Smoking Gun On Bush & Iraq Invasion?
motown67
4,513 Posts
From the Sunday Times Of London 5/1/05:This is from a secret memo that went to the English Defense Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney General an dother high officials in the Blair government. It's the minutes of their meeting on Iraq with Blair. The memo was written by Matthew Rycroft, a Downing Street foreign policy aide. It's been confimed as legit and dated 7/23/02."C reported on his recent talks in Washingon. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justifed by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.[/b] The NSC (National Security Council) had no patience with the U.N. route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.""The foreign secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbors, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iraqn.[/b] We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the U.N. weapon inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force. The attorney general said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action.[/b] There were three possible legal bases: self-defense, humanitarian intervention or UNSC authorization. The first and second could not be the base in this case."
Comments
heard it on NPR and jeah, some conservative freakazoids are already discrediting it blah blah
The way they freaked over that plane was stupid. They couldn't wait for an explosion so they wouldn't have to talk about anything else for a month.
As the breaks said 'maybe if Bush gets a hummer from an intern someone will care'.
On a related note: anyone catch the Bush speech at one of the former Soviet republics? He said something to the effect that "we believe that Democracy will eventually come to each country in the world and it is our duty to further this cause." I mean, this is FUCKING OBVIOUS empire-building and manifest-destiny-speak. Why are there 62 million+ people in this country that don't see this as incredibly dangerous language?
No smoking gun necessary.
Anyone with a low to moderate intelligence level (which does seem to be lacking in America at the moment) knew it was all bullshit before it even started.
The perceptive could smell the shit blowing in the wind immediately following 9-11.
Peace...
Mimizu
Yea, 1st it was WMD then they acted like that was never mentioned and now it's always been about "Democracy".
The scarey thing is a lot of people in this country agree with the pres and think we should force our bullshit on everyone, just like people think the bible should be forced on everyone.
A lot of people also don't agree but are too scared to really speak up an do anything about it. Or most importanly go against the grain and vote for someone else. People that opposed the war voted for Bush so "those fags couldn't get married". It's not exactly rational thinking.
Finally people that do speak up and try to do something are maginalized and gassed by police for peacefully protesting. Further if your really stirring up trouble you find yourself facing some serious charges for shit you never knew you did.
People are selfish and self absorbed and if they think it doesn't effect/concern them they don't care (even if everything really does effect them).
Under 40% voter turnout doesn't exactly scream we're a country that gives a shit what our government does.
Right. This is the main issue. If documented proof came out tomorrow that George W. Bush invaded Iraq just to franchise a McDonald's restaurant, the majority of people in this country simply would not care. The remoras on the big bad shark don't care how dirty the shark hunts as long as they get their scraps.
also see "axis of evil"
The reason has always been that GW loves freedom and he wants everyone to be free.
I guess you think because Iraqis are brown they can't love liberty.
I'm sure they probably could. Or maybe not. Maybe they liked the way it was. But we'll never know, because none of us live as a citizen in Iraq.
forces of evil never seem to let up
REBELS VS. EMPIRE
VISIONARY, LUCAS IS. (borrowing from like 15 different directors, he's the Jimmy Hendrix or Jimmy Page of sampling from movies!)
Interesting devil's advocate view here, but I would say that Iraqis don't have that much freedom right now. It's obviously not as bad as Saddam with his "repubic of fear" dictatorship, but Iraqis now live in a new form of terrorism, with a destabilized state that has no real authority and legitimacy DESPITE the recent election. Not only do they have a government that no one believes in, they don't have any basic security. There are terrorists blowing things up in the central cities of the Sunni triangle, while throughout the central and southern parts of the country there is rampant crime with kidnappings, murders, robbery, etc. unheard of in the country before. On a normal day there is also no steady electricity or water, the police hide in their stations afraid of attacks most of the time, and you can always have the U.S. military break down your door and round up all your fighting age men and cart them off, or have a bomb go off in the local market. That's the "freedom" we've brought to a lot of Iraqis right now. You're not safe unless you live in the far northern Kurdish areas, which happened to be safe BEFORE the invasion.
Actually it might be worse now. For the average Iraqi before they had much less political freedom, but they had a lot more freedom from fear. The economy was better, shopping was better, more people were employed, the schools were better, on and on.
If V was here he would point out that Sadaam was gassing whole villages before, but that's more than 10 years before, not just before.
Look at all the freedom we are willing to trade right here so we can drive SUVs and go to the mall.
Funky_Mimizu, are you an ex-pat? You sure sound like the ones I met while travelling...bitching about the U.S. but reaping all the benefits of being from here...I'm exhausted from hearing this point of view...the 20/20 hindsight "I-knew-it-all-along-and-I-have-a-cynical-liberal-self-absorbed-crutch-to-prove-it" attitude wears on my last nerve...it solves nothing...more liberal "blah blah blah" without action...fuck off...and if you aren't from the states then you're being a condescending fuck and stating the obvious and again, solving nothing.
Bush is an oil Baron...we all know this...his motives are self absorbed...and although, shit, I probably agree with 99% of what you have to say, damn...don't make assumptions about America's intelligence level...especially if you don't live here...some of us are fighting the good fight here at home...
Sayonara...
gNAT
Wow! You're quite hostile...
I'm an American in Japan at the moment, and you know what... Being outside of America really has brought me a new found respect for my culture and country.
I didn't mean to sound condescending, I was just calling it as I saw it. I could see where we were headed, and people around me who couldn't see it (like family) while it was happening are always telling me, "yeah, guess you were right!" ANd most of the people in my circle who were somewhat like-minded saw it as well. Seriously... I am not trying to diss America. It is precisely because I love America that I am so disheartened by this shit.
Count me among the crack-pot ilk, but I don't think Bush won the election... I think it was close, but I don't think he won. It was however, close enough to prove that many Americans are unintelligent. Needless to say, whether or not the election was rigged doesn't even matter anymore. No one cares... No one demands anything. Maybe I was a little off in referring to the intelligence level of Americans... The problem NOW is due to a mixture of empathy and ignorance, and yeah, being ignorant does not equate to being unintelligent. However, if you took in the facts, and you still believed we were invading Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction, and that we are now fighting for freedom... I'd say there is a good chance that you could indeed be an idiot (not you Gnat, but anyone).
And I respect anyone keeping up the good fight. But seriously, when you open a foreign newspaper, America is looking dumber and dumber. All the shit that is going on with Iraq, add to that the right-wing theocracy developing in our government... As an ex-pat, I am trying my best to spin some good PR for the US, and letting people know that Americans are by nature, good people... despite our frucked up situation right now.
So, I apologize for making the mistake of talking intelligence, when I think the core of the matter is that most Americans just don't have a clue.
Besides, don't take it so personal... You're not part of the ignorant masses are you? Lots of people aren't, and more and more are waking up as this shit starts to hit home due to the Iraq war.
Peace...
Mimizu
I think they've basically boiled it down to:
CUZ WE SAID SO, FUCKERS![/b]
A bewildered nation looks on briefly, and then goes back to the Talladega Fuck A Goat In The Ass 500....
FBI invades Columbia College. News at 10
To consoldate and maintain power.[/b]
Their primary agenda is to dismantle the non-defense related Federal Government--especially in its capacity to redistribute wealth and regulate business.
Wars keep the populace distracted while the real shit goes down. Not only have these folks started an endless physical war in the cradle of civilization, but they have also started an endless psychological cultural war on our own soil. One will take us down.
Voice 2: Totally dark, eyes closed to the enormity of the disaster.
MODERATION OF THE EXTREMIST[/b]
we live like lost children
Voice 2: Little sister, we???re not a pretty sight. The river and the misery continue. We are powerless.
There is no negation that does not affirm itself elsewhere.
TODAY I'M SLEEPING.[/b]
...it was difficult to die and he had doubts about NOTHING
MODERATION OF THE EXTREMIST[/b]
...that the most urgent expression of freedom is the destruction of
idols, especially when they claim to represent freedom.
we live like lost children
Voice 2: The perfection of suicide lies in its ambiguity.
Voice 2: What is a one and only love?
Voice 3: I will answer only in the presence of my attorney.
That's it right there. Gain a foothold in the middle of the "Axis of Evil," get all the crazy terrorist types to attack you there instead of back home, and start pushing outwards until there's a McDonalds on every corner. And a pipeline from every oil field in Asia to the Whitehouse, all feeding a glorious fountainhead in the oval office.
Am I the only one who gets mad when I hear GW say "We are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here."?
TO me this translates to "We will send young people to die there so we are never inconvienced here." Or in other words, we are sacraficing our young so we can drive SUVs and go to the mall, because their lives aren't important.
Some how to me thats not SUPPORTING THE TROOPS.
I wonder what all of these "Bush makes me feel safe" types will say when there's another attack.
I like how, what's implied in that statement (fighting them "there" rather than here) is that it sounds like it was planned all along, which is ridiculous. "We started the war knowing that it would go badly, just to lure terrorists to Iraq, so we could fight them there... uh.. it was all.. um.. part of the plan"?
I dunno man, sometimes I really think it was. What's few thousand U.S. soldier's lives when theres oil and potential future consumers at stake?
Basically, cannon fodder....
Not to mention that the folks who were attacked last time (NYC, DC/N. VA) overwhelmingly voted him the fuck out of office while those fuckturds out in McRedville talked about how they felt safer.
you're almost funny.
on point.
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