Bootlegging Killed it (hiphop related)

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  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    consumers would probably get fed up with it. cd encryption tends to be invasive, renders cds unplayable on some players, and is pretty much obnoxious because i should be able to do whatever the fuck i want to do with shit i purchase. labels have also been unable to agree on what type of copy protection should be used and some of that shit downright destroys computers (see sony's short lived copy protection.) if i knew a cd had a chance to not play in my player and i had no way of returning it for a refund, why the fuck would i buy it?

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    i dont think there is a question that bootlegging and downloading have strongly impacted cd sales for both independents and majors.

    CORRECT - NOW WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO??? (cue man cluthcing other man's coat). there's not a single person here who can say the RIAA is unable to create a disc that is difficult as fuck to copy. they can make usage licences for software limiting the number of times it can be installed - wht don't they just bite and make CD's unable to be downloaded into you computer and ipod, but you could get a password to get a digital version of it when pruchasing the CD? If you've bought it online, create a password for the opposite. It could really be that simple, but they're fighting the users like it's downloader's responsiblity to protect their copywright - get the fuck outta here.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    people are not going to buy a product that they have to jump through hoops to use. the reason why the itunes store and others have been so successful is that you setup an account and then hit buy and the shit is on your computer.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    people are not going to buy a product that they have to jump through hoops to use. the reason why the itunes store and others have been so successful is that you setup an account and then hit buy and the shit is on your computer.

    Buying a CD = "jumping through hoops"?

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    Buying a CD = "jumping through hoops"?
    wht don't they just bite and make CD's unable to be downloaded into you computer and ipod, but you could get a password to get a digital version of it when pruchasing the CD? If you've bought it online, create a password for the opposite.
    shit like that is too complicated. any "successful" copy protection will not really be successful because it will just alienate consumers.

  • vajdaijvajdaij 447 Posts
    there's not a single person here who can say the RIAA is unable to create a disc that is difficult as fuck to copy.

    Actually, I'd say that. You might not be aware that Phillips and Sony still make beaucoup bucks from licensing the Red Book standard to consumer electronics companies. The RIAA would have to scrap the entire CD format, and they are in no position to do so. What you're describing isn't a CD - it's a brand new format. How would you convince consumer electronic companies to adopt it?

    Besides, someone already mentioned the analog hole, and there's no fixing that.

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    but what if you're a beatmaker? You can't really tour then...

    MAKE HOTTER BEATS AND RESIGN YOURSELF TO MAKING LESS MONEY THAN TIMBERLAND, JUST BLAZE, KANYE WEST AND EVEN ALCHEMIST.

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    What you're describing isn't a CD - it's a brand new format. How would you convince consumer electronic companies to adopt it?

    the same fucking way they convinced us vinyl was no longer the format of choice. Just stop making the shit like the syrofoam box for hamburgers, 8 track tapes, cassettes, laser discs, betas, 9-pin printer cables, floppy discs, et al. Just discontinue making the fucking thing if "protecting intellectual property" is really their concern. it's really a case of - if you want music, here's the only way we're gonna sell it to you and yeah you have to buy new shit, but it's not like we haven't convinced you of doing that before.

    you really think analog copies of CD's will be the move? no one's saying piracy will ever end, but don't make it our responsiblity to be honest injuns.

  • OK I'm back you birches


    somebody said you gotta make your $$ touring and merchandising.

    as an artist, true, that is a significant part of your income. but yo, there really was a time when record sales were part of your income. there was a time when labels, and artists, made money.

    nobody's whining about having their cake and eating it too. Across the board, labels, distributors, retailers, most of them don't even have a cake. they're all cutting costs, cutting employees, restructuring.

    you really can't say that downloading doesn't hurt sales. it may have some marketing value. But I never paid for anything I could get for free. and you really can't say that I have nothing to complain about. people. stole. my. shit.... period. and those people aren't gonna buy it. I (and many others) have been wronged. seems like legitimate cause for complaint

    As we spoke, a new google alert pointed me to a new, overseas blogger/bootlegger..

  • people are not going to buy a product that they have to jump through hoops to use. the reason why the itunes store and others have been so successful is that you setup an account and then hit buy and the shit is on your computer.

    true -- but when you buy a TV episode, you can't rip it right? you can only watch it on your computer. you can't burn it.

    music, you can burn it or send it to a million people. I don't know, why is that acceptable for TV shows but not for music? like its our God-given right to bootleg music..

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    true -- but when you buy a TV episode, you can't rip it right? you can only watch it on your computer. you can't burn it.
    if you purchased it from something like the itunes store, you have restrictions on where you can view it and cant really freely distribute it(im not really sure on specifics.) but it's the same thing with the music files you purchase from them also.

    music, you can burn it or send it to a million people. I don't know, why is that acceptable for TV shows but not for music? like its our God-given right to bootleg music..
    if i were to convert a cd to mp3, i would be able to distribute it to a million people. if i were convert a dvd to a video file, i would be able to do the same thing. the ONLY reason why movies aren't pirated nearly as much is because the files are significantly larger than a music album. sorry, but this comparision really doesn't work too well.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    people are not going to buy a product that they have to jump through hoops to use. the reason why the itunes store and others have been so successful is that you setup an account and then hit buy and the shit is on your computer.

    true -- but when you buy a TV episode, you can't rip it right? you can only watch it on your computer. you can't burn it.

    music, you can burn it or send it to a million people. I don't know, why is that acceptable for TV shows but not for music? like its our God-given right to bootleg music..

    Sure you can burn a TV episode. ANY kind of digital media can be replicated so long as you get by the DRM.

    The only reason why TV and movie bootlegging isn't as common as songs is just technological capacity. If broadband got to the point where downloading gigabytes was how it is to download megabytes now, coupled with an exponential growth in storage capacity (which is already under way), it's quite likely that ALL digital media - including video games, movies, etc. will follow the direction music has.

    I'm not sure what this means except that, in a few years, I think this conversation is going to cover a whole lot more ground.

  • well you guys seem to be more technically savvy than me.

    all I know is, I dont know anyone that can rip a TV episode from iTunes. which I'd love to know, cuz I hate watching Lost on my comp.

    na dude its REAL easy to rip a music file from iTunes and send it anywhere. yeah, my main point is, possible or not, people really aren't doing it too much with movies and video games.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    yeah, my main point is, possible or not, people really aren't doing it too much with movies and video games.
    yeah but the only reason why it's like that is because it takes longer to download a video game or movie and it's much more complicated to create a digital file of either of them compared to just hitting "rip cd" in itunes. this directly relates to my point about convenience for consumers. best believe that if it was as easy to copy video games or movies as it is with cds that shit would be more rampant.

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    people are not going to buy a product that they have to jump through hoops to use. the reason why the itunes store and others have been so successful is that you setup an account and then hit buy and the shit is on your computer.

    true -- but when you buy a TV episode, you can't rip it right? you can only watch it on your computer. you can't burn it.

    music, you can burn it or send it to a million people. I don't know, why is that acceptable for TV shows but not for music? like its our God-given right to bootleg music..

    Sure you can burn a TV episode. ANY kind of digital media can be replicated so long as you get by the DRM.

    The only reason why TV and movie bootlegging isn't as common as songs is just technological capacity. If broadband got to the point where downloading gigabytes was how it is to download megabytes now, coupled with an exponential growth in storage capacity (which is already under way), it's quite likely that ALL digital media - including video games, movies, etc. will follow the direction music has.

    I'm not sure what this means except that, in a few years, I think this conversation is going to cover a whole lot more ground.

    No actually Broadban is there. I can DL movies and TV shows within 20 minutes... Just set it up and let it run. The issue is that the Music Industry jumped on board late. That was the first mistake.

    By the time the Majors (that always dictate the change in media) figured out that Downloading was actually going to hurt their bottom line that is when they stepped in. Ignoring the trading of MP3s, their next mistake was even bigger than late entry into the game and that was they licensed their content out to stores... This is/was a major foul up on their part because they now let the technology dictate the format that the music was going to be distributed in instead of the Majors deciding on a format for it to be distributed in. what this has done is completely fractured their buying audience... Do they buy iTunes tracks? Do they buy WMAs? do they buy Real Audio? or do they just keep trading music (MP3's). Well since MP3's are the only format that is really cross compatible between Operating Systems and Media players (not talking about heavy WAV files), there is no reason for consumers to make that change to DRM formatted files.

    Add onto these problems that the industry itself has not kept up the "quality" of the music it has released and you have alot of consumers that used to buy full CDs ($10-$18 a pop) for a single that was on the radio are now only buying the singles on an iTunes type retailer or else just downloading the one track they want. Why buy a CD that most likely you are not going to want for one song?

    The industry has to backtrack and do a few things to at least partially correct itself if it wants to make money on digital content.

    1. It needs to stop with the album deals... Single deals only and once enough singles are cut then an album is dropped with some bonus tracks.

    2. They need to pull back COLLECTIVELY all of the content that they have licensed to iTunes, Windows, Real etc. and have a unique Digital format that has very tightknit DRM capabilities similar to Movie and TV DRMs which are very strict (only 3-4 machines and some only for a limited amount of time) and is cross platform. They need to make the hardware manufacturers support the music DRM if they want to have all of the Major label catalogs able to work on their systems.

    Those are two steps. of course there is a lot more and most likely none of this will happen only because the Music Industry is so entrenched in the old way of doing business that even suggesting a broad change like this would be enough to give people a heart attack.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    No actually Broadban is there. I can DL movies and TV shows within 20 minutes...

    Dude, hep me. The *cough cough* methods I use are fast but not 20 minutes fast (not for a DVD quality rip. Maybe a XVID or VCD though).




  • No actually Broadban is there. I can DL movies and TV shows within 20 minutes... Just set it up and let it run. The issue is that the Music Industry jumped on board late. That was the first mistake.

    By the time the Majors (that always dictate the change in media) figured out that Downloading was actually going to hurt their bottom line that is when they stepped in. Ignoring the trading of MP3s, their next mistake was even bigger than late entry into the game and that was they licensed their content out to stores... This is/was a major foul up on their part because they now let the technology dictate the format that the music was going to be distributed in instead of the Majors deciding on a format for it to be distributed in. what this has done is completely fractured their buying audience... Do they buy iTunes tracks? Do they buy WMAs? do they buy Real Audio? or do they just keep trading music (MP3's). Well since MP3's are the only format that is really cross compatible between Operating Systems and Media players (not talking about heavy WAV files), there is no reason for consumers to make that change to DRM formatted files.

    Add onto these problems that the industry itself has not kept up the "quality" of the music it has released and you have alot of consumers that used to buy full CDs ($10-$18 a pop) for a single that was on the radio are now only buying the singles on an iTunes type retailer or else just downloading the one track they want. Why buy a CD that most likely you are not going to want for one song?

    The industry has to backtrack and do a few things to at least partially correct itself if it wants to make money on digital content.

    1. It needs to stop with the album deals... Single deals only and once enough singles are cut then an album is dropped with some bonus tracks.

    2. They need to pull back COLLECTIVELY all of the content that they have licensed to iTunes, Windows, Real etc. and have a unique Digital format that has very tightknit DRM capabilities similar to Movie and TV DRMs which are very strict (only 3-4 machines and some only for a limited amount of time) and is cross platform. They need to make the hardware manufacturers support the music DRM if they want to have all of the Major label catalogs able to work on their systems.

    Those are two steps. of course there is a lot more and most likely none of this will happen only because the Music Industry is so entrenched in the old way of doing business that even suggesting a broad change like this would be enough to give people a heart attack.


    shit, that sounds like a plan my man.

    I think the Majors definitely would listen to this. They are in fact "restructuring" right now and in desperate need of new ideas.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,896 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

    FIOS is ur friend...

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

    FIOS is not my friend because motherfucking AT&T won't let Verizon come over and play.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,896 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

    FIOS is not my friend because motherfucking AT&T won't let Verizon come over and play.

    Bastards...


    Back to the topic. The whole notion that copy protection will somehow save the industry is fucked. Someone will always hack it. And DRM is pretty pointless. You will never have the consumer fully adopt it. IMO, DRM is what has been holding the online music boom back from reaching wayyy higher numbers. When you hear music sales are down, it's kinda a bullshit number. Because the distribution of online music is so limited and restricted.




    Also, I would just like to add, that it's not illegal for us Canadians to download any music... Stop making me feel like I'm doing something wronggggggg




  • HAZHAZ 3,376 Posts
    Downloading killed it all. I don't even buy bootlegs anymore. Just DL things. I did buy the Sean Price because I support music I like, but I don't buy any rap mixtapes & most records like the Nas lp. dl'ing must be changing the retail/online game, too. Last week, I got the Dooly-O lp, an Edan ep, & Sean Price's Monkey Bars lp for less than 10 bucks on ebay. All new & sealed. There is not one record store that specializes in new hip hop releases in my city. They've all gone bust in the last 3 years. Sign of things to come?

  • dgriotdgriot 388 Posts
    of course there are, but DVDs & video games have encryption blocks by country and/or territory and you don't see them whining aobut their sales.

    I think the fact that several DVDs (I think Sideways was one) came with unskippable promo spots about piracy would constitute whining to some degree. I think the movie industry has done its share of whining, but not so much about piracy. It has more to do with the realization that the gap between the home theater and movie theater is lessening, and once you buy the DVD/Blu-Ray/whatever, you can only be charged once for unlimited viewings. They'll probably ramp up piracy adverts once broadband in the US steps up, though.

    But yeah, I think video game piracy is a comparatively small issue due to the relative difficulty. For PC games, you're usually SOL for online play on pirated games. And for consoles, it usually requires flashing the drive, buying extra hardware, etc. - not worth the hassle for most people.

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.


    Illegally? through torrents you can, though for the most part no.


    Legally YOU DEFINATELY can... i do it all the time.

    http://www.cinemanow.com invested in by Microsoft, Lions Gate, among others

    http://www.vongo.com Starz recently launched download/subscription site

    Both have dedicated download networks that 90% of the time are giving me DVD quality movies in about 20 minutes.

    PS. I use CinemaNow over Vongo as its been around longer and is more relaiable than Vongo. CN consistently gives me downloads in 20 minutes. Plus they have Burn to DVD.

  • 33thirdcom33thirdcom 2,049 Posts
    you aren't going to download dvd quality rips of anything within 20 minutes and that's more on the US broadband infrastructure than anything

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

    FIOS is not my friend because motherfucking AT&T won't let Verizon come over and play.

    Bastards...


    Back to the topic. The whole notion that copy protection will somehow save the industry is fucked. Someone will always hack it. And DRM is pretty pointless. You will never have the consumer fully adopt it. IMO, DRM is what has been holding the online music boom back from reaching wayyy higher numbers. When you hear music sales are down, it's kinda a bullshit number. Because the distribution of online music is so limited and restricted.




    Also, I would just like to add, that it's not illegal for us Canadians to download any music... Stop making me feel like I'm doing something wronggggggg





    Its not going to save the industry. To think that is living in a fantasy land. However most consumers that are interested in music for the most part wold rather pay for it than deal with anything that could be skewed as illegal. Especially with older consumers. You will always have piracy and trading happening however the key is to give people a reason to download the DRM version, there has to be an advantage.

    If no hardware manufacturers support MP3 or only very expensive players supported MP3 formats but they all supoprted the Music DRM format you would have a fairly fast shift to the new DRM. But to do this would require a very long plannign period and cooperation between the device and content creators which realistically would not happen. And again this also is mostly the fault of the music industry for being short-sighted and licensing product instead of creating a new speciic product.

    And I don't necessarily support alot of this but I have given it alot of thought with people I know in music and on the device end. And its been the only way i can see the industry at least partially gaining some profitability. I don' see their sales ever hitting the figures they did a few years ago again.

  • yoigotbeatsyoigotbeats 1,667 Posts
    I'm just really happy that a thread about the woes of bootlegging has turned into a thread about how to cop more ish!!!

  • pjl2000xlpjl2000xl 1,795 Posts
    i know right? You can basically get anything off the net if you are resourceful. I would like to say i dont download, but im currently a struggling producer myself, so i dont have 12.99 to go and drop on some mediocre album. Thats the way i see it. I love buying records and copping new shit on wax, but my budget doesn't allow it at the moment so you bet im going to be bootlegging all your shit until my money gets right.

    The funny thing though is i got the new jesus price superstar the clean version, from the labels promo squad. So basically your own company is bootlegging its own shit. Granted its for radio play, but still i got a free copy now.

    You got to take the good though with the bad. The good is that you have a lot more recognition now in terms of exposure. Ten times more people are hearing your shit and talking about it. But the bad is that your aren't getting paid for it. So you have to compromise. Maybe by this happening, it will lead to bigger production projects in the long run.

  • i know right? You can basically get anything off the net if you are resourceful. I would like to say i dont download, but im currently a struggling producer myself, so i dont have 12.99 to go and drop on some mediocre album. Thats the way i see it. I love buying records and copping new shit on wax, but my budget doesn't allow it at the moment so you bet im going to be bootlegging all your shit until my money gets right.

    So, you are the reason that people like you don't succeed. You are the cause, and the effect.

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,896 Posts


    Its not going to save the industry. To think that is living in a fantasy land. However most consumers that are interested in music for the most part wold rather pay for it than deal with anything that could be skewed as illegal. Especially with older consumers. You will always have piracy and trading happening however the key is to give people a reason to download the DRM version, there has to be an advantage.

    If no hardware manufacturers support MP3 or only very expensive players supported MP3 formats but they all supoprted the Music DRM format you would have a fairly fast shift to the new DRM. But to do this would require a very long plannign period and cooperation between the device and content creators which realistically would not happen. And again this also is mostly the fault of the music industry for being short-sighted and licensing product instead of creating a new speciic product.

    And I don't necessarily support alot of this but I have given it alot of thought with people I know in music and on the device end. And its been the only way i can see the industry at least partially gaining some profitability. I don' see their sales ever hitting the figures they did a few years ago again.

    The thing is. Does any type of DRM stop piracy? And the answer will always be no. All DRM does is restricted the consumer from allowing them to use the product any way they wish. If I download a groups record, I don't wanna hear that I can only listen to the album on what device the RIAA states I can listen to it on. If the RIAA had their way, you would have to pay as many times as possible to play the same song on different devices. And this is wrong.

    Could you imagine the TV industry making it so you could only watch TV shows on certain brands of TV's?
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