were they?
(semi-jokingly)
why? And Im hardly upset. But I still think its a wack line. Sorry. My original point was that common has a lot of semi ignorant lines for being held up as such a moral authority in hip hop.
But whatever. This topic is dead now. And I dont think we heard from even 1 black person. yay for us.
For reals?