IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
IN facts alot of artists have never done most of the stuff they fill their music with.
It ain't that simple though...like the difference between an on-the-level, out-of-state Houston rap fan and a carpetbaggeur. Either you are down with the perspective or you aren't. There, it's that simple.
I've been reading a lot of stuff coming out of New Orleans lately...currently Triksta by Nik Cohn...and I was talking to my wife last night about how by reading the first coupla chapters I was at least mildly optimistic about this British transplant actually 'getting it' when it comes to NOLA rap, only to have that optimism shattered once dude goes from a curious onlooker to yet another white man who can't keep his capitalist hands off of anything with promise. Anyway I ran down a list of the different shades of 'getting it':
1. Curious from afar. 2. Owning a few records from that place. 3. Having visited the place. 4. Having lived in the place. 5. Intimately knowing insiders from that place. 6. Obtaining an understanding of that place.
This is about as far as most folks ever get...which is always trumped by the following:
7. Being identified as of that place.
In other words, the signifiers of that place are so much a part of you, either on purpose or not, that others view you as an extension of that place.
As far as our discussion here, it backs up what I was saying earlier as far as certain artist being contrived in their I-want-to-lead-these-lowly-people posturing versus those who are merely speaking from the perspective of their actual lives.
I realize this is all over the place...and I'm not sure that it refutes the idea that you must do something to speak on it...but if nothing else it's should be some good shit to think about.
I think we are saying the same thing, you put it much better. Artists don't have to live through it but they do have to be close enough to write realistically about it. I still think Death Certificate is an amazing album even though most of the story rhymes aren't from Cube's life.
hard to take some dudes from NYC seriously when they are putting themselves out like that.
I don't know if you're bored or what, but you keep fishing for beef and it's really transparent.
no not fishing for beef, just saying what I and people I know had said, if anytihng I'm just cosigning with 33 on his comment.
But yes, I am bored at work
I don't see any real difference between a kid from an LA suburb pretending he knows something about banging and a kid from NYC walking in a video.
talk about fishing for beef.
Well if you must know there is Neighborhood Crip out in my suburb, on top of that Growing up dudes form hoover would hang around and about out here. Talk to your boy Dr*z he'll tell you about some of the esse's in my sleepy suburb. My little brother has been jumped by dudes claiming 18th street less than a block from my home and various other gangrelated bullshit happened throughout the years over here including some of my friends getting caught up in some serious dumb ass gang drama. But all of that is neither here nor there. I am not making music videos in which I am chasing girls with prosthetic noses and finding amputees to C-walk during mid song interludes. Instead of trying to make this personal why don't we go back to the current topic of discussion. People on the west coast don't seem to take dipset seriously.
Is there really an argument to be had about that? I think you've conceeded in the past that no one outside of NY is really taking dipset seriously.
I know about the sets in your burb dude. I mean there were sets in Berkeley. Doesn't mean you really have any authority to call out some guy you don't know as being fake.
I mean, dude, you've been making this argument up as you go along to the point where now you're trying to distinguish between "real" and "fake" claiming. I thought you were against all that negativity?
I mean, dude, you've been making this argument up as you go along to the point where now you're trying to distinguish between "real" and "fake" claiming. I thought you were against all that negativity?
huh?
I started by questioning Faux's hip-hop tastes
then I used an example of Cam'ron slanging drugs
than I said I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
after that 33thrid said a lot of people in the west don't seem to take Dipset seriously and I concurred and cited one of their music videos as a reason why people out here may see them as more of a joke than a serious group of artists.
I only mentioned my neighborhood cause you turned it personal and asked what a dude from the suburbs would know about shit like this. I probably shouldn't have even responded to that. My bad.
I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
There it is.
so whats wrong with that? in my first reply to Faux I said I'm cool with anyone listening to any kind of music. It's just when they champion a more ignorant form of the music and bash those known to be more concious that I question as to what youre getting out of the songs.
I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
There it is.
so whats wrong with that?
I think folks have made it clear that they champion Cam because he's good. Not because he's amusing, which kind of smacks of condescension.
people also poke fun at his arrogant attitude, loud style of dress, and choice of words. There is a humor element to Cam'ron's persona and lyrics. Do you disagree?
I don't listen to Eightball & MJG, UGK, Trick Daddy or T.I. because I have an insatiable hunger for "stereotypical characters"--I listen to those artists because, among other things, they are responsible for some of the most soulful, thoughtful and, yes, "conscious" hip-hop ever recorded. .
your parnties are showing.
seriously, I wish I can say I'm suprised by the individual responses in this thread b/w What the fuck is Phonte talking about? w/ bonus track : "A little suprised Phonte feels a majority of those southern dudes-in a good way."
I don't listen to Eightball & MJG, UGK, Trick Daddy or T.I. because I have an insatiable hunger for "stereotypical characters"--I listen to those artists because, among other things, they are responsible for some of the most soulful, thoughtful and, yes, "conscious" hip-hop ever recorded. .
Is there anyway to summarize these 3+ pagers (minus the weekend finds & PC vs reasonable speek thraeds) in highlights, quotes, pics etc. ? Blue collar people wanna catch up.
people who are passionate about the south expect everybody else to care about the south too, and when they don't, there results an asshurtation.
Just like they were with def jux/anticon/scientifical rap, etc... Staying power is the true measure of musical quality, IMO. I'll be interested to see if any of these records will be fucked with in 5 years. I have a feeling this shit will get clowned like Rawkus one day.
As far as I know, all the people that were ever enthusiastic about superscientifical rap still are.
And if this record lacked staying power I think it probably would have become apparent at some point over the last thirteen years:
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a response
I mean outside of mega-stars like Jay and Rolling Stone poster boys like De La a lot of rap music isn't historically relevant on a wide scale. Personally it's obviously a different story (reminds when that cornball Vitamin said Soundbombing II was the best album ever or something)
people who are passionate about the south expect everybody else to care about the south too, and when they don't, there results an asshurtation.
Just like they were with def jux/anticon/scientifical rap, etc... Staying power is the true measure of musical quality, IMO. I'll be interested to see if any of these records will be fucked with in 5 years. I have a feeling this shit will get clowned like Rawkus one day.
As far as I know, all the people that were ever enthusiastic about superscientifical rap still are.
And if this record lacked staying power I think it probably would have become apparent at some point over the last thirteen years:
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a response
Saying that a given individual may not have heard of either of two artists doesn't establish much; it's a lot more meaningful to look at who has heard of, embraced and been influenced by each artist.
I'm not shocked to learn that Eightball & MJG's fanbase never really extended to the Bay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are foundation artists that inspired a whole generation of artists from the South that now pretty much run rap. [Archaic]And if you don't know about that that's really on you--it doesn't diminish them.[/Archaic]
Nobody that came to fame through Rawkus has ever achieved anything remotely comparable.
I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
There it is.
so whats wrong with that?
I think folks have made it clear that they champion Cam because he's good. Not because he's amusing, which kind of smacks of condescension.
Naw JP, a good amount of folks do feel Cam and /or rap music in genral because it's "amusing" read: "ig'nant".
If it makes you feel better then, yes, I will say I see Cam'ron as an ignorant rapper. I see most people that champion drug dealing, turning women into pieces of meat, and risking your life over material items then bragging about it as ignorant.
I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
There it is.
so whats wrong with that?
I think folks have made it clear that they champion Cam because he's good. Not because he's amusing, which kind of smacks of condescension.
Naw JP, a good amount of folks do feel Cam and /or rap music in genral because it's "amusing" read: "ig'nant".
If it makes you feel better then, yes, I will say I see Cam'ron as an ignorant rapper. I see most people that champion drug dealing, turning women into pieces of meat, and risking your life over material items then bragging about it as ignorant.
I'm loving how you're so concerned about the impact that Cam's content has on the Black community, but deem a white mind such as your own sufficiently able to distinguish between right/wrong and entertainment/reality to own and safely enjoy his album.
people who are passionate about the south expect everybody else to care about the south too, and when they don't, there results an asshurtation.
Just like they were with def jux/anticon/scientifical rap, etc... Staying power is the true measure of musical quality, IMO. I'll be interested to see if any of these records will be fucked with in 5 years. I have a feeling this shit will get clowned like Rawkus one day.
As far as I know, all the people that were ever enthusiastic about superscientifical rap still are.
And if this record lacked staying power I think it probably would have become apparent at some point over the last thirteen years:
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a response
Saying that a given individual may not have heard of either of two artists doesn't establish much; it's a lot more meaningful to look at who has heard of, embraced and been influenced by each artist.
I'm not shocked to learn that Eightball & MJG's fanbase never really extended to the Bay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are foundation artists that inspired a whole generation of artists from the South that now pretty much run rap. [Archaic]And if you don't know about that that's really on you--it doesn't diminish them.[/Archaic]
Nobody that came to fame through Rawkus has ever achieved anything remotely comparable.
"well yeah dog,,,I mean yeah Eightball & MJG wheren't really that big but...ummm...T.I. liked 'em !"
But who really fucking cares... . These talks on Soulstrut are retarded.
people who are passionate about the south expect everybody else to care about the south too, and when they don't, there results an asshurtation.
Just like they were with def jux/anticon/scientifical rap, etc... Staying power is the true measure of musical quality, IMO. I'll be interested to see if any of these records will be fucked with in 5 years. I have a feeling this shit will get clowned like Rawkus one day.
As far as I know, all the people that were ever enthusiastic about superscientifical rap still are.
And if this record lacked staying power I think it probably would have become apparent at some point over the last thirteen years:
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a response
Saying that a given individual may not have heard of either of two artists doesn't establish much; it's a lot more meaningful to look at who has heard of, embraced and been influenced by each artist.
I'm not shocked to learn that Eightball & MJG's fanbase never really extended to the Bay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are foundation artists that inspired a whole generation of artists from the South that now pretty much run rap. [Archaic]And if you don't know about that that's really on you--it doesn't diminish them.[/Archaic]
Nobody that came to fame through Rawkus has ever achieved anything remotely comparable.
"well yeah dog,,,I mean yeah Eightball & MJG wheren't really that big but...ummm...T.I. liked 'em !"
They were hugely popular... gold records with very little airplay. Just not apparently where you live.
But who really fucking cares... . These talks on Soulstrut are retarded.
If you feel that way, then perhaps you should stay out of them.
If it makes you feel better then, yes, I will say I see Cam'ron as an ignorant rapper. I see most people that champion drug dealing, turning women into pieces of meat, and risking your life over material items then bragging about it as ignorant.
well, well. we have just come full circle.
i go out to objectify women and slang some rocks and this shit is a twelve pager.
if you don't like southern music. you're wrong and racist. embrace it.
p.s. Guzzo, i had the extreme pleasure of hearing your raps on tv, and now learning that you are on the west coast.. it does NOT surpise me that you bit your whole style from Project Blowed.
I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
There it is.
so whats wrong with that?
I think folks have made it clear that they champion Cam because he's good. Not because he's amusing, which kind of smacks of condescension.
Naw JP, a good amount of folks do feel Cam and /or rap music in genral because it's "amusing" read: "ig'nant".
If it makes you feel better then, yes, I will say I see Cam'ron as an ignorant rapper. I see most people that champion drug dealing, turning women into pieces of meat, and risking your life over material items then bragging about it as ignorant.
I'm loving how you're so concerned about the impact that Cam's content has on the Black community, but deem a white mind such as your own sufficiently able to distinguish between right/wrong and entertainment/reality to own and safely enjoy his album.
I'm not talking about how black kids perceive this music, I'm talking on how white people (such as yourself) only seem to feel comfortable with the "shuck and jive" aspect of it
can you post the concious, soulful Trick Daddy tracks please?
if you want to get educated, read a book...and stop analyzing rap lyrics. all these posts about the authenticity of rappers is...meaningless. the whole industry is entertainment, from public enemy to d4l. i appreciate rappers with a message, but damn if i'm gonna read too much into what some dude wrote in about the same time it takes me to write a few emails. And so what if jay-z experienced "x" and nas (or whoever else) didn't...you really think the black community has elected jay-z as the their spokesperson? he is an entertainer...bottom line!
the only worthy debate, imo, is whether people in the mainstream are actually listening to the lyrics of sh*t like laffy taffy and forming an opinion about anything at all. that would be a shame.
can you post the concious, soulful Trick Daddy tracks please?
[Trick Daddy] Here go one for, all these killings and all these conflicts in religion See the Muslims, Jews and Christians but know they are all God's children There's only, one him, plus ain't none of y'all confronting him So blind in our own minds we wouldn't even know God if 'we was in front him' And, I read your books know all your remixes to the Bible What about a verse for the thugs, a cure for drugs and survival Let's add some chapters nameed Martin, Malcolm and Farrakhan In all my history books, only one died was the Americans And, that's point of my, who's responsible for Vietnam And, hold on there's more, we had two World Wars And, how come the judges make more than the teachers is making When they the ones raising all the taxes and got us fighting for education Life is crazy ain't it
[Chorus] So many tears, through out the years Somebody tell me what's going on And so many lives, but only God knows About the pain deep inside It gets so hard, you got to keep your head up I know you're fed up, but stay strong Here's a message from coast to coast Cause when them thugs really need it the most, thug holiday
people who are passionate about the south expect everybody else to care about the south too, and when they don't, there results an asshurtation.
Just like they were with def jux/anticon/scientifical rap, etc... Staying power is the true measure of musical quality, IMO. I'll be interested to see if any of these records will be fucked with in 5 years. I have a feeling this shit will get clowned like Rawkus one day.
As far as I know, all the people that were ever enthusiastic about superscientifical rap still are.
And if this record lacked staying power I think it probably would have become apparent at some point over the last thirteen years:
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a response
Saying that a given individual may not have heard of either of two artists doesn't establish much; it's a lot more meaningful to look at who has heard of, embraced and been influenced by each artist.
I'm not shocked to learn that Eightball & MJG's fanbase never really extended to the Bay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are foundation artists that inspired a whole generation of artists from the South that now pretty much run rap. [Archaic]And if you don't know about that that's really on you--it doesn't diminish them.[/Archaic]
Nobody that came to fame through Rawkus has ever achieved anything remotely comparable.
"well yeah dog,,,I mean yeah Eightball & MJG wheren't really that big but...ummm...T.I. liked 'em !"
They were hugely popular... gold records with very little airplay. Just not apparently where you live.
But who really fucking cares... . These talks on Soulstrut are retarded.
If you feel that way, then perhaps you should stay out of them.
Allow me to clarify
"These talks on Soulstrut with dudes from the internet[/b] are retarded"
Comments
I think we are saying the same thing, you put it much better. Artists don't have to live through it but they do have to be close enough to write realistically about it. I still think Death Certificate is an amazing album even though most of the story rhymes aren't from Cube's life.
talk about fishing for beef.
Well if you must know there is Neighborhood Crip out in my suburb, on top of that Growing up dudes form hoover would hang around and about out here. Talk to your boy Dr*z he'll tell you about some of the esse's in my sleepy suburb. My little brother has been jumped by dudes claiming 18th street less than a block from my home and various other gangrelated bullshit happened throughout the years over here including some of my friends getting caught up in some serious dumb ass gang drama. But all of that is neither here nor there. I am not making music videos in which I am chasing girls with prosthetic noses and finding amputees to C-walk during mid song interludes. Instead of trying to make this personal why don't we go back to the current topic of discussion. People on the west coast don't seem to take dipset seriously.
Is there really an argument to be had about that? I think you've conceeded in the past that no one outside of NY is really taking dipset seriously.
I mean, dude, you've been making this argument up as you go along to the point where now you're trying to distinguish between "real" and "fake" claiming. I thought you were against all that negativity?
huh?
I started by questioning Faux's hip-hop tastes
then I used an example of Cam'ron slanging drugs
than I said I enjoy cam'ron but only from the perspective of him being a parody
after that 33thrid said a lot of people in the west don't seem to take Dipset seriously and I concurred and cited one of their music videos as a reason why people out here may see them as more of a joke than a serious group of artists.
I only mentioned my neighborhood cause you turned it personal and asked what a dude from the suburbs would know about shit like this. I probably shouldn't have even responded to that. My bad.
lets either get back on topic or drop the issue
There it is.
so whats wrong with that? in my first reply to Faux I said I'm cool with anyone listening to any kind of music. It's just when they champion a more ignorant form of the music and bash those known to be more concious that I question as to what youre getting out of the songs.
I think folks have made it clear that they champion Cam because he's good. Not because he's amusing, which kind of smacks of condescension.
people also poke fun at his arrogant attitude, loud style of dress, and choice of words. There is a humor element to Cam'ron's persona and lyrics. Do you disagree?
ok I thought we were starting to get somewhere in actual discussion but I guess not.
forget it
your parnties are showing.
seriously, I wish I can say I'm suprised by the individual responses in this thread b/w What the fuck is Phonte talking about? w/ bonus track : "A little suprised Phonte feels a majority of those southern dudes-in a good way."
Don't be such a ponce.
What's real funny to me is that Faux & Noz are mentioning albums/artists that outside of their own private focus/region are completely irrelevant to a place like the Bay or New York. You really think outside of rap nerds and bloggers Goodie Mob is a force in their lives? Don't get me wrong I fucking love that first Goodie Mob album but at the most you'll maybe get a decent reaction out of "cell therapy" in a club and that's about it. To average rap listenr some rawkus shit and some "soutern classic" will recieve a
I mean outside of mega-stars like Jay and Rolling Stone poster boys like De La a lot of rap music isn't historically relevant on a wide scale. Personally it's obviously a different story (reminds when that cornball Vitamin said Soundbombing II was the best album ever or something)
Naw JP, a good amount of folks do feel Cam and /or rap music in genral because it's "amusing" read: "ig'nant".
These are not the kind of people I consort with.
Saying that a given individual may not have heard of either of two artists doesn't establish much; it's a lot more meaningful to look at who has heard of, embraced and been influenced by each artist.
I'm not shocked to learn that Eightball & MJG's fanbase never really extended to the Bay, but that doesn't change the fact that they are foundation artists that inspired a whole generation of artists from the South that now pretty much run rap. [Archaic]And if you don't know about that that's really on you--it doesn't diminish them.[/Archaic]
Nobody that came to fame through Rawkus has ever achieved anything remotely comparable.
If it makes you feel better then, yes, I will say I see Cam'ron as an ignorant rapper. I see most people that champion drug dealing, turning women into pieces of meat, and risking your life over material items then bragging about it as ignorant.
I'm loving how you're so concerned about the impact that Cam's content has on the Black community, but deem a white mind such as your own sufficiently able to distinguish between right/wrong and entertainment/reality to own and safely enjoy his album.
"well yeah dog,,,I mean yeah Eightball & MJG wheren't really that big but...ummm...T.I. liked 'em !"
But who really fucking cares...
They were hugely popular... gold records with very little airplay. Just not apparently where you live.
If you feel that way, then perhaps you should stay out of them.
well, well. we have just come full circle.
i go out to objectify women and slang some rocks and this shit is a twelve pager.
if you don't like southern music. you're wrong and racist. embrace it.
p.s. Guzzo, i had the extreme pleasure of hearing your raps on tv, and now learning that you are on the west coast.. it does NOT surpise me that you bit your whole style from Project Blowed.
next topic.
I'm not talking about how black kids perceive this music, I'm talking on how white people (such as yourself) only seem to feel comfortable with the "shuck and jive" aspect of it
can you post the concious, soulful Trick Daddy tracks please?
the only worthy debate, imo, is whether people in the mainstream are actually listening to the lyrics of sh*t like laffy taffy and forming an opinion about anything at all. that would be a shame.
[Trick Daddy]
Here go one for, all these killings and all these conflicts in religion
See the Muslims, Jews and Christians but know they are all God's children
There's only, one him, plus ain't none of y'all confronting him
So blind in our own minds we wouldn't even know God if 'we was in front him'
And, I read your books know all your remixes to the Bible
What about a verse for the thugs, a cure for drugs and survival
Let's add some chapters nameed Martin, Malcolm and Farrakhan
In all my history books, only one died was the Americans
And, that's point of my, who's responsible for Vietnam
And, hold on there's more, we had two World Wars
And, how come the judges make more than the teachers is making
When they the ones raising all the taxes and got us fighting for education
Life is crazy ain't it
[Chorus]
So many tears, through out the years
Somebody tell me what's going on
And so many lives, but only God knows
About the pain deep inside
It gets so hard, you got to keep your head up
I know you're fed up, but stay strong
Here's a message from coast to coast
Cause when them thugs really need it the most, thug holiday
Allow me to clarify
"These talks on Soulstrut with dudes from the internet[/b] are retarded"