King Tee's Triflin album was fucking dope. Then he waited ten bazillion years and dropped a forgettable record. The long wait between that album and the next killed his career. Not sure how Tha Triflin album sold, but it was a good album.
I have to major cosign this one. Triflin Album was off the chain on the west coast. 1991-92-93 were major years for Cali hip hop - WC & The MAAD Cirlce, Ice Cube, Pharcyde, Freestyle Fellowship, Cypress Hill, Del, Souls of Mischief, Lench Mob, Alkaholiks, and Ice-T continuing to kill it.
I feel like that was a time when peoples sophomore albums were BETTER than their debuts.
1) Why exactly was it thought that Big Daddy Kane "fell off"?
my man did a lot of half steppin' after those 1st two albums...
I thought he fell off after the first?
Nah, not really. The 1st album is the greater album (thanks in no small part to Marley Marl being on the boards- whether those Juice Crew dudes thinks he deserves the credit he got or not, there's clearly a difference in the sound of their records post Marley), but Kane's pinnacle of popularity was arguably during the It's A Big Daddy Thing time period. He still had the rhyme skills on that album (even though the beats weren't as dope IMO) plus he had hits like Smooth Operator, Warm It Up Kane, etc. All I know is that dude was doin' shows at that time with a lot of other a-list rappers on the bill and he was the one the crowds were going insane over- especially the chicks, of course. Unfortunately, this was also the time when he started making a lot of those bad career moves, making kane's reign on the top shorter than leprechauns
man, I WISH i could find a pic of what Kane, Scoob & Scrap were wearing at that award show... the very definition of
hommie's look in this video also drew many WTF's from the headz BITD...
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
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I agree. But... would you have said no?
I wish I could remember the exact quote from that Rap Pages interview where he was asked about that. Something along the lines of, "Someone calls you up and asks you if you wanna stick your finger up in a million-dollars-worth of pussy, how the fuck you gonna say no?"
I've been listening to a grip of hip-hop from the early '90s (nostalgia's a biiiiiittch) and was curious about a few things and was hoping to get some insights from folks who were remember these times:
1) Why exactly was it thought that Big Daddy Kane "fell off"? Was it with "Taste of Chocolate"? Or just his entire post-"It's a Big Daddy Thing" career? Honestly, listening to his 3rd and 4th albums...they weren't bad at all (by hindsight standards) but I remember by the mid-90s, Kane had basically become a cautionary tale for rappers of that generation.
2) At the height of his career, how "big" was King Tee? And why wasn't it bigger?
i never felt that taste of...i do believe tho kane was ahead of his time for that era. had that been poppin off during the puffy/mase era...maybe.
This album was actually, I believe, originally called Let & Let Die: the Movie. I've got an advance cassette somewhere where there's all this film dialog spliced intermittently b/t the songs to help give it some narrative cohesion (or maybe just b/c it sounded cool). Obviously clearing all that usage was impossible, so that's probably what held up L&LD's release. Thematically I don't think it's that great a departure from WDA - and the crime boss/gangster thing always had a presence in his music from as early as the Road to the Riches video. The production you just gotta chalk up to trend & remember how hot the West was at the time. Personally, I remember being disappointed by the record. "Ill Street Blues" wasn't even on the vinyl.
I remember reading an interview around that time where either Pooh or Polo said they had to re-record most of the songs too because they couldn't get the original samples cleared. In Rap Pages most likely.
When he finally got a Preemo beat ("Show & Prove") alongside Jay-Z, Sauce Money, ODB etc. w/ a chance to come back rejuvenated, he came up horribly short (Scoob Lover, inexplicably channeling B-Real's nasal voice, still managed to sound worse, tho ).
Scoob sounds fucking terrible. Reminds me of Third Eye on the "Dolly My Love" remix except that he shows up four times on I>Daddy's Home[/i].
This has to be one of the least satisfying posse cuts given the accumulated talent. Still cracks me up to hear Jay-Z during his zippity-ziggity flow phase.
1) Why exactly was it thought that Big Daddy Kane "fell off"? Was it with "Taste of Chocolate"? Or just his entire post-"It's a Big Daddy Thing" career?
Yeah he embraced R&B/Pimpin/Loverman at a time when cats werent ready. But no one would blink if somebody was to present themselves this way today. I feel he was before his time no matter how goofy it looked. Dudes can dress up now w/ a decent stylist a not be clowned.
The girl that I admire, one that I desire And no one can stop the feelings that you inspire The way that you leave me in this obsession With the chambers of my heart in your possession We were meant to be together, always and forever For that engagement, I shall endeavor Pray for the day that we combine And I can say for sure that youre truly mine In benevolence and reverence As soon as our relationship commence But for now, I wait impatiently For the day that you can give your all to me
The moment of truth is what I really should call it I worked so hard for it so please dont spoil it Yeah its a lot that Im asking you to give me Thats only because I need you with me Side by side, hand in hand You as my girl and kane as your man Bust it, ever since the first time that I seen her I wanted her to step inside my arena Id be the champion of love, wear the golden glove And show you what a real man is made of My feelings Im sharing because Im caring My heartll tell you why I am so endearing For a chance at romance I would love to enhance I would be your man under any circumstance Just as long as I can say that youre my own Your feelings for me and mine alone We can cherish every moment of the time we spent Try to take our love to the full extent The point that Im trying so hard to get through Is girl, Im in love with you
When he finally got a Preemo beat ("Show & Prove") alongside Jay-Z, Sauce Money, ODB etc. w/ a chance to come back rejuvenated, he came up horribly short (Scoob Lover, inexplicably channeling B-Real's nasal voice, still managed to sound worse, tho ).
Scoob sounds fucking terrible. Reminds me of Third Eye on the "Dolly My Love" remix except that he shows up four times on I>Daddy's Home[/i].
This has to be one of the least satisfying posse cuts given the accumulated talent. Still cracks me up to hear Jay-Z during his zippity-ziggity flow phase.
scoob sounds like... Eminem!?!
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
i hear ya. actually truth be told, i dont sleep on any old rap if the price is right (as some of my weekend find hauls earlier this fall attest to - there were some sprinkles o' doo doo in thar!)
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
Kane to this day still has his moments (although I'm sure this opinion will be shot down by someone here... this is Soulstrut, after all)
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
Kane to this day still has his moments (although I'm sure this opinion will be shot down by someone here... this is Soulstrut, after all)
The cipher wouldn't be complete without a little of that ol' Real Head sense of victimization.
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
Kane to this day still has his moments (although I'm sure this opinion will be shot down by someone here... this is Soulstrut, after all)
The cipher wouldn't be complete without a little of that ol' Real Head sense of victimization.
...or Faux chiming in to note on said Real Head sense of victimization.
...or someone chiming in to note Faux's chiming in.
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
Kane to this day still has his moments (although I'm sure this opinion will be shot down by someone here... this is Soulstrut, after all)
The cipher wouldn't be complete without a little of that ol' Real Head sense of victimization.
...or Faux chiming in to note on said Real Head sense of victimization.
...or someone chiming in to note Faux's chiming in.
this fellow really wants it with me, doesn't he?
did you say that you'd be going to see Dreamgirls on 125th st on Xmas, faux? that's nice. have a good time! maybe i'll have somebody pass through to say hello to you
I wish I could remember the exact quote from that Rap Pages interview where he was asked about that. Something along the lines of, "Someone calls you up and asks you if you wanna stick your finger up in a million-dollars-worth of pussy, how the fuck you gonna say no?"
Yeah, I remember that interview. He also said he had tried to get Pete Rock to do some beats for his album (I think it was Looks Like a Job For...), but Pete had quoted him some ridiculously high rate for one track, and he got like five Trackmasters beats for the same price. Whether or not he made the right call in getting 5 Trackmasters cuts vs. one Pete Rock cut is...well, questionable.
There was a picture of him lying in bed with a rifle in his hand as well. I'm not sure if that was or just plain weird.
I'm surprised at the lack of love for Taste Of Chocolate. It was way more consistant than Prince of Darkness or Looks Like A Job For...
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
madonna sex book
I agree. But... would you have said no?
I wish I could remember the exact quote from that Rap Pages interview where he was asked about that. Something along the lines of, "Someone calls you up and asks you if you wanna stick your finger up in a million-dollars-worth of pussy, how the fuck you gonna say no?"
Yeah, I remember that interview. He also said he had tried to get Pete Rock to do some beats for his album (I think it was Looks Like a Job For...), but Pete had quoted him some ridiculously high rate for one track, and he got like five Trackmasters beats for the same price. Whether or not he made the right call in getting 5 Trackmasters cuts vs. one Pete Rock cut is...well, questionable.
There was a picture of him lying in bed with a rifle in his hand as well. I'm not sure if that was or just plain weird.
I actually thought some of those Trackmasters beats were pretty good, as it goes. This was back when Tone was still calling himself Red Hot Lover Tone (or Red Hot Lover Lover Tone, even), and they were still very much on the up as far as beatmaking/production was concerned. I have to hand it to them, though - when they blew up by sampling all those eighties r&b/pop joints, I wasn't really feeling much of what they did, but the passage of time proved it to be something of a game-changing move.
Definitely agree that Kane`s later LP`s had to be listened to with some quality control - but he did have some good tracks in there. The tracks chosen for singles on the later LP`s were the wack ones(very special etc..) I think this had an eefect on how Kane was viewed.
Did no-one else like 'the beef is on'???? Everyone forgotten about Platinum Plus??
Agreed. His fall-off may have been abrupt and disappointing, but it doesn't erase the amazing quality of his earlier work.
I'm going to question the idea of "fall-off". Yeah he wasnt selling as much. Magazines clowned him, but he reminds me of Dominique Wilkins on the Boston Celtics. Kane was still productive, just not the all star he once was, or expected to continue to be. He's even got 2 or 3 joints on Veteranz Day. So the general public moves on but real basketball heads recognize.
Shit,that whole Juice Crew didnt really keep up with the big charters. G Rap's 456 aint that much better than Kane's stuff.
Yeah but the whole thing is... the "fall off" aspect wasn't because he no longer could make a good song but because he was doing so much questionable shit that was just such a terrible look for a hardcore rapper in the 80s/90s that nobody would fuck with him...
There are certainly artists who lose the ability to make good records, but Kane wasn't that - he just started making records that were highly suspect and not at all what his fanbase was looking for...
Agreed. His fall-off may have been abrupt and disappointing, but it doesn't erase the amazing quality of his earlier work.
I'm going to question the idea of "fall-off". Yeah he wasnt selling as much. Magazines clowned him, but he reminds me of Dominique Wilkins on the Boston Celtics. Kane was still productive, just not the all star he once was, or expected to continue to be. He's even got 2 or 3 joints on Veteranz Day. So the general public moves on but real basketball heads recognize.
Shit,that whole Juice Crew didnt really keep up with the big charters. G Rap's 456 aint that much better than Kane's stuff.
Real Head Rationalization???
It was a falloff--the only thing arguable was how drastic it was.
Ill have to say that i dont own any albums after the 2nd joint, but i remember listening to them and still finding bangers. My peers/peeps had moved on to other artists, but still gave Kane the benefit of the doubt as an mc, despite the albums as a whole being weak.
When Taste Of Chalkline came out, someone told me about the aids rumour- (Imaginary Oprah interview). Then that Barry White collabo came out too. I was clowning my homie who was a diehard fan about his gear and shit.
Comments
I have to major cosign this one. Triflin Album was off the chain on the west coast. 1991-92-93 were major years for Cali hip hop - WC & The MAAD Cirlce, Ice Cube, Pharcyde, Freestyle Fellowship, Cypress Hill, Del, Souls of Mischief, Lench Mob, Alkaholiks, and Ice-T continuing to kill it.
I feel like that was a time when peoples sophomore albums were BETTER than their debuts.
Nah, not really. The 1st album is the greater album (thanks in no small part to Marley Marl being on the boards- whether those Juice Crew dudes thinks he deserves the credit he got or not, there's clearly a difference in the sound of their records post Marley), but Kane's pinnacle of popularity was arguably during the It's A Big Daddy Thing time period. He still had the rhyme skills on that album (even though the beats weren't as dope IMO) plus he had hits like Smooth Operator, Warm It Up Kane, etc. All I know is that dude was doin' shows at that time with a lot of other a-list rappers on the bill and he was the one the crowds were going insane over- especially the chicks, of course. Unfortunately, this was also the time when he started making a lot of those bad career moves, making kane's reign on the top shorter than leprechauns
man, I WISH i could find a pic of what Kane, Scoob & Scrap were wearing at that award show... the very definition of
hommie's look in this video also drew many WTF's from the headz BITD...
I wish I could remember the exact quote from that Rap Pages interview where he was asked about that. Something along the lines of, "Someone calls you up and asks you if you wanna stick your finger up in a million-dollars-worth of pussy, how the fuck you gonna say no?"
i never felt that taste of...i do believe tho kane was ahead of his time for that era. had that been poppin off during the puffy/mase era...maybe.
I remember reading an interview around that time where either Pooh or Polo said they had to re-record most of the songs too because they couldn't get the original samples cleared. In Rap Pages most likely.
You're not kidding.
Scoob sounds fucking terrible. Reminds me of Third Eye on the "Dolly My Love" remix except that he shows up four times on I>Daddy's Home[/i].
This has to be one of the least satisfying posse cuts given the accumulated talent. Still cracks me up to hear Jay-Z during his zippity-ziggity flow phase.
Still, Shop Shammin' is still one of my favorite tracks of his. puts How U... and Show & Prove to shame.
Yeah he embraced R&B/Pimpin/Loverman at a time when cats werent ready.
But no one would blink if somebody was to present themselves this way today. I feel he was before his time no matter how goofy it looked. Dudes can dress up now w/ a decent stylist a not be clowned.
The girl that I admire, one that I desire
And no one can stop the feelings that you inspire
The way that you leave me in this obsession
With the chambers of my heart in your possession
We were meant to be together, always and forever
For that engagement, I shall endeavor
Pray for the day that we combine
And I can say for sure that youre truly mine
In benevolence and reverence
As soon as our relationship commence
But for now, I wait impatiently
For the day that you can give your all to me
The moment of truth is what I really should call it
I worked so hard for it so please dont spoil it
Yeah its a lot that Im asking you to give me
Thats only because I need you with me
Side by side, hand in hand
You as my girl and kane as your man
Bust it, ever since the first time that I seen her
I wanted her to step inside my arena
Id be the champion of love, wear the golden glove
And show you what a real man is made of
My feelings Im sharing because Im caring
My heartll tell you why I am so endearing
For a chance at romance I would love to enhance
I would be your man under any circumstance
Just as long as I can say that youre my own
Your feelings for me and mine alone
We can cherish every moment of the time we spent
Try to take our love to the full extent
The point that Im trying so hard to get through
Is girl, Im in love with you
scoob sounds like... Eminem!?!
jay-z on the das efx style?!? ODB is the only entertaining part (naturally). im glad i shied away from the post its a big daddy thing stuff. i must have seen those album covers and thought 'mmmm... no'
His 3rd through 5th albums all have a small amounts of heat. Dont sleep.
Worth revisiting though: not everything was as painful as "Show and Prove."
To wit:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/who-am-i-mp3.html (off "Taste of Chocolate")
http://www.zshare.net/audio/death-sentence-mp3.html (off "Prince of Darkness")
i hear ya. actually truth be told, i dont sleep on any old rap if the price is right (as some of my weekend find hauls earlier this fall attest to - there were some sprinkles o' doo doo in thar!)
Kane to this day still has his moments (although I'm sure this opinion will be shot down by someone here... this is Soulstrut, after all)
The cipher wouldn't be complete without a little of that ol' Real Head sense of victimization.
...or Faux chiming in to note on said Real Head sense of victimization.
...or someone chiming in to note Faux's chiming in.
Rest In Peace =
this fellow really wants it with me, doesn't he?
did you say that you'd be going to see Dreamgirls on 125th st on Xmas, faux? that's nice. have a good time! maybe i'll have somebody pass through to say hello to you
Yeah, I remember that interview. He also said he had tried to get Pete Rock to do some beats for his album (I think it was Looks Like a Job For...), but Pete had quoted him some ridiculously high rate for one track, and he got like five Trackmasters beats for the same price. Whether or not he made the right call in getting 5 Trackmasters cuts vs. one Pete Rock cut is...well, questionable.
There was a picture of him lying in bed with a rifle in his hand as well. I'm not sure if that was
I actually thought some of those Trackmasters beats were pretty good, as it goes. This was back when Tone was still calling himself Red Hot Lover Tone (or Red Hot Lover Lover Tone, even), and they were still very much on the up as far as beatmaking/production was concerned. I have to hand it to them, though - when they blew up by sampling all those eighties r&b/pop joints, I wasn't really feeling much of what they did, but the passage of time proved it to be something of a game-changing move.
Taste Of Chocolate isnt a trash album at all. Cats were still talkin 'bout Kane then positively and negatively.
The tracks chosen for singles on the later LP`s were the wack ones(very special etc..) I think this had an eefect on how Kane was viewed.
Did no-one else like 'the beef is on'????
Everyone forgotten about Platinum Plus??
I still make him one of the GOATS..
Agreed. His fall-off may have been abrupt and disappointing, but it doesn't erase the amazing quality of his earlier work.
I'm going to question the idea of "fall-off". Yeah he wasnt selling as much. Magazines clowned him, but he reminds me of Dominique Wilkins on the Boston Celtics. Kane was still productive, just not the all star he once was, or expected to continue to be. He's even got 2 or 3 joints on Veteranz Day. So the general public moves on but real basketball heads recognize.
Shit,that whole Juice Crew didnt really keep up with the big charters.
G Rap's 456 aint that much better than Kane's stuff.
There are certainly artists who lose the ability to make good records, but Kane wasn't that - he just started making records that were highly suspect and not at all what his fanbase was looking for...
Real Head Rationalization???
It was a falloff--the only thing arguable was how drastic it was.
When Taste Of Chalkline came out, someone told me about the aids rumour- (Imaginary Oprah interview).
Then that Barry White collabo came out too. I was clowning my homie who was a diehard fan about his gear and shit.