Tom Waits

The_NonThe_Non 5,688 Posts
edited April 2016 in Music Talk
Tom Waits sucks. Freals. Big time. Like up on my charts of suckitude. The same thing happened with my girl today watching the Daily Show that happened upon my first listening of Tom Waits. i.e. She thought his music was a joke. But then you keep listening, and it keeps going and you realize it's not. What the fuck is up with his music? Fans, plaese explain. I'm always curious what appeal music I despise has to fans. PeaceT.N.
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  • I think this guy sucks too.

    They just had a "I love Tom Waits" thread on Waxidermy a few weeks ago and I was like whatever. Tom Waits is white man black music for white boys.

    He is so busy lifting Screaming Jay Hawkins, Howlin Wolf, Harry Partch, the Beat Poets and every other freak, okie and black man that ever made music that he does not even know who he is as an artist.

    This is my opinion and nothing is going to change my mind. I saw him perform in the late 80's twice before I understood his references and thought he was amazing. I had all his albums too.

    Now that I understand his references and how exagerated the man is I just can't stand him.

    He is a talented and interesting guy for sure but it is just an issue of taste and pilosophy.

    You see I generally don't like white artists who try to be black... With the exception for Zep of course.

    ap

  • nahh, I'll put on "Nighthawks at the diner" anyday ..

    Laurette: [to Zack] Because you... because you don't take care of me... ya don't want me... ya don't wanna make any fucking commitment to me... I'VE *FINISHED* WITH YOU, ZACK! I've completely *finished* with you! Why doncha just go find some other li'l girl... I mean... that shouldn't be too difficult for you! I'm FED UP with you and YOUR FUCKIN' STUPID RADIO SHOWS!
    kicks79

  • roistoroisto 850 Posts
    He is so busy lifting Screaming Jay Hawkins, Howlin Wolf, Harry Partch, the Beat Poets and every other freak, okie and black man that ever made music that he does not even know who he is as an artist.

    This is my opinion and nothing is going to change my mind. I saw him perform in the late 80's twice before I understood his references and thought he was amazing. I had all his albums too.

    Now that I understand his references and how exagerated the man is I just can't stand him.

    I couldn't care less about what his references are. Tom Waits is great!

    I can enjoy a good modal jazz LP even though on 99% of them the "references" are obvious.

    I can dig Sun Ra "referencing" Art Tatum, Earl Hines and Duke.

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts
    the only waits i have listened to in the last decade was
    "heart of saturday night"
    and that was for sentimental reasons

    i have several friends who put him on a level with dylan

    ?

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    I think this guy sucks too.

    They just had a "I love Tom Waits" thread on Waxidermy a few weeks ago and I was like whatever. Tom Waits is white man black music for white boys.

    He is so busy lifting Screaming Jay Hawkins, Howlin Wolf, Harry Partch, the Beat Poets and every other freak, okie and black man that ever made music that he does not even know who he is as an artist.

    This is my opinion and nothing is going to change my mind. I saw him perform in the late 80's twice before I understood his references and thought he was amazing. I had all his albums too.

    Now that I understand his references and how exagerated the man is I just can't stand him.

    He is a talented and interesting guy for sure but it is just an issue of taste and pilosophy.

    You see I generally don't like white artists who try to be black... With the exception for Zep of course.

    ap

    Only on this board would Tom Waits be reduced to a white man playing black boy music for white boys.

  • JBCJBC 25 Posts
    I think he's a good song writer:

    Young Abdel Mahdi (Shahmay) was only 18 years old,
    He was the youngest of nine children, never spent a night away from home.
    And his mother held his photograph, opening the New York Times
    To see the killing has intensified along the road to peace

    There was a tall, thin boy with a whispy moustache disguised as an orthodox Jew
    On a crowded bus in Jerusalem, some had survived World War Two
    And the thunderous explosion blew out windows 200 yards away
    With more retribution and seventeen dead along the road to peace

    Now at King George Ave and Jaffa Road passengers boarded bus 14a
    In the aisle next to the driver Abdel Mahdi (Shahmay)
    And the last thing that he said on earth is "God is great and God is good"
    And he blew them all to kingdom come upon the road to peace

    Now in response to this another kiss of death was visited upon
    Yasser Taha, Israel says is an Hamas senior militant
    And Israel sent four choppers in, flames engulfed, tears wide open
    And it killed his wife and his three year old child leaving only blackened skeletons

    It's found his toddlers bottle and a pair of small shoes and they waved them in front of the cameras
    But Israel says they did not know that his wife and child were in the car
    There are roadblocks everywhere and only suffering on TV
    Neither side will ever give up their smallest right along the road to peace

    Israel launched it's latest campaign against Hamas on Tuesday
    Two days later Hamas shot back and killed five Israeli soldiers
    So thousands dead and wounded on both sides most of them middle eastern civilians
    They fill the children full of hate to fight an old man's war and die upon the road to peace

    "And this is our land we will fight with all our force" say the Palastinians and the Jews
    Each side will cut off the hand of anyone who tries to stop the resistance
    If the right eye offends thee then you must pluck it out
    And Mahmoud Abbas said Sharon had been lost out along the road to peace

    Once Kissinger said "we have no friends, America only has interests"
    Now our president wants to be seen as a hero and he's hungry for re-election
    But Bush is reluctant to risk his future in the fear of his political failures
    So he plays chess at his desk and poses for the press 10,000 miles from the road to peace

    In the video that they found at the home of Abdel Mahdi (Shahmay)
    He held a Kalashnikov rifle and he spoke with a voice like a boy
    He was an excellent student, he studied so hard, it was as if he had a future
    He told his mother that he had a test that day out along the road to peace

    The fundamentalist killing on both sides is standing in the path of peace
    But tell me why are we arming the Israeli army with guns and tanks and bullets?
    And if God is great and God is good why can't he change the hearts of men?
    Well maybe God himself is lost and needs help
    Maybe God himself he needs all of our help
    Maybe God himself is lost and needs help
    He's out upon the road to peace

    Well maybe God himself is lost and needs help
    Maybe God himself he needs all of our help
    And he's lost upon the road to peace
    And he's lost upon the road to peace
    Out upon the road to peace.

  • FatbackFatback 6,746 Posts
    Shut up






    Actually, AP, his phrasing on his ealry records is entirely lifted off Satch.

  • DrJoelDrJoel 932 Posts
    Heresy.







    You guys don't like hip hop or something either.

  • DrJoelDrJoel 932 Posts
    Tom Waits sucks. Freals. Big time. Like up on my charts of suckitude. The same thing happened with my girl today watching the Daily Show that happened upon my first listening of Tom Waits.

    i.e. She thought his music was a joke. But then you keep listening, and it keeps going and you realize it's not. What the fuck is up with his music?

    Fans, plaese explain. I'm always curious what appeal music I despise has to fans.

    Peace
    T.N.

    What stuff of his do you despise, the stuff on homemade and salvaged instruments, the folk stuff, the rock based stuff, the piano stuff, the story / broadway nightmare stuff or all of it together for some reason? Tom Waits early 70s sounds drastically different than Tom Waits late 70s. Plus there's 25 years of material after that to hate on. So what exactly makes all of it "Suck F'reals"? I guess that'd be a good place to start.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    Tom Waits sucks. Freals. Big time. Like up on my charts of suckitude. The same thing happened with my girl today watching the Daily Show that happened upon my first listening of Tom Waits.

    i.e. She thought his music was a joke. But then you keep listening, and it keeps going and you realize it's not. What the fuck is up with his music?

    Fans, plaese explain. I'm always curious what appeal music I despise has to fans.

    Peace
    T.N.

    What stuff of his do you despise, the stuff on homemade and salvaged instruments, the folk stuff, the rock based stuff, the piano stuff, the story / broadway nightmare stuff or all of it together for some reason? Tom Waits early 70s sounds drastically different than Tom Waits late 70s. Plus there's 25 years of material after that to hate on. So what exactly makes all of it "Suck F'reals"? I guess that'd be a good place to start.


  • Tom Waits sucks. Freals. Big time. Like up on my charts of suckitude. The same thing happened with my girl today watching the Daily Show that happened upon my first listening of Tom Waits.

    i.e. She thought his music was a joke. But then you keep listening, and it keeps going and you realize it's not. What the fuck is up with his music?

    Fans, plaese explain. I'm always curious what appeal music I despise has to fans.

    Peace
    T.N.

    What stuff of his do you despise, the stuff on homemade and salvaged instruments, the folk stuff, the rock based stuff, the piano stuff, the story / broadway nightmare stuff or all of it together for some reason? Tom Waits early 70s sounds drastically different than Tom Waits late 70s. Plus there's 25 years of material after that to hate on. So what exactly makes all of it "Suck F'reals"? I guess that'd be a good place to start.

    i dont know what era the stuff i heard was but that shit sucked f'reals, i will walk right back out of a record store if that shit is playing

    i really think he is one of those things that people like because they think they should

  • DrJoelDrJoel 932 Posts
    Tom Waits sucks. Freals. Big time. Like up on my charts of suckitude. The same thing happened with my girl today watching the Daily Show that happened upon my first listening of Tom Waits.

    i.e. She thought his music was a joke. But then you keep listening, and it keeps going and you realize it's not. What the fuck is up with his music?

    Fans, plaese explain. I'm always curious what appeal music I despise has to fans.

    Peace
    T.N.

    What stuff of his do you despise, the stuff on homemade and salvaged instruments, the folk stuff, the rock based stuff, the piano stuff, the story / broadway nightmare stuff or all of it together for some reason? Tom Waits early 70s sounds drastically different than Tom Waits late 70s. Plus there's 25 years of material after that to hate on. So what exactly makes all of it "Suck F'reals"? I guess that'd be a good place to start.

    i dont know what era the stuff i heard was but that shit sucked f'reals, i will walk right back out of a record store if that shit is playing

    i really think he is one of those things that people like because they think they should

    Sorry man, but i really think that's incorrect. I'm sure the more out there, abrasive, mumbling/rambling stuff is a turn off to a lot of people but there is a lot more to his music than that.

    I know what you mean, the thing about liking something because people think they should and i'm sure that applies to many people, but at the same time sitting in 2006 and saying it all sucks because of something you heard sometime or a couple times isn't grounds for much of an opinion on it. I'm not saying it's all the greatest stuff ever, but there is a lot to choose from. I certainly respect someone who is in a position to make all of their different ambitions and experiemnts realized and put them out there. It's like anything else in the music world or the art world.

    I tire of armchair critics coming off unimpressed by everything unless its the best thing ever. The invariable, "It wasn't his best work" or "Far from a masterpiece" attitude that pops up all the time in movie and music threads here kind of gets tired quick. Every album that comes out can't be the best thing on earth. Same for movies. Art is put out there to be enjoyed as art not reacted to like a sports event.

  • Birdman9Birdman9 5,417 Posts
    Shut up




    First CD I ever bought, circa 1986. Ironically, I long ago sold it, but still have my vinyl copy and still love it.

    I don't 'get' a lot of Tom waits stuff (not big into the theatrical, Berlin-cabaret influenced stuff, or his noisy experiments), but I dig a lot of his records. And in this day of willfully blissful conformity to trends and what have you, a guy who tries and succeeds in NOT repeating himself over and over on record....well I have to give props.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    At least you guys are discussing something interesting here. Last week on Waxidermy I got ripped a new one for dissing the Eagles, ELO, and REO Speedwagon.


  • Lots of people I respect dig him. I have always thought him to be colossal shuck, possibly a gigantic in-joke (on which I am not in)....

  • i don't care about influences; if you can take all those and make something new, than that is art. who cares if you hear some satchmo, blues, whatever in there...now, it is Tom Waits.

    also, i'm with Dr. Joel...why hate an artist who is constanly trying to reinvent their sound, discarding the old and starting anew? what is to hate in the idea of not resting on one's successes? I don't get this either.

    finally, my thoughts on Tom: I hardly ever listen to his music, having grown out of a lot of it. I'll still call up a few tunes once or twice a year ("Cold, Cold Ground,"). But, to dismiss it all as derivative or hot garbage is silly.

  • ahhh ya bunch of hatters...

    "cold cold ground" is brilliant

    and "goin out west" might be the best rock song of the 90s...it certainly has the best lyrics...

    dude in concert is entertaiing as hell, his little monolouges are funny as hell, charms and works a crowd...something 90% of all live performers today have forgotten how to do

    I dont see how you can hate on the guy...

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,688 Posts
    For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke. That's why I was asking his fans what they like. I was wondering if it was ironic fandom, like Mrs Miller or something. His music is pretentious, boring, and drab. I've played all his records before I sell them to see what it is about him that attracts people. It's awful. And not just awful, god awful. His musical inclinations are boring, poorly executed, and badly presented. He should stick to acting. The only redeeming qualities I can see are some lyrical depth and his backup bands.

    I actually am curious and was not intending this thread to start a dissfest. I genuinely want to know his appeal.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,688 Posts
    also, i'm with Dr. Joel...why hate an artist who is constanly trying to reinvent their sound, discarding the old and starting anew? what is to hate in the idea of not resting on one's successes? I don't get this either.

    Doing this, and doing it well are two different things.
    Tom Waits can't hold Prince's jockstrap in a suitcase using a forklift.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    i don't care about influences; if you can take all those and make something new, than that is art.

    I agree. But really, if you rule out people who show their influences, you rule out most music. But I know Anthony is on some personal musical journey that has him listening to only south east asian nose flute records, so whatever.

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Unlike, say, Howlin' Wolf?

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,688 Posts
    Bad singing + no soul=no go

    That is definitely a personal opinion though, so, whatever.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,386 Posts
    also, i'm with Dr. Joel...why hate an artist who is constanly trying to reinvent their sound, discarding the old and starting anew? what is to hate in the idea of not resting on one's successes? I don't get this either.

    Doing this, and doing it well are two different things.
    Tom Waits can't hold Prince's jockstrap in a suitcase using a forklift.

    Comparing Prince to Tom Waits is a pretty fucking pointless exercise but that's a nice picture you just painted.

  • For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Unlike, say, Howlin' Wolf?

    Yes, unlike Howlin' Wolf who could sing. Shame on you Jeff.....

  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Unlike, say, Howlin' Wolf?

    Yes, unlike Howlin' Wolf who could sing[/b]. Shame on you Jeff.....

    no, I love howlin wolf. I was just being a smart ass. sorry.

  • DrJoelDrJoel 932 Posts
    For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Do you like Bobby Blue Bland?

    His snort is kind of god awful sometimes, but he has a deep pot to draw from.

    I know you weren't trying to start a big thing, but for me opening the thread the three posts in a row or whatever that just say, "This guy sucks, etc etc etc" warrants a few words from the other side. If you don't want lengthy debate, i'd stay away from phrases like, "Suckitude" and things like that if you are just trying to make a point or ask a question.

  • For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Unlike, say, Howlin' Wolf?

    Yes, unlike Howlin' Wolf who could sing. Shame on you Jeff.....

    no, I love howlin wolf. I was just being a smart ass. sorry.

    Do not mess with the Wolf....



  • hcrinkhcrink 8,729 Posts
    For starters, he can't sing. He sings poorly, almost like a joke.

    Unlike, say, Howlin' Wolf?

    Yes, unlike Howlin' Wolf who could sing. Shame on you Jeff.....

    no, I love howlin wolf. I was just being a smart ass. sorry.

    Do not mess with the Wolf....



    The non is always hattin' on my favorite singers. I have a feeling hell will be the backseat of a car where he always has shotgun and control of the stereo.

  • Swordfishtrombones, Frank's Wild Years, Small Change, The Early Years, and Heart of Saturday Night are all albums that I really love.

    For some reason, I never checked for his later stuff, but I think that says more about my own musical idiosyncracies than anything else. I tend to buy specific periods of an artist's work, then ignore later stuff, either because I'm kind of over them, yet still attached to their earlier stuff (if that even makes sense), or because I don't wanna hear their "new direction."

    Maybe I should re-think that policy.

  • deejdeej 5,124 Posts
    Swordfishtrombones, Frank's Wild Years, Small Change, The Early Years, and Heart of Saturday Night are all albums that I really love.

    For some reason, I never checked for his later stuff, but I think that says more about my own musical idiosyncracies than anything else. I tend to buy specific periods of an artist's work, then ignore later stuff, either because I'm kind of over them, yet still attached to their earlier stuff (if that even makes sense), or because I don't wanna hear their "new direction."

    Maybe I should re-think that policy.
    No Rain Dogs?
    I like Blood Money & Alice, v. theatrical
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