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Marco, what is your beef with Prog Rock?

RAJRAJ tenacious local 7,779 Posts
edited May 2005 in Strut Central
Saying.
«1

  Comments

  • dCastillodCastillo 1,963 Posts
    Saying.

    DITTO.
    What's so wrong about having a little Gentle Giant in your diet?
  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    Saying.



    DITTO.

    What's so wrong about having a little Gentle Giant in your diet?



    Gentle Giant, Yes, Jethro Tull and King Crimson obviously bit so much of their phrasing from Dust, Moving Sidewalks and The Move that it's inexcusable. That should be enough for anybody to at least question where they got their "ideas."



    According to many on here, no one has ever disliked Prog because no one has ever heard it. That's about as true as when y'all portray me as saying that everyone and their grandmother hates Prog. Somewhere in between those 2 extremes...there is definitely some hating that has occurred.



    So if someone besides me would come up with a definitive list of genuinely original prog, I'd love to see it.



    And yes, there's a certain chip on the shoulder that naturally comes with underdog status. On the flipside of that, the chip on Dcastillo's shoulder is nothing but evil.



    I feel sorry for anybody that's waiting for the next Asia album.



    Check ya'll sacless batches later. I'm grabbing my gat and getting back to the lab*.



    *my older brother's lab.



  • Dj_Coma_ToastDj_Coma_Toast 874 Posts
    Is Can considered Prog Rock? Ive heard alot of people use Can as a prime example, except i cant think of too many bands that are like them. The term Prog Rocks sounds pretty strange though, It always makes me think of german nihilist beatniks with mullets or something.
  • asprinasprin 1,765 Posts
    I think a lot of prog lps are too formulaic (sp)

    hard drums :check
    funky bass :check
    arp freakout :check
    soul :ehh

  • mylatencymylatency 10,475 Posts
    Is Can considered Prog Rock?

    Can = Krautrock

    From wikipedia.org:

    "Progressive rock (shortened to prog, or prog rock when differentiating from other "progressive..." genres) is an ambitious, eclectic, and often grandiose style of rock music which arose in the late 1960s, reached the peak of its popularity in the early 1970s, and continues as a musical form to this day. Progressive rock began in England and remained largely a European movement, although there are a few notable American and Canadian progressive rock bands. This music style draws many influences from classical music and jazz fusion, in contrast to American rock, which was more influenced by rhythm & blues and country. Over the years various sub-genres of progressive rock have emerged, such as symphonic rock, art rock, math rock and progressive metal.

    Progressive rock artists sought to move away from the limitations of popular rock and pop music formats, and "progress" rock to the point that it could achieve new forms, often but not always alluding to the sophistication of jazz or classical music. It is complexity, not the virtuosity of the musicians, which most distinguishes progressive rock: mainstream rock has some extremely talented musicians who work solely in simple meters and harmonies.

    Progressive rock is difficult to define in a single conclusive way, and outspoken King Crimson leader Robert Fripp has voiced his disdain for the term. The major acts that defined the genre in the 1970s (Jethro Tull, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Rush and King Crimson) do not sound especially alike. There is also debate on whether the musical output of artists and bands as varied as Frank Zappa, Phish, and Radiohead belongs to the genre."
  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    Is Can considered Prog Rock? Ive heard alot of people use Can as a prime example, except i cant think of too many bands that are like them. The term Prog Rocks sounds pretty strange though, It always makes me think of german nihilist beatniks with mullets or something.



    Can and Neu! are more commonly referred to as Kraut Rock (or Space Rock), which is an appropriate enough tag, if not a culturally sensitive one.



    Bands like Can, Neu!, Hawkwind, and even early Amon Duul have a significant difference in opposition to bands like Crimson, Gentle Giant, etc. The former's approach (Krautrock, Spacerock) is more based on repetition and minimalism with bursts of noise or improvisation, while the latter's approach (Prog) is more concerned with musical virtuosity and compositional complexity. It's those latter qualities that I generally can't stand.



    In other words, what Ts*ga said.



    And what MyLatency said.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    Krautrock for the most part is considered to be a subset of prog (and although that article names only the US, UK and Canada there were PLENTY of Euro prog groups... Italy was BIG on it for some reason...)

    Fortunately the Germans had a different take on it, Can Faust Amon Duul and Kraftwerk certainly beat the pants off and US/UK prog act I can think of...

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    I think a lot of prog lps are too formulaic (sp)

    hard drums :check
    funky bass :check
    arp freakout :check
    soul :ehh


    I understand why producers buy prog records, lots of open drums, bass, keys, guitar.

    Here are a few reasons why I never cared to listen to prog bands.

    1) Most prog does not have a beat, you can't dance to it. One feature of prog is shifting time signitures and tempos.
    2) Most prog lacks emotion.
    3) Most prog groups have weak vocals.
    4) Most prog groups have weak lyrics.
    5) Most prog is pretensous. Prog started as a rejection of 3 chord rock with a back beat. Prog musicians claimed to be making better rock music. I'll take Chuck Berry any day.
    6) Back in the day I saw Pink Floyd and some other prog groups. They were incredible boring live.

    My favorite prog song is Lucky Man by EL&P. Now you can hate on me for that.

    Dan
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    Not surprised that Marco is unwilling to accept how large the umbrella known as 'prog' is and is quick to distance bands he likes from the term
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    Kraut Rock (or Space Rock), which is an appropriate enough tag, if not a culturally sensitive one.

    The term was actually coined by the Germans though... Faust I believe? Tongue-in-cheek

    Though my brother informed me that in present-day German record stores the section is called 'komische musik'
  • TheeeCasualMaleTheeeCasualMale 2,564 Posts
    Over the years various sub-genres of progressive rock have emerged, such as symphonic rock, art rock, math rock and progressive metal.



    ahem...



  • dCastillodCastillo 1,963 Posts
    Saying.

    DITTO.
    What's so wrong about having a little Gentle Giant in your diet?
    And yes, there's a certain chip on the shoulder that naturally comes with underdog status. On the flipside of that, the chip on Dcastillo's shoulder is nothing but evil.


    This is just beautiful.
    The briefcase stays handcuffed to the wrist in the '05.
    PROCLAMATION!
  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    Not surprised that Marco is unwilling to accept how large the umbrella known as 'prog' is and is quick to distance bands he likes from the term

    It's a big enough umbrella
    But it's always krautrock that gets left in the rain
    Every little thing Can does is magic
    Every 70s song by Hawkwind turns me on
    I think calling those bands prog is tragic
    But go ahead and listen to King Crimson




  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts
    I used think this was the gayest record I owned:



    until I found this...



    Foucault would be proud.
  • DenmarkVZDenmarkVZ 397 Posts




    Daniel "Jelle" De Brier



    Geboortedatum: ?? 31 january 1961



    Woonplaats: Tielt-Winge



    Beroep: Audio/Video Systems Technician



    Hobbies: Muziek, Audio, Video & Light Systems



    Favoriete Muziekgenre: Symfonische Jazz Rock



    Favoriete Groep: Genesis



    Favoriete Lp/Cd: Songs From The Wood (Jethro Tull)



    Andere Progbands: Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Van Der Graaf Generator, Kansas, Porcupine Tree, Spock's Beard, Flower Kings, Transatlantic, Saga, Arena, Focus, Camel, Marillion, Jadis, Pallas, The Watch, Xang



    Andere Genres / Namen: Frank Zappa, Rush, Styx, Bad Company, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Led Zepplin, Manfred Mann's Earth Band, Dream Theater, Wishbone Ash, Toto, Jeff Beck, Colosseum II, Al Di Meola, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Simon Phillips, Gentle Giant, Passport, Return to Forever, Jean-Luc Ponty, Pat Metheny, Santana, Spyro Gyra, Weather Report



    Progliefhebber sinds: 1976



    5 cd's die ik meeneem naar een verlaten eiland:

    1. Frank Zappa: Zappa in New York

    2. Jethro Tull: Songs From The Wood

    3. Genesis: A Trick Of The Tail

    4. Rush: Moving Pictures

    5. Yes: Going for the one

  • soulmarcosasoulmarcosa 4,296 Posts
    Late nights of my adolescent years were often filled with the exultant expectation of seeing underground punk and new wave videos on USA's NIGHT FLIGHT, only to be met with the dull slap of reality that they were rerunning lumberingly dinosaurtastic live Yes footage YET AGAIN.



    As if we didn't get the message that Rick Wakeman was literally a "keyboard wizard" the first ten times they showed it.







    "Avast! Do mine eyes behold Gandalf on yon ARP Odyssey?"

  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,331 Posts
    1) Most prog does not have a beat, you can't dance to it. One feature of prog is shifting time signitures and tempos.
    2) Most prog lacks emotion.
    3) Most prog groups have weak vocals.
    4) Most prog groups have weak lyrics.
    5) Most prog is pretensous. Prog started as a rejection of 3 chord rock with a back beat. Prog musicians claimed to be making better rock music. I'll take Chuck Berry any day.

    that's perfect. so damn true. prog rock is cool sometimes though.

    6) Back in the day I saw Pink Floyd and some other prog groups. They were incredible boring live.

    i can imagine.
  • False_EuphoriaFalse_Euphoria 17 Posts
    nobody here goes very deep with prog huh? everybody keeps going back to yes, wakeman, genesis, etc. to me, that stuff is fairly weak. granted those are the names that show up in dollar bins stateside but there are some amazing prog re-issues out there right now. most of these are german groups but not krautrock at all...rougher than your average english prog, less informed by classical music and more so by hard rock and psych:










    this one is english, very subdued despite having a three mellotron line-up:



    and this one is usually tagged psych but the smoking 11 minute jam on the a side says prog to me:

  • ovulationistovulationist 290 Posts
    nobody here goes very deep with prog huh? everybody keeps going back to yes, wakeman, genesis, etc. to me, that stuff is fairly weak. granted those are the names that show up in dollar bins stateside but there are some amazing prog re-issues out there right now. most of these are german groups but not krautrock at all...rougher than your average english prog, less informed by classical music and more so by hard rock and psych:










    this one is english, very subdued despite having a three mellotron line-up:



    and this one is usually tagged psych but the smoking 11 minute jam on the a side says prog to me:


    HELL YES!!!!!

    (btw. whats the $44 price sticker on the bottom of that Smog?)
  • awallawall 673 Posts
    Kraut Rock (or Space Rock), which is an appropriate enough tag, if not a culturally sensitive one.

    The term was actually coined by the Germans though... Faust I believe? Tongue-in-cheek

    I read (in the liner notes to the re-issue of the 1st faust album) that the UK press invented the term "Kraut-rock."
  • awallawall 673 Posts

    and this one is usually tagged psych but the smoking 11 minute jam on the a side says prog to me:


    flute rock perfection. these dudes blow jethro tull out of the fucking water.

    I always thought the dude in the middle looked like shuggie otis.
  • residentgiantresidentgiant 619 Posts


    SO what are people's thoughts on these guys?

    (I like)
  • False_EuphoriaFalse_Euphoria 17 Posts

    and this one is usually tagged psych but the smoking 11 minute jam on the a side says prog to me:


    HELL YES!!!!!

    (btw. whats the $44 price sticker on the bottom of that Smog?)


    don't know...popped the image from popsike, i have the re-issue with no sticker.
  • False_EuphoriaFalse_Euphoria 17 Posts


    SO what are people's thoughts on these guys?

    (I like)


    kinda like jeff buckley singing with le orme/pfm (overwrought but effective vocals meet overwrought but italian prog)...not really my thing.

    speaking of italian prog...




  • high_chigh_c 1,384 Posts

    and this one is usually tagged psych but the smoking 11 minute jam on the a side says prog to me:


    HELL YES!!!!!

    (btw. whats the $44 price sticker on the bottom of that Smog?)


    don't know...popped the image from popsike, i have the re-issue with no sticker.


    the band is Los Dug Dugs and they's Mexicans so that's probably 44 pesos
  • volumenvolumen 2,532 Posts
    I think a lot of prog lps are too formulaic (sp)

    hard drums :check
    funky bass :check
    arp freakout :check
    soul :ehh


    I understand why producers buy prog records, lots of open drums, bass, keys, guitar.

    Here are a few reasons why I never cared to listen to prog bands.

    1) Most prog does not have a beat, you can't dance to it. One feature of prog is shifting time signitures and tempos.
    2) Most prog lacks emotion.
    3) Most prog groups have weak vocals.
    4) Most prog groups have weak lyrics.
    5) Most prog is pretensous. Prog started as a rejection of 3 chord rock with a back beat. Prog musicians claimed to be making better rock music. I'll take Chuck Berry any day.
    6) Back in the day I saw Pink Floyd and some other prog groups. They were incredible boring live.

    My favorite prog song is Lucky Man by EL&P. Now you can hate on me for that.

    Dan

    7) Most prog song are just one big endless annoying solo.

    Haveing said that I love prog even if it gets on my nerves a lot. It's similar to easy listening....if you give it a chance there is some cool stuff but listening to too much gets ruff. Case in point I pulled out my Todd Rundgren (SP) the other day and it was annoying the fuck out of me, I couldn't even listen to one whole song and I tossed it in the sale bin.
  • BigNachoBigNacho 47 Posts
    Late nights of my adolescent years were often filled with the exultant expectation of seeing underground punk and new wave videos on USA's NIGHT FLIGHT



    best freeform programming EVER. can we have a moment of silence for peter ivers and his new wave theater? my adolescent window on the world.
  • LewisLewis Connecticut 101 Posts
    what are peoples thoughts on the neo-prog of Mars Volta? PoMo bombastic maximalism anyone?
    an aesthetic i was pondering after reading the Arthur article featuring Magma and MV is can you be intensionally pretensious and genuine at the same time? Like being authentic in your air of pretensiousness then validates the pretension. sorry to get all Wire chin-stroking but thought it fitting for the prog thread.
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    an aesthetic i was pondering after reading the Arthur article featuring Magma and MV is can you be intensionally pretensious and genuine at the same time?

    The manner in which this question answers itself is truly unsettling.

    And the answer is no.
  • aimhighshootlowaimhighshootlow 146 Posts
    haha! daaag
    usa night flight.brunk back memories
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