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Does this sound VG+ to you?

mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
edited April 2006 in Strut Central
So I got this Darondo 45 off eBay and it was listed as "VG+" and the only mention of any real problems with "light marks on the LABEL" but not the record itself. I get it in the mail and while most of it plays surprisingly clean, this is the first 30 seconds: http://o-dub.com/sounds/soulsides/sample.mp3Suffice to say, I'm a little annoyed but was this my bad? To me - VG+ means "some surface noise" but definitely not such an obvious audio mar. Try to send it back (I actually have dealt with this dude in the past...he seems cool but I've never tried returning something)? Or eat it?By the way, if I did return it, I'd offer to pay listing and closing costs, just to be cool about it.
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  Comments

  • dayday 9,611 Posts
    Ouch.

    At first I was like "this isn't too bad"...then the snap, crackle and pops started. All in all, I'd say if you got a deal keep it and try to mint up one day. While that small section definitley takes away from the song, you can always convince yourself it adds character.



    I need that song in my life, btw. I am still sleeping on Darondo (for shame, I know.).
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Disclosure: I paid about $120. So definitely not "a deal" though the current market probably could have pushed this higher.

    Oliver


    Ouch.

    At first I was like "this isn't too bad"...then the snap, crackle and pops started. All in all, I'd say if you got a deal keep it and try to mint up one day. While that small section definitley takes away from the song, you can always convince yourself it adds character.



    I need that song in my life, btw. I am still sleeping on Darondo (for shame, I know.).
  • dayday 9,611 Posts
    Then in that case, I'd ask for my money back unless you can live with what sounds like tiny paws swiping the record for 10 seconds.

    If it's any consolation, I've had a similar situation with a Brasillian record I paid $75 for. Surface noise across the whole thing.
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    Yeah dude, that's weak. I mean, maybe the seller didn't listen to it before he sold it although with a record that cool that would be somewhat surprising. But yeah, the description definitely should have mentioned the pops. By the way, if they do agree to a return then you shouldn't have to refund the listing and closing fees because the seller can get a credit through ebay due to the return.
  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Yeah dude, that's weak. I mean, maybe the seller didn't listen to it before he sold it although with a record that cool that would be somewhat surprising. But yeah, the description definitely should have mentioned the pops. By the way, if they do agree to a return then you shouldn't have to refund the listing and closing fees because the seller can get a credit through ebay due to the return.

    Ah!
  • DomDom 2 Posts
    damn, with bullish like this, the click/pop eliminator on cool edit pro/audition can be your best friend.

    it does a great does not destroying necessary frequencies if used correctly.
  • yuichiyuichi Urban sprawl 11,331 Posts
    mmmhfff. if you paid $120 for it, i'd say get a refund.

    although on a much smaller scale, i recently passed on an otherwise NM copy of Donny Hathaway Live for $5, for this very same reason. The first 30 seconds of a side going "scratch, scratch...".
  • lambertlambert 1,166 Posts
    This is why I think more dealers need to aurally grade records. I know for larger volume sellers it would a herculean task and unfeasable, but most sellers put 20-30 up at a time, and that would take you about an hour or two to avoid all the headache of returns later on.

    I dont' know how all of you feel about the appearance of a record, but I couldn't give a shit as long as it plays well.

    And if you bought a 45? It would take all of half a minute to grade it.
    What the hell? Oh yeah, I guess some people don't actually have record players.
  • HAZBEENHAZBEEN 564 Posts
    I paid as much for a 12" once & it looked mint, but played awful. The seller was cool & gave me a refund. I wouldn't have returned in if it was 10 bucks, but you should get something decent for a c-note, especially if it advertised as in good shape except for the label.
  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    To play devil's advocate here, is it visually VG+? If so, then my opinion could go either way. Dude might not have played it and done his best to grade correcty visually. If not visually VG+ either, then away it should go back to sender. I got a VG+ copy of Coffy in the recent past that played like trash AND looked like trash. I wasn't having it. Was dude making an honest effort to grade accurately? That's the key ingredient here.
    My 2c
    Peace
    T.N.
  • djrdjr 511 Posts
    This is why I think more dealers need to aurally grade records. I know for larger volume sellers it would a herculean task and unfeasable, but most sellers put 20-30 up at a time, and that would take you about an hour or two to avoid all the headache of returns later on.

    I totally agree that sellers need to aurally grade records. Especially if they are dealing with a record that has a value over $50. I just don't believe visually grading a record cuts it anymore, and it's pretty much pushing me away from e-bay and mail-order in general. I'd rather visually grade it myself in a shop or a store.
  • crazypoprockcrazypoprock 1,037 Posts
    did you try cleaning it well and massaging out some of the more offending pops? some of the pops are bad but it really doesn't sound too bad...especially since it's a pretty mellow tune with lots of quiet acoustic parts.
  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    I feel like "VG+" is this huge gray area, where something
    can be either totally clean or fairly beat, and the seller
    can claim "I said VG+" if you complain ... honestly,
    that soundfile was not as a bad as I was expecting it to
    be, but I didn't drop over $100 on it ... I'm just not
    so sure it's absolutely a bad grade - if it only has that
    noise for a few rotations, I might grade it VG+ myself ...
    and I know a few guys on here who might have graded it
    even higher! I'm curious if you would have bought it/what
    you would have paid if it had been graded "VG"
  • _JULIUS__JULIUS_ 76 Posts
    honestly, that soundfile was not as a bad as I was expecting it to
    be, but I didn't drop over $100 on it ... I'm just not
    so sure it's absolutely a bad grade - if it only has that
    noise for a few rotations, I might grade it VG+ myself ...
    and I know a few guys on here who might have graded it
    even higher!

    Cosign

    But for a record of that price, and considering it's a 45, i think the seller would have to mention the noise during the intro.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    I feel like "VG+" is this huge gray area

    This is one of my major pet peeves that I've brought up here time and time again: for the longest, VG+ was the grade beneath NM and looked and sounded as such... in my book VG+ is still a record that looks and sounds near-perfect, which is one reason why you don't see me buying and selling on eBay. Now that its an international market, international grading standards apply that I'm STILL unfamiliar with. I've seen everything from VG to NM described as 'EX' by sellers.
  • akoako https://soundcloud.com/a-ko 3,413 Posts
    Dude might not have played it and done his best to grade correcty visually.

    my copy of hell's belles looks...VG-/G and plays absolutely VG+

    visual grading is bullshit, ESPECIALLY with styrene pressings
  • TheMackTheMack 3,414 Posts
    that soundclip sounds VG+ to me man.
  • LamontLamont 1,089 Posts
    eight rotations of "chk", the rest plays fine, I'm with the seller on this one.


    indeed another reason not to drop big cheese on a single 45
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    It's definitely not horrendous but I think Oliver is well within his rights to request a refund. It can't hurt anything. I'm not particularly anal about condition but I know many collectors that would laugh you out of the room for calling that VG+. For any expensive records I always try to be as accurate as possible in describing any defects.
  • troublemantroubleman 1,928 Posts
    vinyl clicks used to bother the hell out of me, but i've since learned it's the nature of messing with used records. Altough I do love it when the click is perfectly in time with the record....anyone else have one that does this?
  • Skip DrinkwaterSkip Drinkwater 1,694 Posts
    vg+ has become such a subjective grade that i try and stay away from it altogether
  • SoulhawkSoulhawk 3,197 Posts
    vg+ has become such a subjective grade that i try and stay away from it altogether

    yeah, it's pretty much meaningless, esp when people push the envelope with vg++++ & shit.

    the other day a guy described a record to me as 'mint plus', that's a new one.

    in European grading with 'EX' & so forth, VG+ would definitely be looking worse than in typical US grading.

    on a related note: what do y'all think about this 1-10 grading system that's spreading through the ebay selling world?

    yeh? nay?

  • JLRJLR 3,835 Posts
    Gentlemen, let's take a look at the Goldmine Grading Guide:

    Very Good Plus (VG+)[/b]: Shows some signs that it was played and otherwise handled by a previous owner who took good care of it. Record surfaces may show some slight signs of wear and may have slight scuffs or very light scratches that don't affect one's listening experience. Slight warps that do not affect the sign are OK.
    The label may have some ring wear or discoloration, but is should be barely noticeable. The center hole is not misshapen by repeated play. In general, if not for a couple of minor things wrong with it, this would be Near Mint.


    Very Good (VG)[/b]: Many of the defects found in a VG+ record are more pronounced in a VG disc. Surface noise is evident upon playing, especially in soft passages and during the song's intro and fade, but will not overpower the music otherwise. Groove wear will start to be noticeable, as will light scratches (deep enough to feel with a fingernail) that will affect the sound.
    Labels may be marred by writing, or have tape or stickers (or their residue) attached. The same will be true of picture sleeves or LP covers. However, it will not have all of these problems at the same time, only two or three of them.

    I would say that particular specimen is a VG, but it won't mean a thing if the seller claims to use another standard for grading.
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I find "EX" to be useful because I hate calling things "NM" unless they are truly spotless, without a single scuff, mark, clouding, etc. EX to me is good for records that are for all intents and purposes NM but because someone has taken it out of the sleeve a few times there are some signs of use.

    VG+ to me is still a great record. I do not buy or trade for VG+ records from folks I don't know, I am constantly burned and I think a lot of people look at records under low wattage lighting so it looks clean to them.

    VG++(+++) is a grade for fools and should never be used. Same with "EX-". Which in most cases = VG+.
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    I find "EX" to be useful because I hate calling things "NM" unless they are truly spotless, without a single scuff, mark, clouding, etc. EX to me is good for records that are for all intents and purposes NM but because someone has taken it out of the sleeve a few times there are some signs of use.

    VG+ to me is still a great record. I do not buy or trade for VG+ records from folks I don't know, I am constantly burned and I think a lot of people look at records under low wattage lighting so it looks clean to them.

    VG++(+++) is a grade for fools and should never be used. Same with "EX-". Which in most cases = VG+.

    Well, I think your approach to grading totally makes sense, but I also think it makes total sense to use VG++ as an equivelant grading for Ex. This is more or less the norm in the U.S. and is used by pretty much every major dealer on ebay that I can think of.
  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    I'll put myself on blast, here is my grading scale:

    SEALED, M-, NM, NM-, EX+, EX, EX-, VG+, VG, VG-, G+. I consider my VG+ to have no surface noise, and my EX gradings are equivalent to Goldmine's VG++ grading, just more descriptive with specific gradations within the VG++ aegis. My M- is open unplayed. My NM and NM- gradings are reserved for items opened once and played.

    The question I wanted to add about Dorando was, is it styrene? If so, uber fragile, shipping could've fucked it over. I played an EX+ styrene 45 ONCE to tape it and basically made it VG by doing so.
  • bull_oxbull_ox 5,056 Posts
    The question I wanted to add about Dorando was, is it styrene? If so, uber fragile, shipping could've fucked it over. I played an EX+ styrene 45 ONCE to tape it and basically made it VG by doing so.

    I'm sure I've read on here that that record does have a styrene pressing
  • kidinquisitivekidinquisitive 1,627 Posts
    I'm operating from memory here, but I think it's a styrene record. I found my copy unsleeved at the flea market and it plays quite nicely, so I don't think it's all that fragile of a record.
  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    I found my copy unsleeved at the flea market and it plays quite nicely, so I don't think it's all that fragile of a record.

    Yeah, not being an apologist for dude or anything cuz I don't know the story. Other good examples besides styrene for record fragility include early 70s Polydor records (garbage vinyl quality) and Alshire record stock (also garbage).
  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I find "EX" to be useful because I hate calling things "NM" unless they are truly spotless, without a single scuff, mark, clouding, etc. EX to me is good for records that are for all intents and purposes NM but because someone has taken it out of the sleeve a few times there are some signs of use.

    VG+ to me is still a great record. I do not buy or trade for VG+ records from folks I don't know, I am constantly burned and I think a lot of people look at records under low wattage lighting so it looks clean to them.

    VG++(+++) is a grade for fools and should never be used. Same with "EX-". Which in most cases = VG+.

    Well, I think your approach to grading totally makes sense, but I also think it makes total sense to use VG++ as an equivelant grading for Ex. This is more or less the norm in the U.S. and is used by pretty much every major dealer on ebay that I can think of.

    Agreed, although I would prefer that these dealers use "Ex".
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