thanks bam & asprin for breaking down where you are coming from a little. you're always both very forthcoming here and it's appreciated. i think shig's post really gets at what i struggle with the most -- what "weapons" really constitute armed struggle, when is a camera, a picket sign, money a weapon. and how does one draw the line on where actual violence is an acceptable tactic to combat violence? history is filled with very contrary examples on this particular question.
yo for me, i gotta be honest here... you gotta fight fire w/ fire, if a muthafucker only understands guns for example, you better have a gun for that discussion, if he uses a picket sign, make your sign bigger etc etc... it's like the old saying dont bring a knife to a gun fight, im 210% down to use whatever the fuck is at my disposal IF needed... this 7" opens minds on both side of the coin & is up to them how they hear it & what they choose to do w/ it... the fact these brothers had the balls to put out such a strong message, imo shows how they fight the struggle through music!!! solid job guys...
I can't speak for Bam, but for me, everything...from the site, to the music, to the organizations we are supporting is our way of picking up the gun. Take time to read the articles on the Proletariat Press page, visit the websites for the Freedom Archives and Iha-Hud and you'll start to see and hear our guns.
That seems more like the picket sign than the gun. I think dudes are wondering if you're ready to use violence to get your point across?
How is directly funding organizations that affect positive social change like holding a picket sign? I think the VS is using words and actions to get their point across, rather than just words.
Personally, I think the U.S. is not ripe for armed revolution. (Keep in mind I'm a proponant of both strict gun laws and 2nd amendment rights.) Who would we be rising up against? Our Government? Our elected officials? Corporations? That's a lot to swallow for the minority of citizens who are even aware of the problem, let alone those who wish to do something about it.
Its not guns. I put peaceful protest/actions in a completely different category from killing people to achieve the same outcome. I thought that was the meaning of the statement "put down the picket sign and pick up the gun." Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
if i believe in the shit im tryin to achieve, str8 up no question about it...
I can't speak for Bam, but for me, everything...from the site, to the music, to the organizations we are supporting is our way of picking up the gun. Take time to read the articles on the Proletariat Press page, visit the websites for the Freedom Archives and Iha-Hud and you'll start to see and hear our guns.
That seems more like the picket sign than the gun. I think dudes are wondering if you're ready to use violence to get your point across?
How is directly funding organizations that affect positive social change like holding a picket sign? I think the VS is using words and actions to get their point across, rather than just words.
Personally, I think the U.S. is not ripe for armed revolution. (Keep in mind I'm a proponant of both strict gun laws and 2nd amendment rights.) Who would we be rising up against? Our Government? Our elected officials? Corporations? That's a lot to swallow for the minority of citizens who are even aware of the problem, let alone those who wish to do something about it.
Its not guns. I put peaceful protest/actions in a completely different category from killing people to achieve the same outcome. I thought that was the meaning of the statement "put down the picket sign and pick up the gun." Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
Yes, on the surface that is what it means. However, many of us choose not to think in such concrete terms.
Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
And I think the question can only be answered when you're confronted with the ten-thousand things. Right then. When the decision needs to be made.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. And I'd like to hear more.
I could sit on the internet and say I'm "ready", but I don't know what I'll be confronted with in my apartment. I think I'm more likely get into some shit if I'm holding a picket sign.
Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
And I think the question can only be answered when you're confronted with the ten-thousand things. Right then. When the decision needs to be made.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. And I'd like to hear more.
I could sit on the internet and say I'm "ready", but I don't know what I'll be confronted with in my apartment. I think I'm more likely get into some shit if I'm holding a picket sign.
so on point, no one can really know what they'll do until they're in that situation, but that only begets more questions. the act of taking someone's life to achieve a political goal might be a spontaneous decision but the preparation and momentum required to end up in a position to be making that decision are far from spontaneous. revolutions don't just happen. how do you know how to prepare?
Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
And I think the question can only be answered when you're confronted with the ten-thousand things. Right then. When the decision needs to be made.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. And I'd like to hear more.
I could sit on the internet and say I'm "ready", but I don't know what I'll be confronted with in my apartment. I think I'm more likely get into some shit if I'm holding a picket sign.
so on point, no one can really know what they'll do until they're in that situation, but that only begets more questions. the act of taking someone's life to achieve a political goal might be a spontaneous decision but the preparation and momentum required to end up in a position to be making that decision are far from spontaneous. revolutions don't just happen. how do you know how to prepare?
well i think we can all agree that the squads revolution has begun... nuff spects due...
Man, I can't stress enough to those of you who haven't heard this: YOU NEED THIS 45 IN YOUR LIFE![/b] I first heard these tracks what, three years ago? I'm still listening.
More important, though, is the site. The Vanguard Squad website is already a wealth of entertainment, information, and inspiration, but this is only the beginning. I think this website has the potential to become a hub, or even the hub for the majority of my internet browsing.
Congratulations to Eric and Tsega for getting this off the ground. I can't express to you what an inspiration it is to see a project this ambitious go from vague conceptualization to final product. I'm looking forward to being continuously awed.
you look pretty fucking wasted for only drinking the neck of that bottle!
I can't speak for Bam, but for me, everything...from the site, to the music, to the organizations we are supporting is our way of picking up the gun. Take time to read the articles on the Proletariat Press page, visit the websites for the Freedom Archives and Iha-Hud and you'll start to see and hear our guns.
That seems more like the picket sign than the gun. I think dudes are wondering if you're ready to use violence to get your point across?
How is directly funding organizations that affect positive social change like holding a picket sign? I think the VS is using words and actions to get their point across, rather than just words.
Personally, I think the U.S. is not ripe for armed revolution. (Keep in mind I'm a proponant of both strict gun laws and 2nd amendment rights.) Who would we be rising up against? Our Government? Our elected officials? Corporations? That's a lot to swallow for the minority of citizens who are even aware of the problem, let alone those who wish to do something about it.
Its not guns. I put peaceful protest/actions in a completely different category from killing people to achieve the same outcome. I thought that was the meaning of the statement "put down the picket sign and pick up the gun." Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
Yes, on the surface that is what it means. However, many of us choose not to think in such concrete terms.
Well I'd probably be less inclined to take it literally if there weren't portrayals of guns and grenades on the cover.
Ultimately it comes down to: are you ready to take anothers life and give yours to achieve your goal?
And I think the question can only be answered when you're confronted with the ten-thousand things. Right then. When the decision needs to be made.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. And I'd like to hear more.
I could sit on the internet and say I'm "ready", but I don't know what I'll be confronted with in my apartment. I think I'm more likely get into some shit if I'm holding a picket sign.
so on point, no one can really know what they'll do until they're in that situation, but that only begets more questions. the act of taking someone's life to achieve a political goal might be a spontaneous decision but the preparation and momentum required to end up in a position to be making that decision are far from spontaneous. revolutions don't just happen. how do you know how to prepare?
well i think we can all agree that the squads revolution has begun... nuff spects due...
no doubt about that. now that the vangaurd is marching i can get back to bugging bam to get that evolution of styles shit out on wax too.
thats how i tend to keep it... peoples asking if peoples ready & willing to die for causes, im ready & willing... but if nuff peoples listen to the message behind this ep & what it does to help, alot of minds will open, some may lay down arms for picket signs & some may lie down picket signs for guns, bottom line is your music & your vision made this line of thinking possible & that's what i call a serious accomplishment... again i cant extend how hyped i am on this project & your dedication to helping GREAT causes... peace to you both for having the courage to let your voice be heard...
but if nuff peoples listen to the message behind this ep & what it does to help, alot of minds will open, some may lay down arms for picket signs & some may lie down picket signs for guns, bottom line is your music & your vision made this line of thinking possible & that's what i call a serious accomplishment... again i cant extend how hyped i am on this project & your dedication to helping GREAT causes... peace to you both for having the courage to let your voice be heard...
Jump Jump Music hopes to have it in stock by Friday. Fair shipping costs to Canada and the rest of the world. I'm sure Baghat and STH will also ship it overseas for all you all.
Thanks for asking about my mom, all who did. She is doing great. 80 years old, they just ripped her gall bladder out. She is up and about and doing for herself.
I've gotten my copy and I can't tell all you all how much you need this.
On armed struggle.
What is worth fighting for? What is worth dying for?
I should think that my personal and my countrys freedom, democracy and justice are worth fighting, even taking up arms for.
The second amendment to the constitution of the United States Of America: [color:red] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [/color]
Gives each of us the right to form armies and defend our freedom.
There have been a few times in my life that freedom needed defending: November 2000. Presidential election stolen. Majority rule overturned, vote counting stopped by federal courts. I am ashamed to say I watched these events like they were a sporting event and not the darkest hour of our country.
In the 1970's, as a middle schooler, I joined the revolution against the Nixon administration in general, and the war in Viet Nam specifically. It was a time of decreasing civil and political rights. Goverment spying on citizens,and dirty tricks to win elections, and political arrests were at an all time high.
I did not take up arms, but I participated in 2 events that I am proud of: On November 3rd 1972 members of the American Indian Movement occupied the Bureau Of Indian Affairs Headquarters in Washington DC. To keep the police from attaking the building White suburban kids including me occupied the lawn around the building. The stand off lasted until the 9th and ended peacfully. I was not camped out for 6 days, I went down when I could skip school and I was home for supper.
On May 3rd 1971 I joined others in an attempt to end the war in Viet Nam by shutting down the goverment. 7,000 people were arrested that day including me. It was the largest mass arrest in the history of the US.
So am I ready today to take up arms? No. I would not make a good soldier. at about the same time these events happened I got in a school yard fight. A kid came up to me and started hitting me. I tried to fight back. For every 2 times he hit me in the face I hit him in the stomach once. Here I was being pummelled by a bullie who hated me for no apparent reason and I couldn't bring myself to hit him hard or in the face. There is no way I could gun. knife or bomb anyone.
I like to think that I did some good back in those days. Sadly, today we expect our goverment to spy on us. We expect politicians to engage in dirty tricks. We expect political arrests. American Indian treaties are still not being honored. We again find ourselves mired in an unjust war, wasting 1,000s of lives.
Still things would be much worse if people like the Vanguard Squad were not willing to stand up and say "we will not take it".
Jump Jump Music hopes to have it in stock by Friday. Fair shipping costs to Canada and the rest of the world. I'm sure Baghat and STH will also ship it overseas for all you all.
Thanks for asking about my mom, all who did. She is doing great. 80 years old, they just ripped her gall bladder out. She is up and about and doing for herself.
I've gotten my copy and I can't tell all you all how much you need this.
On armed struggle.
What is worth fighting for? What is worth dying for?
I should think that my personal and my countrys freedom, democracy and justice are worth fighting, even taking up arms for.
The second amendment to the constitution of the United States Of America: [color:red] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [/color]
Gives each of us the right to form armies and defend our freedom.
There have been a few times in my life that freedom needed defending: November 2000. Presidential election stolen. Majority rule overturned, vote counting stopped by federal courts. I am ashamed to say I watched these events like they were a sporting event and not the darkest hour of our country.
In the 1970's, as a middle schooler, I joined the revolution against the Nixon administration in general, and the war in Viet Nam specifically. It was a time of decreasing civil and political rights. Goverment spying on citizens,and dirty tricks to win elections, and political arrests were at an all time high.
I did not take up arms, but I participated in 2 events that I am proud of: On November 3rd 1972 members of the American Indian Movement occupied the Bureau Of Indian Affairs Headquarters in Washington DC. To keep the police from attaking the building White suburban kids including me occupied the lawn around the building. The stand off lasted until the 9th and ended peacfully. I was not camped out for 6 days, I went down when I could skip school and I was home for supper.
On May 3rd 1971 I joined others in an attempt to end the war in Viet Nam by shutting down the goverment. 7,000 people were arrested that day including me. It was the largest mass arrest in the history of the US.
So am I ready today to take up arms? No. I would not make a good soldier. at about the same time these events happened I got in a school yard fight. A kid came up to me and started hitting me. I tried to fight back. For every 2 times he hit me in the face I hit him in the stomach once. Here I was being pummelled by a bullie who hated me for no apparent reason and I couldn't bring myself to hit him hard or in the face. There is no way I could gun. knife or bomb anyone.
I like to think that I did some good back in those days. Sadly, today we expect our goverment to spy on us. We expect politicians to engage in dirty tricks. We expect political arrests. American Indian treaties are still not being honored. We again find ourselves mired in an unjust war, wasting 1,000s of lives.
Still things would be much worse if people like the Vanguard Squad were not willing to stand up and say "we will not take it".
So am I ready today to take up arms? No. I would not make a good soldier. at about the same time these events happened I got in a school yard fight. A kid came up to me and started hitting me. I tried to fight back. For every 2 times he hit me in the face I hit him in the stomach once. Here I was being pummelled by a bullie who hated me for no apparent reason and I couldn't bring myself to hit him hard or in the face. There is no way I could gun. knife or bomb anyone.
I like to think that I did some good back in those days. Sadly, today we expect our goverment to spy on us. We expect politicians to engage in dirty tricks. We expect political arrests. American Indian treaties are still not being honored. We again find ourselves mired in an unjust war, wasting 1,000s of lives.
Dan
Thank you Dan.
I've been reading through some of the FOIA information and The Pentagon Papers dealing with the Defense of South Vietnam the War Against South Vietnam, and Noam Chomsky recently mentioned this in his blog (Noam is like the catchdubs of the 40+ crowd, yaom?).
I had no authority over you. But I called you, and you came
It took years for the protests of Vietnam to develop. Thousands dead before anyone heard anything. My former boss (the same fellow who represented Cleaver) fought in Vietnam, and lost half of his arm in battle, commented that it was obvious to everyone on the front line that the ratio of Black soldiers to white was staggering. The Blacks were obviously being sent forward to fight/die.
This record
sums it up nicely (well, uglyly actually), but it took a Black reporter to go to Vietnam and tape record Black soldiers on the front line, come home, get the record picked, arranged, pressed, packaged, and distributed before the dissent was heard. By that time thousands had died.
It took years before protests against Vietnam began. Now, however, I get 15 - 20 action alerts a day, from truthout, corp watch, iraqbodycount, worldwide socialist web, The New Standard, Institute for Public Accuracy... Not to mention, I can log on to any arabic news site, watch live streaming vidoes, read Iraq blogs, etc.
I don't think this record is as much about whether we're ready to "pick up a gun" as it is about being aware, being critical and understanding our history.
i dont really mean to attack you because i think you guys are doing a good thing but once again, being critical and understanding our history is picking up the picket sign and voicing out against the government..ect. picking up a gun is entirely different. im just going by your words.
i like the website.
I don't feel attacked. Thank you for clarifying. Perhaps there is confusion on what "my words" were. I said the record is a reflection (as it samples speeches discussing two instances of armed resistance in history) of historic struggles, and, There comes a time when it is necessary to put down your picket sign and pick up a gun. That time is different for everyone. And everyone makes that decision differently. That decision is what this record is about.
Meaning, looking back through history, tracing the trajectory of a movement, it's easy to see the breaking point. Where pickets don't work. Where slogans don't work. Where protests don't work. When the decision to resist with arms is made.
It seems like you are reading that I am asking people to start shooting at stuff. I am not trying to encourage people to kill. But I'm certainly not discouraging them from being resistant. I realize the "message" of cover and the label can be taken literally, and that's fine. I can accept someone feeling like were inciting violence. It's going to mean ten-thousand things to ten-thousand people. Like Krishna's counsel in a time of war.
I could read the Bhagavad Gita and make an argument that it's counseling me to kill. Like those kids that kill and blame it on the Ozzy CD they were listening to. Of course, we're smarter than that. But it's an easy thing to say. My dude Charles was listening to Tupac on his way to kill himself. I smoke a blunt to take the pain out/ And if I wasn't high I'd probably try to blow my brains out. I blame ten-thousand things for Chuck's death, none of which include Tupac. People are going to think what they will, and I encourage that.
Revolution is not "showing" life to people, but bringing them to life. A revolutionary organization must always remember that its aim is not getting its adherents to listen to convincing talks by expert leaders, but getting them to speak for themselves, in order to achieve, or at least strive toward, an equal degree of participation.
--Guy Debord
Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. I praise and extol the serene courage of dying without killing. Yet I desire that those who have not this courage should rather cultivate the art of killing and being killed, then basely avoid the danger. This is because he who runs away commits mental violence; he has not the courage of facing death by killing. I would a thousand times prefer violence than the emasculation of a whole race. I prefer to use arms in defence of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor.
--Mahatma Gandhi
If you don't take this kind of stand, your little children will grow up and look at you and think "shame." If you don't take an uncompromising stand, I don't mean go out and get violent; but at the same time you should never be nonviolent unless you run into some nonviolence. I'm nonviolent with those who are nonviolent with me. But when you drop that violence on me, then you've made me go insane, and I'm not responsible for what I do.
--Malcolm X
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well-informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. What country ever before existed a century and a half without a rebellion. And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms! The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
--Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Col. William S. Smith, Paris, November 13, 1787
I am here by the will of the People; I shall leave only by the force of the bayonets.
--Mirabeau
I bring you the stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored from pirate raids in Kiao-Chou, Manchuria, South Africa, and the Philippines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies.
--Mark Twain
The oral tradition ??? stories, epics and songs of the people ??? which formerly were filed away as set pieces are now beginning to change. The story-tellers who used to relate inert episodes now bring them alive and introduce into them modifications which are increasingly fundamental. There is a tendency to bring conflicts up to date and to modernise the kinds of struggle which the stories evoke, together with the names of heroes and the types of weapons. The method of allusion is more and more widely used. The formula ???This all happened long ago??? is substituted by that of ???What we are to speak of happened somewhere else, but it might well have happened here today, and it might happen tomorrow.???
Ethiopia police battle students[/b] Ethiopian police have clashed with students protesting over last month's elections for a second day in the capital, Addis Ababa.
The students threw rocks at the police who responded by storming a technical college and arresting about 100 people.
The students were beaten with batons and rifle butts by police, who also fired shots in the air, witnesses said.
On Monday, a girl died in clashes which began when students defied a ban on protests following the poll.
They accused the ruling Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF) of rigging the elections.
Final results are not due until 8 July, to give the National Election Board time to investigate allegations of fraud.
'Scary'[/b]
The AP news agency reports that construction workers also threw stones at the police in support of the students.
"The police came running into the college, beating students and hitting them over their heads with their batons," said Liya Tsion, 17, a student of information technology.
"It was very scary and they were very aggressive and did not want to calm the situation down. It didn't last long, only five to 10 minutes, because we are young and they had guns and batons."
College Vice Principal Assefa Akirso said the police should have consulted teachers before storming the building.
Some 500 students were arrested on Monday.
Prime Minister Meles Zenawi banned all demonstrations after opposition allegations of fraud.
Opposition gains[/b]
The BBC's Mohammed Adow in Addis Ababa says tensions have been rising since the elections were held.
The opposition Coalition for Unity and Democracy (CUD) has denied government claims that it incited the students to protest.
According to provisional results, the EPRDF and its allies have won 320 seats so far giving it a majority in the 547-member parliament.
The opposition have, however, won almost 200 seats - a huge gain from the 12 they had in the previous parliament.
They won all the seats in Addis Ababa by a landslide.
EU observers have voiced concern over irregular vote counting and biased reports by the state-owned media.
Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. --Mahatma Gandhi
Thanks Bam. T were thinking of your home today.
I read a lot of childrens lit. I just read a Rosa Parks bio, an as-told-to thing, for 5th, 6th graders.
I knew that Rosa had long been an activist when she refused to give up her seat on a Montgomery AL Bus.
I did not know that she did not share Martin Luther King's views on non-violence. Her dad (granddad?) kept a gun in the house to defend her family from White folk. Her husband was an activist dating back to the 30s. He carried a gun as well. She admitts that non-violence worked well for the bus boycott, but she has never given up her belife that armed struggle could be nescessary.
Jump Jump Music hopes to have it in stock by Friday. Fair shipping costs to Canada and the rest of the world. I'm sure Baghat and STH will also ship it overseas for all you all.
Thanks for asking about my mom, all who did. She is doing great. 80 years old, they just ripped her gall bladder out. She is up and about and doing for herself.
I've gotten my copy and I can't tell all you all how much you need this.
On armed struggle.
What is worth fighting for? What is worth dying for?
I should think that my personal and my countrys freedom, democracy and justice are worth fighting, even taking up arms for.
The second amendment to the constitution of the United States Of America: [color:red] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [/color]
Gives each of us the right to form armies and defend our freedom.
There have been a few times in my life that freedom needed defending: November 2000. Presidential election stolen. Majority rule overturned, vote counting stopped by federal courts. I am ashamed to say I watched these events like they were a sporting event and not the darkest hour of our country.
In the 1970's, as a middle schooler, I joined the revolution against the Nixon administration in general, and the war in Viet Nam specifically. It was a time of decreasing civil and political rights. Goverment spying on citizens,and dirty tricks to win elections, and political arrests were at an all time high.
I did not take up arms, but I participated in 2 events that I am proud of: On November 3rd 1972 members of the American Indian Movement occupied the Bureau Of Indian Affairs Headquarters in Washington DC. To keep the police from attaking the building White suburban kids including me occupied the lawn around the building. The stand off lasted until the 9th and ended peacfully. I was not camped out for 6 days, I went down when I could skip school and I was home for supper.
On May 3rd 1971 I joined others in an attempt to end the war in Viet Nam by shutting down the goverment. 7,000 people were arrested that day including me. It was the largest mass arrest in the history of the US.
So am I ready today to take up arms? No. I would not make a good soldier. at about the same time these events happened I got in a school yard fight. A kid came up to me and started hitting me. I tried to fight back. For every 2 times he hit me in the face I hit him in the stomach once. Here I was being pummelled by a bullie who hated me for no apparent reason and I couldn't bring myself to hit him hard or in the face. There is no way I could gun. knife or bomb anyone.
I like to think that I did some good back in those days. Sadly, today we expect our goverment to spy on us. We expect politicians to engage in dirty tricks. We expect political arrests. American Indian treaties are still not being honored. We again find ourselves mired in an unjust war, wasting 1,000s of lives.
Still things would be much worse if people like the Vanguard Squad were not willing to stand up and say "we will not take it".
Dan
Welcome back, Dan. I just checked my e-mail (1st time) in 2 weeks and I replied. As soon as you get the albums, let me know.
JRoot and I have been carrying on a rather steamy backchannel conversation. The mysterious return by way of contribution is what started it ("dude, where the fuck have you been."), and his adventures in the south is where it went (I drove through the south on a music and university tour with my man I***c (imagine: driving three miles down coondog cemetery road, past the wild turkeys, and be-gunracked pick-ups, to the world's only coondog cemetery where you try to comfort your Jewish friend that even IF someone comes, they aren't going to know that he's Jewish unless we tell them and they aren't going to kill us or even beat the shit out of us, when you aren't sure of either + the record shops of Memphis, Jackson, Birmingham, Atlanta, Athens, Nashville, Muscle Shoals + Univeristy of Memphis (nee Memphis State), Ole Miss, UGA, UAB, Vandy)). That triple 9 post count has him shook. Awaiting the interstellar jumpoff (remember when we used to do that), he sent word from beyond, and I cut'n'paste (no2600):
[JRoot] [color:#666666]
Regarding the American south, it's an amazing place. Southern journalist and historian W.J. Cash set out to write the definitive apologia for southern culture in the first half of the 20th century. The end product, "The Mind of the South", is a classic of cultural-historical analysis, in part because he was a brilliant writer (living in the south "is sort of a cosmic conspiracy against reality in favor of romance" or something close to that, it's been ten years) and in part because the conclusions he reached were not so charitable. He also committed suicide shortly after the book was published in 1941. Dime-store gossip has it that the two things were related, and when the gossip is given to you by this man, I'll make an exception to my general disbelief. The conclusion that drove him into the grave was that southern culture was, in essence, a three-legged stool, with the three legs being: chivalry, agriculture, and slavery (white supremacy). Remove any one, and the culture collapses. A quarter of my ancestors (dad's mom) are from rural Georgia, so it's a place I'm from in some sense, and it's a place I remain curious about. I've lived among blacks in Atlanta and among whites in Alabama, but I still have so much to learn. Could it have happened anywhere else in the country but the South that on SEPTEMBER 14, 2001, someone would write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper in a small town that "the price-gouging of the yankee oil companies is worse than what happened in New York three days ago." Paying a buck-eighty for a gallon of gas was apparently treason to the Confederacy as it existed in 2001. Imagine how they feel now.
In short, it's a place I'd recommend visiting. In a car. With a schedule that allows you to stop wherever you feel like it. Such places may includes "Bucky's barbecue" (or something like that) in McKenzie, Alabama, where you will be served a pulled pork sandwich by a black person who is getting paid by a white person (who takes your money) who sees fit to put real confederate paper money in frames on the wall. Or the I-20 Sunday flea market near Heflin, Alabama, where you can buy scrap metal, guns, machine parts, bootleg outkast CDs (from a person studying for the Alabama bar), or, as I did, this album for fifty cents, from impoverished folks who etch out a living on the gray market slate. Or the (aforementioned) coon dog cemetery.
My package arrived yesterday. I gotta hand it to you guys on the hand packaging. Extremely well done and personal. Another solid soulstrut vinyl release. Keep up the good work.
Comments
yo for me, i gotta be honest here... you gotta fight fire w/ fire, if a muthafucker only understands guns for example, you better have a gun for that discussion, if he uses a picket sign, make your sign bigger etc etc...
it's like the old saying dont bring a knife to a gun fight, im 210% down to use whatever the fuck is at my disposal IF needed...
this 7" opens minds on both side of the coin & is up to them how they hear it & what they choose to do w/ it... the fact these brothers had the balls to put out such a strong message, imo shows how they fight the struggle through music!!! solid job guys...
if i believe in the shit im tryin to achieve, str8 up no question about it...
Yes, on the surface that is what it means. However, many of us choose not to think in such concrete terms.
And I think the question can only be answered when you're confronted with the ten-thousand things. Right then. When the decision needs to be made.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts. And I'd like to hear more.
I could sit on the internet and say I'm "ready", but I don't know what I'll be confronted with in my apartment. I think I'm more likely get into some shit if I'm holding a picket sign.
so on point, no one can really know what they'll do until they're in that situation, but that only begets more questions. the act of taking someone's life to achieve a political goal might be a spontaneous decision but the preparation and momentum required to end up in a position to be making that decision are far from spontaneous. revolutions don't just happen. how do you know how to prepare?
well i think we can all agree that the squads revolution has begun...
nuff spects due...
you look pretty fucking wasted for only drinking the neck of that bottle!
no doubt about that. now that the vangaurd is marching i can get back to bugging bam to get that evolution of styles shit out on wax too.
now theres gunz on the cover...
bombin'
thats how i tend to keep it...
peoples asking if peoples ready & willing to die for causes, im ready & willing... but if nuff peoples listen to the message behind this ep & what it does to help, alot of minds will open, some may lay down arms for picket signs & some may lie down picket signs for guns, bottom line is your music & your vision made this line of thinking possible & that's what i call a serious accomplishment... again i cant extend how hyped i am on this project & your dedication to helping GREAT causes...
peace to you both for having the courage to let your voice be heard...
drez
Jump Jump Music hopes to have it in stock by Friday. Fair shipping costs to Canada and the rest of the world. I'm sure Baghat and STH will also ship it overseas for all you all.
Thanks for asking about my mom, all who did. She is doing great. 80 years old, they just ripped her gall bladder out. She is up and about and doing for herself.
I've gotten my copy and I can't tell all you all how much you need this.
On armed struggle.
What is worth fighting for? What is worth dying for?
I should think that my personal and my countrys freedom, democracy and justice are worth fighting, even taking up arms for.
The second amendment to the constitution of the United States Of America:
[color:red] A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [/color]
Gives each of us the right to form armies and defend our freedom.
There have been a few times in my life that freedom needed defending:
November 2000. Presidential election stolen. Majority rule overturned, vote counting stopped by federal courts. I am ashamed to say I watched these events like they were a sporting event and not the darkest hour of our country.
In the 1970's, as a middle schooler, I joined the revolution against the Nixon administration in general, and the war in Viet Nam specifically. It was a time of decreasing civil and political rights. Goverment spying on citizens,and dirty tricks to win elections, and political arrests were at an all time high.
I did not take up arms, but I participated in 2 events that I am proud of:
On November 3rd 1972 members of the American Indian Movement occupied the Bureau Of Indian Affairs Headquarters in Washington DC. To keep the police from attaking the building White suburban kids including me occupied the lawn around the building. The stand off lasted until the 9th and ended peacfully. I was not camped out for 6 days, I went down when I could skip school and I was home for supper.
On May 3rd 1971 I joined others in an attempt to end the war in Viet Nam by shutting down the goverment. 7,000 people were arrested that day including me. It was the largest mass arrest in the history of the US.
So am I ready today to take up arms? No. I would not make a good soldier. at about the same time these events happened I got in a school yard fight. A kid came up to me and started hitting me. I tried to fight back. For every 2 times he hit me in the face I hit him in the stomach once. Here I was being pummelled by a bullie who hated me for no apparent reason and I couldn't bring myself to hit him hard or in the face. There is no way I could gun. knife or bomb anyone.
I like to think that I did some good back in those days. Sadly, today we expect our goverment to spy on us. We expect politicians to engage in dirty tricks. We expect political arrests. American Indian treaties are still not being honored. We again find ourselves mired in an unjust war, wasting 1,000s of lives.
Still things would be much worse if people like the Vanguard Squad were not willing to stand up and say "we will not take it".
Dan
Dan:
The Revolution will be topless.
VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!! VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!! VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!!
Thank you Dan.
I've been reading through some of the FOIA information and The Pentagon Papers dealing with the
Defense of South Vietnamthe War Against South Vietnam, and Noam Chomsky recently mentioned this in his blog (Noam is like the catchdubs of the 40+ crowd, yaom?).I had no authority over you. But I called you, and you came
It took years for the protests of Vietnam to develop. Thousands dead before anyone heard anything. My former boss (the same fellow who represented Cleaver) fought in Vietnam, and lost half of his arm in battle, commented that it was obvious to everyone on the front line that the ratio of Black soldiers to white was staggering. The Blacks were obviously being sent forward to fight/die.
This record
sums it up nicely (well, uglyly actually), but it took a Black reporter to go to Vietnam and tape record Black soldiers on the front line, come home, get the record picked, arranged, pressed, packaged, and distributed before the dissent was heard. By that time thousands had died.
Crucial times. Or as Eldridge said, If God himself would wield such misery for people whom I love... let's deal with him. I don't think this record is as much about whether we're ready to "pick up a gun" as it is about being aware, being critical and understanding our history.
It took years before protests against Vietnam began. Now, however, I get 15 - 20 action alerts a day, from truthout, corp watch, iraqbodycount, worldwide socialist web, The New Standard, Institute for Public Accuracy... Not to mention, I can log on to any arabic news site, watch live streaming vidoes, read Iraq blogs, etc.
Times have changed. From where I stand, I can clearly see your tormented faces. As Asprin's dude said, Looking at you all, I see passive fear, no martyrs are among you. Safe in the confines of your passitivity.
South Africa. Watts. Vietnam. East Timor. East Oakland. Detroit. Sudan.
While it looks like nothing has changed. Plenty has. But that passivity kills.
I don't feel attacked. Thank you for clarifying. Perhaps there is confusion on what "my words" were. I said the record is a reflection (as it samples speeches discussing two instances of armed resistance in history) of historic struggles, and, There comes a time when it is necessary to put down your picket sign and pick up a gun. That time is different for everyone. And everyone makes that decision differently. That decision is what this record is about.
Meaning, looking back through history, tracing the trajectory of a movement, it's easy to see the breaking point. Where pickets don't work. Where slogans don't work. Where protests don't work. When the decision to resist with arms is made.
It seems like you are reading that I am asking people to start shooting at stuff. I am not trying to encourage people to kill. But I'm certainly not discouraging them from being resistant. I realize the "message" of cover and the label can be taken literally, and that's fine. I can accept someone feeling like were inciting violence. It's going to mean ten-thousand things to ten-thousand people. Like Krishna's counsel in a time of war.
I could read the Bhagavad Gita and make an argument that it's counseling me to kill. Like those kids that kill and blame it on the Ozzy CD they were listening to. Of course, we're smarter than that. But it's an easy thing to say. My dude Charles was listening to Tupac on his way to kill himself. I smoke a blunt to take the pain out/ And if I wasn't high I'd probably try to blow my brains out. I blame ten-thousand things for Chuck's death, none of which include Tupac. People are going to think what they will, and I encourage that.
Revolution is not "showing" life to people, but bringing them to life. A revolutionary organization must always remember that its aim is not getting its adherents to listen to convincing talks by expert leaders, but getting them to speak for themselves, in order to achieve, or at least strive toward, an equal degree of participation.
--Guy Debord
Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. I praise and extol the serene courage of dying without killing. Yet I desire that those who have not this courage should rather cultivate the art of killing and being killed, then basely avoid the danger. This is because he who runs away commits mental violence; he has not the courage of facing death by killing. I would a thousand times prefer violence than the emasculation of a whole race. I prefer to use arms in defence of honor rather than remain the vile witness of dishonor.
--Mahatma Gandhi
If you don't take this kind of stand, your little children will grow up and look at you and think "shame." If you don't take an uncompromising stand, I don't mean go out and get violent; but at the same time you should never be nonviolent unless you run into some nonviolence. I'm nonviolent with those who are nonviolent with me. But when you drop that violence on me, then you've made me go insane, and I'm not responsible for what I do.
--Malcolm X
God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well-informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. What country ever before existed a century and a half without a rebellion. And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms! The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
--Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Col. William S. Smith, Paris, November 13, 1787
I am here by the will of the People; I shall leave only by the force of the bayonets.
--Mirabeau
I bring you the stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored from pirate raids in Kiao-Chou, Manchuria, South Africa, and the Philippines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies.
--Mark Twain
The oral tradition ??? stories, epics and songs of the people ??? which formerly were filed away as set pieces are now beginning to change. The story-tellers who used to relate inert episodes now bring them alive and introduce into them modifications which are increasingly fundamental. There is a tendency to bring conflicts up to date and to modernise the kinds of struggle which the stories evoke, together with the names of heroes and the types of weapons. The method of allusion is more and more widely used. The formula ???This all happened long ago??? is substituted by that of ???What we are to speak of happened somewhere else, but it might well have happened here today, and it might happen tomorrow.???
--Fanon
Rise like lions after slumber
In unvanquished number!
Shake your chains to earth, like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you???
Ye are many, they are few!
--Percy Bysshe Shelley
Ethiopia police battle students[/b]
Ethiopian police have clashed with students protesting over last month's elections for a second day in the capital, Addis Ababa.
The students threw rocks at the police who responded by storming a technical college and arresting about 100 people.
The students were beaten with batons and rifle butts by police, who also fired shots in the air, witnesses said.
On Monday, a girl died in clashes which began when students defied a ban on protests following the poll.
They accused the ruling Ethiopian People's Revolutionary Democratic Front (EPRDF) of rigging the elections.
Final results are not due until 8 July, to give the National Election Board time to investigate allegations of fraud.
'Scary'[/b]
The AP news agency reports that construction workers also threw stones at the police in support of the students.
"The police came running into the college, beating students and hitting them over their heads with their batons," said Liya Tsion, 17, a student of information technology.
"It was very scary and they were very aggressive and did not want to calm the situation down. It didn't last long, only five to 10 minutes, because we are young and they had guns and batons."
College Vice Principal Assefa Akirso said the police should have consulted teachers before storming the building.
Some 500 students were arrested on Monday.
Prime Minister Meles Zenawi banned all demonstrations after opposition allegations of fraud.
Opposition gains[/b]
The BBC's Mohammed Adow in Addis Ababa says tensions have been rising since the elections were held.
The opposition Coalition for Unity and Democracy (CUD) has denied government claims that it incited the students to protest.
According to provisional results, the EPRDF and its allies have won 320 seats so far giving it a majority in the 547-member parliament.
The opposition have, however, won almost 200 seats - a huge gain from the 12 they had in the previous parliament.
They won all the seats in Addis Ababa by a landslide.
EU observers have voiced concern over irregular vote counting and biased reports by the state-owned media.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/4617481.stm
Thanks Bam. T were thinking of your home today.
I read a lot of childrens lit. I just read a Rosa Parks bio, an as-told-to thing, for 5th, 6th graders.
I knew that Rosa had long been an activist when she refused to give up her seat on a Montgomery AL Bus.
I did not know that she did not share Martin Luther King's views on non-violence. Her dad (granddad?) kept a gun in the house to defend her family from White folk. Her husband was an activist dating back to the 30s. He carried a gun as well. She admitts that non-violence worked well for the bus boycott, but she has never given up her belife that armed struggle could be nescessary.
[JRoot] [color:#666666]
Regarding the American south, it's an amazing place. Southern journalist and historian W.J. Cash set out to write the definitive apologia for southern culture in the first half of the 20th century. The end product, "The Mind of the South", is a classic of cultural-historical analysis, in part because he was a brilliant writer (living in the south "is sort of a cosmic conspiracy against reality in favor of romance" or something close to that, it's been ten years) and in part because the conclusions he reached were not so charitable. He also committed suicide shortly after the book was published in 1941. Dime-store gossip has it that the two things were related, and when the gossip is given to you by this man, I'll make an exception to my general disbelief. The conclusion that drove him into the grave was that southern culture was, in essence, a three-legged stool, with the three legs being: chivalry, agriculture, and slavery (white supremacy). Remove any one, and the culture collapses. A quarter of my ancestors (dad's mom) are from rural Georgia, so it's a place I'm from in some sense, and it's a place I remain curious about. I've lived among blacks in Atlanta and among whites in Alabama, but I still have so much to learn. Could it have happened anywhere else in the country but the South that on SEPTEMBER 14, 2001, someone would write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper in a small town that "the price-gouging of the yankee oil companies is worse than what happened in New York three days ago." Paying a buck-eighty for a gallon of gas was apparently treason to the Confederacy as it existed in 2001. Imagine how they feel now.
In short, it's a place I'd recommend visiting. In a car. With a schedule that allows you to stop wherever you feel like it. Such places may includes "Bucky's barbecue" (or something like that) in McKenzie, Alabama, where you will be served a pulled pork sandwich by a black person who is getting paid by a white person (who takes your money) who sees fit to put real confederate paper money in frames on the wall. Or the I-20 Sunday flea market near Heflin, Alabama, where you can buy scrap metal, guns, machine parts, bootleg outkast CDs (from a person studying for the Alabama bar), or, as I did, this album for fifty cents, from impoverished folks who etch out a living on the gray market slate. Or the (aforementioned) coon dog cemetery.
Git up, git out and do somethin.
JRoot
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[/JRoot]
DJ Ferrari