Funny you should bring this song up. Its actually the title of a John LeCarre novel (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy). Now, having this bit of info, does it change your opinion of this song? If so, why/why not?
No, it doesn't change my opinion of the song in the least. It just makes me think that perhaps he's a bit better read than me.
I actually like that he's making a literary reference in the title. Thanks for that tidbit.
Ultimately, that song, to me, is about how one's life can be reduced to "a box of things," including, but not limited to, a rusted jackknife and a fuseless radio. And therein lies the heartbreak.
Ultimately, that song, to me, is about how one's life can be reduced to "a box of things," including, but not limited to, a rusted jackknife and a fuseless radio. And therein lies the heartbreak.
This thread is such a - it's unbelievable!! He's no phony-baloney blues singer? He's one of the best American songwriters period!
I'm talking Cole Porter, Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams, Dylan, Springsteen...uh James Brown. He is that good. I can see being turned off by the delivery or even some of the more "theatrical" stuff - but please he's got songs that make men cry. Not to mention an uncompromising artist- which is such a rarity these days that I can't believe that the people on this board wouldn't at least support that?
Ultimately, that song, to me, is about how one's life can be reduced to "a box of things," including, but not limited to, a rusted jackknife and a fuseless radio. And therein lies the heartbreak.
And for sale, no less.
his story songs are great..."Martha," is the saddest tune EVAR...Hell, even though Blue Valentines kind of blows, "Christmas Card from a Hooker in Minneapolis," is a bonafide classic.
Equating Tom Waits with Cole Porter, Woody Guthrie and Hank Williams isn't going to win you any ribbons at the Credibility Fair...Even Waits would probably laugh off comparisons like that.
I'm really dissapointed/surprised in the hate towards Waits. I just assumed everyone knew; Tom Waits: GOOD - Almost everyone else:BAD. Guess not?
He does equate to Porter/Guthrie/Williams in my opinion - but then again, it's my opinion.
Like most everyone else, I also don't understand this guy. AP, you're speaking what's on my mind right now. Larry, that in-joke comment was on point.
I can't believe anyone would put this guy up there with Dylan. Aside from them sharing what is considered a bad singing voice, at least Dylan is listenable, and I even like his voice on "Blood on the Tracks," which, in its torn up way, sounds right for the album. I think he does a good job on "Nashville," as well.
yeah...well, i USED to listen to Bob Dylan, until I realized he was just some product of Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie, The Hawks, and some waybetter70s outlaw country. Hell, he stole the moustache from some Dashiell Hammett!
Now, I just can't listen to him...
(do you see how silly that looks in print?)
I'm not sure what your point is, here.
For the record, I like Waits's lyrics a lot--what I've read--but I can't really stand his voice or sloppy musicianship.
I wasn't trying to snow under Tom Waits, instead, to put him in a proper context of what I think are the real giants of the swivel stool bar. Feel free to disagree.
Like most everyone else, I also don't understand this guy. AP, you're speaking what's on my mind right now. Larry, that in-joke comment was on point.
I can't believe anyone would put this guy up there with Dylan. Aside from them sharing what is considered a bad singing voice, at least Dylan is listenable, and I even like his voice on "Blood on the Tracks," which, in its torn up way, sounds right for the album. I think he does a good job on "Nashville," as well.
yeah...well, i USED to listen to Bob Dylan, until I realized he was just some product of Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie, The Hawks, and some waybetter70s outlaw country. Hell, he stole the moustache from some Dashiell Hammett!
Now, I just can't listen to him...
(do you see how silly that looks in print?)
I'm not sure what your point is, here.
For the record, I like Waits's lyrics a lot--what I've read--but I can't really stand his voice or sloppy musicianship.
I wasn't trying to snow under Tom Waits, instead, to put him in a proper context of what I think are the real giants of the swivel stool bar. Feel free to disagree.
Well, you said that you agreed with AP; and he said he couldn't listen to Waits because he is just the sum of his influences.
Then, you brought up Dylan.
So I took what you said, and combined it with AP's point which you say was echoing your thoughts, (which I disagreed with); i then added a little smartass for acidity and Soulstrut pallatability, and *zing*
It really enhances the listening experience when you remove the asscheeks surrounding your ears.
Hey guy, you should write for a living, very eloquent and highbrow. Really gets to the heart of the matter of why Tom Waits fans like Tom Waits.
Meanwhile, I dunno why people who live in the real world could get so (seemingly) angry about a topic like this. I find it just as puzzling as the fandom for Tom Waits. I was curious and have gotten some answers, but the majority of posts have stated such things as "he rules" and "you are an asshole for not liking him."
It really enhances the listening experience when you remove the asscheeks surrounding your ears.
Hey guy, you should write for a living, very eloquent and highbrow. Really gets to the heart of the matter of why Tom Waits fans like Tom Waits.
Meanwhile, I dunno why people who live in the real world could get so (seemingly) angry about a topic like this. I find it just as puzzling as the fandom for Tom Waits. I was curious and have gotten some answers, but the majority of posts have stated such things as "he rules" and "you are an asshole for not liking him."
I think my comments reflected, pretty accurately, the level at which you approached the topic.
at least AP is coming from informed perspective--whereas, almost everyone 'agreeing' with him are completely clueless.
Sloppy musicianship, untalented songwriting, and 'bad' singing are not valid criticisms of Tom Waits PERIOD
As to the authenticity debate, I'm pretty much in agreement with deej, that his whole musical attitude is that of theatre, putting on a show, creating characters and acting out their stories via song. It's not meant to be taken literally--I don't think anybody who's a real fan of Waits is under the delusion that he's a bum, street urchin, or has hung out with one-eyed dwarfs in singapore, but to me he's still able to create hauting, moving, and humorous stories out this material and that's the important thing. But, yeah, I guess if your philosophy of art demands 'realness' I would stay away from Waits.
As to the authenticity debate, I'm pretty much in agreement with deej, that his whole musical attitude is that of theatre, putting on a show, creating characters and acting out their stories via song. It's not meant to be taken literally--I don't think anybody who's a real fan of Waits is under the delusion that he's a bum, street urchin, or has hung out with one-eyed dwarfs in singapore, but to me he's still able to create hauting, moving, and humorous stories out this material and that's the important thing. But, yeah, I guess if your philosophy of art demands 'realness' I would stay away from Waits.
This is what I was after. Thank you, even though your previous comments were still sideways for little reason.
'bad' singing are not valid criticisms of Tom Waits PERIOD
I will still ride or die on this comment. He is a fucking god awful singer. Perhaps he means to do it, I don't know.
Tom Waits is like the musical version of Charles Bukowski. People get into it and become very sensitive to any attempts by non-believers to point out its relative shortcomings. I've tried both and have to confess a complete lack of comprehension as to why either is lauded.
Well, if that version of "Summertime" that was on Stereogum a while back is any reasonable measure, it'll at least be tuneful. The girl can sing, which puts her even further ahead of the Paris Hiltons of this world. I have to admit I could probably live with hearing her sing "Innocent When You Dream". Preferably in person.
Anyway, it's all about "Kentucky Avenue" for me. That, and the best version of West Side Story's "Somewhere" ever. I saw him on TV when I was a 14-y-o Bad Company fan, and I was instantly hooked. Been a fan ever since.
I don't know much about Tom Waits, but I saw a documentary about dude on TV a while back...looked like it was made in the late 70s, early 80s...two fat british dudes were interviewing him and then he played this song on the piano. I swear it was one of the most amazing songs I've ever heard.
If anyone knows which show I am talking abour, or better, what song he sang at the end I would be very appreciative!
Funny you should bring this song up. Its actually the title of a John LeCarre novel (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy). Now, having this bit of info, does it change your opinion of this song? If so, why/why not?
I know this is 9 years old, but as nobody pointed out at the time, the title is a nursery rhyme. Thats where LeCarre got it as well. Yeah, I know it's 9 years old.
Funny you should bring this song up. Its actually the title of a John LeCarre novel (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy). Now, having this bit of info, does it change your opinion of this song? If so, why/why not?
I know this is 9 years old, but as nobody pointed out at the time, the title is a nursery rhyme. Thats where LeCarre got it as well. Yeah, I know it's 9 years old.
Shhhhh - now Waits doesn't seem so well read.
I have never (knowingly) listened to this guy, but have one question - has he ever done an album called For No Man?
Funny you should bring this song up. Its actually the title of a John LeCarre novel (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy). Now, having this bit of info, does it change your opinion of this song? If so, why/why not?
I know this is 9 years old, but as nobody pointed out at the time, the title is a nursery rhyme. Thats where LeCarre got it as well. Yeah, I know it's 9 years old.
Question: @Bennyboy, Where the f*ck have you been? Burying DuttyBab?
Funny you should bring this song up. Its actually the title of a John LeCarre novel (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy). Now, having this bit of info, does it change your opinion of this song? If so, why/why not?
I know this is 9 years old, but as nobody pointed out at the time, the title is a nursery rhyme. Thats where LeCarre got it as well. Yeah, I know it's 9 years old.
Question: @Bennyboy, Where the f*ck have you been? Burying DuttyBab?
I don't know nuttin' 'bout no Dutty. I'm always here, lurking.
Comments
No, it doesn't change my opinion of the song in the least. It just makes me think that perhaps he's a bit better read than me.
I actually like that he's making a literary reference in the title. Thanks for that tidbit.
Ultimately, that song, to me, is about how one's life can be reduced to "a box of things," including, but not limited to, a rusted jackknife and a fuseless radio. And therein lies the heartbreak.
And for sale, no less.
This thread is such a
I'm talking Cole Porter, Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams, Dylan, Springsteen...uh James Brown. He is that good. I can see being turned off by the delivery or even some of the more "theatrical" stuff - but please he's got songs that make men cry. Not to mention an uncompromising artist- which is such a rarity these days that I can't believe that the people on this board wouldn't at least support that?
All hail Tom Waits!
American Genius!
his story songs are great..."Martha," is the saddest tune EVAR...Hell, even though Blue Valentines kind of blows, "Christmas Card from a Hooker in Minneapolis," is a bonafide classic.
I'm really dissapointed/surprised in the hate towards Waits. I just assumed everyone knew; Tom Waits: GOOD - Almost everyone else:BAD. Guess not?
He does equate to Porter/Guthrie/Williams in my opinion - but then again, it's my opinion.
AND MY OPINION IS RIGHT!
http://www.stereogum.com/archives/003694.html
i bet it's going to be terrible
Jesus, read the comments on that blogpost...and people though the discourse here was shallow.
I'm not sure what your point is, here.
For the record, I like Waits's lyrics a lot--what I've read--but I can't really stand his voice or sloppy musicianship.
I wasn't trying to snow under Tom Waits, instead, to put him in a proper context of what I think are the real giants of the swivel stool bar. Feel free to disagree.
Well, you said that you agreed with AP; and he said he couldn't listen to Waits because he is just the sum of his influences.
Then, you brought up Dylan.
So I took what you said, and combined it with AP's point which you say was echoing your thoughts, (which I disagreed with); i then added a little smartass for acidity and Soulstrut pallatability, and *zing*
5 minutes later, out popped a witty rejoinder!
How many message boards do you clog up?
I mean I hate to interrupt the heady discourse underweigh in this thread but srsly
Hey guy, you should write for a living, very eloquent and highbrow. Really gets to the heart of the matter of why Tom Waits fans like Tom Waits.
Meanwhile, I dunno why people who live in the real world could get so (seemingly) angry about a topic like this. I find it just as puzzling as the fandom for Tom Waits. I was curious and have gotten some answers, but the majority of posts have stated such things as "he rules" and "you are an asshole for not liking him."
I think my comments reflected, pretty accurately, the level at which you approached the topic.
at least AP is coming from informed perspective--whereas, almost everyone 'agreeing' with him are completely clueless.
Sloppy musicianship, untalented songwriting, and 'bad' singing are not valid criticisms of Tom Waits PERIOD
As to the authenticity debate, I'm pretty much in agreement with deej, that his whole musical attitude is that of theatre, putting on a show, creating characters and acting out their stories via song. It's not meant to be taken literally--I don't think anybody who's a real fan of Waits is under the delusion that he's a bum, street urchin, or has hung out with one-eyed dwarfs in singapore, but to me he's still able to create hauting, moving, and humorous stories out this material and that's the important thing. But, yeah, I guess if your philosophy of art demands 'realness' I would stay away from Waits.
This is what I was after. Thank you, even though your previous comments were still sideways for little reason.
I will still ride or die on this comment. He is a fucking god awful singer. Perhaps he means to do it, I don't know.
Oh my god you must be kidding me.
I STAND BY THIS. AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU SUCK. (kidding- but i do think he's that good)
Well, if that version of "Summertime" that was on Stereogum a while back is any reasonable measure, it'll at least be tuneful. The girl can sing, which puts her even further ahead of the Paris Hiltons of this world. I have to admit I could probably live with hearing her sing "Innocent When You Dream". Preferably in person.
Anyway, it's all about "Kentucky Avenue" for me. That, and the best version of West Side Story's "Somewhere" ever. I saw him on TV when I was a 14-y-o Bad Company fan, and I was instantly hooked. Been a fan ever since.
If anyone knows which show I am talking abour, or better, what song he sang at the end I would be very appreciative!
I know this is 9 years old, but as nobody pointed out at the time, the title is a nursery rhyme. Thats where LeCarre got it as well. Yeah, I know it's 9 years old.
I have never (knowingly) listened to this guy, but have one question - has he ever done an album called For No Man?
Question: @Bennyboy, Where the f*ck have you been? Burying DuttyBab?