Scratching with CDs, accurate sound?

alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
edited June 2005 in DJ Talk / Mixes
Hi, I was wondering if i could get some opinions on how far cd turntables have come in the last while in terms of sounding close to vinyl as much as possible...in terms of scratching. i want to know because i want to scratch stuff that i've recorded with instruments and whatever, and if im gonna lay down dough for such things, i dont what them sounding like hip hop ejay or Rahzel on helium thanks for any help/suggestions.i've been looking at stuff on this page;http://www.moogaudio.com/store/products.php?id=10and its a hefty investment (especially if you're buying 2 and a mixer), so i want to be sure before i save up for such things.
«1

  Comments


  • I've messed around on this one a few times:
    http://www.moogaudio.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=picd008
    and it's pretty close to a turntable. The only real difference is the lack of
    a moving platter while the music is playing. There are controls allowing
    you to alter the acceleration (ie: how quickly the platter stops when you
    touch it and how quickly it starts up when you let it go) which is nice.

    You should go to a Guitar Center type store in your area. They probably
    have one you could try out and get the feel for.

  • volumenvolumen 2,525 Posts
    I haven't tired one, but the couple times I've seen a DJ use them they sounded good. Obviously your not going to get the rough vinyl sound and I'm not sure if CD's eventually get cue burn or not. Last time I saw De La Soul Mase was only useing CD's. He was beat juggleing and everything so I suddenly realized CD's aren't so bad.


    You might want to custom make your own CD's recording from vinyl then you may get a little rougher sound.

  • GrafwritahGrafwritah 4,184 Posts
    Obviously your not going to get the rough vinyl sound and I'm not sure if CD's eventually get cue burn or not.

    They just read the data once......

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    I'm not sure if CD's eventually get cue burn or not.

    that's not how CDJs work. you're not scratching the actual CD. there is no contact on a CD (the music is read by lasers as opposed to a needle), so there isn't any way to "cue burn" the CD. besides, when you're using a CDJ, it reads the music into the memory at like 36x normal CD speed, so when you're scratching or backspinning the platter or even just pitching up the track, the CDJ is running an algorithim on the music in the memory in real time to make it sound like scratching, rewinding, or pitch control on a turntable.

    since it is digital, scratching on a CDJ doesn't sound louder than the regular playback of the music (which does happen when you scratch a record). i like that aspect of scratching on CDs a lot. and they can't skip like a record can when you scratch.

    but there are nuances when scratching records that can't be created on a CDJ, like turning the platter of to scratch, or like hydroplaning or whatever. but for most stuff, the CDJs sound as good as vinyl.

  • prof_rockwellprof_rockwell 2,867 Posts
    I'd reccomend the Numark CDJ with the turntable platter on top, or the Pioneer CDJ800 (NOT the 1000). The Numark is fresh cause you really get the same interface as a turntable, like urrs said, where you can do more tactile scratches (hydroplanes, lazers, etc.) that you can't get with a static interface like on the Pioneer. Plus, the Numark has SICK effects on it that are bananas - delay, flange, sonar, filter.

    The Pioneer is a better quality CD player, and the 800 is several hundred less than the 1000, and it's got a cool looping feature, where you can take a 4 beat loop and chop it down to 3 beats, 2 beats and 1 beat with the hit of a button to do breakdowns live in your set. (the Numark has this function too).

    The downside to the Numark is that it is much bigger and heavier, hence a little more difficult to transport.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Why not just get this?

    http://www.moogaudio.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=rac001

    I've used it, I've seen top-notch scratch DJs use it and it's great. The only thing it's not so good with are needle drops.

    Alternatively, this system is a bit more hardware heavy, but it kicks ass too in terms of "realness":

    http://www.moogaudio.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=vea02

    But you need to use it with the Tascam TTM attachment.


  • The most responsive CDJ I've used to date:


  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    I agree with O-Dub. Serato is better than a CDJ if you are going to going to spin digital music very much at all.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    I agree with O-Dub. Serato is better than a CDJ if you are going to going to spin digital music very much at all.

    Yeah - it sounds like dude just wants to scratch but not even play out. If that's the case, save yourself $400 and get the Serato system or the Vestax/TTM. I think CDJs make more sense for travelling DJs but they're easier (and safer) to carry around then a laptop, two turntables and a hub (Serato). But if I wanted familiarity and performance, I'd definitely rock one of the two systems I just mentioned.

    Oliver

  • johmbolayajohmbolaya 4,472 Posts
    I have been wanting to buy one myself, but still am uncertain of which. I will buy one before the end of the year, but if I can get it sooner (especially as I'm doing some new stuff now), even better.

    Can someone up a quick demo of how it sounds, maybe two minutes or so? I'm not talking a demo of someone playing the CD turntable, there are enough of those, but to put in any random sound and fucking it up.

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    dude it's the same. you can't hear the difference.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    dude it's the same. you can't hear the difference.

    Agreed. The only diff. might be if you're using a lower quality MP3 - in which case, it will sound "digital" but that's the file, not the CDJ.

    John, I'd seriously recommend checking out Serato Scratch Live or the Vestax/TTM combo. I think you'd be impressed.


  • dude it's the same. you can't hear the difference.

    I hae to admit..after being highly skeptical of the whole CD dj thing, I have been won over by the CDJ. I recently bought the Pioneer CDJ800 and it really is incredible how similar it is to scratching an actual record. I like it so much so, I am selling one of my 1200s and soon buying another Pioneer CDJ800.


    try it..you will like it.

  • dayday 9,612 Posts
    I just bought this off my cousin ($600 bones holler - posting from the couch right now like what)

    and i'm veryveryvery close to getting Serato in the upcoming months.

    A good friend just bought it and says outside of the calibration (do you have to do this on every set up you connect it to?) it's as dope as everyone says.

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    dude it's the same. you can't hear the difference.

    I hae to admit..after being highly skeptical of the whole CD dj thing, I have been won over by the CDJ. I recently bought the Pioneer CDJ800 and it really is incredible how similar it is to scratching an actual record. I like it so much so, I am selling one of my 1200s and soon buying another Pioneer CDJ800.


    try it..you will like it.

    Personally, I don't like the Pioneer CDJs at all, mostly because it doesn't FEEL the same even if the sound is the same. But if I were a DJ on the road (which I'm not), I'd probably invest in a pair of CD turntables (not necessarily Pioneers) because it'd be easier that way.

  • meshmesh 925 Posts
    I just bought Serato

    but its in a different town waiting for me. looking forward to playing with it when i get home in two days...


  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    thanks for the wealthy insights people, i really appreciate it.

    odubs, i'l research the ones u mentioned...

    maybe if i state my priorities y'all can tell me what is should lean towards...

    -As mentioned before I really want one that sounds very close to vinyl scratching. I understand some are primarily for just mixing or whatever, but the priority for me is the scratching capacity, so i can record my own songs in reason or whatever, have them scratch at certain points and play on.
    -I'l never use them for a live gig, its more for stuff i want to make for myself, so the transportability is not an issue for me
    -i've never used vinyl turntables ever, so i dont really need that one that simulates vinyl with the spinning platter


    ps: any insight into why the prices range so much? i.e. from $650 canadian to $1700?

    thanks again

  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    Why not just get this?



    Alternatively, this system is a bit more hardware heavy, but it kicks ass too in terms of "realness":

    http://www.moogaudio.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=vea02

    But you need to use it with the Tascam TTM attachment.


    sorry if im asking something really stupid (this stuff is all new to me), but i looked up tascam TTM attachment, and this popped up


    ..if thats what you're talking about, why would that be necessary for the Vestax CDX05? isnt it for using with vinyl turntables?


  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Alien,

    That's a good question so let me try to explain...

    The TTM was originally created for use with old school CD turntables that did NOT have a "vinyl-like scratch surface" (ala the Pioneer CDJ wheel). It was made to work with this Tascam CD DJ system that you couldn't scratch with by itself. But the folks there decided to make the TTM so that, by combining the CD player and the TTM, you could have the benefits of both worlds: CD convenience with turntable-esque scratch action (jesus, this sounds like really bad advertising copy but whatever).

    Well, the thing is: the TTM is really kick ass because, among other things: IT NEVER SKIPS unlike Serato or Final Scratch which has all the liabilities of your conventional turntable set-up. Since it's a wheel that rests on the turntable, there's no danger of skippage, right? Of course, you can't do thumps or taps either or needle drops for that matter. Placement of the digital needle is still controlled through the CD player.

    But in any case, other companies realized the TTM was pretty kick ass so they began to integrate the technology with their CD turntables - Vestax being one of the first to get on-board (though there's talk for other companies to do the same).

    The Vestax scratch pad that comes with their turntable is functional but really? Not that great - definitely not as good as some of their competitors. But if you treat the Vestax as a base unit and use the TTM to control your scratching, you're golden. And the TTM isn't that much more - about $100, tops.

    This said, I still think you should check out the Serato Scratch Live system first. That's where my money would go. (But only if you have a good laptop)

  • DubiousDubious 1,865 Posts
    out of curiosity how does that TTM thing actually attach to the deck in question?

    can you show up to a gig with just the TTM and slap it on the clubs decks and be up and running? (assuming they have compatible cdjs)

    can you move it out of the way to use the deck in question to still play wax on?

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    out of curiosity how does that TTM thing actually attach to the deck in question?

    can you show up to a gig with just the TTM and slap it on the clubs decks and be up and running? (assuming they have compatible cdjs)

    can you move it out of the way to use the deck in question to still play wax on?

    I think they have adapters that will attach to various turntables. Vestax players actually already have a build in adapter for it into their turntable line and I think newer Technics, you can use the spare cartridge holder with it.

  • sleepsleep 54 Posts
    this site has plenty of reviews, comparisons, etc:

    http://www.skratchworx.com/

  • silvertonesilvertone 765 Posts
    NDN...
    I have used the Numark CDX's extensively for 2 month tour last fall. They are the most accurate and responsive in terms of feeling/sounding most like a 1200... and I would buy one of these if I was going to add a CD turnable to my setup. However, you really do have to baby them, but a custom hardcase for it. We had one night where a CD wouldn't eject from the turntable, preventing us from being able to go any further than the stuff that we had on the disk, and had to wait three days for a replacement, and needless to say, we have felt a tad shaky about using them for a full tour again. I would say it is more of a studio tool than a touring machine.

    The nice thing about them is the MIDI sync out. The beat reader reads the BPM, and outputs a MIDI sync, which is cool if you are using it in tandem with an MPC or anything else with a note repeat.

    Anyways... I would vote CDX.

    .02

  • ayresayres 1,452 Posts
    i've never used vinyl turntables
    i've never used vinyl turntables
    i've never used vinyl turntables
    i've never used vinyl turntables
    i've never used vinyl turntables

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts

    -i've never used vinyl turntables ever, so i dont really need that one that simulates vinyl with the spinning platter

    I didn't notice this until Ayres pointed it out but ummm...

    How do you know how to scratch then?

  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    sup,
    this may sound stupid, but i've always wanted turntables to experiment with things i've recorded. im just learning guitar/piano/ right now and thought it would be cool if you could compose your own samples and tweak with them physically, sort of like inventing the sample you never had. when i heard about cdjs, i thought damn, that's a lot cheaper than pressing vinyl...and would be interesting to utilize as mentioned above, but never thought of it seriously. recently i just saw prices on them, and thought i'l take it up.


    so why scratching capacity? well so i can learn it, (my guess is it would be something like electic guitar before playing acoustic..maybe that's a bad analogy), but basically i love the effects in music that have been pulled off with vinyl turntables, and i'm just thinking of getting into the hobby straight into digital. Rather than waste money on something entry level digital that just lets you mix, i would like something i could develop skills,such as juggling,scratching and so that's why i'm curious. i've played with software programs to mimic a scratch effect, and they sound terrible, nothing close to the stuff i love.

    hope that made sense.so why am i even on this site? i really like the tastes and appreciation for music, and respect the insights such as those contributed in this thread.

    peace

  • mannybolonemannybolone 15,030 Posts
    Well, if this is the case, then don't get the Vestax/TTM and don't get the Serato. I assumed you already owned turntables but if that's not the case, get a Pioneer or Numark (I personally like the feel of the Numark platter more but that's because it's like vinyl).

    The thing is though: while I"m sure there are people who can learn how to scratch using a CDJ, I'm just not sure how you would go about it. But hey, more power to you.

    Oliver


    sup,
    this may sound stupid, but i've always wanted turntables to experiment with things i've recorded. im just learning guitar/piano/ right now and thought it would be cool if you could compose your own samples and tweak with them physically, sort of like inventing the sample you never had. when i heard about cdjs, i thought damn, that's a lot cheaper than pressing vinyl...and would be interesting to utilize as mentioned above, but never thought of it seriously. recently i just saw prices on them, and thought i'l take it up.


    so why scratching capacity? well so i can learn it, (my guess is it would be something like electic guitar before playing acoustic..maybe that's a bad analogy), but basically i love the effects in music that have been pulled off with vinyl turntables, and i'm just thinking of getting into the hobby straight into digital. Rather than waste money on something entry level digital that just lets you mix, i would like something i could develop skills,such as juggling,scratching and so that's why i'm curious. i've played with software programs to mimic a scratch effect, and they sound terrible, nothing close to the stuff i love.

    hope that made sense.so why am i even on this site? i really like the tastes and appreciation for music, and respect the insights such as those contributed in this thread.

    peace

  • YemskyYemsky 551 Posts
    Hi, I was wondering if i could get some opinions on how far cd turntables have come in the last while in terms of sounding close to vinyl as much as possible...in terms of scratching. i want to know because i want to scratch stuff that i've recorded with instruments and whatever, and if im gonna lay down dough for such things, i dont what them sounding like hip hop ejay or Rahzel on helium thanks for any help/suggestions.


    This was an eye opener to me:
    http://www.wizbitwonderland.com/video/361_technics01.mov

  • prof_rockwellprof_rockwell 2,867 Posts


    The Vestax scratch pad that comes with their turntable is functional but really? Not that great - definitely not as good as some of their competitors. But if you treat the Vestax as a base unit and use the TTM to control your scratching, you're golden.



    Co-sign, the interface on the vestax S-U-C-K-S you have to physically depress the whole pad to get the music to stop, whereas others is just touch sensitive. Considering how much Vestax has relied on the input of DJs like Qbert and others, the question "what the f*@k were they thinking" pops into mind every time I tested this unit out. Haven't used the TTM, but I assume that would take care of that problem...







    www.mvphomevideo.com




  • alieNDNalieNDN 2,181 Posts
    dude it's the same. you can't hear the difference.

    I hae to admit..after being highly skeptical of the whole CD dj thing, I have been won over by the CDJ. I recently bought the Pioneer CDJ800 and it really is incredible how similar it is to scratching an actual record. I like it so much so, I am selling one of my 1200s and soon buying another Pioneer CDJ800.


    try it..you will like it.

    southcrack, the way it sounds you got one cdj so far right? do you hook it up to a mixer or output it straight? cause im probably gonna take the same approach of buying one at a time as im saving dough.

    ez
Sign In or Register to comment.