and part of the reason they video taped it ,i suspect, was so that all the conspiracy theory nuts couldn't say that he was living on a yacht somewhere with dick cheney's anal baby or something, but they will still say that anyways
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
and part of the reason they video taped it ,i suspect, was so that all the conspiracy theory nuts couldn't say that he was living on a yacht somewhere with dick cheney's anal baby or something, but they will still say that anyways
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
they show the acutual video of him dying or just shots before and after?
the question few are asking is how is it that an equally murderous dictator such as Pinochet in Chile is allowed to live to an old ripe age marinating in some villa on the Mediterranean while Saddam is rushed to the guillotine in some futile attempt to gain applause from a populace drowned in the imagery of his inherent malevolence....
and part of the reason they video taped it ,i suspect, was so that all the conspiracy theory nuts couldn't say that he was living on a yacht somewhere with dick cheney's anal baby or something, but they will still say that anyways
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
they show the acutual video of him dying or just shots before and after?
i have yet to see this, have to wait till lunch
Not all of it. Probably right before the platform dropped.
Anyways, I don't think Saddam was humane in any way.
and part of the reason they video taped it ,i suspect, was so that all the conspiracy theory nuts couldn't say that he was living on a yacht somewhere with dick cheney's anal baby or something, but they will still say that anyways
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
they show the acutual video of him dying or just shots before and after?
i have yet to see this, have to wait till lunch
Having not watched it I can't confirm, but they seem to say it is a video of the moments leading up to the execution. Which is differently perverse...
All I want to say is that all these deaths of ex-Presidents - scheduled and unscheduled - are fucking disrespectful to the Funky President. How come Eisenhower didn't kick off the week Elvis died?
All I want to say is that all these deaths of ex-Presidents - scheduled and unscheduled - are fucking disrespectful to the Funky President. How come Eisenhower didn't kick off the week Elvis died?
"After a quarter-century of remorseless brutality that killed countless thousands and led Iraq into disastrous wars against the United States and Iran, Saddam was executed before sunrise Saturday."
Talk about mixing truth with fact. Saddam's internal brutality that got him hung had nothing to do with his external problems with the US.
And I love that our 2 time invasion of a country that never attacked us is now generally reported as a war.
As usualy you could change the names and it would be the same. "After a quater century of remorseless brutality that killed thousands by leading the US into a disastrous invasion of Iraq, the Bush family has finally lost the Presidency...."
maybe i'm just tripping and it's practically 4:00 in the AM PST but being able to see the final moments of someone on T.V. is real crazy. I feel it kind of says something in the world we live in, like it's nothing to see somebody about to killed.....
Unlike the hordes of deaths we see fictionalized on television or the movies everyday?
That said, I'm all in favor of broadcasting executions. I think that dose of reality might hit home for those who are in favor of capital punishment without having to be confronted with what it looks like for the state to put someone to death. Of course, other folks will probably get off on it but as noted, I'm not sure how much worse that would be considering our daily orgy of death served up as entertainment.
Regardless, if anyone earned their way to the noose, it was Sadaam. I'm surprised it wasn't a gun squad though.
I'm not in favor of the death penalty; we've shown no real ability in judgement to be able to hand out that most irreversible of sentences. But, if there was ever an occasion for the death penalty, I'm not really going to stake my flag on defending a depotic murderer.
THAT SAID, the way this was carried out was horribly rushed and reeks of desperation. I heard a great commentary on NPR yesterday that argued that fine- execute the man. BUT, wait until we are able to talk to him, learn about what he did. Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
In this case, a kangaroo court condemned a man that the whole world knows is guilty- but what did we learn? That Saddam is capable of turning a courtroom into a circus, that he goes through lawyers like underwear, and that he was guilty- nothing we didn't know already.
And, now we won't get a second chance, because you only get one shot at executions- and if there is one thing that humans have proven time and again is that we need more than one shot.
Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
U think he'll cooperate w/ interviewers that way those Nazi's did? I would imagine him fuckin w/ whomever asked him questions about his crimes.
Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
U think he'll cooperate w/ interviewers that way those Nazi's did? I would imagine him fuckin w/ whomever asked him questions about his crimes.
The difference being we won the war in Germany and the Nazis surrendered. Saddam never had to surrender because he was not defeated.
Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
U think he'll cooperate w/ interviewers that way those Nazi's did? I would imagine him fuckin w/ whomever asked him questions about his crimes.
The difference being we won the war in Germany and the Nazis surrendered. Saddam never had to surrender because he was not defeated.
I'm just talkin' about Saddam's overall attitude towards authority.
Saddam never had to surrender because he was not defeated.
Huh?
---
The Nazis volunterialy signed an unconditional surrender because their country was destroyed and their support was gone. Saddam did not surrender to American troops, he was captured. The Bathists have never surrendered. Nor has the Taliban.
George Bush did not have the either the smarts or the stomach to win in Afganistan or Iraq. Victory looks like Sherman's march through Georgia, and the fire bombing of Dresden and destruction of Berlin. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
the whole 'terms of surrender' thing is an outmoded concept - saying Saddam wasn't defeated because he didn't surrender makes about as much sense as claiming that Iraq isn't actually a war because Congress never declared it as such.
Bush may not have won, but Saddam getting hanged looks an awful lot like defeat(for him at least) to me.
I think what he's saying is that we've captured and killed an Iraqi leader but that in no way signals any kind of victory in Iraq.
I mean, for all the horrible shit he did we have completely bungled the operation, and who knows that we haven't created something that will go on be just as horrible. Seeing Saddam executed is like the fucking booby prize.
Seeing Saddam executed is like the fucking booby prize.
no doubt - but saying Saddam wasn't defeated is just spliting hairs...
at the same time - listening to Bush & his cronies one gets the impression that they think the 'insurgency' is a bunch of Saddam loyalists fighting to return him to power - that may have been true immediately after the invasion, but I imagine most former Baathists loyalty to Saddam stopped at the point he was wasn't able to kill them anymore.
I think what he's saying is that we've captured and killed an Iraqi leader but that in no way signals any kind of victory in Iraq.
I mean, for all the horrible shit he did we have completely bungled the operation, and who knows that we haven't created something that will go on be just as horrible. Seeing Saddam executed is like the fucking booby prize.
Word.
It's not even a "prize." Justice? Sure, in the cosmic sense of it. Saddam surely deserved a shitty fate, hanging or otherwise. But in the grand scheme of things, his execution doesn't close a chapter on anything.
I think this was Laserwolf's point: that Nuremberg was an act of closure (amongst other things) but in this case, executing Saddam means absolutely nothing in terms of what Iraq is dealing with.
I mean, for all the horrible shit he did we have completely bungled the operation, and who knows that we haven't created something that will go on be just as horrible. Seeing Saddam executed is like the fucking booby prize.
it is a very hollow victory.
and, i'm not so naive to think that he would have written his memoirs, told all, and quietly dropped from the gallows. but, he would have said something. also, keep in mind that his attitudes about these acts are very different than ours; some of his people might think him a hero for gassing kurds. there are secterian divides that we have very little appreciation for (unforgivably) that motivate a lot of the actions in Iraw. Saddam may be no different. And, hell. We can't possibly learn LESS from the man than we can now.
I mean, they rushed him to death so they wouldn't have to wait the four days for his religious holiday to have passed; does that not strike some as disrespectful? Not so much to him, but his fellow believers? I just don't get the rush to action. Booby prize indeed.
and part of the reason they video taped it ,i suspect, was so that all the conspiracy theory nuts couldn't say that he was living on a yacht somewhere with dick cheney's anal baby or something, but they will still say that anyways
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
sayin' back at you
i'm not talking about Saadam or whomever......i'm just talking how heartless we've become that it's nothing and it's casually on the internet. I watched about 5 seconds and coudn't bare to watch it.
end times? why not.....i hope so, get all this shit over with.
maybe i'm just tripping and it's practically 4:00 in the AM PST but being able to see the final moments of someone on T.V. is real crazy. I feel it kind of says something in the world we live in, like it's nothing to see somebody about to killed.....
Unlike the hordes of deaths we see fictionalized on television or the movies everyday?
That said, I'm all in favor of broadcasting executions. I think that dose of reality might hit home for those who are in favor of capital punishment without having to be confronted with what it looks like for the state to put someone to death. Of course, other folks will probably get off on it but as noted, I'm not sure how much worse that would be considering our daily orgy of death served up as entertainment.
Regardless, if anyone earned their way to the noose, it was Sadaam. I'm surprised it wasn't a gun squad though.
O
Well i think comparing OBVIOUS FICTION to a hanging of somebody is an "apples vs oranges" type of thing. but the fact that a smart good dude like yourself has no problem with having executions televised, again says something about the day we live in.
Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
U think he'll cooperate w/ interviewers that way those Nazi's did? I would imagine him fuckin w/ whomever asked him questions about his crimes.[/b]
The difference being we won the war in Germany and the Nazis surrendered. Saddam never had to surrender because he was not defeated.
I hope I didn't open a big spider hole here.
I was referring to the reason why Nazis cooperated and Bathists did not. Nazis were defeated and surrendered unconditionally. Bathists were never defeated and never surrendered. That includes Saddam. He went to the gallows, but he did not surrender. Clear enough?
maybe i'm just tripping and it's practically 4:00 in the AM PST but being able to see the final moments of someone on T.V. is real crazy. I feel it kind of says something in the world we live in, like it's nothing to see somebody about to killed.....
Regardless, if anyone earned their way to the noose, it was Sadaam. I'm surprised it wasn't a gun squad though.
Saddam wanted a firing squad death suitable, as he said, for a dignified military hero and champion of Iraq. Somehow, Shi'ites didn't agree and gave him the ignominious death instead.
I'm of the cloth that no death should be celebrated. But his execution was deserved. Dude was wacking off to executions he had ordered filmed on videotapes. Gimme a break. Solved nothing though, granted. He should have been executed after Eid. This execution will be deemed as a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs and will increase sectarian violence, not for the loss of Saddam, but the lack of respect for Islamic tradition in order to disgrace a Muslim of an opposing sect.
Saddam wanted a firing squad death suitable, as he said, for a dignified military hero and champion of Iraq. Somehow, Shi'ites didn't agree and gave him the ignominious death instead.
I'm of the cloth that no death should be celebrated. But his execution was deserved. Dude was wacking off to executions he had ordered filmed on videotapes. Gimme a break. Solved nothing though, granted. He should have been executed after Eid. This execution will be deemed as a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs and will increase sectarian violence, not for the loss of Saddam, but the lack of respect for Islamic tradition in order to disgrace a Muslim of an opposing sect.
maybe i'm just tripping and it's practically 4:00 in the AM PST but being able to see the final moments of someone on T.V. is real crazy. I feel it kind of says something in the world we live in, like it's nothing to see somebody about to killed.....
Yeah, sometimes the real world is worse than an 80's Action Bmovie nowadays.
Solved nothing though, granted. He should have been executed after Eid. This execution will be deemed as a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs and will increase sectarian violence, not for the loss of Saddam, but the lack of respect for Islamic tradition in order to disgrace a Muslim of an opposing sect.
Cosign, right at the beginning of Eid al-Adha. This is not a good look. And it was one of Bush's last trumpcards. Can't believe they let this happen. Right now, he probably will put even more troops in Iraq while simultaneously trying to get people employed and facilitate business creation. But how can you do that when not even the power infrastructure is appropriate and more and more soldiers are in place. This country from the Drawing Board will continue to face serious problems between all groups involved. Shit is crazy.
On a RR note Wasn't it Vast Aire who said something like "Drop the bomb on 'em, go Saddam on em'"?
Comments
I was thinking this. I don't care that he was executed... it was just a bit odd to see a video stream of it at the top of CNN.com this morning.
they show the acutual video of him dying or just shots before and after?
i have yet to see this, have to wait till lunch
Not all of it. Probably right before the platform dropped.
Anyways, I don't think Saddam was humane in any way.
Having not watched it I can't confirm, but they seem to say it is a video of the moments leading up to the execution. Which is differently perverse...
CONSPIRACY THEORY!
Talk about mixing truth with fact. Saddam's internal brutality that got him hung had nothing to do with his external problems with the US.
And I love that our 2 time invasion of a country that never attacked us is now generally reported as a war.
As usualy you could change the names and it would be the same. "After a quater century of remorseless brutality that killed thousands by leading the US into a disastrous invasion of Iraq, the Bush family has finally lost the Presidency...."
Unlike the hordes of deaths we see fictionalized on television or the movies everyday?
That said, I'm all in favor of broadcasting executions. I think that dose of reality might hit home for those who are in favor of capital punishment without having to be confronted with what it looks like for the state to put someone to death. Of course, other folks will probably get off on it but as noted, I'm not sure how much worse that would be considering our daily orgy of death served up as entertainment.
Regardless, if anyone earned their way to the noose, it was Sadaam. I'm surprised it wasn't a gun squad though.
I'm not in favor of the death penalty; we've shown no real ability in judgement to be able to hand out that most irreversible of sentences. But, if there was ever an occasion for the death penalty, I'm not really going to stake my flag on defending a depotic murderer.
THAT SAID, the way this was carried out was horribly rushed and reeks of desperation. I heard a great commentary on NPR yesterday that argued that fine- execute the man. BUT, wait until we are able to talk to him, learn about what he did. Now that he is gone, we will never learn about his gassing the Kurds, or any of the other horrible acts he carried out that we might not know about. The commentator argued that after the Nuremburg trials there was a period where those found guilty were kept alive so that we could learn more about their side of the holocaust.
In this case, a kangaroo court condemned a man that the whole world knows is guilty- but what did we learn? That Saddam is capable of turning a courtroom into a circus, that he goes through lawyers like underwear, and that he was guilty- nothing we didn't know already.
And, now we won't get a second chance, because you only get one shot at executions- and if there is one thing that humans have proven time and again is that we need more than one shot.
U think he'll cooperate w/ interviewers that way those Nazi's did? I would imagine him fuckin w/ whomever asked him questions about his crimes.
The difference being we won the war in Germany and the Nazis surrendered. Saddam never had to surrender because he was not defeated.
I hope I didn't open a big spider hole here.
I'm just talkin' about Saddam's overall attitude towards authority.
Huh?
---
The Nazis volunterialy signed an unconditional surrender because their country was destroyed and their support was gone. Saddam did not surrender to American troops, he was captured. The Bathists have never surrendered. Nor has the Taliban.
George Bush did not have the either the smarts or the stomach to win in Afganistan or Iraq. Victory looks like Sherman's march through Georgia, and the fire bombing of Dresden and destruction of Berlin. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Bush may not have won, but Saddam getting hanged looks an awful lot like defeat(for him at least) to me.
I mean, for all the horrible shit he did we have completely bungled the operation, and who knows that we haven't created something that will go on be just as horrible. Seeing Saddam executed is like the fucking booby prize.
no doubt - but saying Saddam wasn't defeated is just spliting hairs...
at the same time - listening to Bush & his cronies one gets the impression that they think the 'insurgency' is a bunch of Saddam loyalists fighting to return him to power - that may have been true immediately after the invasion, but I imagine most former Baathists loyalty to Saddam stopped at the point he was wasn't able to kill them anymore.
Word.
It's not even a "prize." Justice? Sure, in the cosmic sense of it. Saddam surely deserved a shitty fate, hanging or otherwise. But in the grand scheme of things, his execution doesn't close a chapter on anything.
I think this was Laserwolf's point: that Nuremberg was an act of closure (amongst other things) but in this case, executing Saddam means absolutely nothing in terms of what Iraq is dealing with.
it is a very hollow victory.
and, i'm not so naive to think that he would have written his memoirs, told all, and quietly dropped from the gallows. but, he would have said something. also, keep in mind that his attitudes about these acts are very different than ours; some of his people might think him a hero for gassing kurds. there are secterian divides that we have very little appreciation for (unforgivably) that motivate a lot of the actions in Iraw. Saddam may be no different. And, hell. We can't possibly learn LESS from the man than we can now.
I mean, they rushed him to death so they wouldn't have to wait the four days for his religious holiday to have passed; does that not strike some as disrespectful? Not so much to him, but his fellow believers? I just don't get the rush to action. Booby prize indeed.
sayin' back at you
i'm not talking about Saadam or whomever......i'm just talking how heartless we've become that it's nothing and it's casually on the internet. I watched about 5 seconds and coudn't bare to watch it.
end times? why not.....i hope so, get all this shit over with.
O
Well i think comparing OBVIOUS FICTION to a hanging of somebody is an "apples vs oranges" type of thing. but the fact that a smart good dude like yourself has no problem with having executions televised, again says something about the day we live in.
I was referring to the reason why Nazis cooperated and Bathists did not. Nazis were defeated and surrendered unconditionally. Bathists were never defeated and never surrendered. That includes Saddam. He went to the gallows, but he did not surrender. Clear enough?
Saddam wanted a firing squad death suitable, as he said, for a dignified military hero and champion of Iraq. Somehow, Shi'ites didn't agree and gave him the ignominious death instead.
I'm of the cloth that no death should be celebrated. But his execution was deserved. Dude was wacking off to executions he had ordered filmed on videotapes. Gimme a break.
Solved nothing though, granted. He should have been executed after Eid. This execution will be deemed as a slap in the face to Sunni Arabs and will increase sectarian violence, not for the loss of Saddam, but the lack of respect for Islamic tradition in order to disgrace a Muslim of an opposing sect.
Yeah, sometimes the real world is worse than an 80's Action Bmovie nowadays.
Cosign, right at the beginning of Eid al-Adha. This is not a good look. And it was one of Bush's last trumpcards. Can't believe they let this happen. Right now, he probably will put even more troops in Iraq while simultaneously trying to get people employed and facilitate business creation. But how can you do that when not even the power infrastructure is appropriate and more and more soldiers are in place. This country from the Drawing Board will continue to face serious problems between all groups involved. Shit is crazy.
On a RR note
Wasn't it Vast Aire who said something like "Drop the bomb on 'em, go Saddam on em'"?