Kwame Dilla MC Paul Bartman Nas Ced Gee The Great Peso DMC Rick Rubin Method Man Redman Method Man Redman ("Month Of The Man" = genius marketing plan) Ghostface Killah MC Lyte Genius (but not GZA) Tim Dog MC Breed Bizarre The Game Malachi The Nutcracker most white rappers and producers Prince Po Large Professor Jay-Z Jaz-O Jazzy Jay Jazzy Jeff Lord Jazz Casual Chad Hugo (possibly Pharrell) Omar Epps Spoonie Gee Jin Slim Thug MC Hammer (you damn skippy) MC Ren E Money Bags David Banner (if not genius then at least very smart for a southern rapper) Camp Lo Diddy (but not Puffy, Puff Daddy, P. Diddy and certainly not Sean Combs) Yung Dro Birdman
There are a lot of geniuses in Hip Hop.
I love the randomness of your list hommie! Damn near all the people on your list were part of something I liked at one time though.
Off the top, I would say there were 4, and this is open for debate.. Grandmaster Flash Marley Marl Rakim Phase 2
What they bought to the table is being dissected and studied to this day.
A lot of the people you call genius are innovators and some are just plain lucky. Not many are true geniuses.
I agree with this...
With all due respect, I don't know if I see Marley Marl or Rakim as genius... as great as they were (and trust me, they are two of the most important muthafuckas in REAL SCHITT history), neither of them really invented the wheel. What they did is take what the old school hip hop vets pioneered and did it BETTER, made it translate into dope records. What they did honestly wasn't all that revolutionary (although maybe you don't have to revolutionize anything to be genius, who knows... if making unbelievably good records is the criteria then yeah, call Ra and Marley geniuses). I don't even know how great Marley's beats would have been during the Cold Chillin' era if Biz and Kane and all the other rappers he worked with weren't giving him the records to sample (don't get me wrong, Marley was making RIDICULOUS schitt pre-The Bridge with merely drum machines and scratches.... i'm just sayin' tho).
Now, Grandmaster Flash... to totally invent the whole concept of rockin' breaks back and forth on two turntables, to me THAT'S the work of a genius. You gotta understand that back in 1977 or whenever it was he came up with this schitt, it was like aliens dropping out of the sky or something. You're talking about some totally unimaginable schitt! And people had no idea what to even make of that schitt at first. Nobody back then could've guessed how big this would get to be decades later.
BTW, add to my list of geniuses Educated Rapper from UTFO. Mensa material rap
Paul Barman is a sucka. If you're gonna go there you might as well go all the way and say Anticon instead of flirting with a half-way 'white dude' who tries to be a conceptual nerd instead of dropping hyper-intellectualism. Kool Keith was ahead of Barman on that.
Grand Buffet are genius without a doubt because they're on some shit that is simply not explored by anyone else, and they do it to the hilt. Not to mention that Jackson knows his shit backwards and forwards, and is quite possibly the most well-enunciated rapper ever.
I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned EL Producto. He's not my cup of tea, but you gotta give cred where it's due. He started a label and a sub-genre around his production style. He's definitely got it going on.
And Mike Ladd? I would like to think that it's an oversight that he hasn't been mentioned.
How bout Kid Koala? Have you ever seent his guy live? And Skratch Piklz?
Shadow, Kool Keith, Automator and RZA definitely need to be on there. I can't speak on much else since I wasn't into hip hop before the mid 90's. But I know enough to cite Afrika Bambaata.
Off the top, I would say there were 4, and this is open for debate.. Grandmaster Flash Marley Marl Rakim Phase 2
What they bought to the table is being dissected and studied to this day.
A lot of the people you call genius are innovators and some are just plain lucky. Not many are true geniuses.
I agree with this...
With all due respect, I don't know if I see Marley Marl or Rakim as genius... as great as they were (and trust me, they are two of the most important muthafuckas in REAL SCHITT history), neither of them really invented the wheel. What they did is take what the old school hip hop vets pioneered and did it BETTER, made it translate into dope records. What they did honestly wasn't all that revolutionary (although maybe you don't have to revolutionize anything to be genius, who knows... if making unbelievably good records is the criteria then yeah, call Ra and Marley geniuses). I don't even know how great Marley's beats would have been during the Cold Chillin' era if Biz and Kane and all the other rappers he worked with weren't giving him the records to sample (don't get me wrong, Marley was making RIDICULOUS schitt pre-The Bridge with merely drum machines and scratches.... i'm just sayin' tho).
Now, Grandmaster Flash... to totally invent the whole concept of rockin' breaks back and forth on two turntables, to me THAT'S the work of a genius. You gotta understand that back in 1977 or whenever it was he came up with this schitt, it was like aliens dropping out of the sky or something. You're talking about some totally unimaginable schitt! And people had no idea what to even make of that schitt at first. Nobody back then could've guessed how big this would get to be decades later.
BTW, add to my list of geniuses Educated Rapper from UTFO. Mensa material rap
Phill,
I see your point. But in defense of Marley, who was sampling drums before him? The first to totally take advantage of the studio and not use it as a place of holy reverence, letting an engineer tell you what can't be done? The first dude to actually do blends on air(which spawned the hip-hop/R&B remix)? So many of the subplots that people rely on started with this dude, and as an extension Rakim.
I see your point. But in defense of Marley, who was sampling drums before him? The first to totally take advantage of the studio and not use it as a place of holy reverence, letting an engineer tell you what can't be done? The first dude to actually do blends on air(which spawned the hip-hop/R&B remix)? So many of the subplots that people rely on started with this dude, and as an extension Rakim.
And good to see Quo on a post. REspect
Yeahhh... I hear you. "The Bridge" was definitely a turning point in hip hop production. Personally I just don't know if that was so much a genius move as it was a change in technology. A LOT of dudes wanted to make records like that back then (as in records that reflected that gritty "real schitt" breakbeat sound from the parks) but really didn't know how to do it or didn't think that it would be accepted. But still, I don't want it to look like I'm disrespecting what Marley did back then- he definitely spaked a lot of schitt. A lot of REAL schitt. So cool, I'll go along with Marley's genius status- no problem with that.
Did Marley actually invent the hip hop / r&b blend? I always hated those schitts, so i really don't even know the deal on that.
The first to totally take advantage of the studio and not use it as a place of holy reverence, letting an engineer tell you what can't be done?
That had most def been done before Marley. The Mike And Dave records, Run DMC "Sucker MCs" and Schooly with "PSK" are the main examples I can think of. I knew most of the engineers in Philly who worked with Schooly back then, and they all thought he was nuts when he'd tell them how he wanted his music to sound in the studio. They went ahead and recorded it like he wanted it anyway.
Really, most of Marley's stuff just had a raw demo sound, which wasn't uncommon except that these demos had some of the illest beats and best emcees in the world.
Comments
Prince Paul
Marley Marl
RZA
Pete Rock
Mantronix
Here are a couple to add to the list IMO:
sorry I just thought I'd remind people how ridiculous this thread became by posting this pic again. l'il wayne = genius. shit still has me laughing.
who is djing for cypress hill(muggs is on stage)... funkdoobiest's ralph da mexican? they should have used ralph wiggums.
I love the randomness of your list hommie! Damn near all the people on your list were part of something I liked at one time though.
NO.
My god is everybody a genius? Is Steve Kerr a Genius as well a Micheal Jordan.
Muthafuckas w/ a blip of a career are being called genius.
There are guys in the Hall of Fame who arent genius.
DR.J is way different than Clyde Drexler.
Fuck you. YES.
U dont know what Hip Hop Is.
I think he means Sam Sever.
You are in denial about what hip hop is. And what hip hop is, right now, in 2006, owes a whole lot to what Mantronix was ~20 years ago.
Just out of curiosity, how old were you 10 years ago? I was 10.
I agree with this...
With all due respect, I don't know if I see Marley Marl or Rakim as genius... as great as they were (and trust me, they are two of the most important muthafuckas in REAL SCHITT history), neither of them really invented the wheel. What they did is take what the old school hip hop vets pioneered and did it BETTER, made it translate into dope records. What they did honestly wasn't all that revolutionary (although maybe you don't have to revolutionize anything to be genius, who knows... if making unbelievably good records is the criteria then yeah, call Ra and Marley geniuses).
I don't even know how great Marley's beats would have been during the Cold Chillin' era if Biz and Kane and all the other rappers he worked with weren't giving him the records to sample (don't get me wrong, Marley was making RIDICULOUS schitt pre-The Bridge with merely drum machines and scratches.... i'm just sayin' tho).
Now, Grandmaster Flash... to totally invent the whole concept of rockin' breaks back and forth on two turntables, to me THAT'S the work of a genius. You gotta understand that back in 1977 or whenever it was he came up with this schitt, it was like aliens dropping out of the sky or something. You're talking about some totally unimaginable schitt! And people had no idea what to even make of that schitt at first. Nobody back then could've guessed how big this would get to be decades later.
BTW, add to my list of geniuses Educated Rapper from UTFO. Mensa material rap
Grand Buffet are genius without a doubt because they're on some shit that is simply not explored by anyone else, and they do it to the hilt. Not to mention that Jackson knows his shit backwards and forwards, and is quite possibly the most well-enunciated rapper ever.
I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned EL Producto. He's not my cup of tea, but you gotta give cred where it's due. He started a label and a sub-genre around his production style. He's definitely got it going on.
And Mike Ladd? I would like to think that it's an oversight that he hasn't been mentioned.
How bout Kid Koala? Have you ever seent his guy live? And Skratch Piklz?
Shadow, Kool Keith, Automator and RZA definitely need to be on there. I can't speak on much else since I wasn't into hip hop before the mid 90's. But I know enough to cite Afrika Bambaata.
you are in good company in here.
actually this pretty much makes you an OG on soulstrut.
Maybe? Just For "The Message"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=garm5BpOCSM
a genius on a whole nother level. the man never wrote a word down.
Dude basically INVENTED rap as we now know it. If he ain't a hip hop genius ain't nobody a hip hop genius
Phill,
I see your point. But in defense of Marley, who was sampling drums
And good to see Quo on a post. REspect
Yeahhh... I hear you. "The Bridge" was definitely a turning point in hip hop production. Personally I just don't know if that was so much a genius move as it was a change in technology. A LOT of dudes wanted to make records like that back then (as in records that reflected that gritty "real schitt" breakbeat sound from the parks) but really didn't know how to do it or didn't think that it would be accepted. But still, I don't want it to look like I'm disrespecting what Marley did back then- he definitely spaked a lot of schitt. A lot of REAL schitt.
Did Marley actually invent the hip hop / r&b blend? I always hated those schitts, so i really don't even know the deal on that.
That had most def been done before Marley. The Mike And Dave records, Run DMC "Sucker MCs" and Schooly with "PSK" are the main examples I can think of. I knew most of the engineers in Philly who worked with Schooly back then, and they all thought he was nuts when he'd tell them how he wanted his music to sound in the studio. They went ahead and recorded it like he wanted it anyway.
Really, most of Marley's stuff just had a raw demo sound, which wasn't uncommon except that these demos had some of the illest beats and best emcees in the world.
Dr.Dre
The Bomb Squad
BoSS - electronic production/engineering staff
RZA
Grandmaster Wizard Theodore