THE AGRUMENT AGAINST FREE HEALTH INSURANCE IS????

davidwingatedavidwingate 748 Posts
edited February 2007 in Strut Central
The cost for health insurance in NYC for a healthy single male who doesn't smoke is $500 a month....this is the cheapest plan by the way! To me that shit is ludicrous!!! On my current salary, I could never afford that at all. In addition, I "make too much" to receive discount health insurance in NYC. Again, ludicrous!!! What I want to know is why are so many of our polictians and Americans in general against free health insurance for all American citizens? I mean to me it just doesn't make sense to do otherwise. Thoughts please!Amir
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  Comments


  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    It's an obvious step towards socialism and this is America damnit!

  • d_wordd_word 666 Posts
    The most legitimate argument against is that it'll be complicated. Established organizations with strong political pull stand in the way. Restructuring health care would be costly and run into opposition and unpredictable problems.

    Hillary knows this.

    I mean, I'd support efforts for universal health care anywhere - but it won't be easy. They did something workable in Vermont and Massachusetts, at least. Good luck.

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    It's an obvious step towards socialism and this is America damnit!

    pretty much the only argument I've ever heard on this.

    I'm guessing there are some powerful drug company lobbyists involved all over this issue

  • my sister works for a decently sized ad company and she only has medical but no dental. She makes 6 figures yet her company cant spring for dental coverage? NYC what gives?

    just a thought though... maybe you can organize a group of working dj's who do not have coverage, call yourself a company and get some sort of group rate/premiums? I dont know what the legality of that is but something to think about or find more about?

    good luck.

    -rich

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    It's an obvious step towards socialism and this is America damnit!

    Seriously, just about every right-wing anti-government health care stance boils down to this. I wish I were joking about that, but I'm not.

  • Yes, this is America and we need to take care of our own. We are suppose to be the leaders of the world and we cannot even provide proper healthcare for all our citizens. The socialist answer is a cop out. I think that the socialist answer to this question is without doubt just plain dumb...by the way, I am not calling you (Motown) dumb. I just think that there are millions of Americans suffering from bad health and cannot afford health insurance to do that much about it. Many older americans suffer even more...morally I think the way things are being done now is so wrong. Wanting free healthcare for all Americans doesn't make one a socialist, but just a good human being!

    Amir

  • my main argument is this. imagine there was free health care. and the government picked up the tab. does anyone here honestly think they wouldnt lowball everyone on services? has anyone here ever been to county hospital? just imagine that FOR EVERYONE.

    now, mind you, in a perfect society, i do believe in free health care. but this is far from perfect, yes?

    i would love for it to work. but i have very little faith in the government

  • doesnt canada have free health care? How do they do it?

  • some european strutters need to speak up. ive heard mixed blessings.
    dental horror stories in england. nerve ending switcheroos in italy.
    but in the long run, people have the security of being covered without the gigantic wallet hit that happens in america. in america, a long hospital stay can wipe out six figures of savings. wtf!
    my old girls parents dont pay health insurance and fly to costa rica to get operations!

    with the obesity epidemic spreading rapidly,expect every aspect of health care in this country to be under siege in the coming years. everyone will pay.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Yes, this is America and we need to take care of our own.

    In 2006 approximately 75% of the children born at the public John Peter Smith Hospital in Fort Worth, Texas were born to "undocumented citizen" parents and were paid for by taxpayer $$$.

  • again, we are suppose to be the leaders of the world...we are able to do all sorts of things, but cannot afford to pay for healthcare for all americans??? Besides, chaos doesn't reign in the the countries of Europe who have free health insurance for all their citizens. I mean we(america) are planning a trip to Mars in about 20 years or so. According to some, it may at least 3 or 4 trillion dollars to do this..fuck dat! Also we are spending our money on something that is dividing our country..you cannot tell me that free healthcare will cost more than the war in Irag or the probable war in Iran???? Just doesn't compute. If others around the world can do then we can def. do it too!

  • JimBeamJimBeam Seattle. 2,012 Posts
    i just got back from the dentist, with no MAJOR issues, and it looks like my next visit will cost me $600 (that I don't have) which my (supposedly) good insurance will not cover (the total being about $1500)... And I know I'm still gettin away relatively easy on this one.

    When they start discussing costs of treatments, it puts you in an environment not unlike a used car dealer's. It's absolute bullshit. The practices of medical and dental care are out of control in this country. All of the elective bullshit that they push on you wouldn't be an issue if medical coverage were offered to all. What happens in situations like mine is an instant skepticism and lack of respect for doctors who come across like they are more concerned about their profit than my health. It makes me sick (npi).

  • for clarification, i am not saying it is fiscally impossible. im saying that a social health care system in this society might not be the wiser option.

  • JimBeamJimBeam Seattle. 2,012 Posts
    It's an obvious step towards socialism and this is America damnit!

    Seriously, just about every right-wing anti-government health care stance boils down to this. I wish I were joking about that, but I'm not.

    goddamned people be runnin' around holding up f.a. hayek's "the road to serfdom" like it's the bible. (again, npi.) I think it's time for a book burning.

  • Mike_BellMike_Bell 5,736 Posts
    All of this talk about health insurance makes me want to stay in the military.

  • you know what made me post this..it was because I took my mom to see a doctor today and her medicare, medicaid, and social security didn't even come close to covering her visit and prescription! I mean I sat there waiting with her to see the doctor and there were soooo many people there without healthcare coverage it made me sick to my stomach. My mom said to me, "you better try to take care of yourself cause this is where the poor go for so-called healthcare." That statement hit me hard! I know that healthcare in europe has it's kinks, but hey like you said one can spend your life savings in a hospital stay. The state of healthcare is sooo wack. To have so many uninsured american citizens to me is sooo unamerican!!!!

  • why??? please explain.

  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
    I am canadian and we have universal and free healthcare

    We strongly believe in this as a national value

    When i think of how much healthcare costs in the US especially if you are in a financially precarious position I find it quite harsh and unfair...

    We have problems with managing it (staffing,budgeting) in quebec there is a lot of hoopla about waiting time increasing etc...

    however i can say from first hand experience service is still great...fucking great despite all the complaining..top notch...free

    the big issue here is allowing for privatization on a large scale
    most think this is opening the door for social inequality and the end of the canadian way

    with you guys there would be no problem for privatization thus making the universalization of healthcare that more manageable

    it would be great for the country and the people and no one could complain

    I can't beleive this is not as much of an issue in your country...

  • well. ok. i'll give you my opinion on why, but im not really knowledgeable, so take it as it is.

    first off, there is absolutely no way at this day and age that we as a nation would go completely over to a social healthcare system. the healthcare industry is just to big. the best that could most probably happen is a social healthcare system with there still being an option to pay for your own healthcare. i mean, lets face it, there are a select group of people that have enough of the worlds economy to pay to have their asses frozen and thawed in gold coffins like 100 times over. they aint gonna take the same pitily shit you and i would get for free.

    for example, remember school lunch? subsidized food that was controlled by the government. it was sustenance at a very affordable rate. but, now, honestly, how many of us ate that shit? not many. it was low grade horsemeat that met a certain government standard of quality. and it was very apparent that that standard was very low. this is what i imagine happening to healthcare if it were to be socialized.

  • ok..you make some good points, but shit what are we (americans) suppose to do in the meatime? I can only imagine what will happen we all of us soulstrutters get "old".

  • amir, you gotta move to cali. if you need medical assistance and have no coverage you can walk into u.c.l.a. medical center and get free treatment. peace, stein. . .

  • LOL...everyday cali is looking better and better to me!!! I am just scared about moving my records. Seriously, i am totally looking for alternatives here in NYC, but I hit brick walls all the time...mostly, they say I earn too much for discount insurance...wtf????? On my salary, I can barely afford my rent.

  • OkemOkem 4,617 Posts
    We have free health care here in the Uk. Its part of the welfare state, which is another socialist idea 'Americans' are not keen on.
    You may have to wait longer for treatment, but the Doctors are just as capable.
    Its been discussed at length on here before.

    In the UK you pay 40% tax if you earn from ??33,300 and above. As opposed to the US # 25%: from $30,651 to $74,200 or # 28%: from $74,201 to $154,800.

    It would take a HUGE hike in your taxes to set up. This would have obvious negative economic repercussions. So I don't see this ever happening in the US.

  • so i guess i should move to europe or canada..lol!

  • NHS



    Thay brought me into this world and will no doubt see me out when the time comes...

    A little Socalism is a good thing...

  • jleejlee 1,539 Posts
    shig is speaking hot fiyah son!!!!! i am cosigning pretty much everything he is saying.

    not gonna happen, not ever never ever never. and while there are obvious positives regarding the situation in canada and UK there are some CRAZY bureaucratic issues that go along with it.

    so....to me the best thing i see coming out of this country is something similar to what is happening in MA. from what i have read about it, basically like car insurance everyone has to pay for healthcare insurance (except those in the extreme poverty group) and like car insurance you can get the baller plan if you want to drop a lot of money or just the bare minimum if thats all you can afford.

    there is no perfect solution to this. insurance companies are embedded in our government and our lives. if we are going to live with them i would rather a situation like that above.

    right now people are just testing their luck. 1 yr ago i would have said, fuck paying for health insurance, the only thing likely to happen to me is something crazy like getting hit by a bus. one appendix removal later ($20K bill) and i swear by insurance now. the thought of people have to pay for $20K for a surgery that you must have and can't afford is so depressing. but i am not going to just pull an idea out of the sky like 'lets give everyone free insurance'

    shit...half the people who say shit like that (not talking about the strut specifically) don't have the first clue as to how we would pay for it in the long term (if you say iraq you are dumber than you think) and most of the folks are so against raising taxes. if everyone paid for insurance (even a little) it would in theory reduce our premiums we pay. that i think is the best thing we can possibly ask for given the current situation.

    baby steps folks, baby steps.

  • bozakbozak 334 Posts
    amir, you gotta move to cali. if you need medical assistance and have no coverage you can walk into u.c.l.a. medical center and get free treatment. peace, stein. . .


    wow. LA here I come.


    or maybe toronto

  • ok...i just don't get it with this money issue. The money is the there, but the problem is getting the money allocated. Poeple have mentioned red tape..come on try explaining "we cannot do it" or "it will never ever ever happen" to the hard working and poor americans that suffer from this unfair system. We pay for sooo many things in this country that make no sense and yes, i am talking bout Irag too! It's a cop out for the politicans and people against free healthcare...I think people who are against free healthcare as dumb brainwashed fools! it's immoral for a nation like america not to provide free healthcare for it's citizens.

  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
    I forgot to mention we get taxed like shit here

    would you guys be down for 40%

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts


    so....to me the best thing i see coming out of this country is something similar to what is happening in MA. from what i have read about it, basically like car insurance everyone has to pay for healthcare insurance (except those in the extreme poverty group) and like car insurance you can get the baller plan if you want to drop a lot of money or just the bare minimum if thats all you can afford.


    Right - this is what the country needs on a whole - not
    standardized "free" care for everyone, which is not viable
    at this stage in the game, but a MINIMUM STANDARD of heath care
    for everyone, meaning that everyone has access to health care,
    regardless of income - those with a higher income will have to
    pay more ... people are scared of this because it smacks of the
    evil "W" word, AKA "welfare," but there is a big difference between
    handing out paychecks to people who aren't working, and creating
    a safety net so that impoverished and low-income families are
    not denied basic and quality care for their children and themselves.
    "UNIVERSAL" health care doesn't have to mean "free" - it just means
    coverage for everyone, at costs they can afford - so that if you
    are diagnosed with cancer, it doesn't mean your kids can't go to college
    and you have to sell your house.


    It's funny how socialized medicine is treated as near-communism
    by the powers-that-be in our country, yet our two biggest allies
    in the world have had it for as long as any of us can remember.
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