Isn't one of the purposes of a site that deals with "Crate Digging DJ and Hip Hop Culture" to show off your finds? While there is a lot of musical discussion on here, there is a difference between a forum dealing with musical discussion and "crate digging."
I think you're right that some people focus on the value of records more than is healthy sometimes. Keep in mind, though, that a lot of us on here are not just collecters, but sellers as well. Check out the sale page and you'll find a ton of strutters getting rid of great music. I think that's partly why people talk prices. It's more than a collection, it's also a way to use one's knowledge to make money.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Check out the sale page and you'll find a ton of strutters getting rid of great music.
Yep, that's my point exactly. If cats appreciate the music so, how can they part with it so easily? I could NEVER bring myself to do it. I love it too much.
For real, though. I often sell music I like. I wish I could keep everything, but I'm living in a studio apartment right now and money is tight. If I can free up space and make some dough by hooking people up with good music, I'll do it in a second. There's also something satisfying about earning money dealing with something you like. Ask T**ga about it, he could probably explain it better. Of course, I'm sure he's shed a tear or two about records he's sold lately!
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Doubles, my man. Doubles.
For real, though. I often sell music I like. I wish I could keep everything, but I'm living in a studio apartment right now and money is tight. If I can free up space and make some dough by hooking people up with good music, I'll do it in a second. There's also something satisfying about earning money dealing with something you like. Ask T**ga about it, he could probably explain it better. Of course, I'm sure he's shed a tear or two about records he's sold lately!
I understand!!! If you need the dough, you gotta do what you gotta. I guess I just can't relate since I'm so obsessive and possessive of my records. I can't let them go no matter how much my wife screams on me. I imagine the need for space can press dudes to sell too.
I tend to like music with a lot of emotion. I like this cd we have of the opera Turndot. I don't know much about opera, but I know that in the early 60s Pavarotti sang Nessa Dorma with a lot of emotion. I don't listen to any other opera because I don't know of any other performance with that much emotion.
When it comes to music I like catagories have very little to do with it but emotion has a lot. Here are some artists that often bring the emotional performances: Dorthy Love Coates Yo Yo Ma Grandmaster Flash Trio Matamoros Dewey Balfa Beatles (Blackbird, She's So Heavy, I Saw Her Standing There...) Frank Sinatra Miles Davis Miriam Makeba Phil Ochs Angelique Kidjo Lily Tchiumba Tom Waits BB King Gil Scott Heron Lester Young
I'd call all the emotional performances from the artists above good music.
I also like a lot of music that might not be good. I like the Kingsmen version of Louie Louie because of how it makes me feel. I like a lot of dance music that the performance are more technical than emotional. But they make me feel good, and that emotion is important. I like a lot of bad music, like some kiddie records, because they make me laugh, or marvel at the fact they were ever made.
I don't care a whole heck of a lot for catagories. They are very useful for discussion purposes though. For the purpose of difining what I like they suck. And I have a strong dislike for micro catagories.
dude civli debates are so fuckin' the shit right now!
Both y'all have valid points and cases. However I'm with Stacks on this. a great deal of folks who are "deep" in here have obscure one or two-trackers. meanwhile the merits of amazing artsits like Aretha Franklin, & Stevie wnder are ahrldy ever spoken about.
check the thread on the sealed copy of thrust. do you think you'll get a thread with as many posts or looks on Cannonball Adderley or a Deneice Williams LP?
might as well, get this question out of the way while we're at it:
What difference is there typically between Soul and RandB?
Here is a reason I don't care for catagories. {disclaimer I use both of these to discuss music).
Both catagories along with Race and Urban were coined, by the music industry, to define popular music made by and for the Black community. The purpose being to seperate it from Pop, and Rock that White people listen to and make.
My definitions Soul: The infusion of gospel rhythms, melodys and vocal techniques into Black popular music. Defined by Ray Charles, Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin.
R&B: What Black popular music was called from the end of the big band era to the start of soul. Defined by Louie Jordan, Wynone Harris and Charles Brown.
But, then R&B started to be used again to define post disco soul music.
In response to something Day said; I am pushing 50 and so are many of my friends are too. They always ask me what "what is house, what is electro" I always answer; disco.
Big Stacks: thanks for participating in this with actual defined ideas.
I think its weird that fokls get kinda guarded about theri tastes. Of course the music you listen to is "good" no one wants to listen to music they don't like, but using one word to describe the music you like is hardly a definition.
Maybe people on here really don't know what they like. Admittedly its not something that you should have to break down but I still think it would be interesting to see what it is that you truly love musically
Hey Guzzo,
As I see it, I don't think a lot of people around here are really music fans (yeah, I said it). I've posted before about how I think that records are considered a commodity on the 'Strut, and there is less appreciation for the music. Like Little Brother said, "...niggas ain't listenin'". I bet this thread won't get over 1,000 views like the weekend finds. Cats rather participate in pissin' contests on some kid shit!!!
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I see a different soulstrut. I rarely read the weekly finds. I am always amazed at how many people in here know and love so many obscure kinds of music. If you ask about some obscure Brazilian record you'll get lots of people dropping knowledge about the artist and other similiar music. That comes from love.
The latest gospel thread mostly got a pass. I think the question "whats some good gospel" turned people (including me off). Still we got into a great discussion of the GolRi label. That's love.
I sell records all day. I come to soulstrut for the music talk and the record knowledge. I just pass on the price checks and the lists most of the time.
Check out the sale page and you'll find a ton of strutters getting rid of great music.
Yep, that's my point exactly. If cats appreciate the music so, how can they part with it so easily? I could NEVER bring myself to do it. I love it too much.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Records are a commodity, they are not music.
How many records do you have?
100? Thats 75 hours of listening.
1000? That's 750 hours of listening.
10,000? That's 7500 hours of listening. If you listen to your records 20 hours a week that's 375 weeks, or 7+ years.
If you are always buying and always selling you get new stuff to listen to all the time. And like Supreme says "it nevers ends". There is always a new old record out there. Your favorite music will always come back again, they made more than one copy of all those records.
Here is a reason I don't care for catagories. {disclaimer I use both of these to discuss music)....
Dan
yeah I agree that terms others have coined suck, which is why I am asking peple to define their own music likes.
I'm still pretty shocked that many haven't bothered to do so.
Actually I liked your catagorie descriptions, because they define just exactly what YOU mean when you use them. That's important to know because we/you use them all the time.
does this mean I can go ahead and show-off my cheap finds??! please. please. please.
I can say though that I definitely get the same amount of satisfaction listening to my common LPs and CDs as I do with rare/valuable ones. Ofcourse, i ain't mad at finding rares for cheap, and thinking..."oh shit!! this is that joint!!!".
Modern Soul[/b] - 1977 - 1983 R&B with a smoother feel than most 70's soul music. usually lots of synth and horns. music done in a typically upbeat style and the drums are never 4 on the floor
guzzo
see i have problem with these kind of sub definitions of genres because there specificty is just straight up silly.
like why is modern soul "never 4 on the floor"
lets pick a random 12"
Convertion - Let's Do It classic leroy burgess production.
the time frame is correct
there's loads of synths and its pretty dang smooth... oh but wait its 4 on the floor and mixable!!!! DISQUALIFIED.
now flip the 12" over and we get the upbeat quiet storm "All I Want Is You"... this track is "Modern Soul" by your definition.
so what the fuck is this 12"??? do you call Convertion a Modern Soul group on the strength of the jam on the B-side???
that kinda shit doesnt make any sense to me. and obviously people are gonna get confused / frustrated if you start throwing these kind of arbitrary terms around.
it also ignores the fact that this group in question is ALREADY classified as Boogie. It's on Sam its Leroy Burgess.. it got caned in the Garage / Warehouse back in the day... THE SHIT IS BOOGIE.
this whole "the drums are never 4 on the floor" rule just seems like a way for you to reclassify Boogie / Electro Funk acts in a manner that removes them from their already established position in the history of Dance Music. And I can't see a reason why you would want to do that unless you have a problem with calling things Dance Music...
I don't know you personally or anything like that but this anti Dance / 4 on the Floor thing just seems like a cop out way for alot of people to listen to music that was orginally classified and appreciated by a predominantly GAY audience, and i hate to say i get the feeling that dudes have problems with that.
Check out the sale page and you'll find a ton of strutters getting rid of great music.
Yep, that's my point exactly. If cats appreciate the music so, how can they part with it so easily? I could NEVER bring myself to do it. I love it too much.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
I understand what you're talking about here. I know there are people on here and elsewhere who only have, listen to and collect raer records. Go through their collection and not a handful of common DOPE records in the bunch. Part of me asks, "does this person even REALLY LOVE music?" When I then also realize that some people are purely into it for business. I can't blame them for that, but I just know it's not how I appreciate music, nor could I live with myself if I discriminated on pressing numbers.
I don't know where anyone on here comes off telling others they don't really like music.
You can infer a man's (or woman's) motives by their actions.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey man, you're generally a cool guy but I think you're way out of line on this shit. Particularly in a thread where people are trying to define what music they like with catchphrases. You yourself say in this thread that you can't possibly sell any of your records, when I'm sure you've got some stinkers yourself... I mean seriously.
And not for nothing, fuck the ambiguous language too. Say what you mean.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
I don't know where anyone on here comes off telling others they don't really like music.
You can infer a man's (or woman's) motives by their actions.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey man, you're generally a cool guy but I think you're way out of line on this shit. Particularly in a thread where people are trying to define what music they like with catchphrases. You yourself say in this thread that you can't possibly sell any of your records, when I'm sure you've got some stinkers yourself... I mean seriously.
And not for nothing, fuck the ambiguous language too. Say what you mean.
Hey Paycheck,
Sorry, I thought I said what I meant. If cats dig music so much, why is there so little discussion about it? All we do around here is list, list, list. I guess like someone else said, maybe this site is not for the purpose of music appreciation. It seems like people are more into seeing who can piss the farthest instead of talking about the music. I miss that with my older bro and our friends (I'm way outta state, now) where we'd talk about finds and play them for one another. Or, we'd describe how the LP sounds to one another to generate interest. I think dudes are on some trophy shit up in here.
As far as hoarding "stinker" albums goes, when I was younger I used to trade off wack joints while shoppin' (low cash flow). Now, I'm just more selective in what I buy. Usually, there is something appreciable about each LP I buy, but then again, I don't shop as much as I used to.
I don't know you personally or anything like that but this anti Dance / 4 on the Floor thing just seems like a cop out way for alot of people to listen to music that was orginally classified and appreciated by a predominantly GAY audience, and i hate to say i get the feeling that dudes have problems with that.
When I first started reading Goldmine magazine in the 1980's it was all about 1950's R&B 45s. Most of these 45s had 2 sides; ballad and jump. In the 80's it was all about the jump side, but later cats started collecting the ballad side.
If a typical disco 12" has a FOTF side and a Quite Storm/Modern Soul side I see nothing wrong with someone saying they perfer the QS side. I don't think that makes them anti-gay, only anti FOTF.
How many "funk 45s" have a soul side? Often it was the soul side that was the hit in the Black community. Are you racist if you perfer the funk side?
I don't know where anyone on here comes off telling others they don't really like music.
You can infer a man's (or woman's) motives by their actions.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey man, you're generally a cool guy but I think you're way out of line on this shit. Particularly in a thread where people are trying to define what music they like with catchphrases. You yourself say in this thread that you can't possibly sell any of your records, when I'm sure you've got some stinkers yourself... I mean seriously.
And not for nothing, fuck the ambiguous language too. Say what you mean.
Hey Guzzo,
Sorry, I thought I said what I meant. If cats dig music so much, why is there so little discussion about it? All we do around here is list, list, list. I guess like someone else said, maybe this site is not for the purpose of music appreciation. It seems like people are more into seeing who can piss the farthest instead of talking about the music. I miss that with my older bro and our friends (I'm way outta state, now) where we'd talk about finds and play them for one another. Or, we'd describe how the LP sounds to one another to generate interest. I think dudes are on some trophy shit up in here.
As far as hoarding "stinker" albums goes, when I was younger I used to trade off wack joints while shoppin' (low cash flow). Now, I'm just more selective in what I buy. Usually, there is something appreciable about each LP I buy, but then again, I don't shop as much as I used to.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Well, I'm not Guzzo but um... you've clearly got a grudge about weekend finds posts... don't see how that carries on to: "people here don't like music". Don't you think people who spend hundreds of dollars a week on records might actually like the music on them? This is a surprisingly immature post from you.
There's plenty of discussion about music on here. What else do you want? As a matter of fact, this past weekend I posted some finds, and aside from the standard "nice!" or "DIE" posts had a decent discussion about a label and some artists. Did you miss it? Or were you not interested because they weren't records you knew?
The fact that you don't like weekend finds posts doesn't have shit to do with others on this site not liking music. There's plenty of great knowledge being passed around all the time and it seems to me that you're just mad that there's not enough discussion about music YOU like....
I don't know where anyone on here comes off telling others they don't really like music.
Look, I can't help but wonder sometimes, and that's all I was saying in my post. I don't pass judgement on anyone here or elsewhere and I hope I'm given that same respect.
If a typical disco 12" has a FOTF side and a Quite Storm/Modern Soul side I see nothing wrong with someone saying they perfer the QS side. I don't think that makes them anti-gay, only anti FOTF.
i hear what your saying man.. but it doesnt change the fact that its still a disco 12" and the act was still a disco act... whether the b-side is a ballad or not...
it would be like taking a record like sgt peppers.. lets say your fave song is "when im 65" (how im not sure but just for the sake of argument)... you could easily drum up a pile of other throwback to the big band era type tracks done by psych bands and create a name for said genre "i really dig that grandma psych" ... but the term would basically just be some bullshit pulled out of your ass shit... it completely removes the tracks from the context in which they were originally placed... and the only reason i can see to do that is to distance something from the elements you don't like.
i mean there's multiple angles to look at things,.
i remember when i was in art school art history was all about CONTENT / CONTEXT / CONCEPT... so when you studied the impressionists you had to study the society they lived in.. absinthe, prostitution. If you were talking about somebody like Toulouse Letrec it had to be placed within the fact that he was a GAY man in the bohemian arty Parisian society. You had to place the works in this content.
Then when my wife was in grad school in indiana i had a job for awhile as the AV guy for the art history deptartment which meant i had to sit in durring their classes... They were only interested in the FORMAL issues in the work.. ie materials and technique... toulouse letrec in this class was nothing more than a good draftsperson who made posters and he was thus discussed in the context of the history of printmaking and litho and things like that.. no mention was ever put on his sexuality, his involvement in the intellectual clime of the time... the entire CONTEXT of his work was ignored.
now technically neither approach is wrong you can analyse the man's work from either angle but frankly the latter approach was pretty much a way of pussyfooting around anything that might be too controversial for the department to come to grips with.
If a typical disco 12" has a FOTF side and a Quite Storm/Modern Soul side I see nothing wrong with someone saying they perfer the QS side. I don't think that makes them anti-gay, only anti FOTF.
i hear what your saying man.. but it doesnt change the fact that its still a disco 12" and the act was still a disco act... whether the b-side is a ballad or not...
it would be like taking a record like sgt peppers.. lets say your fave song is "when im 65" (how im not sure but just for the sake of argument)... you could easily drum up a pile of other throwback to the big band era type tracks done by psych bands and create a name for said genre "i really dig that grandma psych" ... but the term would basically just be some bullshit pulled out of your ass shit... it completely removes the tracks from the context in which they were originally placed... and the only reason i can see to do that is to distance something from the elements you don't like.
I am already on record as disliking micro genres. But since we use them all the time Guz was asking people to define their terms.
i mean there's multiple angles to look at things,.
i remember when i was in art school art history was all about CONTENT / CONTEXT / CONCEPT... so when you studied the impressionists you had to study the society they lived in.. absinthe, prostitution. If you were talking about somebody like Toulouse Letrec it had to be placed within the fact that he was a GAY man in the bohemian arty Parisian society. You had to place the works in this content.
Then when my wife was in grad school in indiana i had a job for awhile as the AV guy for the art history deptartment which meant i had to sit in durring their classes... They were only interested in the FORMAL issues in the work.. ie materials and technique... toulouse letrec in this class was nothing more than a good draftsperson who made posters and he was thus discussed in the context of the history of printmaking and litho and things like that.. no mention was ever put on his sexuality, his involvement in the intellectual clime of the time... the entire CONTEXT of his work was ignored.
now technically neither approach is wrong you can analyse the man's work from either angle but frankly the latter approach was pretty much a way of pussyfooting around anything that might be too controversial for the department to come to grips with.
I am all for context. Last time I brought up the importance of context AP called me 3 kinds of an asshole and claimed that he only liked music when he didn't know the context. Now I understand why. Ayo.
Dan
PS On a tangent, I think groups like to claim famous people and movements for themselves. If everyone in history was gay, or dyslexic, or African, or an atheist, or God fearing, like all these groups like to claim, then all of civiliziation was founded by gaydyslexicafricanatheistgodfearers.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
I don't know where anyone on here comes off telling others they don't really like music.
You can infer a man's (or woman's) motives by their actions.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey man, you're generally a cool guy but I think you're way out of line on this shit. Particularly in a thread where people are trying to define what music they like with catchphrases. You yourself say in this thread that you can't possibly sell any of your records, when I'm sure you've got some stinkers yourself... I mean seriously.
And not for nothing, fuck the ambiguous language too. Say what you mean.
Hey Guzzo,
Sorry, I thought I said what I meant. If cats dig music so much, why is there so little discussion about it? All we do around here is list, list, list. I guess like someone else said, maybe this site is not for the purpose of music appreciation. It seems like people are more into seeing who can piss the farthest instead of talking about the music. I miss that with my older bro and our friends (I'm way outta state, now) where we'd talk about finds and play them for one another. Or, we'd describe how the LP sounds to one another to generate interest. I think dudes are on some trophy shit up in here.
As far as hoarding "stinker" albums goes, when I was younger I used to trade off wack joints while shoppin' (low cash flow). Now, I'm just more selective in what I buy. Usually, there is something appreciable about each LP I buy, but then again, I don't shop as much as I used to.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Well, I'm not Guzzo but um... you've clearly got a grudge about weekend finds posts... don't see how that carries on to: "people here don't like music". Don't you think people who spend hundreds of dollars a week on records might actually like the music on them? This is a surprisingly immature post from you.
There's plenty of discussion about music on here. What else do you want? As a matter of fact, this past weekend I posted some finds, and aside from the standard "nice!" or "DIE" posts had a decent discussion about a label and some artists. Did you miss it? Or were you not interested because they weren't records you knew?
The fact that you don't like weekend finds posts doesn't have shit to do with others on this site not liking music. There's plenty of great knowledge being passed around all the time and it seems to me that you're just mad that there's not enough discussion about music YOU like....
Yo Paycheck (my bad for the "Guzzo" thing),
I don't mind weekend find posts, it just would be nice to go deeper with them. Instead of simply listing, why not describe how the records sound (or at least some of them). I did read the "Folkways" thread and it was interesting; however, it is the exception and not the rule. Usually, it's "price check this" and "the pressing number for "X" LP is this", blah, blah, blah. And, I do understand the subtle (or not so subtle) implication you are making concerning record knowledge. That's cool, think what you wish, holmes. I'm secure enough in myself not to engage in petty pissin' contests to show off the collection. I could give less than a flip what dudes think. I have much of the stuff cats crave myself, but who needs to know? Whether I did or not wouldn't have any effect on my self-esteem. Why talk about stuff I've already found, or don't enjoy anyway? I'm not afraid of discussing "the basics" because they are usually better LPs (barring exceptions, of course). As I've said, I leave the pissin' contests for the youngsters. That's why I try to avoid beef. I was only speaking my mind, they're just opinions. Who the hell cares what I think anyway?
Comments
Yep, that's my point exactly. If cats appreciate the music so, how can they part with it so easily? I could NEVER bring myself to do it. I love it too much.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
For real, though. I often sell music I like. I wish I could keep everything, but I'm living in a studio apartment right now and money is tight. If I can free up space and make some dough by hooking people up with good music, I'll do it in a second. There's also something satisfying about earning money dealing with something you like. Ask T**ga about it, he could probably explain it better. Of course, I'm sure he's shed a tear or two about records he's sold lately!
I like allmusic.com also.
I understand!!! If you need the dough, you gotta do what you gotta. I guess I just can't relate since I'm so obsessive and possessive of my records. I can't let them go no matter how much my wife screams on me. I imagine the need for space can press dudes to sell too.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
When it comes to music I like catagories have very little to do with it but emotion has a lot. Here are some artists that often bring the emotional performances:
Dorthy Love Coates
Yo Yo Ma
Grandmaster Flash
Trio Matamoros
Dewey Balfa
Beatles (Blackbird, She's So Heavy, I Saw Her Standing There...)
Frank Sinatra
Miles Davis
Miriam Makeba
Phil Ochs
Angelique Kidjo
Lily Tchiumba
Tom Waits
BB King
Gil Scott Heron
Lester Young
I'd call all the emotional performances from the artists above good music.
I also like a lot of music that might not be good. I like the Kingsmen version of Louie Louie because of how it makes me feel. I like a lot of dance music that the performance are more technical than emotional. But they make me feel good, and that emotion is important. I like a lot of bad music, like some kiddie records, because they make me laugh, or marvel at the fact they were ever made.
I don't care a whole heck of a lot for catagories. They are very useful for discussion purposes though. For the purpose of difining what I like they suck. And I have a strong dislike for micro catagories.
Dan
Both y'all have valid points and cases. However I'm with Stacks on this. a great deal of folks who are "deep" in here have obscure one or two-trackers. meanwhile the merits of amazing artsits like Aretha Franklin, & Stevie wnder are ahrldy ever spoken about.
check the thread on the sealed copy of thrust. do you think you'll get a thread with as many posts or looks on Cannonball Adderley or a Deneice Williams LP?
Here is a reason I don't care for catagories. {disclaimer I use both of these to discuss music).
Both catagories along with Race and Urban were coined, by the music industry, to define popular music made by and for the Black community. The purpose being to seperate it from Pop, and Rock that White people listen to and make.
My definitions
Soul: The infusion of gospel rhythms, melodys and vocal techniques into Black popular music. Defined by Ray Charles, Sam Cooke and Aretha Franklin.
R&B: What Black popular music was called from the end of the big band era to the start of soul. Defined by Louie Jordan, Wynone Harris and Charles Brown.
But, then R&B started to be used again to define post disco soul music.
In response to something Day said; I am pushing 50 and so are many of my friends are too. They always ask me what "what is house, what is electro" I always answer; disco.
Dan
yeah I agree that terms others have coined suck, which is why I am asking peple to define their own music likes.
I'm still pretty shocked that many haven't bothered to do so.
I see a different soulstrut. I rarely read the weekly finds. I am always amazed at how many people in here know and love so many obscure kinds of music. If you ask about some obscure Brazilian record you'll get lots of people dropping knowledge about the artist and other similiar music. That comes from love.
The latest gospel thread mostly got a pass. I think the question "whats some good gospel" turned people (including me off). Still we got into a great discussion of the GolRi label. That's love.
I sell records all day. I come to soulstrut for the music talk and the record knowledge. I just pass on the price checks and the lists most of the time.
Dan
haha.
damn, thanks for those really clear definitions. They make a lot of sense.
Records are a commodity, they are not music.
How many records do you have?
100? Thats 75 hours of listening.
1000? That's 750 hours of listening.
10,000? That's 7500 hours of listening. If you listen to your records 20 hours a week that's 375 weeks, or 7+ years.
If you are always buying and always selling you get new stuff to listen to all the time. And like Supreme says "it nevers ends". There is always a new old record out there. Your favorite music will always come back again, they made more than one copy of all those records.
Actually I liked your catagorie descriptions, because they define just exactly what YOU mean when you use them. That's important to know because we/you use them all the time.
I can say though that I definitely get the same amount of satisfaction listening to my common LPs and CDs as I do with rare/valuable ones. Ofcourse, i ain't mad at finding rares for cheap, and thinking..."oh shit!! this is that joint!!!".
guzzo
see i have problem with these kind of sub definitions of genres because there specificty is just straight up silly.
like why is modern soul "never 4 on the floor"
lets pick a random 12"
Convertion - Let's Do It classic leroy burgess production.
the time frame is correct
there's loads of synths and its pretty dang smooth... oh but wait its 4 on the floor and mixable!!!! DISQUALIFIED.
now flip the 12" over and we get the upbeat quiet storm "All I Want Is You"... this track is "Modern Soul" by your definition.
so what the fuck is this 12"??? do you call Convertion a Modern Soul group on the strength of the jam on the B-side???
that kinda shit doesnt make any sense to me. and obviously people are gonna get confused / frustrated if you start throwing these kind of arbitrary terms around.
it also ignores the fact that this group in question is ALREADY classified as Boogie. It's on Sam its Leroy Burgess.. it got caned in the Garage / Warehouse back in the day... THE SHIT IS BOOGIE.
this whole "the drums are never 4 on the floor" rule just seems like a way for you to reclassify Boogie / Electro Funk acts in a manner that removes them from their already established position in the history of Dance Music. And I can't see a reason why you would want to do that unless you have a problem with calling things Dance Music...
I don't know you personally or anything like that but this anti Dance / 4 on the Floor thing just seems like a cop out way for alot of people to listen to music that was orginally classified and appreciated by a predominantly GAY audience, and i hate to say i get the feeling that dudes have problems with that.
can you say modern soul? i was talking to M*c** P*r*e* bout this term & we had some really good laughs...
I understand what you're talking about here. I know there are people on here and elsewhere who only have, listen to and collect raer records. Go through their collection and not a handful of common DOPE records in the bunch. Part of me asks, "does this person even REALLY LOVE music?" When I then also realize that some people are purely into it for business. I can't blame them for that, but I just know it's not how I appreciate music, nor could I live with myself if I discriminated on pressing numbers.
You can infer a man's (or woman's) motives by their actions.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
AKA "That crack."
-e
Hey man, you're generally a cool guy but I think you're way out of line on this shit. Particularly in a thread where people are trying to define what music they like with catchphrases. You yourself say in this thread that you can't possibly sell any of your records, when I'm sure you've got some stinkers yourself... I mean seriously.
And not for nothing, fuck the ambiguous language too. Say what you mean.
Hey Paycheck,
Sorry, I thought I said what I meant. If cats dig music so much, why is there so little discussion about it? All we do around here is list, list, list. I guess like someone else said, maybe this site is not for the purpose of music appreciation. It seems like people are more into seeing who can piss the farthest instead of talking about the music. I miss that with my older bro and our friends (I'm way outta state, now) where we'd talk about finds and play them for one another. Or, we'd describe how the LP sounds to one another to generate interest. I think dudes are on some trophy shit up in here.
As far as hoarding "stinker" albums goes, when I was younger I used to trade off wack joints while shoppin' (low cash flow). Now, I'm just more selective in what I buy. Usually, there is something appreciable about each LP I buy, but then again, I don't shop as much as I used to.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
When I first started reading Goldmine magazine in the 1980's it was all about 1950's R&B 45s. Most of these 45s had 2 sides; ballad and jump. In the 80's it was all about the jump side, but later cats started collecting the ballad side.
If a typical disco 12" has a FOTF side and a Quite Storm/Modern Soul side I see nothing wrong with someone saying they perfer the QS side. I don't think that makes them anti-gay, only anti FOTF.
How many "funk 45s" have a soul side? Often it was the soul side that was the hit in the Black community. Are you racist if you perfer the funk side?
Well, I'm not Guzzo but um... you've clearly got a grudge about weekend finds posts... don't see how that carries on to: "people here don't like music". Don't you think people who spend hundreds of dollars a week on records might actually like the music on them? This is a surprisingly immature post from you.
There's plenty of discussion about music on here. What else do you want? As a matter of fact, this past weekend I posted some finds, and aside from the standard "nice!" or "DIE" posts had a decent discussion about a label and some artists. Did you miss it? Or were you not interested because they weren't records you knew?
The fact that you don't like weekend finds posts doesn't have shit to do with others on this site not liking music. There's plenty of great knowledge being passed around all the time and it seems to me that you're just mad that there's not enough discussion about music YOU like....
Look, I can't help but wonder sometimes, and that's all I was saying in my post. I don't pass judgement on anyone here or elsewhere and I hope I'm given that same respect.
i hear what your saying man.. but it doesnt change the fact that its still a disco 12" and the act was still a disco act... whether the b-side is a ballad or not...
it would be like taking a record like sgt peppers.. lets say your fave song is "when im 65" (how im not sure but just for the sake of argument)... you could easily drum up a pile of other throwback to the big band era type tracks done by psych bands and create a name for said genre "i really dig that grandma psych" ... but the term would basically just be some bullshit pulled out of your ass shit... it completely removes the tracks from the context in which they were originally placed... and the only reason i can see to do that is to distance something from the elements you don't like.
i mean there's multiple angles to look at things,.
i remember when i was in art school art history was all about CONTENT / CONTEXT / CONCEPT... so when you studied the impressionists you had to study the society they lived in.. absinthe, prostitution. If you were talking about somebody like Toulouse Letrec it had to be placed within the fact that he was a GAY man in the bohemian arty Parisian society. You had to place the works in this content.
Then when my wife was in grad school in indiana i had a job for awhile as the AV guy for the art history deptartment which meant i had to sit in durring their classes... They were only interested in the FORMAL issues in the work.. ie materials and technique... toulouse letrec in this class was nothing more than a good draftsperson who made posters and he was thus discussed in the context of the history of printmaking and litho and things like that.. no mention was ever put on his sexuality, his involvement in the intellectual clime of the time... the entire CONTEXT of his work was ignored.
now technically neither approach is wrong you can analyse the man's work from either angle but frankly the latter approach was pretty much a way of pussyfooting around anything that might be too controversial for the department to come to grips with.
I am already on record as disliking micro genres. But since we use them all the time Guz was asking people to define their terms.
I am all for context. Last time I brought up the importance of context AP called me 3 kinds of an asshole and claimed that he only liked music when he didn't know the context. Now I understand why. Ayo.
Dan
PS On a tangent, I think groups like to claim famous people and movements for themselves. If everyone in history was gay, or dyslexic, or African, or an atheist, or God fearing, like all these groups like to claim, then all of civiliziation was founded by gaydyslexicafricanatheistgodfearers.
Yo Paycheck (my bad for the "Guzzo" thing),
I don't mind weekend find posts, it just would be nice to go deeper with them. Instead of simply listing, why not describe how the records sound (or at least some of them). I did read the "Folkways" thread and it was interesting; however, it is the exception and not the rule. Usually, it's "price check this" and "the pressing number for "X" LP is this", blah, blah, blah. And, I do understand the subtle (or not so subtle) implication you are making concerning record knowledge. That's cool, think what you wish, holmes. I'm secure enough in myself not to engage in petty pissin' contests to show off the collection. I could give less than a flip what dudes think. I have much of the stuff cats crave myself, but who needs to know? Whether I did or not wouldn't have any effect on my self-esteem. Why talk about stuff I've already found, or don't enjoy anyway? I'm not afraid of discussing "the basics" because they are usually better LPs (barring exceptions, of course). As I've said, I leave the pissin' contests for the youngsters. That's why I try to avoid beef. I was only speaking my mind, they're just opinions. Who the hell cares what I think anyway?
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
So for the sake of continuing this discussion, I like 60 minute bongo solos, and records made for business conventions.