I just read in the paper that sales for hip hop were down 21 % in 2006 & that there was no rap album in top ten sales for 06. Is this truth or someone playing with the numbers?
I just read in the paper that sales for hip hop were down 21 % in 2006 & that there was no rap album in top ten sales for 06. Is this truth or someone playing with the numbers?
That is the truth.
Emile is right though, this is not at all new. As a matter of fact back in the 90s people were complaining about mixtapes (actual cassettes) messing up album sales, shit like "One For All" not selling as much and other well-regarded LPs because people were buying the tapes at clothing shops, record shops, weed spots, incense stands, wherever... loading up on the tapes but not the albums. The more that rap went back to being singles-dominated and the more that the record industry discouraged the rap album format (crappy single vinyl, promo-only if issued at all) the more people copped the tapes rather than the whole joint.
This is the game, and those who are playing it right are still winning.
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
I just read in the paper that sales for hip hop were down 21 % in 2006 & that there was no rap album in top ten sales for 06. Is this truth or someone playing with the numbers?
That is the truth.
Emile is right though, this is not at all new. As a matter of fact back in the 90s people were complaining about mixtapes (actual cassettes) messing up album sales, shit like "One For All" not selling as much and other well-regarded LPs because people were buying the tapes at clothing shops, record shops, weed spots, incense stands, wherever... loading up on the tapes but not the albums. The more that rap went back to being singles-dominated and the more that the record industry discouraged the rap album format (crappy single vinyl, promo-only if issued at all) the more people copped the tapes rather than the whole joint.
This is the game, and those who are playing it right are still winning.
This is some interesting info. Does anyone think with the sales being what they are that we're witnessing the downsizing of hip hop? Will the numbers in '07 be better?
I just read in the paper that sales for hip hop were down 21 % in 2006 & that there was no rap album in top ten sales for 06. Is this truth or someone playing with the numbers?
That is the truth.
Emile is right though, this is not at all new. As a matter of fact back in the 90s people were complaining about mixtapes (actual cassettes) messing up album sales, shit like "One For All" not selling as much and other well-regarded LPs because people were buying the tapes at clothing shops, record shops, weed spots, incense stands, wherever... loading up on the tapes but not the albums. The more that rap went back to being singles-dominated and the more that the record industry discouraged the rap album format (crappy single vinyl, promo-only if issued at all) the more people copped the tapes rather than the whole joint.
This is the game, and those who are playing it right are still winning.
This is some interesting info. Does anyone think with the sales being what they are that we're witnessing the downsizing of hip hop? Will the numbers in '07 be better?
Yes its the downsizing of hip-hop. If no number one singles are coming out of it and the sales are decreasing on top of that then the budgets are going to shrink. Supply and demand. 07 looks to be a return to the indie releases and I think its most likely going to follow the route that indie rock has created where alot of indie bands are getting deals and picked up due to a music consumer that spends more time researching what they like via downloading etc.
Again indie or commercial it just has to be good music that appeals to people. I think the average consumer is done with music that is thrown at them by majors to see what sticks.
I just read in the paper that sales for hip hop were down 21 % in 2006 & that there was no rap album in top ten sales for 06. Is this truth or someone playing with the numbers?
That is the truth.
Emile is right though, this is not at all new. As a matter of fact back in the 90s people were complaining about mixtapes (actual cassettes) messing up album sales, shit like "One For All" not selling as much and other well-regarded LPs because people were buying the tapes at clothing shops, record shops, weed spots, incense stands, wherever... loading up on the tapes but not the albums. The more that rap went back to being singles-dominated and the more that the record industry discouraged the rap album format (crappy single vinyl, promo-only if issued at all) the more people copped the tapes rather than the whole joint.
This is the game, and those who are playing it right are still winning.
This is some interesting info. Does anyone think with the sales being what they are that we're witnessing the downsizing of hip hop? Will the numbers in '07 be better?
Yes its the downsizing of hip-hop. If no number one singles are coming out of it and the sales are decreasing on top of that then the budgets are going to shrink. Supply and demand. 07 looks to be a return to the indie releases and I think its most likely going to follow the route that indie rock has created where alot of indie bands are getting deals and picked up due to a music consumer that spends more time researching what they like via downloading etc.
Again indie or commercial it just has to be good music that appeals to people. I think the average consumer is done with music that is thrown at them by majors to see what sticks.
there will always be high school students willing to listen to what is thrown at them and i feel like they represent a large portion of those buying CDs today. Of course i could be completely wrong because i am strictly going off of my notion.
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Right - I was going to add, parents copping CDs for kids too young to d/l.
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
Post it, dog. I don't care. For real.
-e
Oh. This was the moment where your angry tears were supposed to short out your 'puter.
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Right - I was going to add, parents copping CDs for kids too young to d/l.
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Right - I was going to add, parents copping CDs for kids too young to d/l.
I study The Game A LOT.
And like Chad, do you feel "like you already know him"?
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Right - I was going to add, parents copping CDs for kids too young to d/l.
I study The Game A LOT.
And like Chad, do you feel "like you already know him"?
Yeah, that just happened.
Look, there is no need to come at me all personal like that.
I am just trying to give you some knowledge of the game for when you start rapping again. You could be investing in plastic surgery, female hormones and a doctored birth certificate right now instead of talking slick to me on the internet.
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
Matt/33.3 can probably speak to it better but I think the only people still buying CDs in any significant number is the 30 and up set. High school and college kids these days download it all, even if they pay first.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Exactly... Older peoples still buy CDs but they seem to be looking more for the classics or comps/best of. We do alot of commercial CDs too, but again its definately an over 20 crowd but under 30 crowd and part of it has to do with our proximity almost next to one of the most popular Jamaican restaurants in LA and usually its for whatever track(s) are on the radio. The kids? they will buy indie stuff but thats about it. All are walking in with Zunes (ha yes Zunes) or iPods.
Some younger girls do still buy CDs and I think that is more for the artwork because it has so and so on the cover/insert.
CDs have always been a somewhat disposable medium. The way I see it the Majors are screwed and Indies are gold if they can actually figure out a good business plan with good music/touring/and merch.
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
Post it, dog. I don't care. For real.
-e
does your label care??
I???m not sure how this is relevant at all and isn???t just a last ditch effort to make an argument that has very little validity.
A. My personal business philosophy does not necessarily need to parallel the business philosophy of my ???label.??? If dude gets upset, I???m not sure how that affects the points I???m making. It may just mean he???s as stuck in this fictitious past (where records were lucrative) as the rest of y???all.
B. I am quite sure dude wouldn???t care since nobody expected to make a hell of a lot of money off this record anyway. Dude just wanted to sell enough to break even and we???ve already sold enough of the records for that to be a reality. Certainly downloading hasn???t affected the buying habits of consumers to the point that people can???t break even when pressing up a couple thousand records. If you???re really curious about his opinion on the matter, I can ask for you, but I don???t get the sense that you actually care.
As stated earlier in this thread, the reality of the music business is that very few people make very much money off of their products alone. Yes, technology has made this even more clear for a lot of people who feel like downloads are taking substantial amounts of money out of their pockets, but the reality of the music industry for the past decade (and probably the past two or three decades) is that actual music products ain???t where the money is being made???at least for the actual artists. Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
I really don???t see this new brand of ???bootlegging??? having serious effects on artists though, whether we???re talking about indy artists or major label artists. Artists like the Living Legends who have built up successful independent music careers will continue to sell CDs at shows just as local artists that built core audiences in their towns like Slim Thug will continue to do so as well. Yeah maybe the Jay-Zs of the world aren???t going to go 7 times Platinum anymore, but all that means is that a lot of labels are going to have re-evaluate their budgets and perhaps even give their artists better deals before they run off to labels like Koch Records that are doing quite well with a different business plan.
I can't help but think that there is a future in HYPEBEAST releases. If the music is packaged as a collectible & you attach some cache to it, there's prolly some cash to be had.
Sickamore from xxl actually made a really good post about the state of the rap game business-wise recently that you guys should all really check out. One of the things he said is that its probably the best time ever to be an independent artist.
You can cry all you want about "boot leggin'" and downloading, but it's a reality so you either deal with it and find new ways to make money within the current climate (namely, performances) or you continue bitching for ever.
This is just how the game is now. Deal with it.
-e
Hey Emynd, i have your White Tees & White Belts EP with me right now. I will post it here in a minute, I guess you wouldn't mind since it's for promo only, would you ?
Post it, dog. I don't care. For real.
-e
does your label care??
I???m not sure how this is relevant at all and isn???t just a last ditch effort to make an argument that has very little validity.
A. My personal business philosophy does not necessarily need to parallel the business philosophy of my ???label.??? If dude gets upset, I???m not sure how that affects the points I???m making. It may just mean he???s as stuck in this fictitious past (where records were lucrative) as the rest of y???all.
B. I am quite sure dude wouldn???t care since nobody expected to make a hell of a lot of money off this record anyway. Dude just wanted to sell enough to break even and we???ve already sold enough of the records for that to be a reality. Certainly downloading hasn???t affected the buying habits of consumers to the point that people can???t break even when pressing up a couple thousand records. If you???re really curious about his opinion on the matter, I can ask for you, but I don???t get the sense that you actually care.
As stated earlier in this thread, the reality of the music business is that very few people make very much money off of their products alone. Yes, technology has made this even more clear for a lot of people who feel like downloads are taking substantial amounts of money out of their pockets, but the reality of the music industry for the past decade (and probably the past two or three decades) is that actual music products ain???t where the money is being made???at least for the actual artists. Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
I really don???t see this new brand of ???bootlegging??? having serious effects on artists though, whether we???re talking about indy artists or major label artists. Artists like the Living Legends who have built up successful independent music careers will continue to sell CDs at shows just as local artists that built core audiences in their towns like Slim Thug will continue to do so as well. Yeah maybe the Jay-Zs of the world aren???t going to go 7 times Platinum anymore, but all that means is that a lot of labels are going to have re-evaluate their budgets and perhaps even give their artists better deals before they run off to labels like Koch Records that are doing quite well with a different business plan.
-e
Not trying to make an arguement, dude. Nor am I saying that your philosophy should parallel your label's (although I imagine if your label wasn't cool with it and you were encouraging it, that may cause some problems). I'm just curious. Presumably your label made the initial investment and has the most to lose so they may have a strong opinion about it. If flamin hotz didn't expect to make a lot of money, that's great. Dude's obviously not trying to support himself selling records. People start labels for different reasons.
The whole downloading game has made it much tougher. Period. And seeing your product downloaded and praised all over the internet while sales are slow has got to be a shitty feeling. It's hard to say how much, but it definitely is money out of your pocket.
Labels and artists used to be able to count on sales. Now a lot of them can't. And certain styles and genres aren't necessarily known for their money-making tours to make up for the difference...As a DJ, you obviously can count on performances and tours and your record seems to be more of a promotional tool for that...
But who is gonna pay to see an artist like Ayatollah play beats on stage?
btw - congrats on selling out the record. And rip DC tonight! Wish I were there.
Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
-e
artists aren't exploited. thats a myth.
they enter into a contract freely, of their own will. any deal theyre a part of, they freely authorized with full knowledge of the content.
and the label made the investment, and took all the risk.
artists are like chicks that try to get you to buy them stuff, so you buy er diamonds and shit and then HOPE you get rewarded.
Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
-e
artists aren't exploited. thats a myth.
they enter into a contract freely, of their own will. any deal theyre a part of, they freely authorized with full knowledge of the content.
Yeah, there really is no such thing as an exploitive contract, and every subclause of every contract is readily understandable to every artist.
Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
-e
artists aren't exploited. thats a myth.
they enter into a contract freely, of their own will. any deal theyre a part of, they freely authorized with full knowledge of the content.
Yeah, there really is no such thing as an exploitive contract, and every subclause of every contract is readily understandable to every artist.
dude. no sympathy for dumb artists. don't sign shit you don't understand.
thats why theres a clause that says "this contract is executed with the full and complete understanding of both parties.." (paraphrase).
anyone who is truly "tricked" into signing something, or forced -- that renders the contract void.
And more often than not, labels deal with artists fairly. Like most businesses, you are short sighted if you think screwing people will get you ahead. There may be instances of labels screwing artists, but for the most part, the industry is structured in a way shaped by natural market forces, and it couldn't really be any other way. in general.
The market forces today are the 21% drop in sales we mentioned earlier. Which means every industry-related business from labels to distributors to retailers (Tower) is taking a big hit.
Any re-structuring that happens now, will most likely be a pay cut for every link in the chain, with possibly some "links" being eliminated entirely.
unless you guys got a better idea(?). which would be good.
Comments
That is the truth.
Emile is right though, this is not at all new. As a matter of fact back in the 90s people were complaining about mixtapes (actual cassettes) messing up album sales, shit like "One For All" not selling as much and other well-regarded LPs because people were buying the tapes at clothing shops, record shops, weed spots, incense stands, wherever... loading up on the tapes but not the albums. The more that rap went back to being singles-dominated and the more that the record industry discouraged the rap album format (crappy single vinyl, promo-only if issued at all) the more people copped the tapes rather than the whole joint.
This is the game, and those who are playing it right are still winning.
This is some interesting info. Does anyone think with the sales being what they are that we're witnessing the downsizing of hip hop? Will the numbers in '07 be better?
Yes its the downsizing of hip-hop. If no number one singles are coming out of it and the sales are decreasing on top of that then the budgets are going to shrink. Supply and demand. 07 looks to be a return to the indie releases and I think its most likely going to follow the route that indie rock has created where alot of indie bands are getting deals and picked up due to a music consumer that spends more time researching what they like via downloading etc.
Again indie or commercial it just has to be good music that appeals to people. I think the average consumer is done with music that is thrown at them by majors to see what sticks.
there will always be high school students willing to listen to what is thrown at them and i feel like they represent a large portion of those buying CDs today. Of course i could be completely wrong because i am strictly going off of my notion.
It's the people who grew up with CDs, or were old enough to have grown up with vinyl, that will still consider physical albums a viable medium going forward. Anyone who grew up with MP3s is going to look at CDs like 8 Tracks in 10 years.
My .02.
Really young people, too, I think. Like 8 years young--hence Bow Wow outselling more popular acts.
Right - I was going to add, parents copping CDs for kids too young to d/l.
Post it, dog. I don't care. For real.
-e
Oh. This was the moment where your angry tears were supposed to short out your 'puter.
I study the game A LOT.
And like Chad, do you feel "like you already know him"?
Yeah, that just happened.
Look, there is no need to come at me all personal like that.
I am just trying to give you some knowledge of the game for when you start rapping again. You could be investing in plastic surgery, female hormones and a doctored birth certificate right now instead of talking slick to me on the internet.
does your label care??
I think when The Game was talking about turning this "into a stripper club", he meant something else.
i love this. someone gremlinize it.
Exactly... Older peoples still buy CDs but they seem to be looking more for the classics or comps/best of. We do alot of commercial CDs too, but again its definately an over 20 crowd but under 30 crowd and part of it has to do with our proximity almost next to one of the most popular Jamaican restaurants in LA and usually its for whatever track(s) are on the radio. The kids? they will buy indie stuff but thats about it. All are walking in with Zunes (ha yes Zunes) or iPods.
Some younger girls do still buy CDs and I think that is more for the artwork because it has so and so on the cover/insert.
CDs have always been a somewhat disposable medium. The way I see it the Majors are screwed and Indies are gold if they can actually figure out a good business plan with good music/touring/and merch.
I???m not sure how this is relevant at all and isn???t just a last ditch effort to make an argument that has very little validity.
A. My personal business philosophy does not necessarily need to parallel the business philosophy of my ???label.??? If dude gets upset, I???m not sure how that affects the points I???m making. It may just mean he???s as stuck in this fictitious past (where records were lucrative) as the rest of y???all.
B. I am quite sure dude wouldn???t care since nobody expected to make a hell of a lot of money off this record anyway. Dude just wanted to sell enough to break even and we???ve already sold enough of the records for that to be a reality. Certainly downloading hasn???t affected the buying habits of consumers to the point that people can???t break even when pressing up a couple thousand records. If you???re really curious about his opinion on the matter, I can ask for you, but I don???t get the sense that you actually care.
As stated earlier in this thread, the reality of the music business is that very few people make very much money off of their products alone. Yes, technology has made this even more clear for a lot of people who feel like downloads are taking substantial amounts of money out of their pockets, but the reality of the music industry for the past decade (and probably the past two or three decades) is that actual music products ain???t where the money is being made???at least for the actual artists. Surely some record labels are floundering, but fuck them. As far as I???m concerned, they deserve to flounder for exploiting artists the way they have.
I really don???t see this new brand of ???bootlegging??? having serious effects on artists though, whether we???re talking about indy artists or major label artists. Artists like the Living Legends who have built up successful independent music careers will continue to sell CDs at shows just as local artists that built core audiences in their towns like Slim Thug will continue to do so as well. Yeah maybe the Jay-Zs of the world aren???t going to go 7 times Platinum anymore, but all that means is that a lot of labels are going to have re-evaluate their budgets and perhaps even give their artists better deals before they run off to labels like Koch Records that are doing quite well with a different business plan.
-e
Update!
Just found out today that the label is sold out of our record. So, um, yeah, my label doesn't care if the shit gets posted.
-e
Not trying to make an arguement, dude. Nor am I saying that your philosophy should parallel your label's (although I imagine if your label wasn't cool with it and you were encouraging it, that may cause some problems). I'm just curious. Presumably your label made the initial investment and has the most to lose so they may have a strong opinion about it. If flamin hotz didn't expect to make a lot of money, that's great. Dude's obviously not trying to support himself selling records. People start labels for different reasons.
The whole downloading game has made it much tougher. Period. And seeing your product downloaded and praised all over the internet while sales are slow has got to be a shitty feeling. It's hard to say how much, but it definitely is money out of your pocket.
Labels and artists used to be able to count on sales. Now a lot of them can't. And certain styles and genres aren't necessarily known for their money-making tours to make up for the difference...As a DJ, you obviously can count on performances and tours and your record seems to be more of a promotional tool for that...
But who is gonna pay to see an artist like Ayatollah play beats on stage?
btw - congrats on selling out the record. And rip DC tonight! Wish I were there.
artists aren't exploited. thats a myth.
they enter into a contract freely, of their own will. any deal theyre a part of, they freely authorized with full knowledge of the content.
and the label made the investment, and took all the risk.
artists are like chicks that try to get you to buy them stuff, so you buy er diamonds and shit and then HOPE you get rewarded.
Yeah, there really is no such thing as an exploitive contract, and every subclause of every contract is readily understandable to every artist.
dude. no sympathy for dumb artists. don't sign shit you don't understand.
thats why theres a clause that says "this contract is executed with the full and complete understanding of both parties.." (paraphrase).
anyone who is truly "tricked" into signing something, or forced -- that renders the contract void.
The market forces today are the 21% drop in sales we mentioned earlier. Which means every industry-related business from labels to distributors to retailers (Tower) is taking a big hit.
Any re-structuring that happens now, will most likely be a pay cut for every link in the chain, with possibly some "links" being eliminated entirely.
unless you guys got a better idea(?). which would be good.