I think there are two reasons that Joey Crack doesn't sell:
1. He is uninteresting lyrically (i.e., he is a 12" artist).
2. He is not palatable to White folks (he's too rough for their sensibilities).
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Uninteresting lyricaly, too rough .... yep, sounds like 50 to me! If you ask me, that's TOTALLY the formula for huge success in 2005!
Hey Phill,
I agree that 50 cent is uninteresting lyrically as well, but he's a little more "smoothed over" and "softer" that the Crackman. I guess that mumblin' style of his is easier to swallow (note, I never understand what the fuck he's saying'). Plus, the chicks dig his physique. I'm sure suburban white girls have Mandingo fantasies about fuckin' dude. That couldn't hurt his record sales either. I would doubt that the same applies to Joe.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Okay, good points... I see what you're saying. Even though 50 talks about killing people, he does it in a softer, smoother manner. And most of his biggest hits really are straight up non-threatening ( "In The Club", "21 Questions", "Magic Stick", "Candy Shop" "A Little Bit"). Is it me or isn't that the main thing he used to get on Ja about? Cue Divine Sounds: "WHAT... PEO-PLE DO... FOR MUH-NAAAAAAY". Can't knock his hustle, though... the boy had a plan and made it reality in a short span of time. To layin' up in a hospital riddled with bullets and broke to taking helicopter rides right to his spacious mansion in Connecticut in just a few years of grindin'. Get rich or die tryin' is right.
Didn't really know how to put it into words, but I think Big Stacks did it.
IE 50 talks about going to the "candy store" and Joe would just say "I got that bitch to suck my dick".
Everyone knows what 50's inuendo (SP?) means, but like you all said he's smooth about it. Joe just comes out and says it.
I'd still reather listen to Joe, but I don't really buy his stuff.
1. As has been said, 50 has a better touch with pop-friendly choruses. "Lean Back" might be great in the club, but you can't hum it to yourself, and it makes a shitty ringtone. Any of 50's big hits works in either of those contexts, which I find to be a pretty good barometer for how pop/top-40 ready a song is. Big Pun also had the singable chorus thing down, which is why he sold better than Joe.
2. You can't overlook the looks factor. To be blunt, if girls like the way the artist looks, they will sell more records. 50 is just more photo and videogenic than Joe.
3. 50 might just be working with more talented and better connected people.
If you listen to 50 before he got shot in the jaw, you can tell that he changed his style. When he did How To Rob, Power Of The Dollar and Guess Who's Back, he wasn't as smooth as he his now and his lyrics were more in your face. He toned it down a little and learned how to right catchy hooks.
He also learned that women buy more albums than men. Once the women like you, you go platinum.
As Phil pointed out Puerto Ricans are considered black. I grow up in the So. Bronx and in Newark, NJ and when the police harassed us, we were all niggers. A cop will tell you quick, they just bilingual niggers. I hate the word personally, but that's how it's been ever since I was a kid. Puerto Ricans will always have a "pass".
1) Big Pun went multi-plat and being Puerto Rican didn't damage his sales any. The difference is that Pun had a lot more commercial hits than Joe has had.
Also consider, "Lean Back" was Joe's first MAJOR hit and though it was a huge song, the Terror Squad album wasn't the vehicle to capitalize on it. Look at "Ouchie Wallie" vs. the QBs Finest CD - you didn't see the latter benefitting that much from the success of the former. And I'm not sure on how Jay-Z's "La Familia" CD did on the strength of "I Just Wanna Love You."
In short, having a pop hit doesn't guarantee CD success. 50 Cent didn't blow up JUST on the strength of "In Da Club" after all - it was partially due to his back story being written about in tons of press, it was partially due to how big the G-Unit mix-CDs were, it was partially due to Eminem and Dr. Dre being his mentors, etc. etc.
Just to say this too: I'm not sure there's a "formula" per se - you can just pick apart, in hindsight all the things you think help explain why someone blows up but it's not like you can hope to duplicate that.
This all said, if Fat Joe wanted to be more successful, he should look at how Ja Rule went multi-plat by churning out one syrupy rap-R&B ballad after another. Sure, it made Ja look softer than Charmin but then again, he went 3x plat off that shit too. I don't think Joe would go for that.
2) Not being either black nor PR, I can't speak with any personal authority on this but the idea that PR = black has been challenged by a lot of PR's. I'm thinking in partiuclar of Raquel Rivera's study of Puerto Ricans in NY's hip hop scene ("New York Ricans in the Hip Hop Zone") which I think quite astutely points out that if PR = black then African Americans wouldn't be so defensive when it comes to sharing social benefits historically afforded the black community. Nor would PR women be sexualized in such a specific way as to distinguish them from other "black" women.
I think it's more the case that PRs are embraced by Blacks when it's convenient. So, for example, when people bring up the fact that PR youth were as active as Black youth in the bronx in the 1970s, thereby disturbing the master narrative that hip-hop = a purely "black thing", one common response is to say, "well, PR youth were racialized as black so in fact, hip-hop is still black even if you take into account the PR contribution." that's all well and good but it doesn't explain why PR and Black gangs spent most of the '70s warring with each other or why there's been many examples of community tension and competition between them since.
Hell, in a lot of cities, Black folk have issues with West African and Caribbean immigrants b/c of scarce resources. The former feel like it's wack that these recent immigrants, many of whom tend to be better educated and have more money, benefit from affirmative action policies simply because they're racially "black" even though have very different cultural histories. Given that reality, I'm doubtful that, when push comes to shove, the Puerto Rican population would be so easily assimilated into American blackness.
More to the point too, I'm pretty sure the PR population has no desire to lose their cultural distinctiveness via such an assimilation process (even if one were to exist). Boriquos/boriquas seem pretty damn proud of their heritage and even those who are down with their African American brothers and sisters are still going to rep Puerto Rico (ho!) as a badge of pride.
2a) Just to bring this back to Fat Joe, does anyone else remember how print ads for his first album featured a blerb from Diamond D who said, "the first time I heard him rhyme, I thought he was black." I wish I had kept a clipping of that - it was so bizarre yet understandable.
3) As for the whole "who has the right to use the word 'nigga'" - man, if ever there was a term that's been gradually transformed from one of the most explosive invectives ever into something that you hear everyday, everywher, it's the n-word. And honestly, if that word has spilled out of control in pop culture, there's really no other culprit to blame than hip-hop.
Personally, I cringe when I hear anyone NOT black spraying it like an ooh-wop (whatever that is) just b/c it's really one of those words that never should have been historically detached from its original meaning but hell, I can hardly blame kids for being stupid with it when every other rap song uses it as if it's no big deal.
But in terms of the policy around who can use it and who can't, I think the common sense application is whether you'd walk up to a group of Black men on a street corner and say, "what up n***a!" and see if you'd catch a beatdown for it.
3a) As another sidenote, I'm annoyed though that there's so much ruckus around the n-word while other offensive racial terms get bantied about with no second mind. I got toys trying to goad me by calling me a "chinaman" whereas if I ever let fly with the n-word, even in a satirical fashion, I'd get ripped a new one. Fuck that double standard.
3a) As another sidenote, I'm annoyed though that there's so much ruckus around the n-word while other offensive racial terms get bantied about with no second mind. I got toys trying to goad me by calling me a "chinaman" whereas if I ever let fly with the n-word, even in a satirical fashion, I'd get ripped a new one. Fuck that double standard.
Huge can of worms there in your last subsection. [Obviously some ethnic groups get a pass when it comes to racist slurs/themes/jokes. Def comedy jam comes to mind. And how far are we willing to go in destroying that double standard? Fag gets bandied about around here quite a bit also...] Just to tie the Fat Joe-scarce resources thing together: I remember seeing Joey on a Rap City episode years ago where they were filming him in a PR-run bodega saying, "this is great to see a boriqua running a store; too often there's a Jew or Chinese behind the registers around here..." or some shit. Not sure what to make of that, just reminiscing...damn I wish I still had all my Rap City VHS'...
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
It sure wasn't around here. How long has that song even been out??? It must've been bubblin' on the underground for a loooooong ass time. And I don't think a whole lot of middle aged middle class white folks were walkin' around singin' "tippin' on 4 Vogues" last year.
Damn Phill, act like you know! All kinds of middle aged white people in my mom's neighborhood were rollin' in their Volvos singin' "Still tippin' in Volvos wrapped in Volvos!"
Joe will never be as big as 50, but the TS album and his album won't sell because he's on a label run by morons who don't know shit. It's that simple.
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
Joe will never be as big as 50, but the TS album and his album won't sell because he's on a label run by morons who don't know shit. It's that simple.
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
There were THREE hits on that album??? Fo' real? Damn, what were the other two??? That's ill that you thought "So Much More" was bland... I thought that shit was pretty damn hot. But I guess you and my wife know what's really not good... seems like that shit has already pretty much disappeared. Real headz know the deal on "Safe To Say", but I don't see that one as having a chance of doing anything on the pop side- as it's been said before in this thread, just too hardcore for mainstream America. I just can't help but believe that with some of the hits that Joe has put out, if he was down with the Aftermath team in some capacity he'd be selling a lot more records. Who knows, though.
Knowing Kirk and Gaby a bit...hmmm...Johnny is right. It's a matter of street team, marketin plan and new ideas to develop artists, added with original concept to make people talk.
Joe will never be as big as 50, but the TS album and his album won't sell because he's on a label run by morons who don't know shit. It's that simple.
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
There were THREE hits on that album??? Fo' real? Damn, what were the other two??? That's ill that you thought "So Much More" was bland... I thought that shit was pretty damn hot. But I guess you and my wife know what's really not good... seems like that shit has already pretty much disappeared. Real headz know the deal on "Safe To Say", but I don't see that one as having a chance of doing anything on the pop side- as it's been said before in this thread, just too hardcore for mainstream America. I just can't help but believe that with some of the hits that Joe has put out, if he was down with the Aftermath team in some capacity he'd be selling a lot more records. Who knows, though.
1. Yeah Yeah Yeah
2. Lean Back
3. Take You Home
The strength of #2 alone should've blown the album. Signs of a weak label...
As for "So Much More" I kinda like it (nodicksnot) but it's just not as compelling as "Safe To Say". Despite having been around for a minute on mixtapes and whatnot, you need a full video, promo push, etc to blow shit to white america. That record could've blown, for sure. Come on, it's basically rap-rock! With a Public Enemy hook! PE was one of the biggest groups to white folks of all time! The label just dropped the ball on it.
2) Not being either black nor PR, I can't speak with any personal authority on this but the idea that PR = black has been challenged by a lot of PR's. I'm thinking in partiuclar of Raquel Rivera's study of Puerto Ricans in NY's hip hop scene ("New York Ricans in the Hip Hop Zone") which I think quite astutely points out that if PR = black then African Americans wouldn't be so defensive when it comes to sharing social benefits historically afforded the black community. Nor would PR women be sexualized in such a specific way as to distinguish them from other "black" women.
I think it's more the case that PRs are embraced by Blacks when it's convenient. So, for example, when people bring up the fact that PR youth were as active as Black youth in the bronx in the 1970s, thereby disturbing the master narrative that hip-hop = a purely "black thing", one common response is to say, "well, PR youth were racialized as black so in fact, hip-hop is still black even if you take into account the PR contribution." that's all well and good but it doesn't explain why PR and Black gangs spent most of the '70s warring with each other or why there's been many examples of community tension and competition between them since.
Hell, in a lot of cities, Black folk have issues with West African and Caribbean immigrants b/c of scarce resources. The former feel like it's wack that these recent immigrants, many of whom tend to be better educated and have more money, benefit from affirmative action policies simply because they're racially "black" even though have very different cultural histories. Given that reality, I'm doubtful that, when push comes to shove, the Puerto Rican population would be so easily assimilated into American blackness.
More to the point too, I'm pretty sure the PR population has no desire to lose their cultural distinctiveness via such an assimilation process (even if one were to exist). Boriquos/boriquas seem pretty damn proud of their heritage and even those who are down with their African American brothers and sisters are still going to rep Puerto Rico (ho!) as a badge of pride.
Well, O, there definitely are obvious differences between Puerto Rican Americans and typical black folks. Cultural, language, appearance, etc. As I said earlier, personally I see them as black people but I know a lot of people on both sides don't see it that way. Regardless, although most people probably see Puerto Rican as having fair skin and straight / curly hair, there are plenty of Puerto Ricans who are dark skinned with kinky hair, too. One incident that bugged me out when I was a young dude spending a lot of time in a Spanish neighborhood was when I noticed this Puerto Rican cat who was darker skinned and had nappier hair than I have actin' real funny style with me. So I asked me boy (also Puerto Rican) "yo, what's up with this guy?", and he told me "He doesn't like black people"! WHOA, talk about your cultural rude awakening! But you have a lot of that in the black community- light skinned folks not liking dark skinned folks and vice versa, animosity for or between Jamaicans, Haitians, West Indians, Africans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc. Like I said, everybody's not gonna see it the same way, but they're still all black to me. Hell, I know black people who don't want to be called black people! Shit's deep, man.
One incident that bugged me out when I was a young dude spending a lot of time in a Spanish neighborhood was when I noticed this Puerto Rican cat who was darker skinned and had nappier hair than I have actin' real funny style with me. So I asked me boy (also Puerto Rican) "yo, what's up with this guy?", and he told me "He doesn't like black people"! WHOA, talk about your cultural rude awakening! sad but true, some people don't have any knowledge of who they are or where they came from.
I think I'm the only person in the world that likes "So Much More" more than "Safe to Say"... but to each their own.
But as for as why Joe won't blow up, I mean, I think it's already been covered by most people, but just to reiterate: the simple fact is that girls are the ones buying records and girls are the ones determining whether or not a song is hot in the club. Fat Joe just doesn't have the sex appeal nor the charisma that someone like 50 or Ja Rule has. And it's not just because he's fat. After all, as has been stated, Biggie and Big Pun sold hella records, but I suppose the difference is that they had that fat-boy charisma thing going for them. Joe, on the other hand, is just on some street shit with his.
Also, there's the odd fact that just because a song is big in the club doesn't mean the album is gonna sell well. Both State Property albums had pretty big club hits ("Roc the Mic" and "Can't Stop Won't Stop") but those records didn't sell for shit. Why not? Becasue even though girls'll dance to that shit in the club, they don't wanna cop that shit.
So, if the jawns ain't feeling you, you ain't selling massive units.
Joe will never be as big as 50, but the TS album and his album won't sell because he's on a label run by morons who don't know shit. It's that simple.
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
TS album was on SRC, but I think Joe's sh!t is still coming out through Atlantic...
Joe will never be as big as 50, but the TS album and his album won't sell because he's on a label run by morons who don't know shit. It's that simple.
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
TS album was on SRC, but I think Joe's sh!t is still coming out through Atlantic...
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2004 AND in 2005)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2003 AND in 2004)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
This post is great: Archaic manages to conflate the listening habits of rap fans in southern states with the voting habits of white people in red states.
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2003 AND in 2004)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
This post is great: Archaic manages to conflate the listening habits of rap fans in southern states with the voting habits of white people in red states.
Either way...due to white rednecks in Kentucky or black bammas in Texas...y'all's self-serving, high brow bullshit has finally become null and void.
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2003 AND in 2004)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
This post is great: Archaic manages to conflate the listening habits of rap fans in southern states with the voting habits of white people in red states.
Either way...due to white rednecks in Kentucky or black bammas in Texas...y'all's self-serving, high brow bullshit has finally become null and void.
Y'all are aware that "Still Tippin" was like the song of 2004
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2004 AND in 2005)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
Clearly, you're too connected to the streets.
When we say "___ is the song of ____" here we're talking about uber-over-ground-mainstream shit. I'm not talking about any sense of authentic hip-hop communities. I'm talking about white girls jocking that shit at the club and on clear channel radio.
There is no way in hell you are going to convince me that white girls everywhere but on the east coast would rather shake their booty to "Still Tippin" than "Lean Back"... especially in 2004. That song didn't break on a huge mainstream level until 2005.
Don't be ridiculous just for the sake of being inciting.
No way...the extreme liberalism of Berkeley does not translate to Austin. Maybe Austin is the most Berkeley-like city in Texas...but to equate the 2...hecka nope.
Comments
Didn't really know how to put it into words, but I think Big Stacks did it.
IE 50 talks about going to the "candy store" and Joe would just say "I got that bitch to suck my dick".
Everyone knows what 50's inuendo (SP?) means, but like you all said he's smooth about it. Joe just comes out and says it.
I'd still reather listen to Joe, but I don't really buy his stuff.
1. As has been said, 50 has a better touch with pop-friendly choruses. "Lean Back" might be great in the club, but you can't hum it to yourself, and it makes a shitty ringtone. Any of 50's big hits works in either of those contexts, which I find to be a pretty good barometer for how pop/top-40 ready a song is. Big Pun also had the singable chorus thing down, which is why he sold better than Joe.
2. You can't overlook the looks factor. To be blunt, if girls like the way the artist looks, they will sell more records. 50 is just more photo and videogenic than Joe.
3. 50 might just be working with more talented and better connected people.
If you listen to 50 before he got shot in the jaw, you can tell that he changed his style. When he did How To Rob, Power Of The Dollar and Guess Who's Back, he wasn't as smooth as he his now and his lyrics were more in your face. He toned it down a little and learned how to right catchy hooks.
He also learned that women buy more albums than men. Once the women like you, you go platinum.
As Phil pointed out Puerto Ricans are considered black. I grow up in the So. Bronx and in Newark, NJ and when the police harassed us, we were all niggers. A cop will tell you quick, they just bilingual niggers. I hate the word personally, but that's how it's been ever since I was a kid. Puerto Ricans will always have a "pass".
Peace
Also consider, "Lean Back" was Joe's first MAJOR hit and though it was a huge song, the Terror Squad album wasn't the vehicle to capitalize on it. Look at "Ouchie Wallie" vs. the QBs Finest CD - you didn't see the latter benefitting that much from the success of the former. And I'm not sure on how Jay-Z's "La Familia" CD did on the strength of "I Just Wanna Love You."
In short, having a pop hit doesn't guarantee CD success. 50 Cent didn't blow up JUST on the strength of "In Da Club" after all - it was partially due to his back story being written about in tons of press, it was partially due to how big the G-Unit mix-CDs were, it was partially due to Eminem and Dr. Dre being his mentors, etc. etc.
Just to say this too: I'm not sure there's a "formula" per se - you can just pick apart, in hindsight all the things you think help explain why someone blows up but it's not like you can hope to duplicate that.
This all said, if Fat Joe wanted to be more successful, he should look at how Ja Rule went multi-plat by churning out one syrupy rap-R&B ballad after another. Sure, it made Ja look softer than Charmin but then again, he went 3x plat off that shit too. I don't think Joe would go for that.
2) Not being either black nor PR, I can't speak with any personal authority on this but the idea that PR = black has been challenged by a lot of PR's. I'm thinking in partiuclar of Raquel Rivera's study of Puerto Ricans in NY's hip hop scene ("New York Ricans in the Hip Hop Zone") which I think quite astutely points out that if PR = black then African Americans wouldn't be so defensive when it comes to sharing social benefits historically afforded the black community. Nor would PR women be sexualized in such a specific way as to distinguish them from other "black" women.
I think it's more the case that PRs are embraced by Blacks when it's convenient. So, for example, when people bring up the fact that PR youth were as active as Black youth in the bronx in the 1970s, thereby disturbing the master narrative that hip-hop = a purely "black thing", one common response is to say, "well, PR youth were racialized as black so in fact, hip-hop is still black even if you take into account the PR contribution." that's all well and good but it doesn't explain why PR and Black gangs spent most of the '70s warring with each other or why there's been many examples of community tension and competition between them since.
Hell, in a lot of cities, Black folk have issues with West African and Caribbean immigrants b/c of scarce resources. The former feel like it's wack that these recent immigrants, many of whom tend to be better educated and have more money, benefit from affirmative action policies simply because they're racially "black" even though have very different cultural histories. Given that reality, I'm doubtful that, when push comes to shove, the Puerto Rican population would be so easily assimilated into American blackness.
More to the point too, I'm pretty sure the PR population has no desire to lose their cultural distinctiveness via such an assimilation process (even if one were to exist). Boriquos/boriquas seem pretty damn proud of their heritage and even those who are down with their African American brothers and sisters are still going to rep Puerto Rico (ho!) as a badge of pride.
2a) Just to bring this back to Fat Joe, does anyone else remember how print ads for his first album featured a blerb from Diamond D who said, "the first time I heard him rhyme, I thought he was black." I wish I had kept a clipping of that - it was so bizarre yet understandable.
3) As for the whole "who has the right to use the word 'nigga'" - man, if ever there was a term that's been gradually transformed from one of the most explosive invectives ever into something that you hear everyday, everywher, it's the n-word. And honestly, if that word has spilled out of control in pop culture, there's really no other culprit to blame than hip-hop.
Personally, I cringe when I hear anyone NOT black spraying it like an ooh-wop (whatever that is) just b/c it's really one of those words that never should have been historically detached from its original meaning but hell, I can hardly blame kids for being stupid with it when every other rap song uses it as if it's no big deal.
But in terms of the policy around who can use it and who can't, I think the common sense application is whether you'd walk up to a group of Black men on a street corner and say, "what up n***a!" and see if you'd catch a beatdown for it.
3a) As another sidenote, I'm annoyed though that there's so much ruckus around the n-word while other offensive racial terms get bantied about with no second mind. I got toys trying to goad me by calling me a "chinaman" whereas if I ever let fly with the n-word, even in a satirical fashion, I'd get ripped a new one. Fuck that double standard.
Huge can of worms there in your last subsection. [Obviously some ethnic groups get a pass when it comes to racist slurs/themes/jokes. Def comedy jam comes to mind. And how far are we willing to go in destroying that double standard? Fag gets bandied about around here quite a bit also...] Just to tie the Fat Joe-scarce resources thing together: I remember seeing Joey on a Rap City episode years ago where they were filming him in a PR-run bodega saying, "this is great to see a boriqua running a store; too often there's a Jew or Chinese behind the registers around here..." or some shit. Not sure what to make of that, just reminiscing...damn I wish I still had all my Rap City VHS'...
Damn Phill, act like you know! All kinds of middle aged white people in my mom's neighborhood were rollin' in their Volvos singin' "Still tippin' in Volvos wrapped in Volvos!"
I mean look, the TS record had THREE hits on it! THREE! Did it even break gold?
Joe's first single is a fiasco. He put out a bland cut that will disappear next month instead of the Just Blaze joint that would've made a mark. Shame on SRC. And Joe is the "wroooooooong nigga to fuck with!"
There were THREE hits on that album??? Fo' real? Damn, what were the other two???
That's ill that you thought "So Much More" was bland... I thought that shit was pretty damn hot. But I guess you and my wife know what's really not good... seems like that shit has already pretty much disappeared. Real headz know the deal on "Safe To Say", but I don't see that one as having a chance of doing anything on the pop side- as it's been said before in this thread, just too hardcore for mainstream America.
I just can't help but believe that with some of the hits that Joe has put out, if he was down with the Aftermath team in some capacity he'd be selling a lot more records. Who knows, though.
I still think that "piggybank" was a stunt...
1. Yeah Yeah Yeah
2. Lean Back
3. Take You Home
The strength of #2 alone should've blown the album. Signs of a weak label...
As for "So Much More" I kinda like it (nodicksnot) but it's just not as compelling as "Safe To Say". Despite having been around for a minute on mixtapes and whatnot, you need a full video, promo push, etc to blow shit to white america. That record could've blown, for sure. Come on, it's basically rap-rock! With a Public Enemy hook! PE was one of the biggest groups to white folks of all time! The label just dropped the ball on it.
Well, O, there definitely are obvious differences between Puerto Rican Americans and typical black folks. Cultural, language, appearance, etc. As I said earlier, personally I see them as black people but I know a lot of people on both sides don't see it that way. Regardless, although most people probably see Puerto Rican as having fair skin and straight / curly hair, there are plenty of Puerto Ricans who are dark skinned with kinky hair, too. One incident that bugged me out when I was a young dude spending a lot of time in a Spanish neighborhood was when I noticed this Puerto Rican cat who was darker skinned and had nappier hair than I have actin' real funny style with me. So I asked me boy (also Puerto Rican) "yo, what's up with this guy?", and he told me "He doesn't like black people"! WHOA, talk about your cultural rude awakening!
But you have a lot of that in the black community- light skinned folks not liking dark skinned folks and vice versa, animosity for or between Jamaicans, Haitians, West Indians, Africans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, etc. Like I said, everybody's not gonna see it the same way, but they're still all black to me. Hell, I know black people who don't want to be called black people! Shit's deep, man.
sad but true, some people don't have any knowledge of who they are or where they came from.
But as for as why Joe won't blow up, I mean, I think it's already been covered by most people, but just to reiterate: the simple fact is that girls are the ones buying records and girls are the ones determining whether or not a song is hot in the club. Fat Joe just doesn't have the sex appeal nor the charisma that someone like 50 or Ja Rule has. And it's not just because he's fat. After all, as has been stated, Biggie and Big Pun sold hella records, but I suppose the difference is that they had that fat-boy charisma thing going for them. Joe, on the other hand, is just on some street shit with his.
Also, there's the odd fact that just because a song is big in the club doesn't mean the album is gonna sell well. Both State Property albums had pretty big club hits ("Roc the Mic" and "Can't Stop Won't Stop") but those records didn't sell for shit. Why not? Becasue even though girls'll dance to that shit in the club, they don't wanna cop that shit.
So, if the jawns ain't feeling you, you ain't selling massive units.
I really think it's that simple.
-e
Dude, this is a ridiculous statement.
-e
TS album was on SRC, but I think Joe's sh!t is still coming out through Atlantic...
Right, edit: shame on Atlantic, they suck too.
Are you kidding me???
It clearly was the song of the year down here (in 2004 AND in 2005)...and let's not forget that you Eastern Seaboarders no longer matter (see the 2004 election). So noone really cares if y'all are gonna co-sign on "Still Tippin" or not. I reallly hate this term, but that's some real "real talk" for ya.
This post is great: Archaic manages to conflate the listening habits of rap fans in southern states with the voting habits of white people in red states.
Either way...due to white rednecks in Kentucky or black bammas in Texas...y'all's self-serving, high brow bullshit has finally become null and void.
Who are you calling y'all? I'm from Atlanta.
But Atlanta is merely New York South.
Oh jeez... I don't even have anything to say to that, it's so absurd. You don't know anything about my city.
Full disclosure: I love Austin.
I go there every Thanksgiving to visit family in the Jonesboro area.
Besides I'm just messing with ya.
Clearly, you're too connected to the streets.
When we say "___ is the song of ____" here we're talking about uber-over-ground-mainstream shit. I'm not talking about any sense of authentic hip-hop communities. I'm talking about white girls jocking that shit at the club and on clear channel radio.
There is no way in hell you are going to convince me that white girls everywhere but on the east coast would rather shake their booty to "Still Tippin" than "Lean Back"... especially in 2004. That song didn't break on a huge mainstream level until 2005.
Don't be ridiculous just for the sake of being inciting.
-e
No need to state the obvious.
But why?
I couldn't care less about what rap East Coast white girls are listening to.
Then don't contribute to this thread because that's what it's about.
-e
No way...the extreme liberalism of Berkeley does not translate to Austin. Maybe Austin is the most Berkeley-like city in Texas...but to equate the 2...hecka nope.
Is that what your mommy told you?
No, it's what the East Coast journalists told me.
-e