Reading the Wax Po article about Madvillian, Madlib talks about how he never saves any indivudaul parts of his tracks just lays em down as one. I agree soome of his tracks for dudes like MED sound really compressed but the Beat Konducta tracks are pretty raw.
and i guess madlib had something to do with the mix/mastering cus theres way too much compression for me.
Really?? You think Madlib's stuff is overcompressed?? I guess some of his more recent beat work for MCs like MED, Wildchild, Oh No, etc is pushing the needle kinda hot. But I always thought of him as more of a 'ah let's just use the beat tape version, sounds good enough. fuck mastering!' type of dude. I remember reading an interview with Peanut Butter Wolf where he was talking about how much trouble they had mixing and mastering the Further Adventures of Lord Quas because it was alll over the place sonically when Madlib gave it to the label.
yeah i do think his stuff is overcompressed, i think of him more of a 'ah let's just use the beat tape version, sounds good enough. fuck mastering! lets just put this massive compression over everything'
Yeah I guess like Kicks79 said above - some stuff seems really overcompressed, some seems almost too raw. Either way, it's obvious mr jackson is more concerned with banging out the next beat than perfecting each one so that it bangs right.
One thing I'm sorta curious about is if there's any point in getting Donuts and the Madlib jawn on vinyl. My natural impulse is to get the vinyl, but the Madlib cd version has more tracks, right? And Donuts is more like a "space out for an hour without interruption" album for me, so I copped the cd.
... the grooves were just too stressed for me. let me put it this way, you can be offbeat in two ways.. either you hit the notes before the beat (stress), or hit em afterwards, the relaxed way. to me hes just too much on the wrong side here. i dont know how to explain,
Interesting -- I kind of agree. Usually, he does this thing where there's a kick or a little snare or other piece of percussion, thats late right before an early snare. So it give it this neck snapping jerky thing. But he's missing that late kick on Donuts.
But I dont know, this album is perplexing to me. There's this kind of looseness and slow voyager quality. I can't tell if its the work of a dude at the peak of his abilities who is in complete submission and is no longer relying on technique. But the technique is definately there in an under the radar way. Basically I cant tell if its fully realized and ahead of me and going in directions that are further advanced than I am, or if there are errors and if what Dilla was doing at the end of his life is less interesting than what he was doing 4 years ago.
So, Im leaving my mind open about this one. Although, Im sure that Dilla was on some shit that Im not ready for yet.
One thing I love about Donuts is how Jay let's go of the dogma of "A beat has to have loud drums that knock and are high in the mix". On the time-donuts of the heart track for example, I think the vibe you get from it would be ruined if it had the old punchy Dilla drums - it sounds more complete this way.
After the first listen it was too much for me...gave it a second try and couldn't stop listening to it! It's really complex and i like the fact that so much is going on and you can always hear new things happening...indeed a very good example of modern day samplebased music...only two can win is the ish for me...dope album, no question...dilla (RIP)!!!!
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
btw, those hidden messages... has that ever really been confirmed by anybody close to Dilla or is that really just a new school urban legend?
This is a very good question. If anyone knows, plaese report. But, I'll ride to death that they're in there for a reason, anyway.
Solid.
As I said in an earlier Donuts/Dilla thread, some of the songs he sampled certainly seem like conscious and even poignant choices in hindsight - "When I Die", "Don't Say Goodnight", "I Can't Stand To See You Cry" - but I've read a few people say that the "save me" sample in "Workinonit" is one of these "hidden messages". That'd be all well and good, except that the actual words are "fade me", as a quick Google search for the lyrics of 10cc's "Worst Band In The World" will reveal.
i guess madlib had something to do with the mix/mastering cus theres way too much compression for me.
I think the reason why Donuts and a lot of the madlib stuff has that "throbbing" overcompressed sound is that the tracks probably originated as spontaneous direct-to-2-track mixdowns, resulting in widely varying dynamics. So to get everything to play in the same ballpark, the compression applied in the mastering phase is often pretty brutal.
i bought donuts today and finally listened to the whole thing
all i gotta say is...
holy fuck, ive never been more excited to work on beats in my whole life.
this album is absolutely phenomenal.
that is it, i think for people who make sample-based music donuts is INSPIRING. inspirational. makes you want to grab some records and start chopping the fuck out of them. i dont think there can be no higher compliment
i guess madlib had something to do with the mix/mastering cus theres way too much compression for me.
I think the reason why Donuts and a lot of the madlib stuff has that "throbbing" overcompressed sound is that the tracks probably originated as spontaneous direct-to-2-track mixdowns, resulting in widely varying dynamics. So to get everything to play in the same ballpark, the compression applied in the mastering phase is often pretty brutal.
no i am sure many on this forum who do not care for donuts... they probly just do not want to offend anyone after earlier threads where people got bent out of shape. there is no crime in not being a fan of someone's work whether dead or alive, it is just to pour salt on wounds right after a person passes and people are mourning, grieving and trying to celebrate said person's life and music. i think it ok to have discussion and share honest opinions and critiques of dilla's work at this point. that's just me though if you feel different holla i love everybody
As I said in an earlier Donuts/Dilla thread, some of the songs he sampled certainly seem like conscious and even poignant choices in hindsight - "When I Die", "Don't Say Goodnight", "I Can't Stand To See You Cry" - but I've read a few people say that the "save me" sample in "Workinonit" is one of these "hidden messages". That'd be all well and good, except that the actual words are "fade me", as a quick Google search for the lyrics of 10cc's "Worst Band In The World" will reveal.
"Claire" --> "Plaaayers"
Same thing. That's what sampling and music manipulation is all about. Just saying.
why the fuck does Dilla's stuff have to be casted off into cd-r soulseek obscurity while Madlib gets to put out every half-assed idea of his every 2 months?
why the fuck does Dilla's stuff have to be casted off into cd-r soulseek obscurity while Madlib gets to put out every half-assed idea of his every 2 months?
probably because madlib doesn't seem attatched to his beats [compared to dilla] and i'm assuming has no problem just selling a beat to whoevers got the money and/or letting stones throw do as they please with his beat archive... whereas you'll notice that every other story someone tells about j dilla has them mention "he didn't wanna give me that beat at first" or something along those lines... dilla kept his beats in the dark for the most part... and if they were gonna get used, he had to approve... but at least they've leaked so we can finally hear them!
i have a feeling that was gonna change soon since dilla had just started releasing on stones throw as well... too bad it had to end so soon.
and i agree... DONUTS is my favorite album this year so far... and the beat tape #3 i love even more.
i bought donuts today and finally listened to the whole thing
all i gotta say is...
holy fuck, ive never been more excited to work on beats in my whole life.
this album is absolutely phenomenal.
that is it, i think for people who make sample-based music donuts is INSPIRING. inspirational. makes you want to grab some records and start chopping the fuck out of them. i dont think there can be no higher compliment
even more inspiring is the fact that the entire album was made while he was in a hospital bed
I'm really banging the section of "The Diff'rence," "Mash," and "Time: The Donut of the Heart." Especially at the end of "Mash," I'm trying to figure what that is right now.
I love the Kool and the Gang flip. I've already bought 3 copies of the CD. The collector in me got a little crazy - One for the player, one sealed to show off and one for my time capsule.
"Glazed" is the only track that gives me a headache. I want to find out what the vocalage is going on midway though.
i saw a guy paint the "donuts" sign you know the one that's on the record of that dilla donuts thing? yeah, the dude paints it while he's on roller skates. i did a double take but he was up on the roof rolling around painting that thing.
I'm really banging the section of "The Diff'rence," "Mash," and "Time: The Donut of the Heart." Especially at the end of "Mash," I'm trying to figure what that is right now.
It's a timestretch-mutated slice of the breakdown from Lou Rawls' version of "Season Of The Witch" which can be found on this fine LP: RIP Lou.
I was not a huge fan of Dilla. I will admit it, but i was over at the Stones Throw offices before the album was released and they hit me with a copy of the album and i truly am blown away by it. gave me and still gives me goosebumps. i also got a DOnuts coffee mug!!
There is a genuine unpretentiousness about the album. I am still bummed i wasn't able to go to the release party. the whole situation still has me sad.
As I said in an earlier Donuts/Dilla thread, some of the songs he sampled certainly seem like conscious and even poignant choices in hindsight - "When I Die", "Don't Say Goodnight", "I Can't Stand To See You Cry" - but I've read a few people say that the "save me" sample in "Workinonit" is one of these "hidden messages". That'd be all well and good, except that the actual words are "fade me", as a quick Google search for the lyrics of 10cc's "Worst Band In The World" will reveal.
"Claire" --> "Plaaayers"
Same thing. That's what sampling and music manipulation is all about. Just saying.
Exactly, and not to get all over analytical (too late!), but "Workin'onit" came on in the car today and you can hear it say "fade me" or whatever up until the very last time it runs through, then he did something to it to make it say "save me". Just like how he flipped "Lightworks" to make that lady say "light up a spliff". pleasebeeleevet.
I'm really banging the section of "The Diff'rence," "Mash," and "Time: The Donut of the Heart." Especially at the end of "Mash," I'm trying to figure what that is right now.
It's a timestretch-mutated slice of the breakdown from Lou Rawls' version of "Season Of The Witch" which can be found on this fine LP
RIP Lou.
You're a genius. Thanks.
Of course I can't find that record in my crates anywhere. Fuck. I just sold the 45 too.
Exactly, and not to get all over analytical (too late!), but "Workin'onit" came on in the car today and you can hear it say "fade me" or whatever up until the very last time it runs through, then he did something to it to make it say "save me".
he didn't really do anything special to make it say "save me", it's just a different sample from the same song. 10cc. i had that damn record for eons and never would've thought of doing what dilla did with it he really didn't even do a whole lot to it IMO that's just how the record goes when you cut out all the wack singing parts feel me? so dope
Exactly, and not to get all over analytical (too late!), but "Workin'onit" came on in the car today and you can hear it say "fade me" or whatever up until the very last time it runs through, then he did something to it to make it say "save me".
he didn't really do anything special to make it say "save me", it's just a different sample from the same song. 10cc. i had that damn record for eons and never would've thought of doing what dilla did with it he really didn't even do a whole lot to it IMO that's just how the record goes when you cut out all the wack singing parts feel me? so dope
You know what'd be really interesting? If you gave like 10 different "top notch" producers the same crate of records and see what they came out with. Just like what dudes used to do on here.
Comments
This is a very good question. If anyone knows, plaese report. But, I'll ride to death that they're in there for a reason, anyway.
Solid.
Yeah I guess like Kicks79 said above - some stuff seems really overcompressed, some seems almost too raw. Either way, it's obvious mr jackson is more concerned with banging out the next beat than perfecting each one so that it bangs right.
Sorry to hijack.
Interesting -- I kind of agree. Usually, he does this thing where there's a kick or a little snare or other piece of percussion, thats late right before an early snare. So it give it this neck snapping jerky thing. But he's missing that late kick on Donuts.
But I dont know, this album is perplexing to me. There's this kind of looseness and slow voyager quality. I can't tell if its the work of a dude at the peak of his abilities who is in complete submission and is no longer relying on technique. But the technique is definately there in an under the radar way. Basically I cant tell if its fully realized and ahead of me and going in directions that are further advanced than I am, or if there are errors and if what Dilla was doing at the end of his life is less interesting than what he was doing 4 years ago.
So, Im leaving my mind open about this one. Although, Im sure that Dilla was on some shit that Im not ready for yet.
As I said in an earlier Donuts/Dilla thread, some of the songs he sampled certainly seem like conscious and even poignant choices in hindsight - "When I Die", "Don't Say Goodnight", "I Can't Stand To See You Cry" - but I've read a few people say that the "save me" sample in "Workinonit" is one of these "hidden messages". That'd be all well and good, except that the actual words are "fade me", as a quick Google search for the lyrics of 10cc's "Worst Band In The World" will reveal.
I think the reason why Donuts and a lot of the madlib stuff has that "throbbing" overcompressed sound is that the tracks probably originated as spontaneous direct-to-2-track mixdowns, resulting in widely varying dynamics. So to get everything to play in the same ballpark, the compression applied in the mastering phase is often pretty brutal.
all i gotta say is...
holy fuck, ive never been more excited to work on beats in my whole life.
this album is absolutely phenomenal.
that is it, i think for people who make sample-based music donuts is INSPIRING. inspirational. makes you want to grab some records and start chopping the fuck out of them. i dont think there can be no higher compliment
i actually like the compression!
no i am sure many on this forum who do not care for donuts... they probly just do not want to offend anyone after earlier threads where people got bent out of shape. there is no crime in not being a fan of someone's work whether dead or alive, it is just
thats extremely rare for me.
anybody got the mp3s? i bought the 2LP and im too lazy to transfer it, but i definitely wanna rock this in my car. hahaha
"Claire" --> "Plaaayers"
Same thing. That's what sampling and music manipulation is all about. Just saying.
probably because madlib doesn't seem attatched to his beats [compared to dilla] and i'm assuming has no problem just selling a beat to whoevers got the money and/or letting stones throw do as they please with his beat archive... whereas you'll notice that every other story someone tells about j dilla has them mention "he didn't wanna give me that beat at first" or something along those lines... dilla kept his beats in the dark for the most part... and if they were gonna get used, he had to approve... but at least they've leaked so we can finally hear them!
i have a feeling that was gonna change soon since dilla had just started releasing on stones throw as well... too bad it had to end so soon.
and i agree... DONUTS is my favorite album this year so far... and the beat tape #3 i love even more.
I love the Kool and the Gang flip. I've already bought 3 copies of the CD. The collector in me got a little crazy - One for the player, one sealed to show off and one for my time capsule.
"Glazed" is the only track that gives me a headache. I want to find out what the vocalage is going on midway though.
I think so.
It's a timestretch-mutated slice of the breakdown from Lou Rawls' version of "Season Of The Witch" which can be found on this fine LP:
RIP Lou.
There is a genuine unpretentiousness about the album. I am still bummed i wasn't able to go to the release party. the whole situation still has me sad.
Exactly, and not to get all over analytical (too late!), but "Workin'onit" came on in the car today and you can hear it say "fade me" or whatever up until the very last time it runs through, then he did something to it to make it say "save me". Just like how he flipped "Lightworks" to make that lady say "light up a spliff".
pleasebeeleevet.
Of course I can't find that record in my crates anywhere. Fuck. I just sold the 45 too.
Okay, back to the dollar bin...
he didn't really do anything special to make it say "save me", it's just a different sample from the same song. 10cc. i had that damn record for eons and never would've thought of doing what dilla did with it he really didn't even do a whole lot to it IMO that's just how the record goes when you cut out all the wack singing parts feel me? so dope
You know what'd be really interesting? If you gave like 10 different "top notch" producers the same crate of records and see what they came out with. Just like what dudes used to do on here.